1. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    I'm going to warn everyone that this post is going to long winded, raw and downright offensive to some...if you are offended by profanity, or just me in general (and i know that applies to many of you in the community), maybe this is one you'd be better off avoiding. With that said...

    What the hell is up lately?

    This place used to be a pretty elite source of information. It had quality threads, it had a content filter that was very optimal (whether it was people or just members stepping in and stopping the trolling), and over all, it used to be a place where some legitimate discussion could be had without all the waste and garbage you'd find elsewhere.

    And now? This place is so full of that crap that it's hard to find anything worth reading or contributing to. I hate to think it was the mobile nations switch, and to me, that just seems like a really easy and convenient cop out to blame, really and truly, i think the community has become TOO open to a generalized "acceptance" of what is posted, what is considered relevant to a post, how much "trolling" is considered acceptable and just an unruliness that seems so blatant that i can't, for the life of me, understand how the community degraded to this.

    I mean for f*#ks sake, we have threads sitting RIGHT NEXT to a thread of the same topic, same EXACT subject matter, and it's done without any care or action...you look through the threads and you have people who post the absolute DUMBEST freakin' things. Are these completely inexcusable every time? Certainly not...we have people who are new to the community that just don't know any better, and they typically play nicely when something is explained to them or they're pointed in the right direction. We arnt talking about those people...

    And speaking of new comers...holy sh*t man, can you imagine going to a bank of information and having to trudge through the crap we have on her 99% of the time? If i had come here so many years ago and saw all that, it would have been an easy U-turn back to Mac Rumors or ModMyi...i wouldn't have even given it a chance, and that is a true shame because we have some pretty amazing people that make up this community, and while we may not always agree on everything, we have some great discussions, arguments, debates, etc (whatever you want to label it as). But lately...we have a TSUNAMI of horse sh*t that has hit the boards, it's so thick it makes this place look like a joke.

    Should i buy a red or a blue case for my iPhone? Followed by...Should i buy an iPhone and why does it suck worse than blah blah blah? Followed by...Can you tell me the difference between iPhone and "X" (multiply that by a thousand)...Followed by "What should i do about "X"? (again, multiplied by like a thousand).

    And those are just the start...that doesn't even include the trolling, the elitists from other sites coming here to tell us why their feature trumps the iPhone's offering and why.

    Then you have times where members will take the time to write up informative posts...invest some real effort and information to help others on the forums, but instead of using the threads and posts and answers optimally, they're shoved away into other parts of the forum where NOBODY VISITS. Look, there's organization and then there's just being anal for the sake of being anal. If it's relevant, make a wise decision instead of just a categorized move because a forum exists...half the forums on this website get ZERO traffic. Keep that in mind since so many seem bent on post count and quantity.

    Here's a thought...let's have some community pride and tell these people to F' off when they come here and try to dismantle the device and company the entire forum is dedicated to? Android Central and Crackberry are known for their no-nonsense approach to this kind of stuff, that's the reason you don't really see it there...they don't tolerate it, their members are prideful enough about their community to where they will nip that crap in the b*tt and it echoes to other trolls and idiots before they even come...here, it's almost like they have a welcome mat and a damn bouquet of roses waiting for them.

    WTF man?

    I remember when this forum was a more solid core...now it seems like a floundering case of identity confusion. An iPhone forum where the members allow people to come here and trash the product and when the few that do retort, they are met with "You're mean..." or "Get back on topic...". We might as well call this the mobile nations buffet forum, because I'll be damned if it's a supportive apple forum...70% of the threads we have here talk about how something sucks on the iPhone and people have been trained not to even begin to argue with it, or they'll be labeled a nuisance.

    Sorry for the vent...and again, there are some people here who make this place worth coming back to almost daily. In my opinion something needs to change, but i don't amount to much/any pull here so it may just come down to other people speaking up (because i know I'm not alone on this, and i know contributing members have left because of such).

    Quantity over quality NEVER works out. Never. Just sayin'. Cheers to those who actually make this place worth visiting during the day, even if we have our spats at times, you continue the life here...to the others, let's just hope you wise up or ship out, because you're ruining this community.

    I miss TiPb.
    kch50428 and BLiNK like this.
    08-07-2013 01:41 PM
  2. hydrogen3's Avatar
    I'm going to warn everyone that this post is going to long winded, raw and downright offensive to some...if you are offended by profanity, or just me in general (and i know that applies to many of you in the community), maybe this is one you'd be better off avoiding. With that said...

    What the hell is up lately?

    This place used to be a pretty elite source of information. It had quality threads, it had a content filter that was very optimal (whether it was people or just members stepping in and stopping the trolling), and over all, it used to be a place where some legitimate discussion could be had without all the waste and garbage you'd find elsewhere.

    And now? This place is so full of that crap that it's hard to find anything worth reading or contributing to. I hate to think it was the mobile nations switch, and to me, that just seems like a really easy and convenient cop out to blame, really and truly, i think the community has become TOO open to a generalized "acceptance" of what is posted, what is considered relevant to a post, how much "trolling" is considered acceptable and just an unruliness that seems so blatant that i can't, for the life of me, understand how the community degraded to this.

    I mean for f*#ks sake, we have threads sitting RIGHT NEXT to a thread of the same topic, same EXACT subject matter, and it's done without any care or action...you look through the threads and you have people who post the absolute DUMBEST freakin' things. Are these completely inexcusable every time? Certainly not...we have people who are new to the community that just don't know any better, and they typically play nicely when something is explained to them or they're pointed in the right direction. We arnt talking about those people...

    And speaking of new comers...holy sh*t man, can you imagine going to a bank of information and having to trudge through the crap we have on her 99% of the time? If i had come here so many years ago and saw all that, it would have been an easy U-turn back to Mac Rumors or ModMyi...i wouldn't have even given it a chance, and that is a true shame because we have some pretty amazing people that make up this community, and while we may not always agree on everything, we have some great discussions, arguments, debates, etc (whatever you want to label it as). But lately...we have a TSUNAMI of horse sh*t that has hit the boards, it's so thick it makes this place look like a joke.

    Should i buy a red or a blue case for my iPhone? Followed by...Should i buy an iPhone and why does it suck worse than blah blah blah? Followed by...Can you tell me the difference between iPhone and "X" (multiply that by a thousand)...Followed by "What should i do about "X"? (again, multiplied by like a thousand).

    And those are just the start...that doesn't even include the trolling, the elitists from other sites coming here to tell us why their feature trumps the iPhone's offering and why.

    Then you have times where members will take the time to write up informative posts...invest some real effort and information to help others on the forums, but instead of using the threads and posts and answers optimally, they're shoved away into other parts of the forum where NOBODY VISITS. Look, there's organization and then there's just being anal for the sake of being anal. If it's relevant, make a wise decision instead of just a categorized move because a forum exists...half the forums on this website get ZERO traffic. Keep that in mind since so many seem bent on post count and quantity.

    Here's a thought...let's have some community pride and tell these people to F' off when they come here and try to dismantle the device and company the entire forum is dedicated to? Android Central and Crackberry are known for their no-nonsense approach to this kind of stuff, that's the reason you don't really see it there...they don't tolerate it, their members are prideful enough about their community to where they will nip that crap in the b*tt and it echoes to other trolls and idiots before they even come...here, it's almost like they have a welcome mat and a damn bouquet of roses waiting for them.

    WTF man?

    I remember when this forum was a more solid core...now it seems like a floundering case of identity confusion. An iPhone forum where the members allow people to come here and trash the product and when the few that do retort, they are met with "You're mean..." or "Get back on topic...". We might as well call this the mobile nations buffet forum, because I'll be damned if it's a supportive apple forum...70% of the threads we have here talk about how something sucks on the iPhone and people have been trained not to even begin to argue with it, or they'll be labeled a nuisance.

    Sorry for the vent...and again, there are some people here who make this place worth coming back to almost daily. In my opinion something needs to change, but i don't amount to much/any pull here so it may just come down to other people speaking up (because i know I'm not alone on this, and i know contributing members have left because of such).

    Quantity over quality NEVER works out. Never. Just sayin'. Cheers to those who actually make this place worth visiting during the day, even if we have our spats at times, you continue the life here...to the others, let's just hope you wise up or ship out, because you're ruining this community.

    I miss TiPb.

    What does all this mean? Exactly!
    08-07-2013 01:50 PM
  3. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    I want to add to this too...the moderation staff i feel does a tremendous job, and has the unfortunate responsibility of balancing common sense with board neutrality, and i know that has to be tough sometimes when you just want to come down with the ban hammer. Props to you guys for working diligently to try and keep the place as clean as you can.
    kch50428, Eileen89, Alli and 1 others like this.
    08-07-2013 01:59 PM
  4. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    What does all this mean? Exactly!
    I guess i could add a TL;DR right here...soooo...

    TL;DR - Sunshine, puppy dogs and rainbows.
    08-07-2013 02:00 PM
  5. hydrogen3's Avatar
    идиот
    08-07-2013 02:05 PM
  6. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Those who know me know that I speak my mind, but I try to it respectfully. Sometimes, I fail. Having said that, Sean has every right to speak what he just posted in this thread and I have come to learn that if one person feels that way then at least 10 others do as well. I am old school and therefore I appreciate "straight talk". You may not like what Sean stated or you may not even like him, but you'd be hard pressed to find his opinion completely false. I don't know the man personally, but I appreciate his knowledge, humor and no-nonsense approach, and if we are to be a community like we strive so hard to be then accept the fact that there are voices / opinions other than your own and their voices & opinions deserve to be heard like everyone else's. As a moderator, I have to try to balance it all. Some people are more sensitive than others and it often calls for me to have to make a judgement call. As an Ambassador, I am to be personable, helpful and welcoming, but sometimes I'd like to speak things in the same manner and tone as Sean, and I'm just being real here. With that in mind, let's be the community with various opinions, but appreciative of each other and especially of the Apple products we adore so much. Thank you.
    Last edited by JustMe'D; 08-07-2013 at 03:35 PM.
    taz323 likes this.
    08-07-2013 02:42 PM
  7. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Those who know me know that I speak my mind, but I try to it respectfully. Sometimes, I fail. Having said that, Sean has every right to speak what he just posted in this thread and I have come to learn that of one person feels that way then at least 10 others do as well. I am old school and therefore I appreciate "straight talk". You may not like what Sean stated or you may not even like him, but you'd be hard pressed to find his opinion completely false. I don't know the man personally, but I appreciate his knowledge, humor and no-nonsense approach, and if we are to be a community like we strive so hard to be then accept the fact that there are voices / opinions other than your own and their voices & opinions deserve to be heard like everyone else's. As a moderator, I have to try to balance it all. Some people are more sensitive than others and it often calls for me to have to make a judgement call. As an Ambassador, I am to be personable, helpful and welcoming, but sometimes I'd like to speak things in the same manner and tone as Sean, and I'm just being real here. With that in mind, let's be the community with various opinions, but appreciative of each other and especially of the Apple products we adore so much. Thank you.
    You're probably one of the most easy going, but truthful people on this forum...attacking situations with dignity and respect not found in many people, and let me be one to tell you personally that i find it noble and admirable, I also thank you for what you do here, because i know it has to be legitimate work at times.

    You know, of all that venting above, i think my main point was really just that it would be so awesome to see a community with some pride in the product, respect enough for the community to help the moderators by guard dogging the forums from the vermin that comes here all the time, and a group of members who have the forums best interest in mind. I don't feel we have that, i feel we have an open door policy to anyone and everyone that comes here, regardless of their intent, and that too many chances and too much acceptance is given.
    Just_Me_D likes this.
    08-07-2013 03:04 PM
  8. Ipheuria's Avatar
    It's weird reading through this thread because I feel like I must have blinders on. I have been here for a very long time, not as long as some others but long enough. I love it here I've been helped and I've tried to contribute where I can. I do find that people come here and talk about their platform and how great it is and how bad certain things are on iOS. When I see that I think it reflects poorly on the other person because I can talk about iOS in a positive way without making other platforms look bad. The thing for me is that forums are to promote discussion, arguments, opinions and some times there wont be a resolution because it's just one of those topics where there is no ending. The information inside the thread though is great because other people who might have those same thoughts and opinions will find it and also see the other side from the replies. Sure there must be threads that don't really add any value but I usually try to go into most areas of the site although I know I haven't been in the JB forums in forever. So maybe I'm just not seeing the threads or I'm just not reading them like everyone else is. I do have pride in owning Apple gear, I will tell anyone that iOS will always be my choice until they stop selling the iPhone. At the same time I love tech and I love devices so I do wish people would stop hating on other platforms. However like wishes for peace at christmas time that will probably never happen. So I just share what I know and try to make others use of iOS devices worthwhile and fun.
    08-07-2013 03:44 PM
  9. Alli's Avatar
    Gotta agree with most of what Sean said. However, Ren recently stated in another thread that closing a thread is failure. That is the opinion of the powers that be, so even if we have 12 threads in a row asking how to sync to iCloud, they will all remain open. It gets better SEO rankings that way for some reason. I don't know. I just lurk work here.

    Best bet is to point these people to an existing thread and move on. If you see someone else has already done that - great. The biggest problems seem to come from the 4, 5, or 6 people who have to make comments on starting a duplicate thread instead of just moving on. Sometimes we have a hard time just letting go.

    You don't have to answer every thread. Heck, that's what JustMe'D is for! (Thanks, and enjoy the rest of your day.) We started the Ambassador program so that we have zero unanswered threads. But nobody else needs to feel compelled to post just for the sake of posting. If you can help - excellent! I'm still learning new things.

    Before this turns into a rant of my own....remember, this is a COMMUNITY forum, and the users are the heart of that community. We want you to feel comfortable in what you write, and if some people aren't comfortable reading what you write - they can move on as well. We will never all agree on anything.
    Ipheuria and Eileen89 like this.
    08-07-2013 04:40 PM
  10. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    I can appreciate the fact that not every thread needs an answer, and moving on past the BS is pretty much the best way to keep it at bay (when it's allowed to exist), and i can admit that it's tough for me to look at these threads and just turn the other cheek...i guess it's just my character and attitude itself, i feel like i need to say something (and I catch myself all the time posting something and then deleting it before i hit submit for the sake of refraining from pointless arguing).

    ipheuria, i don't think you have blinders on, i think you just have a different approach, and as an ambassador, you kind of fit the role of welcome first, then see what the person has to offer...I don't fit there well, and tend to be more of them "what do you have to offer the community?" first and then see what comes of it, and it may strike as being brash to some, but in both cases, it's just a different approach. You're not doing anything wrong by not seeing it, it's just not presented to you because of your own approach.

    I love gadgets and technology and electronics...i can't get enough of reading about them, talking about them and seeing whats new. What I absolutely hate though is coming to a community i feel in tune with, and talking about a device that the forum is MADE for, and feeling like everything i say is going to be met with "Fanboy" or "blah blah blah is better"...i don't come here to read how someone thinks the _____ model phone is better than the iPhone and why, i don't care! What i do care about is being able to talk about a love for this device, the features and the development and the future...the company that makes it and what they have in store. I don't need to come to OUR community and read some dimwit telling us that the iPhone is boring, seeing 10 threads asking why people still like the iPhone...it does nothing for anyone here, but that seems to be the influx lately. It really sucks.
    Ipheuria and kch50428 like this.
    08-07-2013 05:34 PM
  11. Eileen89's Avatar
    You're probably one of the most easy going, but truthful people on this forum...attacking situations with dignity and respect not found in many people, and let me be one to tell you personally that i find it noble and admirable, I also thank you for what you do here, because i know it has to be legitimate work at times.

    You know, of all that venting above, i think my main point was really just that it would be so awesome to see a community with some pride in the product, respect enough for the community to help the moderators by guard dogging the forums from the vermin that comes here all the time, and a group of members who have the forums best interest in mind. I don't feel we have that, i feel we have an open door policy to anyone and everyone that comes here, regardless of their intent, and that too many chances and too much acceptance is given.
    Hey Sean, I think it's great that you posted how you felt and respect it as well. Moderators have forum policy guidelines that have to be followed which is why a certain thread that was closed was reopened again. I believe a forum is like one big baseball field. On one team you have the Mods, and regular forum members . On the other team you have your Trolls, spammers, and what I'd like to call forum splitters. This team scores as many points as they can by making posts as well as new threads that they know will upset the healthy balance of the forum. As the members of team iMore it is our job as Mods and members of this nice community to pull together as a team and not let the other team score. We can do this by ignoring posts or threads that we know darn well were only posted to get under the skin of others, report threads that we feel are a duplicate of an already ongoing discussion, and while I can't do this as a Mod but members can; walk away from the thread altogether. I would think that the other team would eventually get the hint that those types of actions won't ruin this forum and will either go elsewhere or change their behavior altogether.... IDK, maybe I've been watching too much baseball these days, but hey, I really do think iMore has a winning team here and we can all work together to keep this community awesome as I have always known it to be.

    2
    taz323 likes this.
    08-07-2013 05:37 PM
  12. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Your analogy was awesome, and it's pretty much what I expected you guys went through day to day. I just think that the days of reporting and ignoring have kind of passed...proactive approaches to people who come here (your description of "forum splitters" is perfect, because that is exactly what they are). I mean i post in several communities, and this one has the softest approach to this...and by no means do i say you're making the right or wrong choice in that, but it is a soft approach (from an outsiders observational view).

    Reporting and ignoring works to an extent, but when the forum members who are regular enough to have high post counts just go about their business amongst the muck, people start challenging with more of it, and it becomes suffocating (to me anyways). Someone comes here and starts questioning the reason why people (ON A DAMN iPHONE FORUM) like the iPhone and start dismantling WHY they do, i mean for god's sake, it's so common it's pitiful sometimes.

    I guess I associate this approach with the modern approach to bullying...I was raised in a world of "dog eat dog", and you had to fight to survive (literally and figuratively). Now people want a more passive approach to make everyone feel accomplished and welcome. I still haven't accepted it yet i guess...
    Eileen89 likes this.
    08-07-2013 05:49 PM
  13. BLiNK's Avatar
    don't ******* leave me alone here with these people, Sean.

    (will leave a more intelligent comment another time, i've been drinking)
    hydrogen3 and Ipheuria like this.
    08-08-2013 12:10 AM
  14. ctt1wbw's Avatar
    It's weird reading through this thread because I feel like I must have blinders on. I have been here for a very long time, not as long as some others but long enough. I love it here I've been helped and I've tried to contribute where I can. I do find that people come here and talk about their platform and how great it is and how bad certain things are on iOS. When I see that I think it reflects poorly on the other person because I can talk about iOS in a positive way without making other platforms look bad. The thing for me is that forums are to promote discussion, arguments, opinions and some times there wont be a resolution because it's just one of those topics where there is no ending. The information inside the thread though is great because other people who might have those same thoughts and opinions will find it and also see the other side from the replies. Sure there must be threads that don't really add any value but I usually try to go into most areas of the site although I know I haven't been in the JB forums in forever. So maybe I'm just not seeing the threads or I'm just not reading them like everyone else is. I do have pride in owning Apple gear, I will tell anyone that iOS will always be my choice until they stop selling the iPhone. At the same time I love tech and I love devices so I do wish people would stop hating on other platforms. However like wishes for peace at christmas time that will probably never happen. So I just share what I know and try to make others use of iOS devices worthwhile and fun.
    I'm the opposite way. I've owned everything except a webOS phone, so I have a very good understanding of how other smartphone OSs work. What riles me most is Android fanboys, almost to a person who've never used or owned Apple products, they just hate everything Apple. You can spot them a mile away. They use words like "toy", iTard, sheep, walled garden, stupid crap like that. Those are uneducated, ignorant morons who don't talk about anything except trashing Apple. When I point out things on iOS and the iPhone, I directly relate it to Android. So I can't help making Android look bad because I used to have a Samsung Galaxy and a Nexus 7.
    Ipheuria likes this.
    08-08-2013 04:56 AM
  15. ctt1wbw's Avatar
    Gotta agree with most of what Sean said. However, Ren recently stated in another thread that closing a thread is failure. That is the opinion of the powers that be, so even if we have 12 threads in a row asking how to sync to iCloud, they will all remain open. It gets better SEO rankings that way for some reason. I don't know. I just lurk work here.

    Best bet is to point these people to an existing thread and move on. If you see someone else has already done that - great. The biggest problems seem to come from the 4, 5, or 6 people who have to make comments on starting a duplicate thread instead of just moving on. Sometimes we have a hard time just letting go.

    You don't have to answer every thread. Heck, that's what JustMe'D is for! (Thanks, and enjoy the rest of your day.) We started the Ambassador program so that we have zero unanswered threads. But nobody else needs to feel compelled to post just for the sake of posting. If you can help - excellent! I'm still learning new things.

    Before this turns into a rant of my own....remember, this is a COMMUNITY forum, and the users are the heart of that community. We want you to feel comfortable in what you write, and if some people aren't comfortable reading what you write - they can move on as well. We will never all agree on anything.
    I love this. Most other forums will close a thread for no reason at all.
    08-08-2013 04:57 AM
  16. Ipheuria's Avatar
    Honestly I feel the exact same way my friend. I write for my own tech blog and I have often times felt like writing a post "Why is it now cool to be on Androids jock" I changed the wording to keep it a little more friendly but my initial title involved sucking an apendage instead of the bolded part. I feel the same way when I read other people saying how iOS sucks and x,y,z is better. I understand threads that just present other phones and what are good about them because it's information. Those threads are totally different but I have come to realize that responding to the iOS sucks and x,y,z is better is pointless becasue those people are never going to be reasonable and take your argument into account nevermind seeing things your way. It's like beating your head against a brick wall. I will respond with information about why I think iOS is great in reply to the thread becasue someone else reading might take the information in and not be sandbagged by the other point of view. However I have no time to go back and forth with someone arguing about which platform is better. I do see your point and agree with you for sure tho.


    I love gadgets and technology and electronics...i can't get enough of reading about them, talking about them and seeing whats new. What I absolutely hate though is coming to a community i feel in tune with, and talking about a device that the forum is MADE for, and feeling like everything i say is going to be met with "Fanboy" or "blah blah blah is better"...i don't come here to read how someone thinks the _____ model phone is better than the iPhone and why, i don't care! What i do care about is being able to talk about a love for this device, the features and the development and the future...the company that makes it and what they have in store. I don't need to come to OUR community and read some dimwit telling us that the iPhone is boring, seeing 10 threads asking why people still like the iPhone...it does nothing for anyone here, but that seems to be the influx lately. It really sucks.
    08-08-2013 08:38 AM
  17. hydrogen3's Avatar
    I love this. Most other forums will close a thread for no reason at all.
    This thread offends me!! close it lease!!
    08-08-2013 12:33 PM

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