1. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Has anyone brought up the fact that this is NOT the Confederate flag? It's a battle flag, which I think started in Tennessee. It's not even the official flag flown by the CSA.
    Did you bother to read the title of this thread? Because I don't think you did...

    And it was first used by the Army of Northern Virginia if you want technical accuracy...and then used throughout the confederacy on the battle field in all confederate states.
    07-05-2015 10:15 PM
  2. ctt1wbw's Avatar
    Jeez, sooo-ree.
    07-06-2015 07:03 AM
  3. ctt1wbw's Avatar
    That's fair, however that doesn't negate my argument on slavery "not being that bad in America". Especially considering there's plenty of evidence stating otherwise (heck HBO had a documentary years ago on former slaves that were interviewed post slavery that talked about how horrible things were). Post slavery blacks were still getting lynched, raped, businesses destroyed, harassed, for no reason other than being black. I really wish our education system would shine more light on atrocities committed on this land.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Kinda like in Chicago, Baltimore, Memphis, Compton, The Pork and Beans...
    07-06-2015 07:07 AM
  4. mmcfly23's Avatar
    Kinda like in Chicago, Baltimore, Memphis, Compton, The Pork and Beans...
    Huh


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    07-06-2015 07:23 AM
  5. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    I really wish our education system would shine more light on atrocities committed on this land.
    There are a lot of things that children are shielded from in terms of historic atrocities...unfortunately, man kind has a pretty overwhelmingly negative track record when it comes to history, so to be fair, if you wanted the "education system" to be fair about what it teaches our youth, you'd have to accept that they'd probably only have time to learn about the negative aspects of our societies history, since there was so damn much of it.

    I think if people really understood just how encompassing and spectrum wide slavery actually was, society would probably be far more inclined to move away from victimization and/or elitism and would figure out that at a base line, our ancestors pretty much all faced these kinds of atrocities at some point, yielding a common goal instead of a segregated type of scenario we have today.
    07-06-2015 11:03 AM
  6. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    It's the flag of an enemy nation at best.
    I think it's more a flag of treason. South wanted to secede (treason), formed the Confederacy (treason), and that flag represented the Confederacy (treason).

    As far as the question Sean pointed out goes, am I offended by it? No. But I absolutely can understand why people are offended by it. But you're not going to hide this from our history. I'm just a guy born and raised in Southern California, though. Considering that this is just a flag, I don't think I have any right to say whether or not a state should fly it over a government building because I AM NOT A CITIZEN OF THAT STATE. Let the people of each individual state decide that.

    That !diot that committed those murders would have done so whether the Confederate flag existed or not. Typical racist 'neck like Sean pointed out in his OP. The symbol of a flag isn't going to prevent people like that. And I don't think much can change it. I'm cynical like that. You can't change people's family traditions and values and how they raise their kids. I've heard of southerners who still re-enact Civil War battles in their backyards wearing their ancestors Confederate uniforms.

    When our generation and the generation after that is dead, that's when there will start to be a difference. The history of this country is still very young.
    07-06-2015 03:26 PM
  7. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    We can thank those treasonous people for the country we love today...from the get go.
    07-06-2015 05:48 PM
  8. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    We can thank them for the popularity NASCAR, as well. So I'll take the good with the bad.
    Les74 likes this.
    07-06-2015 06:06 PM
  9. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    And this
    Les74 likes this.
    07-06-2015 06:25 PM
  10. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Easily washed by these things...


    BreakingKayfabe likes this.
    07-06-2015 10:01 PM
  11. iOS Gravity's Avatar
    Ask yourself, "Should the German government fly flags with swastikas just because it's 'part of their history'?"
    07-06-2015 10:18 PM
  12. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Ask yourself, "Should the German government fly flags with swastikas just because it's 'part of their history'?"
    Totally different situation that has already been discussed. You gotta do better than that man...not to mention the swastika has been an iconic shape for thousands of years...long before the nazis decided to use it on their flag. The swastika itself, I feel, is wrongfully assigned as a purely evil shape because of what nazis did in it's shadow.
    07-06-2015 10:57 PM
  13. iOS Gravity's Avatar
    Totally different situation that has already been discussed. You gotta do better than that man...not to mention the swastika has been an iconic shape for thousands of years...long before the nazis decided to use it on their flag. The swastika itself, I feel, is wrongfully assigned as a purely evil shape because of what nazis did in it's shadow.
    I know. Religions in certain countries are represented by swastikas. The same thing is being done with the confederate flag. It was just a flag for a separatist country. People now are using it to symbolize their evil deeds.
    07-07-2015 03:08 PM
  14. iOS Gravity's Avatar
    I know. Religions in certain countries are represented by swastikas. The same thing is being done with the confederate flag. It was just a flag for a separatist country. People now are using it to symbolize their evil deeds.
    I guess it's the way that people choose to use these symbols that affects the way others interpret it. But the swastika or the confederate flag shouldn't be flown by a government entity in this type of situation. I'm not sure if I'm using the correct wording in this situation.
    freediverx likes this.
    07-07-2015 03:29 PM
  15. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    I know. Religions in certain countries are represented by swastikas. The same thing is being done with the confederate flag. It was just a flag for a separatist country. People now are using it to symbolize their evil deeds.
    It was definitely NOT "just a flag for a separatist country"...and people use all kinds of things to symbolize evil deeds.
    07-07-2015 04:19 PM
  16. freediverx's Avatar
    We shouldn't hide this flag. We need to remember the past for all the mistakes that were made that led to it (including some of the very valid criticisms the South had with the North that didnt involve "dey're taekin mai free laborz")
    There's a difference between displaying the flag in a book, museum or some other historical context and flying it to announce your "southern pride" or above a government building. The latter, regardless of intent, signals a defiant pride in the twisted values the flag has always represented. It's a big "F.U." to the country as if to say, "You may have won the war, but you're not going to change our culture or our belief in what we fought for." It's a troubling everyday reminder of the many atrocities that have been committed for a century and a half against African Americans and those who fought to defend them.
    MightyHollywood likes this.
    07-09-2015 05:46 AM
  17. freediverx's Avatar
    Totally different situation that has already been discussed. You gotta do better than that man...not to mention the swastika has been an iconic shape for thousands of years...long before the nazis decided to use it on their flag. The swastika itself, I feel, is wrongfully assigned as a purely evil shape because of what nazis did in it's shadow.
    It's all about context.

    A swastika displayed in an eastern culture where it's readily recognized as a Hindu, Buddhist, or Jainist religious symbol is inoffensive and entirely appropriate. The only ones who might take offense in this environment would be Western tourists ignorant as to its local meaning. It should also be pointed out that while the basic swastika shape may be somewhat consistent, eastern cultures stylized it in an entirely different way than the Nazis.

    A swastika displayed in the US is an entirely different matter. Unless it happens to be inside some Hindu or Buddhist temple or similar, it's meaning is quite clearly offensive and indicative of sociopathic intent.
    iOS Gravity likes this.
    07-09-2015 06:03 AM
  18. kilofoxtrot's Avatar
    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    Attached Thumbnails The Confederate Battle Flag...-imageuploadedbytapatalkhd1436449823.158815.jpg  
    07-09-2015 09:50 AM
  19. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    There's a difference between displaying the flag in a book, museum or some other historical context and flying it to announce your "southern pride" or above a government building. The latter, regardless of intent, signals a defiant pride in the twisted values the flag has always represented. It's a big "F.U." to the country as if to say, "You may have won the war, but you're not going to change our culture or our belief in what we fought for." It's a troubling everyday reminder of the many atrocities that have been committed for a century and a half against African Americans and those who fought to defend them.
    Bullcrap! The Confederate flag does not evoke any emotion within 'me' whatsoever. It's doesn't remind me of anything or anyone so for you to say that "it's a troubling everyday reminder of the many atrocities that have been committed for a century and a half against...." is a bunch of crock, with the exception of how 'you' may feel about it. This black man isn't affected at all by it. I have come to terms with our nation's past, as well as life itself. I understand that evil exists and can sometimes cause good people to do bad things, as well as cause bad people to continue doing bad things. Trying to bury the past will only encourage others to dig it up because we all seek the truth even if we end up rejecting it. Okay, I'm done venting....
    blackmagicwoman likes this.
    07-09-2015 10:24 AM
  20. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    There's a difference between displaying the flag in a book, museum or some other historical context and flying it to announce your "southern pride" or above a government building. The latter, regardless of intent, signals a defiant pride in the twisted values the flag has always represented. It's a big "F.U." to the country as if to say, "You may have won the war, but you're not going to change our culture or our belief in what we fought for." It's a troubling everyday reminder of the many atrocities that have been committed for a century and a half against African Americans and those who fought to defend them.
    But you continue to look at this by picking and choosing what you want it to represent, instead of as a whole...similarly to the way people who are against this flag are fully supportive of the US flag. Atrocities were done under both banners...and progression was had under both banners.

    It's all about context.

    A swastika displayed in an eastern culture where it's readily recognized as a Hindu, Buddhist, or Jainist religious symbol is inoffensive and entirely appropriate. The only ones who might take offense in this environment would be Western tourists ignorant as to its local meaning. It should also be pointed out that while the basic swastika shape may be somewhat consistent, eastern cultures stylized it in an entirely different way than the Nazis.

    A swastika displayed in the US is an entirely different matter. Unless it happens to be inside some Hindu or Buddhist temple or similar, it's meaning is quite clearly offensive and indicative of sociopathic intent.
    That is a dangerous assumption. Hypothetically, what if you came into my house and I had a swastika somewhere in my home...you would assume I am sociopathic and represent the evil you've assigned to the icon. But what if I am a practicing hindu or buddhist? You might not know my interest or investment in it...but because you have an assumptive approach to it, you'd assume the worse, and would misrepresent me as a person of bigotry and "evil"...when it is nothing of the sort.

    The same can be said about the confederate flag (and battle flag)...do many people represent it in an evil manner? Absolutely. Do many people present it to others as a symbol of hatred, bigotry and intolerance? No doubt. But you can't assume that is why it exists in every situation...you can't assign that kind of assumptive approach to every person who flies it because in doing so, you're being prejudice yourself.

    Would you tell this guy that he's a racist and bigot because he's proudly flying the flag? He was a former chapter president in the NAACP, civil rights leader and activist...and defender of the flag.

    The Confederate Battle Flag...-h-k-_edgerton.jpg
    Just_Me_D likes this.
    07-09-2015 10:27 AM
  21. kilofoxtrot's Avatar
    People are mixing the right to fly the flag personally and a government entity flying the flag.

    Two different issues IMO.
    07-09-2015 10:55 AM
  22. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    People are mixing the right to fly the flag personally and a government entity flying the flag.

    Two different issues IMO.
    No. Certain people, not necessarily in this thread, are demanding that the Confederate flag be removed altogether. Some states have or are in the process of removing confederate license plates. The problem I have is not the actual removal of the flag, as long as each State allows for the people's vote to decide, but with certain people wanting it removed after the SC incident, as if the flag had something to do with it. Furthermore, prior to that incident, the flag was a non-issue.
    07-09-2015 11:02 AM
  23. kilofoxtrot's Avatar
    No. Certain people, not necessarily in this thread, are demanding that the Confederate flag be removed altogether.
    Altogether? As in private and government buildings?
    07-09-2015 12:13 PM
  24. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Altogether? As in private and government buildings?
    Yes sir.
    07-09-2015 12:14 PM
  25. diggity's Avatar
    No. Certain people, not necessarily in this thread, are demanding that the Confederate flag be removed altogether. Some states have or are in the process of removing confederate license plates. The problem I have is not the actual removal of the flag, as long as each State allows for the people's vote to decide, but with certain people wanting it removed after the SC incident, as if the flag had something to do with it. Furthermore, prior to that incident, the flag was a non-issue.
    Not exactly correct. The confederate flag flying on state property in many southern states has been a frequent debate topic for years. It comes up about as often as the debate over the Redskins. I think the reason why it has been a particular sore spot for many in SC is because this particular flag was raised in the 60s during the civil rights movement. During this time, many SC politicians were rallying against desegregation. Many people believe it was raised to show defiance against the U.S. Government over desegregation.
    MightyHollywood likes this.
    07-09-2015 12:17 PM
141 12345 ...

Similar Threads

  1. Is the juice pack plus coming to the iPhone 6 plus
    By iMore Question in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-03-2015, 12:09 PM
  2. 4th of July Sale: 20% off all accessories at the iMore Store
    By iMore.com in forum iMore.com News Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-03-2015, 09:51 AM
  3. The Secret Of Crystal Waters - Point & Tap Adventure! OUT NOW!
    By M9 Games in forum iPhone Apps & Games
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-03-2015, 09:39 AM
  4. Why is the audio record feature of my iPad not working?
    By iMore Question in forum Apple Hardware
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-03-2015, 08:51 AM
  5. Five hidden shortcuts in the new Music app you need to know!
    By iMore.com in forum iMore.com News Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-03-2015, 08:30 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD