1. marcol's Avatar
    Thanks for that. It explains a lot, although I must confess I can't find any reference in the software I have (TomTom Navigator 6) or the licence that comes with it to only operating when a vehicle is parked. Could be because it's not a US version?
    06-11-2008 03:11 PM
  2. marcol's Avatar
    Update on TomTom from Darren Griffin, Editor of PocketGPSWorld.com, who has good contacts with the company:

    And the official response from TomTom is:

    We have made our software run on the iPhone as the reports have mentioned; it looks great and works very well. However there are currently no announcements yet, or a plan to create an announcement regarding navigation software for the iPhone. This means from our side there is no information on if or when this will be available.
    http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/module...r=asc&start=15

    Possible translation: 'We've made it work, we want to sell it through the app store, but Apple haven't told us if we can yet'.
    Last edited by marcol; 06-13-2008 at 06:05 AM.
    06-13-2008 05:51 AM
  3. marcol's Avatar
    More:

    TomTom has in fact produced real-time navigation software for the iPhone, according to one of the company's French representatives. Yann Lafargue denies allegations from other sources, which first said that Apple's SDK license forbids real-time navigation, and then that TomTom itself had no internal prototypes. "Since the SDK became available," Lafargue observes, "some of our engineers tried to put Navigator on the iPhone. And the first tests showed that it worked well for the most part."

    Regarding the SDK, Lafargue believes that Apple does not have the intention of blocking third-party companies from competing in iPhone navigation. The company "must simply try to protect itself," he says, "in the case a client encounters a problem with his iPhone and a navigation application [and] has the intention of attacking them."

It is still said to be unknown, however, whether TomTom will actually be able to sell its software for the iPhone. "On this point, it's still too early to suggest this," Lafargue comments. "What's sure is that we have a solution for which experiments proved conclusive. Now it's a matter of seeing in which manner we can launch it. We couldn't for example finalize a product only to be blocked from the App Store because Apple decided to make its own program, or to favor one from its partners.

"In general, Apple has to date worked mostly with Americans rather than Europeans, which inspires caution," he says.
    http://www.macnn.com/articles/08/06/...hone.software/

    I hope Apple do the decent thing.
    06-13-2008 11:45 AM
  4. whmurray's Avatar
    Thanks for that. It explains a lot, although I must confess I can't find any reference in the software I have (TomTom Navigator 6) or the licence that comes with it to only operating when a vehicle is parked. Could be because it's not a US version?
    The first screen that I see when starting TomTom is the logo splash screen. This screen is replaced after about two seconds with one labeled "legal notice." To use the software I must press the "agree" button to this notice. The notice ends with the following: "Do not operate this product while driving, park the vehicle first."

    In order to "agree" to these terms, I must interpret them as meaning that I can allow the device to tell me things while operating the vehicle but that I must park the vehicle to tell the device anything. However, a scrupulous reading might conclude that one could not even have the device turned on while driving.

    Your observation that mine is the US version is correct. TomTom may believe that the litigious nature of the American culture makes such a disclaimer necessary here while not in Europe.

    Note that TomTom does not assume that the language in the SDK license is intended to prevent them from offering a navigation product. Rather they seem to interpret it to be intended to limit Apple's liability.
    06-13-2008 12:38 PM
  5. marcol's Avatar
    The first screen that I see when starting TomTom is the logo splash screen. This screen is replaced after about two seconds with one labeled "legal notice." To use the software I must press the "agree" button to this notice. The notice ends with the following: "Do not operate this product while driving, park the vehicle first."

    In order to "agree" to these terms, I must interpret them as meaning that I can allow the device to tell me things while operating the vehicle but that I must park the vehicle to tell the device anything. However, a scrupulous reading might conclude that one could not even have the device turned on while driving.
    Yep, none such on the UK version I have.

    Note that TomTom does not assume that the language in the SDK license is intended to prevent them from offering a navigation product. Rather they seem to interpret it to be intended to limit Apple's liability.
    Good call on that!

    TomTom pretty clearly want to put the app on the iPhone and what Apple do about this might tell us a bit about how they see the platform developing. Back in the March SDK event Steve Jobs said App Store limitations would be confined to specific categories. I can't remember them all off the top of my head, but things like pornography, malicious apps, bandwidth hogs, etc. It all seemed fairly reasonable at the time and I am still hopeful that those are the extent of the limitations. Apart from anything else, they get a 30% cut and nav apps are probably some of the few that could be both high price and high volume.
    06-14-2008 03:55 AM
  6. whmurray's Avatar
    ............Apart from anything else, they get a 30% cut and nav apps are probably some of the few that could be both high price and high volume.
    I remember when IBM made a big commitment to Dallas. They liked the fact that it was easy to make things happen in Dallas; a handshake was usually enough. Then the IBM lawyers came to put the good intentions on paper and screwed everything up. I do not judge an enterprise by the words that their lawyers put in the contract but in how the enterprise enforces them.

    Apple is creating a new business model. They will make some mistakes. But they are in it for the long haul. They like themselves, perhaps a little much, and they want to be proud of their work. They want us to be proud of their work.

    I will always remember the experience of buying my iPhone. The store was beautiful, the young people were beautiful, pleasant, and competent; the product was beautiful, and even the packaging was classy.

    There seems to be something in the American psyche that is suspicious of success. Most of it is earned and deserved.

    I expect to be pleased.
    Last edited by whmurray; 06-14-2008 at 09:46 AM.
    06-14-2008 06:55 AM
  7. xintelinsanex's Avatar
    I'd like to see the weather widget tie into GPS, so when you start it, it gives the weather based on your current location.
    That would be really cool. You could know the current weather no matter where you are, even if you don't know exactly where you are.
    06-14-2008 10:05 AM
  8. marcol's Avatar
    I expect to be pleased.
    I don't want to give the wrong impression, I expect good things too. I'd be even more pleased though with a decent sat nav app.
    06-14-2008 06:20 PM
  9. xintelinsanex's Avatar
    Yup, the current GPS capabilities is nice on the iPhone, but what good is it if you can't really navigate anywhere. If Apple is developing their own nav app, that would be great, if not, I hope Apple opens it up so other companies can do it (e.g. TomTom).
    06-14-2008 09:53 PM
  10. whmurray's Avatar
    Yup, the current GPS capabilities is nice on the iPhone, but what good is it if you can't really navigate anywhere. If Apple is developing their own nav app, that would be great, if not, I hope Apple opens it up so other companies can do it (e.g. TomTom).
    Part of "open is choice." I used Mapopolis on my Treo for years because their support people were so good. I changed to TomTom because I liked the interface better. I found over time that their support was not as good as Mapopolis but that their product was a little more stable. These were fairly expensive applications but they added great value to my Treo. They were not even the only choices; there were at least two more that I never looked at.

    I expect that Google Maps on the iPhone 3G will take advantage of the GPS to initialize Google Directions. The iPhone will get the advantage of Google's huge database of points of interest. I have noticed that Google Maps on the current iPhone transmits some traffic information. There may even be something that approaches turn-by-turn directions, advertising supported, and otherwise free. That will be a good choice for many.

    I do not want to rely on a navigation system that requires not only visibility of the satellites but also access to the Internet. Even AT&T EDGE, much less 3G, does not cover every place I may want to drive. I do not want to rely on a system for identifying my destination that requires that I use a keyboard rather than menus. Using a laptop with a mouse and a full key-board, Google is a great solution for locating destinations; it is not easy to use from an iPhone. I want other choices and I am prepared to pay for them. I want "favorites," "recent destinations," context-sensitive and location-sensitive menus. I may even want voice commands like the top-of-the-line integrated solution now have.

    While some of those choices will enrich some of Apple's partners at the expense of others, all will enrich Apple. "Open" means choice. The market, not Apple, is the right mechanism to make these choices.

    Palm has a history of favoring some partners, particularly carriers, over others; they are paying the price for that today as their market share shrinks from dominant to insignificant. They brag about shipping a million Centros (at a loss), while the new kid on the block sells six million and changes the technology forever.

    Apple is smart, at least smarter than their competitors. They are not going to arbitrarily limit the choices of their customers to favor one or two out of hundreds of partners.

    I understand the angst and the impatience. I was a Palm customer for a decade; Palm customers know angst and impatience. I think that Apple is making a Palm-like mistake by not addressing this issue up front. However, I do not think that the angst is justified; I expect to be pleased. I have waited years for Palm and then been disappointed. I can wait a few weeks or months for Apple, yet to disappoint.
    06-15-2008 10:17 AM
  11. MyphoneIphone's Avatar
    I found this looks pretty coool ! GPS web based app for the Iphone
    this is the url I found Iphone Find Me Beta Signup

    THanks all
    06-20-2008 12:34 PM
  12. xintelinsanex's Avatar
    Oh man GPS web app on EDGE? Good lord that sounds slow.
    06-20-2008 01:52 PM
  13. whmurray's Avatar
    Oh man GPS web app on EDGE? Good lord that sounds slow.
    Depends upon the App. Based on the illustrations, it looks as though the app can do "directions." Probably built on Google maps. Where else does one get the map data? Still one cannot rely upon EDGE for turn-by-turn because of gaps in coverage.
    06-20-2008 04:32 PM
  14. xintelinsanex's Avatar
    I thought of a great GPS app that I would love to see. I want a TV Guide application that is aware of where I am and automatically show listings for tv stations, national broadcast and cable stations. I hope someone will make this app.
    06-21-2008 09:51 AM
  15. whmurray's Avatar
    I thought of a great GPS app that I would love to see. I want a TV Guide application that is aware of where I am and automatically show listings for tv stations, national broadcast and cable stations. I hope someone will make this app.
    I would have liked that when I watched local TV while traveling. These days I use Sling to watch my home TV while traveling.

    On a recent trip to New Orleans, my room had a panel in the wall into which I could plug my computer using hdmi. My Sling then showed up on the large flat screen TV. I always travel with a remote pointing device (mouse substitute) that I use for controlling Powerpoint Presentations. Using this device as a remote, I could sit on the bed and watch "my" TV as though I was at home.

    Of course, a non-gps app that I would like is a slingplayer for iPhone.
    06-21-2008 10:11 AM
  16. NPR_Aficionado's Avatar
    I completely agree about wanting a program that will keep a running/biking history. Tracking things such as time, distance, avg pace, splits. Then it logs everything into a history so you can review and log past runs. Then tying in Google's excellent search features so one can go search past runs by location (city or state) or any of the above stats. This could lead to saving $300+ by not buying a Garmin Forerunner.
    Last edited by NPR_aficionado; 06-22-2008 at 11:20 PM. Reason: typos
    06-22-2008 11:19 PM
  17. whmurray's Avatar
    As a throw-away line on CNBC this am, David Pogue said that the GPS in 3G is not fast enough for turn-by-turn directions. If true, that would explain the restriction in the license.
    07-09-2008 12:51 PM
  18. Cool Cat's Avatar
    Steve demoed the GPS by showing it tracking a car driving down a street, "zig-zagging" if I remember correctly. So how is that not sensitive enough for turn-by-turn directions?
    07-10-2008 12:54 AM
  19. Dionte's Avatar
    I want turn by turn directions
    07-10-2008 02:02 AM
  20. whmurray's Avatar
    Steve demoed the GPS by showing it tracking a car driving down a street, "zig-zagging" if I remember correctly. So how is that not sensitive enough for turn-by-turn directions?
    Hmmmmmmm.
    07-10-2008 06:02 AM
  21. whmurray's Avatar
    Check out this article were Greg Joswiak Apple product head is asked about cut and paste amongst other things.

    Apple: We Don't Hate GPS, Cut and Paste, or iPhone Office Suites - AppScout
    Reads as disingenuous to me. At best very carefully crafted answers, not to say FUD. Cut and paste has been in the top three of every iPhone wish list I have ever seen.

    As to GPS, I am keeping my Treo and looking to TomTom. Even if, as Pogue says, there is a problem with the GPS, the same solution will work on the iPhone as on the Treo. The Treo has no GPS; instead it uses an external GPS (less than $100-) connected via BT. Such a solution would work fine on the original iPhone with 2.0 software.
    07-13-2008 12:36 PM
  22. Jeremy's Avatar
    I completely agree about wanting a program that will keep a running/biking history. Tracking things such as time, distance, avg pace, splits. Then it logs everything into a history so you can review and log past runs. Then tying in Google's excellent search features so one can go search past runs by location (city or state) or any of the above stats. This could lead to saving $300+ by not buying a Garmin Forerunner.

    http://forum.theiphoneblog.com/iphon...runkeeper.html
    07-14-2008 11:19 AM
  23. marcol's Avatar
    As to GPS, I am keeping my Treo and looking to TomTom. Even if, as Pogue says, there is a problem with the GPS, the same solution will work on the iPhone as on the Treo. The Treo has no GPS; instead it uses an external GPS (less than $100-) connected via BT. Such a solution would work fine on the original iPhone with 2.0 software.
    Joswiak's comments give me some hope about getting turn-by-turn nav apps working with the built in GPS at some point. Anyone have any idea what the "complicated issues" preventing them might be?

    What's the deal with GPS driving directions? Many developers have said that Apple's SDK license agreement prohibits the development of driving-directions apps, and the New York Times's David Pogue muddied the waters by saying that the iPhone's GPS isn't physically capable of providing driving directions. "According to Apple, the iPhone's G.P.S. antenna is much too small to emulate the turn-by-turn navigation of a G.P.S. unit for a vehicle," Pogue wrote.

    That's wrong, Joswiak said; the iPhone's GPS is just like the GPS in other phones, many of which do provide driving directions. Rather, there are some murky "complicated issues" preventing driving directions apps at the moment. "It will evolve. I think our developers will amaze us," he said.
    07-14-2008 11:58 AM
  24. kilsey's Avatar
    I'm hoping for some form of a geocaching app...

    Oh, and turn by turn directions would be lovely as well I'm not sure I'm worried about the power issue - if I'm in the car, I'm plugging it in anyways!
    07-14-2008 12:03 PM
  25. whmurray's Avatar
    Joswiak's comments give me some hope about getting turn-by-turn nav apps working with the built in GPS at some point. Anyone have any idea what the "complicated issues" preventing them might be?
    The comments were intended not to destroy hope. That is different from offering hope.
    07-14-2008 10:04 PM
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