1. Malatesta's Avatar
    I wasn't speculating. I was making that statement based on published facts from the manufacturers.

    Is there a manufacturer that you do not trust to rely on published specs?
    No, I don't trust any manufacture. I trust real world usage by people who actually use them and online reviews of the device. e.g. the Q is "rated" at 4 hours talk time yet in this review gets 4.5 hours. The BB 8800 is rated at 5 hours talk time yet gets something closer to 4.5. The Macbook Pro with Coreduo is rated at 5 hours but a lot users get something closer to 4 hours. Mind you a 1/2 difference in battery life between GSM and CDMA phones can be explained just by the fact GSM has more efficient radios than CDMA (the moto Q GSM is now rated at 5 hours, 1 more than it's CDMA brother)

    So yes, I think relying on published specs as fact instead of a guideline is the height of naivete in the tech world. And since no one here as used an iPhone is real life usage, taking Apple's word is silly and simple-minded.
    What are these reasons? Seriously, Are you talking about the lack of BB software for the iPhone? The iPhone will have it's own unique solution for push email; just as the Nokia does with "Intellisync", just as the Q with "Good Technologies", just as the M$ based Treo 750 with "Exchange"...

    I don't see it as magic, I just see my comments as fact.
    It's "own unique solution for push email"? Yahoo?

    Yes, I can see it now. Tons of companies with invested money in BES infrastructure are going to surrender this system to Yahoo and the iPhone. Same with companies that use Exchange and are planning on upgrading to Exchange 2007/WM6 with those amazing features which the iPhone will never compete on. (Hint: it's not meant to).

    As far as other reasons they are not the same class:

    - No 3g
    - No Exchange/BB/Good Technologies support (you an do all 3 on WM)
    - No 3rd party software for business
    - No integration with existing systems
    - No VOIP (Skype, Gtalk, etc.)
    - No remote admin, FTP
    - No information rights management
    - No security features (remote wipe, encryption)
    - No message flagging, search server, out-of-office, etc.

    Smartphone/PPCs/BBs, etc are all business devices primarily. The iPhone is for yuppies who want more than a normal cell phone but none of the business features. It's an entertainment device with a phone.

    This is so obvious and the fact I have to explain it to you speaks volumes.
    03-27-2007 02:46 PM
  2. surur's Avatar
    This is so obvious and the fact I have to explain it to you speaks volumes.
    Quoted for truth.

    Surur
    03-27-2007 04:44 PM
  3. naivete's Avatar
    My problems with the iPhone so far are as follows:

    1. I don't like using a soft keyboard.
    2. It's Cingular/ATT only.
    3. Don't know how fast this baby runs.

    EDIT: Battery life is good.
    03-27-2007 05:02 PM
  4. archie's Avatar
    No, I don't trust any manufacture. I trust real world usage by people who actually use them and online reviews of the device. e.g. the Q is "rated" at 4 hours talk time yet in this review gets 4.5 hours. The BB 8800 is rated at 5 hours talk time yet gets something closer to 4.5. The Macbook Pro with Coreduo is rated at 5 hours but a lot users get something closer to 4 hours. Mind you a 1/2 difference in battery life between GSM and CDMA phones can be explained just by the fact GSM has more efficient radios than CDMA (the moto Q GSM is now rated at 5 hours, 1 more than it's CDMA brother)

    So yes, I think relying on published specs as fact instead of a guideline is the height of naivete in the tech world. And since no one here as used an iPhone is real life usage, taking Apple's word is silly and simple-minded.
    I take Apple's word because I have been using their products for a very long time and I trust there publishings. Everything that I have purchased from them has returned better battery life than published so that is why I can say with confidence that the iPhone will have 5 hours of battery life... as published. You would know this if you knew anything about Apple's products... but you clearly do not.

    Oh, and none of Apple's products use LiON batteries as you state. They use Lithium-polymer batteries, which are not dependent on the environment or the limited number of charges as you state, or the temperature or the draw.

    The do boast about a 20% greater energy density than your lithium ion batteries though, and they can be shaped to fit the device it powers, plus they offer 10,000 charge cycles before showing significant wear. This bests the cheaper batteries used in all other electronics today, such as every single device you mention above - except for those made by Apple. And though is has not yet been officially stated, it is certainly reasonable to assume that this is the type of battery Apple will be incorporating in the iPhone which will serve to best all other phones on the market.



    Yes, as your friend says, the MacBook Pro will only give you 3.5 - 4 hours if you are using wi-fi for that entire time but a drop like this is to be expected on any device and is listed in Apple's published specs anyway, as it should be; unlike others.
    03-28-2007 01:14 AM
  5. archie's Avatar

    - No 3g
    It's coming, but first the providers have to build it.

    - No Exchange/BB/Good Technologies support (you an do all 3 on WM)
    It does have some Exchange support (though, I will admit it is unknown at this time, to what degree of support it will offer), and Yahoo support... and I'd be willing to wager that it will have yet another e-mail technology solution soon after it arrives.

    - No 3rd party software for business
    hmph...

    - No integration with existing systems
    What are you talking about? It integrates with more than you know apparently.

    - No VOIP (Skype, Gtalk, etc.)
    Nope. Cisco will probably be providing a tie-in VOIP solution though.

    - No remote admin, FTP
    Again, I would be willing to wager that Apple will eventually provide such a solution. In a sense it already has this capability if you used a web-based solution.

    - No security features (remote wipe, encryption)
    It has the best security features available.

    - No message flagging, search server, out-of-office, etc.
    I assume you are talking about e-mail functionality here — which it will have.

    Smartphone/PPCs/BBs, etc are all business devices primarily. The iPhone is for yuppies who want more than a normal cell phone but none of the business features. It's an entertainment device with a phone.

    This is so obvious and the fact I have to explain it to you speaks volumes.
    03-28-2007 01:32 AM
  6. Malatesta's Avatar
    Oh, and none of Apple's products use LiON batteries as you state. They use Lithium-polymer batteries...
    ...and I stand corrected. :o

    Good to know, though I'll still wait for real world tests with people. Seeing as it doesn't have 3g (hmph) it should have decent battery life anyways. That's why the HTC Dash gets great reviews too...

    I do want to be clear: I'm not slamming Apple for battery life, I'm just aware of what they're up against. Until a revolution in batteries becomes mass-market, these converged devices will always be limited imo, regardless of make or OS. Some will fair better than others but they will be modest gains.

    As far as Apple competing with WM and BB, all I have to say is this: Microsoft's target with WM6 is right on RIM/BlackBerry. They said as much when they discussed the code-name "Crossbow" being aimed at their competitors. So if MS's "target" is RIM and it's corporate affilations, what does the iPhone bring to the table as far as business support?

    I would suggest not much. Which is fine since I don't think they are after that to begin with.

    What they are doing is bringing things like 'push email' to the pro-sumer, which is how technology usually works: corporate use first, trickle down to mass market when financially feasible. Apple is not the first to do this (MS and hotmail will be push soon, Yahoo as well, Sprint has a push solution for regular folks too, etc.), but it is commendable and recognized Apple will be successful in getting it to market, broadly.
    03-28-2007 02:11 AM
  7. marcol's Avatar
    Yeh, yeh, yeh. Consider this:
    If the iPod Nano is the most successful iPod ever, even compared to the iPods with greater storage capacity, don't you think the iPhone with it's 8GB of storage (which incidentally bests the iPod Nano by 2GBs) will be enough for the greater market share?
    As requested in the other thread, I'd like to see the sales numbers for Nanos if you have them. You're wrong about Nano capacities though. Top capacity is '8 GB' - actual storage capacity (of mine at least): 7.5 GB.
    03-28-2007 06:45 AM
  8. marcol's Avatar
    And their laptop battery life is not exactly amazing with the Intel chips.
    I've been very pleased with the battery life of my MacBook. Apple says 'up to 6 hours' and while I don't think I've seen that I've certainly had the best part of five hours. It depends a lot of course on what you're doing. The processor speed is scaled back if the full 2 GHz isn't required and processor-intensive tasks hit battery life hard; screen brightness seems to have a pretty big impact too.
    03-28-2007 06:57 AM
  9. marcol's Avatar
    It's coming, but first the providers have to build it.
    You'll be in the US then Apple really need to rethink if they're planning to release a non-3G iPhone in Europe. A GPRS phone (which is what it would be in much of Europe, including the UK, where there's little or no EDGE) is simply crazy. Skating to where the puck was five years ago? Not a good plan!

    Also, for the UK, NOT VODAFONE! There is simply no point to an internet-connected device when connection to the internet is prohibitively expensive. Vodafone UK data charges are STILL 2.35 (about $4.60) per MB. For comparison, T-Mobile UK 'unlimited' packages: 7.50 pcm(capped at 1 GB) to 22.50 pcm (capped at 10 GB). I guess Apple might be able to negotiate some reduction in data cost or perhaps Vodafone will reduce anyway, but unless that happens the iPhone's prospects on Vodafone would be truly crippled by these costs - more so even than the Treo 750 (because iPhone is more consumer oriented).
    03-28-2007 07:22 AM
  10. surur's Avatar
    Marcol, probably not. For one, the phone is meant for newbies who would not be exploiting the connected features of the device (i.e. no streaming music, no over the air downloads) and two, GPRS by itself will inhibit people from using the internet browser to its full abilities. Lastly, Vodafone would love to have a device which persuades people to use the internet despite the prohibitive costs, making them more money.

    The IPhone and Vodafone is a perfect fit.

    Oh, and none of Apple's products use LiON batteries as you state. They use Lithium-polymer batteries, which are not dependent on the environment or the limited number of charges as you state, or the temperature or the draw.

    The do boast about a 20% greater energy density than your lithium ion batteries though, and they can be shaped to fit the device it powers, plus they offer 10,000 charge cycles before showing significant wear. This bests the cheaper batteries used in all other electronics today, such as every single device you mention above - except for those made by Apple. And though is has not yet been officially stated, it is certainly reasonable to assume that this is the type of battery Apple will be incorporating in the iPhone which will serve to best all other phones on the market.
    From Apple.com

    Lithium Ion Batteries

    Rechargeable Lithium-based technology currently provides the best performance for your Apple notebook computer or iPod. You can also find this standard battery technology in devices such as cell phones and PDAs. Apple batteries share the characteristics common to Lithium-based technology found in other devices. Like other rechargeable batteries, these batteries may eventually require replacement.

    Standard Technology
    Lithium-ion batteries pack in a higher power density than Nickel-based batteries. This gives you a longer battery life in a lighter package, as Lithium is the lightest metal. You can also recharge a Lithium-ion battery whenever convenient, without the full charge or discharge cycle necessary to keep Nickel-based batteries at peak performance. (Over time, crystals build up in Nickel-based batteries and prevent you from charging them completely, necessitating an inconvenient full discharge).

    Standard Charging
    Most Lithium-ion batteries use a fast charge to charge your device to 80% battery capacity, then switch to trickle charging. Thats about two hours charge time to power iPod to 80% capacity, then another two hours to fully charge iPod, if you are not using iPod while charging. You can charge all Lithium-ion batteries a large but finite number of times, as defined by charge cycle.

    Charge Cycle.
    Using and recharging 100% of battery capacity equals one full charge cycle.

    A charge cycle means using all of the batterys power, but that doesnt necessarily mean a single charge. For instance, you could listen to your iPod for a few hours one day, using half its power, and then recharge it fully. If you did the same thing the next day, it would count as one charge cycle, not two, so you may take several days to complete a cycle. Each time you complete a charge cycle, it diminishes battery capacity slightly, but you can put both notebook and iPod batteries through many charge cycles before they will only hold 80% of original battery capacity. As with other rechargeable batteries, you may eventually need to replace your battery.

    How to Maximize Power Use
    The length of time your battery will power your device depends on how you use it. For instance, watching a DVD will use up your notebook batterys power more quickly than simple word processing. You can follow some simple steps to maximize your notebooks or iPods battery life.

    Hot Tip
    If you use your iPod or notebook in temperatures higher than its specified operating range, 95F (or 35C), you may permanently damage your batterys capacity. I.e., your battery wont power your device as long on any given charge. You may damage it even more if you charge the device in these temperatures. Even storing a battery in a hot environment can damage it irreversibly.

    On Playing It Cool
    You may find that playing an iPod in a very cold environment decreases battery life. Unlike a hot environment, this is a temporary condition. Once molecules in the battery warm up, the battery will return to its previous capacity.

    http://www.apple.com/batteries/

    btw, Archie, Lithium Polymer has no more recharge cycles than lithium ion, about 500. Wrong again. Dont grab the most optimistic numbers from the internet and suddenly claim Apple is using that tech. 10 000 cycles indeed. I guess those Ipods that were crapping out were old stock from 27 years ago.

    You are such a blind fanboy. I hear the latest Mac Pro uses atomic batteries and never needs recharging. Thats because they are really 5 years ahead of everyone else!

    I gues all these othe Appleusers are also amazed with Apple's battery tech!

    I have had a 12-inch PowerBook for a little over 18 months, and now anytime I unplug my laptop from the outlet it turns off. I honestly feel ripped off because the problem began around 1 month after my 12 month warranty.

    (4 of 15 people found this review useful)


    Poor apple product
    Written by JH from Charlottesville
    March 2, 2007


    Report this as inappropriate >

    I've had my 12' powerbook for over three years. It has been through 474 load cycles, and it is just now getting down below half it's original capacity.
    Its not unreasonable to have to spend 150 bucks every couple of years to maintain a tool that I ... Read more >use every day.

    (7 of 15 people found this review useful)


    I can't complain.
    Written by JM from Burnaby
    February 13, 2007


    Report this as inappropriate >

    I had my powerbook for about a year ann then the battery life went down 30mins and then around 6 months later it went down to 1 min. so if it is not pluged in is computer truns off right in the middidle of what you are doing. then one time my powerbo... Read more >ok came unpluged and i did not notice because the powercord comes out to easy and my computer truned off and when i powered it back up it had locked up andi went to the mac store they told me tht they only way to fix it was to re-load mac OX ten. but because my hard drive was locked up we could not save the ANY!!!!! of the DATA. because of this i lost many photographic pojects that were in progress. all of music gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this battery is a major problem. i just hope the new models don't have this same problem. the powerbook is great but the battery in hinestight makes that it not worth buying, because i have lost stuff i can't buy back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    (10 of 31 people found this review useful)


    this battery sucks
    Written by CB from San Francisco
    February 11, 2007
    http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:r...lnk&cd=1&gl=uk

    http://aos.prf.hn/click/camref:1100l...plm=M9337G%2FA

    Archie, again,wrong, wrong, wrong :shake:

    Surur
    03-28-2007 07:49 AM
  11. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    You'll be in the US then Apple really need to rethink if they're planning to release a non-3G iPhone in Europe. A GPRS phone (which is what it would be in much of Europe, including the UK, where there's little or no EDGE) is simply crazy. Skating to where the puck was five years ago? Not a good plan!

    Not a lot of EDGE in Europe??? I was unaware of that!! No wonder SE refuses to make a lot of EDGE phones!
    03-28-2007 08:26 AM
  12. marcol's Avatar
    Marcol, probably not. For one, the phone is meant for newbies who would not be exploiting the connected features of the device
    I don't think I agree with this. I don't know who you're defining as 'newbies' (people new to smartphones?) but it seems very clear to me that the sales pitch from Apple is emphasising that it's an internet device. From the keynote onwards they've hammered the message that it's a phone, a widescreen iPod AND an internet device. Take a look here:

    http://www.apple.com/iphone/

    It seems very clear that Apple means the device to be used by people who will use the connected features (web browsing, email, google maps, widgets that connect to the internet). There are 15 app icons shown on the iPhone home screen that we've seen so far (see the page linked above) and five of those apps would be useless without internet connection.

    (i.e. no streaming music, no over the air downloads)
    That may be the case (at least in first iteration) but that doesn't mean there are no internet connected apps (see above: 5/15).

    and two, GPRS by itself will inhibit people from using the internet browser to its full abilities.
    Which is why it needs 3G (in EDGE-less Europe at least).

    Lastly, Vodafone would love to have a device which persuades people to use the internet despite the prohibitive costs, making them more money.
    I'm sure they would. Thing is, will Apple go with them if data costs emasculate the device?

    The IPhone and Vodafone is a perfect fit.
    I don't think it's a perfect fit at all but the rumours are than Vodafone are (early) favourites to get it:

    http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...ss&siteid=mktw

    The same rumour has Apple favouring a single, pan-European carrier. Vodafone are pretty much the only carrier that meets that requirement:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vodafone

    Think again, Apple!
    03-28-2007 08:55 AM
  13. marcol's Avatar
    Not a lot of EDGE in Europe??? I was unaware of that!! No wonder SE refuses to make a lot of EDGE phones!
    I've heard it said of Europe generally but have really only looked into it in any detail for the UK. Of the five major UK carriers, Vodafone, Orange, O2, T-Mobile and 3, I think I'm right in saying only Orange has any EDGE network at all, and that's only to fill in the gaps in the 3G coverage. Basically, they skipped EDGE and went straight to UMTS.
    03-28-2007 09:04 AM
  14. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    It may be true about not a lot of EDGE in Europe. Although Nokia seems to include EDGE on it's good phones anyway, I'm guessing because SE is Asia based(?), it just goes straight for UMTS to cover both Asia and Europe without having to install another radio? I'm just speculating, but I've wondered why SE hates EDGE so much.
    03-28-2007 09:12 AM
  15. marcol's Avatar
    Actually, some of research reveals there's quite a bit of EDGE in Europe:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EDGE#Europe

    but it's still fair to say that most carriers in most countries have little or no EDGE network. According to the above, there's only one carrier with any EDGE in the UK, one carrier in Germany, no EDGE carriers in Spain, Vodafone has EDGE in only one country, etc, etc.
    03-28-2007 09:16 AM
  16. archie's Avatar
    Hate to disappoint you and your imagined victory but...

    From Apple.com

    Lithium Ion Batteries

    Rechargeable Lithium-based technology currently provides the best performance for your Apple notebook computer or iPod. You can also find this standard battery technology in devices such as cell phones and PDAs. Apple batteries share the characteristics common to Lithium-based technology found in other devices. Like other rechargeable batteries, these batteries may eventually require replacement.

    Standard Technology
    Lithium-ion batteries pack in a higher power density than Nickel-based batteries. This gives you a longer battery life in a lighter package, as Lithium is the lightest metal. You can also recharge a Lithium-ion battery whenever convenient, without the full charge or discharge cycle necessary to keep Nickel-based batteries at peak performance. (Over time, crystals build up in Nickel-based batteries and prevent you from charging them completely, necessitating an inconvenient full discharge).

    Standard Charging
    Most Lithium-ion batteries use a fast charge to charge your device to 80% battery capacity, then switch to trickle charging. That’s about two hours charge time to power iPod to 80% capacity, then another two hours to fully charge iPod, if you are not using iPod while charging. You can charge all Lithium-ion batteries a large but finite number of times, as defined by charge cycle.

    Charge Cycle.
    Using and recharging 100% of battery capacity equals one full charge cycle.

    A charge cycle means using all of the battery’s power, but that doesn’t necessarily mean a single charge. For instance, you could listen to your iPod for a few hours one day, using half its power, and then recharge it fully. If you did the same thing the next day, it would count as one charge cycle, not two, so you may take several days to complete a cycle. Each time you complete a charge cycle, it diminishes battery capacity slightly, but you can put both notebook and iPod batteries through many charge cycles before they will only hold 80% of original battery capacity. As with other rechargeable batteries, you may eventually need to replace your battery.

    How to Maximize Power Use
    The length of time your battery will power your device depends on how you use it. For instance, watching a DVD will use up your notebook battery’s power more quickly than simple word processing. You can follow some simple steps to maximize your notebook’s or iPod’s battery life.

    Hot Tip
    If you use your iPod or notebook in temperatures higher than its specified operating range, 95F (or 35C), you may permanently damage your battery’s capacity. I.e., your battery won’t power your device as long on any given charge. You may damage it even more if you charge the device in these temperatures. Even storing a battery in a hot environment can damage it irreversibly.

    On Playing It Cool
    You may find that playing an iPod in a very cold environment decreases battery life. Unlike a hot environment, this is a temporary condition. Once molecules in the battery warm up, the battery will return to its previous capacity.

    http://www.apple.com/batteries/
    This page has not been updated. Apple has been using Lithium-polymer batteries for at least a year now.

    See this link as an example: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303785

    Also, read all of the Tech Specs pages for the products.

    I'm not sure why that page, you some how managed to find, hasn't been updated yet.

    btw, Archie, Lithium Polymer has no more recharge cycles than lithium ion, about 500. Wrong again.
    Lithium-polymer DOES have more charge cycles than Lithium ion. That is perhaps one of the more important benefits of the battery and you will discover this on any wiki page or fact sheet. How can you sit there and tell me otherwise?

    It also has an advantage in not weighing as much and being quite...

    Wait, just read this from the wiki:
    Since no metal battery cell casing is needed, the battery can be lighter and it can be specifically shaped to fit the device it will power. Because of the denser packaging without intercell spacing between cylindrical cells and the lack of metal casing, the energy density of Li-Poly batteries is over 20% higher than that of a classical Li-Ion battery and approximately three times better than NiCd and NiMH batteries.
    This will prove particularly useful in the iPhone, which is the original subject here.


    You are such a blind fanboy. I hear the latest Mac Pro uses atomic batteries and never needs recharging. Thats because they are really 5 years ahead of everyone else!

    I gues all these othe Appleusers are also amazed with Apple's battery tech!


    http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:r...lnk&cd=1&gl=uk

    http://aos.prf.hn/click/camref:1100l...plm=M9337G%2FA

    Archie, again,wrong, wrong, wrong :shake:

    Surur
    These are spammers and ramblings that you have selectively pasted in.

    How about this one that I found just below yours:

    I love my powerbook. The battery life depends on a number of different factors so I have to laugh when people chide apple because THEY probably didn't use the battery correctly.

    When you first receive your battery make sure to run the charge down completely before it is ever charged for the first time.

    If you can keep your laptop plugged in when not traveling, this will help to lengthen the life of the battery.

    SO GET OVER IT, CRYBABIES. LOL!!

    (38 of 60 people found this review useful)


    3 year old battery
    Written by BJ from SPRINGFIELD
    November 16, 2006

    I can't do this any more. I'm done.
    03-28-2007 12:13 PM
  17. surur's Avatar
    Archie, Archie, Archie... 10 000 cycles? Really?

    When compared to the lithium ion battery, Li-Poly had a greater life cycle degradation rate. However, in recent years, manufacturers have been declaring upwards of 500 charge-discharge cycles before the capacity drops to 80% (see Sanyo). Another variant of Li-Poly cells, the "thin film rechargeable lithium battery" has been shown to provide more than 10,000 cycles.
    From your precious wikipedia article.

    A very specific and recent implementation has 10 000. Most Lithium Polymer batteries (which have been around for some time in fact) have less. Much less. I fact less than Lithium ion.

    I can't do this any more. I'm done.
    With as much disinformation as you are attempting to spread I would hope so.

    Surur
    03-28-2007 12:53 PM
  18. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Archie, which type of battery did Apple use in the iPod mini?
    03-29-2007 06:24 AM
  19. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    How about this one that I found just below yours:




    I can't do this any more. I'm done.
    I think many people are unaware of what you need to do with Powerbook batteries. I remember this when I used the 12", they said to let the battery power down then charge. But it should be made more prominently known. I think most people have the "charge up as soon as I get in the door" instinct with brand new devices.
    03-29-2007 06:47 AM
  20. Malatesta's Avatar
    I think many people are unaware of what you need to do with Powerbook batteries. I remember this when I used the 12", they said to let the battery power down then charge. But it should be made more prominently known. I think most people have the "charge up as soon as I get in the door" instinct with brand new devices.
    See...here's the thing: that "advice" about deep-discharging/cycling?

    Completely, totally wrong. You never do that for any Li battery.

    So wrong in fact that it actually damages the battery to do so. I guess it doesn't surprise me that an Apple user on that board cited above would post such out-dated non-sense (that works for NiMH/NiCD batteries), act like the know-it-all and then in marches Archie to prop it up as evidence to support his position

    So that's why it's not more prominently known because it is wrong...
    03-29-2007 03:39 PM
  21. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    I did remember seeing that before however, so people were doing it to Powerbook batteries. I think even Apple said to do it, but I have to find the documentation. I still have the 12" but haven't used it in so long.
    03-29-2007 03:56 PM
  22. archie's Avatar
    ...and then in marches Archie to prop it up as evidence to support his position
    I was't using it to illustrate how to properly charge a battery, I was using it to illustrate that people get good battery life out of the batteries that Apple supplies ignoring the angry, Apple-hating, spamming trolls like suror wants to use to suppory his... whatever... whatever it is he is trying to do:

    i just hope the new models don't have this same problem. the powerbook is great but the battery in hinestight makes that it not worth buying, because i have lost stuff i can't buy back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    What the heck is that about. She is ranting and raving about the battery because she left it unplugged one day then the computer crashed and she lost everything. Oh, yeh, THATS the battery's fault.
    03-30-2007 03:05 AM
  23. archie's Avatar
    Archie, which type of battery did Apple use in the iPod mini?
    I think the mini came out about 3.5 - 4 years ago so they would have used a Lithium-ion type battery going that far back.
    03-30-2007 03:08 AM
  24. surur's Avatar
    I was't using it to illustrate how to properly charge a battery, I was using it to illustrate that people get good battery life out of the batteries that Apple supplies – ignoring the angry, Apple-hating, spamming trolls like suror wants to use to suppory his... whatever... whatever it is he is trying to do
    Yes Archie, everyone who does not worship Steve Jobs hates Apple. I think my quote quite adequately demonstrates people using Apple products experience both good AND bad battery life, unlike your grandiose claim that Apple products never disappoint.

    I think the mini came out about 3.5 - 4 years ago so they would have used a Lithium-ion type battery going that far back.
    You know Archie, the Ipaq 3100 from 2001 used a Lithium Polymer battery. According to you it sounds as if Apple was behind the times again.

    Surur
    03-30-2007 04:40 AM
  25. marcol's Avatar
    See...here's the thing: that "advice" about deep-discharging/cycling?

    Completely, totally wrong. You never do that for any Li battery.

    So wrong in fact that it actually damages the battery to do so. I guess it doesn't surprise me that an Apple user on that board cited above would post such out-dated non-sense (that works for NiMH/NiCD batteries), act like the know-it-all and then in marches Archie to prop it up as evidence to support his position

    So that's why it's not more prominently known because it is wrong...
    Apple recommend that you calibrate your battery when you first get the machine and do so again every few months. Calibration involves discharging the battery to the point where the computer is forced to sleep.

    Calibrating your computer's battery for best performance

    You can calibrate your iBook, PowerBook, MacBook or MacBook Pro computer's lithium ion battery for best performance.

    The battery has an internal microprocessor that provides an estimate of the amount of energy in the battery as it charges and discharges. The battery needs to be recalibrated from time to time to keep the onscreen battery time and percent display accurate. With all iBooks and PowerBook G4 computers except the aluminum PowerBook G4 (15-inch Double-Layer SD), you should perform this procedure when you first use your computer and then every few months thereafter.

    [snip]

    PowerBook G4 (15-inch Double-Layer SD), MacBook (all models), MacBook Pro (all models), and MacBook Pro (17-inch) (all models)

    The battery calibration for the PowerBook G4 (15-inch Double-Layer SD) and any model of MacBook or MacBook Pro has been updated because of a new battery released with this computer. With these computers, follow these steps to calibrate your battery:

    1. Plug in the power adapter and fully charge your PowerBook's battery until the light ring or LED on the power adapter plug changes to green and the onscreen meter in the menu bar indicates that the battery is fully charged.

    2. Allow the battery to rest in the fully charged state for at least two hours. You may use your computer during this time as long as the adapter is plugged in.

    3. Disconnect the power adapter with the computer still on and start running the computer off battery power. You may use your computer during this time. When your battery gets low, you will see the low battery warning dialog on the screen.

    4. Continue to keep your computer on until it goes to sleep. Save all your work and close all applications when the battery gets very low, before the computer goes to sleep.

    5. Turn off the computer or allow it to sleep for five hours or more.

    6. Connect the power adapter and leave it connected until the battery is fully charged again.
    http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86284

    Your assertion that deep discharging is 'completely, totally wrong' and that you should 'never' do it is at odds with what Apple say. Like you I've read the advice that to preserve the life of Li-ion/Li-polymer batteries you should keep them topped up as much as possible. I follow this advice but do a calibration as described by Apple every six months.
    03-30-2007 05:20 AM
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