1. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    You need to watch steve jobs video to know the differences.
    Treo 650 appears to be very 1970's compared to this bad boy .
    Widgets will make life very easy .
    Painful small screen on Treo 650 ,Lousy webbrowser, poor resolution not even a megapixel camera , there are tons of other features .
    I would say about 2002ish. The screen is fine. The other stuff is rusty, I'll agree.

    In the 70s, they used mobile phones connected to cars and needed an operator to complete the call from what I understand!! Even the 650 isn't that backwards!
    01-14-2007 07:31 PM
  2. CGK#IM's Avatar
    Is the iphone going to force a re-consideration of form for palm? How many times can you rehash the treo 600?
    01-14-2007 08:11 PM
  3. MacUser's Avatar
    Palm OS is a crappy OS.. it's very limited so it requires 3rd party apps that push the system (background playback, email checking) which lead to stability issues not present in more modern operating systems that some of us are using on their phones.
    Quite true. I'm excited that an OS that works well with my computer will be availble come June.

    If you are here on Treocentral (and have or had a Treo), you've chosen the Treo based on form factor and features that come in the way of 3rd party apps, usually. Saying that you won't require this from your next phone makes you an 'apologist'. Keep repeating it; by the time the iPhone gets here you'll be convinced.
    Yes, form factor and features, SOME of which come from 3rd party apps.
    I don't know if you can argue with the form factor of the iPhone. It's thin and sleek with revolutionary touch-screen technology. Sure, many complain about the non-tactile keyboard, but how can you knock it till you've tried it.
    As far as the 3rd party apps that compel me to be a Treo user...

    I won't need pTunes anymore as I'll have iTunes...
    I won't need 3rd party browsers that may or may not work, I'll have Safari ...
    I won't need Missing Sync to sync data...
    I won't need Missing Sync to have a "good" Memo app...
    I won't need Agendus to get all my appointments and tasks to work with iCal...
    I won't need Chatter to get my email...
    I won't need FileZ to move files to make my phone work...
    I won't need GoogleMaps because it will have it already...
    I won't need Hi-Launcher because I can quickly tap on the screen and get what I need.
    I won't need PowerRun because I'll have 8 Gigs of space on the HD...
    I won't need SplashPhoto because I'll have the Photos application...
    I won't need TCPMP because I'll watch videos under the iPod app.
    I won't need Volume Care because the Phone app should actually work(out of the box)...
    I won't need TreoGuard because the screen has that technology built in...

    The only thing I really am concerned with is my SplashID app to store passwords. I hope there's an app or a widget for that.
    01-14-2007 09:33 PM
  4. NextDream's Avatar
    Quite true. I'm excited that an OS that works well with my computer will be availble come June.



    Yes, form factor and features, SOME of which come from 3rd party apps.
    I don't know if you can argue with the form factor of the iPhone. It's thin and sleek with revolutionary touch-screen technology. Sure, many complain about the non-tactile keyboard, but how can you knock it till you've tried it.
    As far as the 3rd party apps that compel me to be a Treo user...

    I won't need pTunes anymore as I'll have iTunes...
    I won't need 3rd party browsers that may or may not work, I'll have Safari ...
    I won't need Missing Sync to sync data...
    I won't need Missing Sync to have a "good" Memo app...
    I won't need Agendus to get all my appointments and tasks to work with iCal...
    I won't need Chatter to get my email...
    I won't need FileZ to move files to make my phone work...
    I won't need GoogleMaps because it will have it already...
    I won't need Hi-Launcher because I can quickly tap on the screen and get what I need.
    I won't need PowerRun because I'll have 8 Gigs of space on the HD...
    I won't need SplashPhoto because I'll have the Photos application...
    I won't need TCPMP because I'll watch videos under the iPod app.
    I won't need Volume Care because the Phone app should actually work(out of the box)...
    I won't need TreoGuard because the screen has that technology built in...

    The only thing I really am concerned with is my SplashID app to store passwords. I hope there's an app or a widget for that.


    Yeah, what he ^^ said.

    I didn't get a Treo because it had tons of 3rd party software...I got a Treo and realized f*ck, I need some 3rd party software. The third party software takes it from marginal to acceptable.
    01-14-2007 09:58 PM
  5. NextDream's Avatar
    The author of this top ten list is an *****:

    1. Slow mobile data: EDGE is 2.5G, so the top speed you can get from it is about 100Kbit/s. Also, the only Australian phone network that supports it is Telstra - everyone else will only be able to use slower-than-dialup GPRS. The iPhone would be way cooler with 1.8Mbit/s HSDPA. (See our analysis of why Apple probably used EDGE in preference to 3G in our previous iPhone report).

    2. Battery life sucks: Five hours of talk/browsing/email or 16 hours of audio playback? Look, we're not saying the iPhone isn't an amazing device, but you're going to want a charger on your desk at work, one in your car, one on your bedside table...

    3. Built-in battery: It must be the only mobile phone on the market that doesn't have an easily user-replaceable battery. We know from the iPod that batteries age pretty quickly, but who wants to send their phone back to Apple for servicing when it needs a new battery? I don't want to have to go back to my dowdy old Nokia while Apple swaps the battery. That's a major flaw.

    4. Touch screen: Have you ever stood at a touch-screen terminal in a shop punching away at the screen, trying to get it to register your touch? Despite what Apple disparagingly called "small plastic keyboards" on other mobiles, they're way more likely to work reliably than a touch-screen. No doubt Jobs has licensed the world's best touch-screen technology, but it's still likely to be the weakest point of the phone.

    5. Heavy data usage: There's a reason why networks love ‘push email' phones like the Blackberry: it's because a tremendous amount of compression and optimisation can be done at the carrier-side before the data is sent over the air. An ultra-heavy user of a Blackberry might only use 20MB in a month - regular users will use just a few megs. On the other hand, the iPhone uses old-world ‘polling' email methods - POP3 or IMAP, where the phone will check every X minutes for new email and download full emails. The phone might have enough CPU power to rescale that 7MB JPEG, but it still has to download a 7MB JPEG. Either the service fees that go with the phone are going to be huge, or carriers are going to take a bath on data pricing and risk network congestion.

    6. Only a two megapixel camera: OK, camera phones are never going to beat a digital SLR, but Sony Ericsson has had a 3.2 Megapixel cameraphone out for months now. Unless S-E tied up exclusive supply on that part, it's tough to see why Apple wouldn't have gone for it.

    7. Proprietary tie-ins: Look, I'm not saying that the rest of the mobile industry isn't rife with proprietary tie-ins. Every carrier installs their crap onto mobiles, they disable useful manufacturer features so that you're forced to use their less-useful and more expensive services. But shouldn't we hold Apple to a higher standard? The iPhone can do push email according to Jobs, but only for people who have a Yahoo webmail account. Bad luck if you prefer Gmail or some other mail provider.

    8. No video iChat: Er, hello? Apple has an incredible base of customers out there with integrated webcams - doubtlessly more than any other PC or software maker - so what a missed opportunity!

    9. Apple chooses your mobile network: Apple has announced that its exclusive sales partner in the US will be the mobile network Cingular. Presumably, that's because even though iPhone is going to be an obvious hit, there are many political battles Apple faces in breaking into the telco world: powerful alliances and rebate schemes between handset makers and networks, the networks' fears that Apple might at some point introduce iTunes purchasing over-the-air, stealing away one of their valuable revenue streams and more. The end result? In each country, the phone will probably be locked to one carrier. (Interestingly, though, in Australia, carriers are legally obliged to unlock phones free of charge at the customer's request - though that doesn't cancel other contractual obligations such as ongoing plan fees.)

    10. Only 8GB storage: Ok, ok, sure, it's the biggest storage capacity of any phone on the market, probably, but 8GB is still pretty limited. Considering how good the video playback capabilities of the iPhone are, it's unfortunate that you won't actually be able to fit that much video on the device.


    #1)What would you have to be smoking to think 1.8MB download speeds on any mobile phone from a national carrier is possible? Too much traffic on the network.

    #2) Battery life sucks? 5 hours of talk time beats the 4.5 hours that the Treos offer.

    Then he goes on to make a number of stupid comments based on his own opinions rather than facts....like #3 ....i'm sure they got the best people to work on the touch screen....but it will probably still suck.

    Or my favorite#10...sure it has 8gigs of space which is the most of any mobile phone but...it's probably limited. This guy was either paid by palm or seriously needs to have a couple cups of STFU with his morning coffee.

    I could probably come up with the top ten reasons I hate the Ferrari F430 if I really wanted to.....

    1)Only 483hp : Ok, ok I know thats the most out there but still I don't think most of that reaches the rear wheels

    2)F1 Paddle Shifters : What's up with the F1 paddle shifters, I mean I'm sure they had the best Formula One people working on it but, I think it will still suck.

    3)Heavy Gas usage : My pretty little Prius just sips gas and this only gets 13 miles a gallon.

    4)No Rear View Camera : Why doesn't it come with a rear view camera for when I back up? Even big Mini-vans come with that, why can't I have what all the soccer moms have?

    5)Can't Parallel park itself : The new Lexus can parallel park all on it's own. Why can't this car do that?

    6)Audio system with 5 speakers : There are only 5 speakers...how will I ever get by with just 5 speakers.


    As you can see, it's easy to shoot your mouth off, but the fact is that it is come June the iPhone will be the best cell phone on the market.
    01-14-2007 10:17 PM
  6. Malatesta's Avatar
    #1)What would you have to be smoking to think 1.8MB download speeds on any mobile phone from a national carrier is possible? Too much traffic on the network.
    1.8mb is the theoretical possible speed of HSDPA, I think he's just using it as reference since he gave 100kb/EDGE speed. I didn't get the impression that he was saying that 1.8mbps is consistently attainable.

    Now having said that, it is possible and frequent for HSDPA to hit 1,000+kbps, in fact here is a HTC Dash and a 750 doing just that on on DSLreports today:

    1097 kbps T-Mobile Dash

    1014 kbps mycingular.net Palm750/v0000

    998 kbps mycingular.net Palm750

    Now as an EvDO user that's about 300-400kbps faster than what we get. Those are very, very desirable speeds that blow away EDGE and a shame you won't see those on the iPhone till the next version.

    No excuse for that.

    Just think of what Safari is going to look like creeping at 100kbps as opposed to 1,000kbps...:shake:
    Or my favorite#10...sure it has 8gigs of space which is the most of any mobile phone but...it's probably limited. This guy was either paid by palm or seriously needs to have a couple cups of STFU with his morning coffee.
    Well, it will be an awesome video device, no doubt. But for people with 30gb video iPods, it will be limiting to put all their music and vids on it. I think that's what he meant.

    Nitpicking? Definitely but they are some valid criticisms for some people (not the majority) and we all bought the Nano when it came out even though we went from 10,20 30 gb ipods to a measly 2 or 4gb.

    Having expandable memory would have a been a way around that one.

    #2) Battery life sucks? 5 hours of talk time beats the 4.5 hours that the Treos offer.
    Right but not everyone is leaving a Treo for an iPhone in fact it's probably more media phone/nokia, non-smartphone people who will by the iPhone and they will be use to double the talk time, so it will be an adjustment for them. I guess if you "reinvent the phone" cutting the average talk-time in half is not the way to do it...
    01-14-2007 11:16 PM
  7. skfny's Avatar

    #1)What would you have to be smoking to think 1.8MB download speeds on any mobile phone from a national carrier is possible? Too much traffic on the network.

    #2) Battery life sucks? 5 hours of talk time beats the 4.5 hours that the Treos offer.

    Then he goes on to make a number of stupid comments based on his own opinions rather than facts....like #3 ....i'm sure they got the best people to work on the touch screen....but it will probably still suck.

    Or my favorite#10...sure it has 8gigs of space which is the most of any mobile phone but...it's probably limited. This guy was either paid by palm or seriously needs to have a couple cups of STFU with his morning coffee.
    Put the Kool Aid down, read the last sentence you wrote, and think about what you just wrote. He said he's going to buy the iPhone regardless of its shortcomings. If Palm paid him to write that, then they're in even worse shape than we thought.

    1) So you'll never get to 1.8MB, therfore, you don't need anything beyond EDGE? Have you seen the difference between a 2G and 3G phone? With this line of reasoning, why even bother to go with EDGE when you can't reach the top speed? GPRS or CSD should work fine.

    2) If this phone has more battery life than the Treo with its thickness, every manufacturer in the electronics industry will be using Apple's battery technology in their future devices. Don't bet on it. And oh, by the way, where is the replaceable battery? Haven't iPod users been asking for this for half a decade now? Chances are every iPhone owner will be looking for ways to turn off all the fancy-but-little used tech to maximize battery life (screen sensor, light sensor, WiFi).

    3) ANY touchscreen will suck compared to a full keyboard, regardless of the technology used. That's true, like saying "it has the biggest screen of any smartphone, but I still wouldn't want to touch up photos on it". Just because it's using the best technology doesn't mean it's better than something else that uses a better system. Mybe he could have worded it better, but the gripe is that there's no physical keyboard and data entry will be a PITA.

    4) 8GB space? The point is to have removable storage. A year from now (or 6 months after this is released), we'll have 16GB in our SD-enabled devices and more on the way. I'd rather have an iPhone with an SD slot or two than one with built-in storage only.
    01-15-2007 08:20 AM
  8. Convert#IM's Avatar
    Without 3rd party apps, I wouldn't even consider it. Some of my most used apps are SplashID, Doc2Go, and HandyShopper, which without some equivalent, I wouldn't even consider a switch, no matter how cool.....
    01-15-2007 03:22 PM
  9. MacUser's Avatar
    Without 3rd party apps, I wouldn't even consider it. Some of my most used apps are SplashID, Doc2Go, and HandyShopper, which without some equivalent, I wouldn't even consider a switch, no matter how cool.....
    I was reading about a google ability to edit Word and PowerPoint files through their website. It may be a nice alternative to Docs To Go.

    I, too, will need a good password application like SplashID.

    Never heard of HandyShopper...
    01-15-2007 05:30 PM
  10. surur's Avatar
    I was reading about a google ability to edit Word and PowerPoint files through their website. It may be a nice alternative to Docs To Go.

    I, too, will need a good password application like SplashID.

    Never heard of HandyShopper...
    Ive heard full safari cant handle google office, so the chances of mini-safari doing it is about nil.

    Surur
    01-15-2007 06:40 PM
  11. kmrivers's Avatar
    Ive heard full safari cant handle google office, so the chances of mini-safari doing it is about nil.

    Surur
    It has nothing to do with being able to handle google office. It simply doesn't have a version for it yet. They are working on that.

    And who said the safari is "mini". If Apple is working with Google, which they are, that functinality isn't out of the realm of possibility for Safari on iPhone.
    01-15-2007 07:18 PM
  12. surur's Avatar
    I thought being web/AJAX based there were no 'versions' for each browser. Is there a special version for Firefox also?

    Surur
    01-15-2007 08:35 PM
  13. kmrivers's Avatar
    I thought being web/AJAX based there were no 'versions' for each browser. Is there a special version for Firefox also?

    Surur
    http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?i...icture2mh5.png

    You tell me. Each browser handles code differently. Which is why a web developer is supposed to test them all. I don't know if there was google docs for Safari before the iPhone announcement. I never used it. Maybe there wasn't and no the development has begun for a Mac and iPhone version that works. I really don't know.

    But it is clearly coming at least for the Safari on the Mac. If Safari on iPhone is the same sans Java I don't see why Google Docs wouldnt work and since Google is working with Apple maybe that is something they could collaborate on.

    EDIT: For the record it does work by adding &browserok=true like it says. What bugs need work I don't know. But I made a document. And since it is Ajax based an it is a browser I don't understand how you can it can't handle it. That really makes no sense. But again I don't know the details of the bugs they need to work out. How about you backup your statement with some details other than "I heard".

    http://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?i...icture3ve7.png
    01-15-2007 08:39 PM
  14. bruckwine's Avatar
    will the iPhone allow codecs apart from those Apple pushes?? One reason i skipped the video iPod...TCMP is great as I can play anything under the sun I've tried sof far...but I guess that's the nerd in me who'll want to put twice as many movies on my harddrive than Apple's DRM will allow! At least they didn't make that mistake with the iPod!
    01-15-2007 09:00 PM
  15. bruckwine's Avatar
    P.S. Are ppl really already editing docs ONLINE (separate issue apart form the iPhone - perhaps this needs a new topic) but I'm too paranoid for that..having Google be able to see my email is on thing....
    01-15-2007 09:02 PM
  16. kmrivers's Avatar
    will the iPhone allow codecs apart from those Apple pushes?? One reason i skipped the video iPod...TCMP is great as I can play anything under the sun I've tried sof far...but I guess that's the nerd in me who'll want to put twice as many movies on my harddrive than Apple's DRM will allow! At least they didn't make that mistake with the iPod!
    You will get Mpeg4 and H.264. You will just have to reencode your preexisting files to ones the iPhone will play much like the iPod today. So to answer your question, you will be limited to the codecs Apple wants you to use.

    Personally I am not a big video person. And when I do watch things. I get them bulk on BT and convert them with a script. There are also iPod version of videos all over the place. I believe google video offers them up like that as well.

    I won't buy iTunes stuff, music or video, until they offer lossless tracks and HD video.

    From Apple.com (This is for the iPod with Video but I am sure the codecs will stay the same.)

    Video formats supported: H.264 video, up to 1.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per sec., Low-Complexity version of the H.264 Baseline Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48 kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; H.264 video, up to 768 Kbps, 320 by 240 pixels, 30 frames per sec., Baseline Profile up to Level 1.3 with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48 kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; MPEG-4 video, up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per sec., Simple Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48 kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats
    01-15-2007 09:32 PM
  17. surur's Avatar
    How about you backup your statement with some details other than "I heard".
    Because AJAX is very resource intensive. Doing it on a mobile processor with acceptable speed is also very hard. Its not something that will be helped by a graphics accelerator, but requires a heavy weight browser. And a full features browser with a full DOM is resource intensive.

    We shall see, but like most of Job's claims it will probably be bunk too.

    Surur
    01-16-2007 02:45 AM
  18. Convert#IM's Avatar
    Without 3rd party apps, I wouldn't even consider it. Some of my most used apps are SplashID, Doc2Go, and HandyShopper, which without some equivalent, I wouldn't even consider a switch, no matter how cool.....
    No Third-Party Applications for the iPhone
    http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=12729

    Deal killer. :evil:
    01-16-2007 03:13 PM
  19. Convert#IM's Avatar
    Without 3rd party apps, I wouldn't even consider it. Some of my most used apps are SplashID, Doc2Go, and HandyShopper, which without some equivalent, I wouldn't even consider a switch, no matter how cool.....
    ....and let's not forget the dictionary - need to look up all those BIG words.

    After all of the discussion about 3rd party apps here at TC, the iPhone will be for the quintessential phone/media user.....and those with deep pockets who can afford another essential device.
    01-19-2007 02:05 PM
  20. MacUser's Avatar
    I read that there WILL be 3rd party apps...just not open for anyone to write. They will have to go through a screening process for Apple to verify their stability. That actually sounds pretty good, as I like a device that just works.

    At least that's what I read...
    01-20-2007 11:02 AM
  21. bruckwine's Avatar
    You will get Mpeg4 and H.264. You will just have to reencode your preexisting files to ones the iPhone will play much like the iPod today. So to answer your question, you will be limited to the codecs Apple wants you to use.

    Personally I am not a big video person. And when I do watch things. I get them bulk on BT and convert them with a script. There are also iPod version of videos all over the place. I believe google video offers them up like that as well.

    I won't buy iTunes stuff, music or video, until they offer lossless tracks and HD video.

    From Apple.com (This is for the iPod with Video but I am sure the codecs will stay the same.)
    my dear kmrivers have you ever ripped video much less recode it? I have and believe me if it's one thign I appreciate it's progs like BSplayer, and media player alternative that play almost anything! I think this has ALWAYS been a problem with both apple and microsoft - ppl using their players have to download codecs hacks etc..but to each their own but I can appreciate TCMP for their integration of all codecs...
    01-20-2007 11:11 AM
  22. Convert#IM's Avatar
    I read that there WILL be 3rd party apps...just not open for anyone to write. They will have to go through a screening process for Apple to verify their stability. That actually sounds pretty good, as I like a device that just works.

    At least that's what I read...
    Link? ????????????????
    01-20-2007 01:12 PM
  23. Mtreosexual's Avatar
    Thing i hate about iphone.

    I cannot buy it this month .
    01-20-2007 02:41 PM
  24. MacUser's Avatar
    I read it while at the Apple store this week. I'll see if I can find it...I should have emailed the link to myself :/
    01-20-2007 04:49 PM
  25. SCP_DRUMS's Avatar
    Show me a dumb phone without at least voice tags.

    Surur
    fantastic point.
    01-22-2007 05:48 AM
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