Microsoft just brought Windows to the Mac, iPhone, and iPad, but not how you might think

EdwinG

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You see that wasn’t hard. Visual studio is a Microsoft property, don’t know why it took 4 posts just to admit it.
I never said that Visual Studio wasn’t a Microsoft property.

I said that Visual Studio isn’t Visual Basic.
I never asked to wait 5 years, I said it will replace classic computing in the next 5 years. But even having said that iOS/macOS has already eclipsed windows in Canada. It already happened.

You should define mobile and tablet on those charts. It’s pretty ambiguous. But hasn’t mobile already beaten desktop in the blue visual chart from stat counter. The top part you chose to omit. That’s pretty sad.
That same number is in the graph… so I didn’t omit it. I provided a detailed view for both periods - the top doesn’t update based on the selected year (and iOS only allows a limited amount of information on a given screen).
IMG_4126.png

macOS is considered as a traditional/desktop operating system, on the same page as Windows and Linux.

iOS, Android, Windows Phone, Symbian, BlackBerry are mobile.

Tablet is iPadOS, Android, BlackBerry, webOS.


Also, you’re the one that said that traditional computing will be replaced in 5 years. Hence, why I suggested to wait 5 years.
You changed your username

Sure ed enjoy the rest of the day.
If it helps you sleep at night, yes I changed it.

But I changed it everywhere I could and used my old username, not just iMore.
 

FFR

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I never said that Visual Studio wasn’t a Microsoft property.

I said that Visual Studio isn’t Visual Basic.

That same number is in the graph… so I didn’t omit it. I provided a detailed view for both periods - the top doesn’t update based on the selected year (and iOS only allows a limited amount of information on a given screen).
View attachment 133309

macOS is considered as a traditional/desktop operating system, on the same page as Windows and Linux.

iOS, Android, Windows Phone, Symbian, BlackBerry are mobile.

Tablet is iPadOS, Android, BlackBerry, webOS.


Also, you’re the one that said that traditional computing will be replaced in 5 years. Hence, why I suggested to wait 5 years.

If it helps you sleep at night, yes I changed it.

But I changed it everywhere I could and used my old username, not just iMore.

You never said it was. Check your first post mentioning it.

I was looking at the global stat
03219c0abfb4f8ce4462e1dd78c7a340.jpg


I said classic computing will be replaced by spatial and mobile computing in the next 5 years as you can see other than North America and South America that has already happened globally. Spatial computing will take a big chunk of the desktop market once it is released.

That’s cold ed
 

EdwinG

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You never said it was. Check your first post mentioning it.


IMG_4128.jpeg
While I didn’t mention explicitly that Visual Basic is a Microsoft property, I was replying to the app part of your question.

Visual Basic is not an app. It’s a programming language that you can program with in Visual Studio.

I wasn’t disputing Microsoft’s ownership over VB.
I was looking at the global stat
03219c0abfb4f8ce4462e1dd78c7a340.jpg


I said classic computing will be replaced by spatial and mobile computing in the next 5 years as you can see other than North America and South America that has already happened globally.
Oh, I’m not disputing that mobile computing overtook desktop computing at a global level. It definitely did.

However, you have used numbers for Canada as an argument to say that iOS overtook the desktop computing scene, which it didn’t (in Canada itself).

You simply can’t apply Canadian numbers globally, and you cannot do the opposite either. We are included in the global numbers, proportionally to our respective device population. Basically, Canada is as much the centre of the World as the USA, in the sense that it is not the centre at all.
Spatial computing will take a big chunk of the desktop market once it is released.
That remains to be seen. It could or it couldn’t.

The Meta Quest Pro tried and failed.
That’s cold ed
[Humour] It’s okay, I’m going to sleep okay in my -30° winter climate. 😆[/Humour]
 

FFR

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View attachment 133310
While I didn’t mention explicitly that Visual Basic is a Microsoft property, I was replying to the app part of your question.

Visual Basic is not an app. It’s a programming language that you can program with in Visual Studio.

I wasn’t disputing Microsoft’s ownership over VB.

Oh, I’m not disputing that mobile computing overtook desktop computing at a global level. It definitely did.

However, you have used numbers for Canada as an argument to say that iOS overtook the desktop computing scene, which it didn’t (in Canada itself).

You simply can’t apply Canadian numbers globally, and you cannot do the opposite either. We are included in the global numbers, proportionally to our respective device population. Basically, Canada is as much the centre of the World as the USA, in the sense that it is not the centre at all.

That remains to be seen. It could or it couldn’t.

The Meta Quest Pro tried and failed.

[Humour] It’s okay, I’m going to sleep okay in my -30° winter climate. [/Humour]


Just look at the post before that
7c8631d8b0e9398ae53ed54296cd196a.jpg


Talking about 3d party apps, you brought up the visual app and didn’t mention it was done by Microsoft . It’s right there.


I said iOS and Mac OS have already surpassed windows in Canada and it has.
e3abb26a08e89e25dd9c99f9ecfd8332.png


Ios alone is about 6% behind.

Meta quest pro was mostly vr and the metaverse, metathey have no idea what they are doing and the metaverse is now dead.

Head of vr at meta and a bunch of other executives quit right after the Apple Vision Pro launch. So did the head of xr at Microsoft and google. Samsung scrapped what ever they were doing and announced they would ship something 6months to a year after the vison pro launches. They need the device to copy it

And the head of ar at meta just quit.
198483c06a2539b70a168e20b8dcea26.png


Head of google xr quits
e5905ac71400cb6d54331d4eddc9d1ab.png


Enjoy your igloo.
 
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EdwinG

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Just look at the post before that
7c8631d8b0e9398ae53ed54296cd196a.jpg


Talking about 3d party apps, you brought up the visual app and didn’t mention it was done by Microsoft . It’s right there.
You never mentioned 3rd party apps. You simply mentioned legacy x86 apps, and programming software.

Visual Studio does meet the criteria of being programming software (Integrated Development Environment), and being legacy (Win32 app), so I used it as an example.
I said iOS and Mac OS have already surpassed windows in Canada and it has.

Ios alone is about 6% behind.
While you did indeed say that, you're also talking about mobile market share.
iOS and macOS are not in the same market; the former is a mobile OS and the latter is a desktop operating system.

The day that everyone can do on iOS (on-device with no external processing) everything that everyone can do on macOS/Windows, we can lump iOS and macOS them together.
That day hasn't arrived, and it will not be tomorrow - unless hell freezes over, which it can given Apple decided to implement RCS support even if it previously said it wouldn't.

Meta quest pro was mostly vr and the metaverse, metathey have no idea what they are doing and the metaverse is now dead.

Head of vr at meta and a bunch of other executives quit right after the Apple Vision Pro launch. So did the head of xr at Microsoft and google. Samsung scrapped what ever they were doing and announced they would ship something 6months to a year after the vison pro launches. They need the device to copy it
Apple Vision Pro has not yet been launched; it was only announced. I know you want to spend money to buy one, but you will have to wait for it.

Please provide your definition of spatial computing, because everything I find, including Wikipedia, tends to include all three of these categories: augmented, mixed and virtual. There's HoloLens, HoloLens 2, Google Glass that tried the entreprise market and also didn't succeed.

I'm categorizing spatial computing into a wait-and-see bucket. I'm not saying it won't happen, I'm saying that we don't know.
 

FFR

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You never mentioned 3rd party apps. You simply mentioned legacy x86 apps, and programming software.

Visual Studio does meet the criteria of being programming software (Integrated Development Environment), and being legacy (Win32 app), so I used it as an example.

While you did indeed say that, you're also talking about mobile market share.
iOS and macOS are not in the same market; the former is a mobile OS and the latter is a desktop operating system.

The day that everyone can do on iOS (on-device with no external processing) everything that everyone can do on macOS/Windows, we can lump iOS and macOS them together.
That day hasn't arrived, and it will not be tomorrow - unless hell freezes over, which it can given Apple decided to implement RCS support even if it previously said it wouldn't.


Apple Vision Pro has not yet been launched; it was only announced. I know you want to spend money to buy one, but you will have to wait for it.

Please provide your definition of spatial computing, because everything I find, including Wikipedia, tends to include all three of these categories: augmented, mixed and virtual. There's HoloLens, HoloLens 2, Google Glass that tried the entreprise market and also didn't succeed.

I'm categorizing spatial computing into a wait-and-see bucket. I'm not saying it won't happen, I'm saying that we don't know.

Indeed I did go back to post number 12 . “Third party app developers.”

Yes mobile market eclipsing classic computing. I have stated that on numerous posts.

Both Mac OS and iPad Os/ios are used by consumers for their computing needs so it’s more than fair game.

Sure but that would be a small list of users. Most consumers don’t need the iPad or iPhone to do what a classic computer does just the basics. Probably why Apple sells 35-40 million iPads a year.

Indeed it was only announced and yet every head of ar/vr from Microsoft, meta, and google have quit/fired. And Samsung has scrapped their version and are in a holding pattern until Apple releases the vison pro.

Again the writing on the wall. But I guess some still cannot see.
 

EdwinG

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Indeed I did go back to post number 12 . “Third party app developers.”
Yeah, after I provided Visual Studio as an example.

You can’t rewrite a timeline.
Yes mobile market eclipsing classic computing. I have stated that on numerous posts.
I didn’t dispute that fact, on a World scale.
Both Mac OS and iPad Os/ios are used by consumers for their computing needs so it’s more than fair game.
You can’t add them up until they have complete use case parity. Currently, you can’t do software development on iOS.

Also, because this thread is about the Windows app, that’s not for consumers. Unless you know a way for a consumer to justify $49.10/month for a Windows 365 subscription.

Indeed it was only announced and yet every head of ar/vr from Microsoft, meta, and google have quit/fired. And Samsung has scrapped their version and are in a holding pattern until Apple releases the vison pro.
Doesn’t mean Apple will succeed where others have failed.

Apple has its own list of failures, like the G4 Cube, AirPower, MacBook (2015) to name three.
 

FFR

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Yeah, after I provided Visual Studio as an example.

You can’t rewrite a timeline.

I didn’t dispute that fact, on a World scale.

You can’t add them up until they have complete use case parity. Currently, you can’t do software development on iOS.

Also, because this thread is about the Windows app, that’s not for consumers. Unless you know a way for a consumer to justify $49.10/month for a Windows 365 subscription.


Doesn’t mean Apple will succeed where others have failed.

Apple has its own list of failures, like the G4 Cube, AirPower, MacBook (2015) to name three.

It’s not about rewriting a timeline, it’s common sense . Third party apps are legacy apps, Ofcourse Microsoft is going to rewrite their apps for arm.
This feels like the “inflation” all over again ed, you dug quite a hole there.

Software development is a tiny niche, iPads can easily replace classic computing for a majority of consumers and already has in a lot of cases, and is starting to take hold in the enterprise, next step is spatial computing killing the classic desktop.


You are right windows isn’t for consumers , Microsoft and satya look to be moving focus away from windows and forward to ai. Makes sense.

Actually that’s exactly what it means; the Mac, iPod, iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, AirPods, AirTags. The list goes on and on. Apple vison pro is next, they already killed the ar/vr industry, as posted above those in charge have already quit, what they had already scrapped.



29ae2bfb9b458b924b3eecaea07f6ecc.png

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What failures?
the MacBook and the g4 cube generated extensive sales. At the time I actually had a power Mac g4 and a g4 cube which was a precursor for the Mac mini.

AirPower never shipped, Apple replaced it with MagSafe .
 

EdwinG

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It’s not about rewriting a timeline, it’s common sense . Third party apps are legacy apps, Ofcourse Microsoft is going to rewrite their apps for arm.
We definitely don’t have the same definition of legacy apps.

For me, a legacy app on Windows is one that uses Win32 APIs, so stuff like Paint and Visual Studio qualify. As well as third-party apps like Notepad++. That set of APIs trace their lineage all the way back to the Windows 3.x days in the early 1990s.

That’s in opposition to Universal Windows Platform apps like 3D Paint or Apple Music, which came into being in the early 2010s.

Of note, as far as I know, Win32 is not deprecated on arm64.
This feels like the “inflation” all over again ed, you dug quite a hole there.
Oh, I just stopped posting because it was going nowhere. We would have the same arguments over and over again.
Software development is a tiny niche, iPads can easily replace classic computing for a majority of consumers and already has in a lot of cases, and is starting to take hold in the enterprise, next step is spatial computing killing the classic desktop.
I do agree that software development is a niche. The common consumer can get away with a Chromebook (not that they are good devices).

They can even get away with a pen and paper.
You are right windows isn’t for consumers , Microsoft and satya look to be moving focus away from windows and forward to ai. Makes sense.
Yeah… that’s why they launched a Windows entreprise subscription called Windows 365.
What failures?

the MacBook and the g4 cube generated extensive sales. At the time I actually had a power Mac g4 and a g4 cube which was a precursor for the Mac mini.
That’s why Apple has never updated the MacBook, right? They released it in 2015, and never updated it.

AirPower never launched, but it was a failure to launch a product.

The point being is that not everything Apple touches will be a success
 

FFR

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We definitely don’t have the same definition of legacy apps.

For me, a legacy app on Windows is one that uses Win32 APIs, so stuff like Paint and Visual Studio qualify. As well as third-party apps like Notepad++. That set of APIs trace their lineage all the way back to the Windows 3.x days in the early 1990s.

That’s in opposition to Universal Windows Platform apps like 3D Paint or Apple Music, which came into being in the early 2010s.

Of note, as far as I know, Win32 is not deprecated on arm64.

Oh, I just stopped posting because it was going nowhere. We would have the same arguments over and over again.

I do agree that software development is a niche. The common consumer can get away with a Chromebook (not that they are good devices).

They can even get away with a pen and paper.

Yeah… that’s why they launched a Windows entreprise subscription called Windows 365.

That’s why Apple has never updated the MacBook, right? They released it in 2015, and never updated it.

AirPower never launched, but it was a failure to launch a product.

The point being is that not everything Apple touches will be a success

To you legacy apps are apps that Microsoft wrote. Ok.

I don’t think anyone is using windows exclusively for notepad.


Sure, except what you were posting proves you wrong.


Sure they could except no one is buying chromebooks anymore. You seem to be ignoring sales, maybe because it doesn’t fit your argument. Sure they could get away with pen and paper, wonder why consumers are buying iPads instead. Must be a total mystery.

I didn’t realize 365 was only for the enterprise and not meant for the general consumer, makes total sense now why they only have 40 million subscribers and Microsoft layed off many from their consumer division.

Apple consolidated their consumer MacBook line to the MacBook Air.

Can’t call it a failure just because Apple decided magnets were more important and pivoted to MagSafe.


If all you have is an unreleased product as an example of failure you don’t really have much ed.

Most of what Apple releases has not only been a success but changed the industry for the last 47 years. Where have you been ed .
 

EdwinG

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To you legacy apps are apps that Microsoft wrote. Ok.

I don’t think anyone is using windows exclusively for notepad.
Win32 is a set of APIs that allow to interact with the OS, like creating windows, accessing files, network access, etc.

Win32 is the equivalent of Cocoa.
Sure, except what you were posting proves you wrong.
No, it isn’t.

I made the argument that apps are moving to arm64 even on Windows.
Sure they could except no one is buying chromebooks anymore. You seem to be ignoring sales, maybe because it doesn’t fit your argument. Sure they could get away with pen and paper, wonder why consumers are buying iPads instead. Must be a total mystery.
That must be why worldwide tablet usage dropped from 4% in October 2018 to 1.7% in October 2023.

You still haven’t provided a compelling argument to consider iOS and iPadOS in desktop computing. To do so, one must be able to do on those devices their work, irrespective of how niche it could be.
I didn’t realize 365 was only for the enterprise and not meant for the general consumer, makes total sense now why they only have 40 million subscribers and Microsoft layed off many from their consumer division.
Windows 365 is only for the entreprise. I provided you the entry level $40/month price.

It’s not the same product as Microsoft 365, which has a consumer subscription for Excel, Outlook, PowerPoint, Word, et al.
Apple consolidated their consumer MacBook line to the MacBook Air.
The MacBook failed because it had a single USB type C port, not even Thunderbolt-capable. Also, it ran on Intel Core m CPUs, which were highly underpowered.

Can’t call it a failure just because Apple decided magnets were more important and pivoted to MagSafe.
They weren’t able to launch it because it was overheating, or so the reports go.

They pivoted onto MagSafe, and I can say that it was the correct decision.
Most of what Apple releases has not only been a success but changed the industry for the last 47 years.
Apple did have a huge influence on consumer electronics, there is no disputing. But it’s a fallacy to call everything they touch a success.

Here are three other examples that I completely forgot about. The 2013 Mac Pro, that had no updates until 2019. MobileMe that Steve Jobs called a piece of right after launch because it crashed. Ping that’s now in the Apple graveyard.
- - -
Note: This has gone off-topic too much, so unless there is a reply specific to the remote access Windows app, I’m not going to be replying to your posts. That’s because the discussion is not going anywhere.
 
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phlamethrowre

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And the winner, by TKO, is EdwinG!!! Great scrap fellas. FFR, next time don’t change your story multiple time and you might have a chance.
 

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