Just for fun: Don't you think Apple should unlock that Phone and drop the suit?

[Engr Aamir Khan Niazi]

After all that action is to be taken against criminal so Apple should help FBI.
What do you guys think guys?
May be I am wrong but still I think this way.

 

[Highrisedrifter]

I think what Apple did was great and I support them 100% in not caving in to the FBI.

This isn't really a 'Just for fun' question either; it's one of erosion of privacy.

And the question that people usually trot out in defence of this is "if you aren't doing anything wrong, why should you care?" This is a disingenuous question usually used by people who haven't thought very far ahead.

Well, I care because it's my privacy. I am currently in the UK where we have more CCTV cameras per capita than any other country in the world and our government wants to go further by forcing our ISPs/cell phone carriers to store every email, text message and phone call data and every single page we visit when online, for a minimum of a year.

Imagine that this goes through, next it will be CCTV cameras on every corner 'for your safety'. Data recorders in each vehicle (starting to happen now) that log each and every trip you make, length, speed, starting and finishing locations and each stop you make. You can extrapolate it further to a ridiculous level by saying next they will be putting cameras in your home. After all, what if you suffer a home invasion? This would be a quick and easy way for us to identify the robbers, right? Right? If you aren't doing anything wrong, why are you afraid?

What the Apple case is, is the start of a long and slippery slope down into an Orwellian society where everything you do is logged. Imagine personalised adverts targeted specifically at you when you pass a neon billboard. You've seen Minority Report, right? That sounds like hell to me.

People have the right to privacy in any forward thinking society.

"Relying on the government to protect your privacy is like asking a peeping tom to install your window blinds."
- John Perry Barlow

 

[Ledsteplin]

And it's not just the government to worry about. When the technology gets into the hands of bad guys, that's where the real problems begin.

 

[Just_Me_D]

It's one thing to have Apple unlock the device, but it's another thing for them to explain to the FBI how they unlocked it, and therein lies the problem. It's easy for people to say that, "if you're not a terrorist/criminal then there's nothing for you to worry about", yet, if those people somehow left their devices at a restaurant, which happens often, knowledge of how to unlock an iCloud protected device would be quite beneficial to a thief because it would allow him or her to make the device his or her own as we'll as have access to all of the previous owner's data therein. I personally do not have faith in our government to safeguard that procedure, especially in today's America., but that Just Me, D...

 

[Sherry_B]

I think what Apple did was great and I support them 100% in not caving in to the FBI.

This isn't really a 'Just for fun' question either; it's one of erosion of privacy.

"Relying on the government to protect your privacy is like asking a peeping tom to install your window blinds."
- John Perry Barlow

And it's not just the government to worry about. When the technology gets into the hands of bad guys, that's where the real problems begin.

It's one thing to have Apple unlock the device, but it's another thing for them to explain to the FBI how they unlocked it, and therein lies the problem.

100% Agreed.

 

[Aquila]

I would not support Apple taking any measure to unlock it or to enable anyone else to unlock it. What I would support is Apple remotely bricking the device in some way that makes the data completely unrecoverable (as in more than just a factory reset) to prevent breach access. Apple did a good thing by making sure they didn't possess any keys that would allow them mass access and reversing that position would be a mistake.

 

[Quis89]

I think what Apple did was great and I support them 100% in not caving in to the FBI.

This isn't really a 'Just for fun' question either; it's one of erosion of privacy.

And the question that people usually trot out in defence of this is "if you aren't doing anything wrong, why should you care?" This is a disingenuous question usually used by people who haven't thought very far ahead.

Well, I care because it's my privacy. I am currently in the UK where we have more CCTV cameras per capita than any other country in the world and our government wants to go further by forcing our ISPs/cell phone carriers to store every email, text message and phone call data and every single page we visit when online, for a minimum of a year.

Imagine that this goes through, next it will be CCTV cameras on every corner 'for your safety'. Data recorders in each vehicle (starting to happen now) that log each and every trip you make, length, speed, starting and finishing locations and each stop you make. You can extrapolate it further to a ridiculous level by saying next they will be putting cameras in your home. After all, what if you suffer a home invasion? This would be a quick and easy way for us to identify the robbers, right? Right? If you aren't doing anything wrong, why are you afraid?

What the Apple case is, is the start of a long and slippery slope down into an Orwellian society where everything you do is logged. Imagine personalised adverts targeted specifically at you when you pass a neon billboard. You've seen Minority Report, right? That sounds like hell to me.

People have the right to privacy in any forward thinking society.

"Relying on the government to protect your privacy is like asking a peeping tom to install your window blinds."
- John Perry Barlow

Can the FBI not already snoop in our bedrooms or our computers with a warrant? I just fail to see how our phones are any different.

 

[Rob Phillips]

Can the FBI not already snoop in our bedrooms or our computers with a warrant? I just fail to see how our phones are any different.

The FBI searching a bedroom with a warrant or snooping through an unlocked computer is different than asking for a backdoor to be created to compromise the security of a private device like an iPhone.
If the computer were locked and the FBI had to go to Apple to ask them to break into it, it would be no different than the iPhone situation.

 

[Quis89]

The FBI searching a bedroom with a warrant or snooping through an unlocked computer is different than asking for a backdoor to be created to compromise the security of a private device like an iPhone.
If the computer were locked and the FBI had to go to Apple to ask them to break into it, it would be no different than the iPhone situation.

That is true.

 

[Sherry_B]

The FBI searching a bedroom with a warrant or snooping through an unlocked computer is different than asking for a backdoor to be created to compromise the security of a private device like an iPhone.

I am positively floored by the number of people that actually missed that bit.

 

[Rob Phillips]

I am positively floored by the number of people that actually missed that bit.

Me too, Sherry. I'm perfectly fine with the FBI obtaining information on a known terrorist. After all, it's in the name of keeping America safe. The government forcing corporations to comply with ridiculous requests that could ultimately compromise my own privacy--and that of millions of others--I couldn't possibly be more against.

 

[Sherry_B]

Me too, Sherry. I'm perfectly fine with the FBI obtaining information on a known terrorist. After all, it's in the name of keeping America safe. The government forcing corporations to comply with ridiculous requests that could ultimately compromise my own privacy--and that of millions of others--I couldn't possibly be more against.

Agreed, whole heartedly.

 

[Damien_Eternal]

Getting into a unlocked device or even property with a warrant on a single instance is entirely different t than creating a method to crack or invade everything of anyone's at anytime.

One is getting info on a known criminal or person of interest who is known to have a connection, the other is gaining access to everything of everyone's just simply because they could do something wrong.

One is a known, the other is an assumption and a gross invasion of privacy.

 

[Aquila]

Can the FBI not already snoop in our bedrooms or our computers with a warrant? I just fail to see how our phones are any different.

Getting a warrant and obtaining legal access would be akin to the FBI asking the owner for access and/or using force to breach it if they couldn't get permission. In this particular case, and possibly the most mind-boggling part, there's almost no reason to ask for the warrant to begin with - because this was a device that they were reasonably certain had no information on it that would be pertinent to the investigation and they were not going to be prosecuting the owner, because the owner was deceased.

What the FBI is asking for, in your analogy, is a copy of the key to every home in the world, just in case they might need it someday. Or if they can't have a key, they'd at least like the contractors of every new home in the world to build in a "secret" tunnel that goes from outside the dwelling to the inside so they can sneak in at will. And then we'd have to assume/hope that no one else will ever find out where these tunnels or keys are and abuse them.

 

[Rob Phillips]

Getting a warrant and obtaining legal access would be akin to the FBI asking the owner for access and/or using force to breach it if they couldn't get permission. In this particular case, and possibly the most mind-boggling part, there's almost no reason to ask for the warrant to begin with - because this was a device that they were reasonably certain had no information on it that would be pertinent to the investigation and they were not going to be prosecuting the owner, because the owner was deceased.

What the FBI is asking for, in your analogy, is a copy of the key to every home in the world, just in case they might need it someday. Or if they can't have a key, they'd at least like the contractors of every new home in the world to build in a "secret" tunnel that goes from outside the dwelling to the inside so they can sneak in at will. And then we'd have to assume/hope that no one else will ever find out where these tunnels or keys are and abuse them.

^^^^^THIS^^^^^

 

[Sherry_B]

Getting a warrant and obtaining legal access would be akin to the FBI asking the owner for access and/or using force to breach it if they couldn't get permission. In this particular case, and possibly the most mind-boggling part, there's almost no reason to ask for the warrant to begin with - because this was a device that they were reasonably certain had no information on it that would be pertinent to the investigation and they were not going to be prosecuting the owner, because the owner was deceased.

What the FBI is asking for, in your analogy, is a copy of the key to every home in the world, just in case they might need it someday. Or if they can't have a key, they'd at least like the contractors of every new home in the world to build in a "secret" tunnel that goes from outside the dwelling to the inside so they can sneak in at will. And then we'd have to assume/hope that no one else will ever find out where these tunnels or keys are and abuse them.

Outstanding analogy... very, very well said. :yes: