iPhone 7+ to iPhone X (not impressed)

[doogald]

I've had several tap and pay cards for. years; they are slowly being added. However, an advantage to Apple Pay (and Android Pay) and the reason I will always use it over my card is that Apple Pay uses a virtual card number, so the retailer never gets the real one. If the retailer's pay systems are hacked and details are recovered, they won't get my card's real number.

Chip and signature (and even chip and PIN) is nowhere near as fast as tap and pay and slower than swiping. However, it is not true that all cards in the US are chip and signature - Target, for example, issues a Mastercard that is chip and PIN.

I still find Touch ID with the iPhone better than Apple Watch for tap and pay. Nothing to tap and it's a one handed operation; just hold the phone with my thumb on the home button. And some terminals are rather high so lifting my wrist is awkward compared with lifting the end of my phone. Still, complaining about that one extra Face ID step is like complaining the extra two digits Apple started suggesting for unlock PINs (yes, I know that you can change the options back to 4 digit, but I ma sure that more than 90% of people don't even know or bother making the switch.)

Another minor issue with Face ID I didn't mention is that with Touch ID I could add my wife's thumb as an unlock, so she could use my phone if there was some reason to. We definitely cannot do that (at least not yet) with Face ID.

 

[msm0511]

Genuine question - are contactless bank cards widely available in the US? Where I am, they are fairly universal. I have several. This is the real competition to Apple and Android Pay, and in my experience the bank cards are winning by a wide margin. It's very common here for people to keep a bank card in their iPhone case. To pay they still wave their phone at a terminal but they don't give a cut to the middle man (Apple or Google).



The issue is not how fast face ID is. It's whether it is convenient to use in a contactless payment situation.

I have 8 credit cards and a debit card, but none of them are contactless. They all require either to insert the chip or swipe the magnetic strip. They all have chips, and I've noticed more and more places in the US are finally activating their chip systems.

I honestly can't wait until the day all I need is my Apple Watch for payment. I haven't regularly carried cash in more years than I can remember, and I'd rather not carry cards either.

 

[anony_mouse]

To quickly reply to some points above...
- It's not only Apple Pay that uses virtual card numbers. Some contactless and chip card deployments use them too. I can't comment on the US situation, but anything is better than a magnetic strip.
- Chip and PIN is growing in the US. I am increasingly asked to put my non-US chip and PIN cards directly in the terminal and enter a PIN - in fact I usually try to do this myself rather than handing over my card to be swiped. What is the point of chip and signature? It does exist elsewhere in the world, but only for people who can't use a PIN for some reason. Although they exist, I don't think I have any seen such a card in use.
- The face ID issue is a real one for Apple Pay. It is less convenient than touch ID or using a contactless bank card. Maybe the usage scenarios are different to the US. Where I live, contactless payments tend to be used for short transactions such a buying a coffee or entering or leaving a public transport system. Pausing to use face ID in these crowded situations is really not a good option.
- I can't speak for the US, but in general I remain sceptical about mobile phone payments. I spend time in countries where contactless payments are so widespread as to be the normal way to pay for small transactions. Apple and Android Pay are widely available, and I know they work because I've tried them. But I literally never see them used on a day to day basis - people always use contactless bank cards. Including me - they are simply easier.

 

[Rob Phillips]

To quickly reply to some points above...
- It's not only Apple Pay that uses virtual card numbers. Some contactless and chip card deployments use them too. I can't comment on the US situation, but anything is better than a magnetic strip.
- Chip and PIN is growing in the US. I am increasingly asked to put my non-US chip and PIN cards directly in the terminal and enter a PIN - in fact I usually try to do this myself rather than handing over my card to be swiped. What is the point of chip and signature? It does exist elsewhere in the world, but only for people who can't use a PIN for some reason. Although they exist, I don't think I have any seen such a card in use.
- The face ID issue is a real one for Apple Pay. It is less convenient than touch ID or using a contactless bank card. Maybe the usage scenarios are different to the US. Where I live, contactless payments tend to be used for short transactions such a buying a coffee or entering or leaving a public transport system. Pausing to use face ID in these crowded situations is really not a good option.
- I can't speak for the US, but in general I remain sceptical about mobile phone payments. I spend time in countries where contactless payments are so widespread as to be the normal way to pay for small transactions. Apple and Android Pay are widely available, and I know they work because I've tried them. But I literally never see them used on a day to day basis - people always use contactless bank cards. Including me - they are simply easier.

Many merchant terminals are compatible with chip and PIN but its nearly impossible to find a credit card issuer that offers chip and PIN in the US. So it’s not a hard “no” when it comes to chip and PIN in the US but it might as well be.
The benefit of chip and signature over the magnetic strip is additional security in case the merchant is hacked. Obviously that offers no value if your credit card is lost or stolen.

 

[doogald]

- I can't speak for the US, but in general I remain sceptical about mobile phone payments. I spend time in countries where contactless payments are so widespread as to be the normal way to pay for small transactions. Apple and Android Pay are widely available, and I know they work because I've tried them. But I literally never see them used on a day to day basis - people always use contactless bank cards. Including me - they are simply easier.

Another clear advantage of mobile-based tap to pay over cards: a lost/stolen card can still be used as tap to pay until the card is reported stolen. Not a lost/stolen phone; not a lost/stolen watch. I don't find tap to pay cards any easier; I have to remove my wallet, open it, take out the card, tap it, out it back in my wallet, put my wallet back in my pocket. That's exactly the same effort to me as take out my phone, double-tap the button, look at my phone, tap it, put it back in my pocket. And the watch, if you use it, is arguably easier - double tap without even looking and raise your arm. Nothing to take out of your pocket.

I have no idea if mobile device payments will grow, but they are surely being used enough to be here to stay.

What is the point of chip and signature?

I have never read a single good explanation. The good news is that signature is going away for good. (I did notice when I was in Europe last fall that retailers were annoyed when I used my chip and signature card; one more piece of paper that they had to deal with, one more thing to slow down the transaction.)

 

[Chuck_IV]

Personally, I think face ID is a nice thing, but it is not more natural than the prior fingerprint id.

With the fingerprint ID, as I pick up the phone, I have my thumb on the scanner. By the time it gets to my face, it's already unlocked. With the face ID, when it gets to my face I have to wait a second or so if it works right, longer and more maneuvering if it doesn't.

Plus with the figerprinter scanner, I can reach over, touch the scanner and unlock my screen without having to even pick up the phone.

Same goes for Apple pay. With the fingerprint scanner, as I pull the phone out of my pocket, I'd have my thumb on the reader holding the button and by the time it's out of my pocket, its ready for payment. With the face unlock, I have to pull it out, then stare at it and then it was finally ready.

No way is face ID more convenient than the fingerprint reader was.

 

[mogelijk]

- The face ID issue is a real one for Apple Pay. It is less convenient than touch ID or using a contactless bank card. Maybe the usage scenarios are different to the US. Where I live, contactless payments tend to be used for short transactions such a buying a coffee or entering or leaving a public transport system. Pausing to use face ID in these crowded situations is really not a good option.

I don't understand why you need to pause before using Apple Pay with FaceID. Personally, I've found it quicker and easier with FaceID than I ever did with TouchID -- and I've been using Apple/Android Pay for around 5 years with an FPS, before Apple came out with Apple Pay. Personally, I tap the power button twice to pull up Apple Pay, then glance at the phone and it is unlocked, and I do that prior to when I need to put the phone up to the reader. I always found myself needing to adjust my grip on my phone, or use my other hand, to hit the FPS on my iPhone (always had Plus sized phones). I can now much more easily do it one handed and without having to try to adjust my grip on my phone.

 

[anony_mouse]

I don't understand why you need to pause before using Apple Pay with FaceID. Personally, I've found it quicker and easier with FaceID than I ever did with TouchID -- and I've been using Apple/Android Pay for around 5 years with an FPS, before Apple came out with Apple Pay. Personally, I tap the power button twice to pull up Apple Pay, then glance at the phone and it is unlocked, and I do that prior to when I need to put the phone up to the reader. I always found myself needing to adjust my grip on my phone, or use my other hand, to hit the FPS on my iPhone (always had Plus sized phones). I can now much more easily do it one handed and without having to try to adjust my grip on my phone.

It's hard to comment on how individual people use touch ID and face ID. But it's also irrelevant for payments in most of the world. The competition for payments is not between touch ID and face ID, or between Apple and Android. The fight is against contactless bank cards, which are now more or less universal in many countries, and which are hugely more convenient to use than phones because they don't require any authorisation. You can argue about the security implications of this, but in reality it doesn't seem to be a problem (and in the theoretical worst case, losses are limited to around EUR 20-30).

From what I see, phone payments are hardly used in countries with contactless bank cards. This is all about convenience, so if Apple and Google want to be in the contactless payments game they have to make their solutions as convenient as a bank card.

BTW, for those who say that it's more effort to get a card out of a wallet than to switch on an authenticate with a phone - a very common solution here is to put a contactless card in your phone's case (cases with suitable slots are widely available), and then touch the phone on the reader.

 

[Raptor007]

The X has been fine, but I do miss the larger sized device when using it, my wife still has a 6S Plus and won't upgrade due to the lack of headphone jack and the fake home button. Eventually she will have to upgrade to a version with no touch ID but I am likely going to prod her to an 8 Plus in the fall.

 

[Wildo6882]

The X has been fine, but I do miss the larger sized device when using it, my wife still has a 6S Plus and won't upgrade due to the lack of headphone jack and the fake home button. Eventually she will have to upgrade to a version with no touch ID but I am likely going to prod her to an 8 Plus in the fall.

While I've liked my X, I actually plan on selling it and seeing if I can hunt down an 8 Plus to last me for about the next year. I miss the larger size (came from a 6s Plus) and some of the information in the status bar. I also am not 110% sold on FID. I know it's the future, but there are some quirks and annoyances that I have with it that I didn't have with TID on my 6s Plus.