1. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Forget 3rd party apps...

    The biggest disappointment for me is a tiny feature: you can't copy and paste!!!

    Have an appointment with embedded text that was imported from my calendar. It has lots of info including teleconference dial-in info. The phone didn't recognize it as a phone number to dial. So I go into edit mode to grab the number... but, wait... that's right, there is no way to "grab" a number (or any text for that matter) on the iPhone!

    It's quite snazzy though ;-)
    Yes, the lack of copy and paste is a bummer.

    It is slick, though. If I needed just the PMP functions, I would get one (I expect a phoneless one will come out in Nov.)
    07-03-2007 04:32 PM
  2. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Not true. You can sync the iphone on more then one computer. I sync my music with one computer and my calander and contacts with another. You just have to uncheck auto sync and check sync only checked items. It works great.
    Boiler,

    Thanks for the info! It appears you have first hand experience with the iPhone.

    So I need iTunes on each computer, but can selectively sync categrories of stuff.

    And the two iTunes instances have no issue synching to the iPhone (unlike a regular iPod which is locked to it's iTunes client).
    07-03-2007 04:36 PM
  3. cmaier's Avatar
    mikec-

    I use outlook too. That is, it's installed on the desktop and my laptop, and the two outlooks are constantly kept in synch using plaxo. (Plaxo provides a toolbar/plugin for outlook). It works really really well. Any change made anywhere is mirrored at each copy of outlook (as well as my google calendar/gmail).

    I started using plaxo when i was using my palm to synch to outlook, but wanted to use google calendar/gmail for my daily email/calendaring activities.

    In short, I think you are pretty much in the same situation I am in, and I think this will solve your problem (assuming you a copy of outlook on the machine on which you keep your music - that will be the computer you will use for iphone sync).

    -cliff
    07-03-2007 04:38 PM
  4. ohbw's Avatar
    ohbw, this is not a way to conduct a conversation. As far as I can see, you're the only one leveling insults in this discussion.
    It's not a conversation, Silverado, it's a crowd of goatherders screeching about how wonderful it is to make love to a goat. And I think things like "you sound faaaaaabulous" qualify as insulting. But I don't remember ever agreeing not to insult stupidity. I stopped in a couple of days ago to marvel at the fact that people were carrying on so about a product that (a) had only been out for 36 hours, (b) most of them hadn't used. Most of what I've heard here is so deeply moronic it's astonishing.

    Those who've actually used the iPhone have some intelligent things to say -- "I can't cut and paste", "I can't attach a photo to an email I'm replying to" -- useful information for you and me as users and Apple as a company who wants to perfect a product.

    Those who haven't are screeching about how f*cked up Apple is because it didn't set up a one-button sync for someone with 2TB of data on multiple computers (!), or because the product is elegant, or because it doesn't run on a 3G network that isn't fully up to speed in the marketplace yet. You have people going bonkers because somebody somewhere -- an infinitesimal minority of the half million people who bought one in two days -- couldn't activate his iPhone instantly. How many people spent weeks, as I did, trying to debug the battery issues on a 680? Roughly every single person who bought one, that's how many. Go back and read the forums.

    You have people reciting reviews as gospel when they haven't touched an iPhone. What's the point of that? It's meaningless information. Did Mossberg, Pogue, Levy, or Baig say "friggin' email don't work!" No, someone blogged it on engadget, and now we should nuke Cupertino.

    You can't explain calculus to a monkey, and you can't interest goatherders in rosy pink women. I have been vividly reminded of that here, and I hereby retire.

    But before I go: I made the offer to Surur, and I'll extend it to anyone who wants to take me up on it: "Let's do this: let's both deposit $100,000 in an escrow account with a legal agreement attached to it. I'll bet you that in five years, assuming the absence of a nuclear war or worldwide depression, Apple's stock will have increased 500% from where it is today -- as a direct result of massive cell phone sales and the attendant increase in sales of Macs and all other things Apple. If it is, I'll take the money. If it isn't, you take the money."

    Then I richened it, and I'll extend that as well to anyone who wants to take me up on it: "Want an alternate bet? Palm in bankruptcy, acquired for its tax value as a massive loss, or non-existent in five years. Afraid of that one, too? How about relative market share of OSX and Windows in five years? Find one you like, and put your money where your mouth is."

    Apple's market share of cell phones relative to every one else in five years? Modify it any way you like. If people are going to hold something in their hands and interact with it all day long, ease of use, stable software, intuitive software, and pleasing design will rule the day. It's a very tiny percentage of people who need to be able to fly an F-22 remotely from their cel phones (roughly the same number as men who prefer goats to rosy pink women.) You don't sell 100,000,000 iPods because people think it's chi-chi. You sell them because it works reliably and people love using it.

    Anyone who wants to sign an escrow agreement can reach me via email if you'd like to do something more than screech. Until then, apprciez vos chvres (et le coin), guys.
    07-03-2007 04:40 PM
  5. dstrauss#IM's Avatar
    ...But before I go: I made the offer to Surur, and I'll extend it to anyone who wants to take me up on it: "Let's do this: let's both deposit $100,000 in an escrow account with a legal agreement attached to it. I'll bet you that in five years, assuming the absence of a nuclear war or worldwide depression, Apple's stock will have increased 500% from where it is today -- as a direct result of massive cell phone sales and the attendant increase in sales of Macs and all other things Apple. If it is, I'll take the money. If it isn't, you take the money."...
    You might talk to this lady, she's got an unused $100,000 to invest...
    http://www.myfoxdfw.com/myfox/pages/...d=1.1.1&sflg=1
    07-03-2007 04:55 PM
  6. mikec#IM's Avatar
    It's not a conversation, Silverado, it's a crowd of goatherders screeching about how wonderful it is to make love to a goat. And I think things like "you sound faaaaaabulous" qualify as insulting. But I don't remember ever agreeing not to insult stupidity. I stopped in a couple of days ago to marvel at the fact that people were carrying on so about a product that (a) had only been out for 36 hours, (b) most of them hadn't used. Most of what I've heard here is so deeply moronic it's astonishing.

    Those who've actually used the iPhone have some intelligent things to say -- "I can't cut and paste", "I can't attach a photo to an email I'm replying to" -- useful information for you and me as users and Apple as a company who wants to perfect a product.

    Those who haven't are screeching about how f*cked up Apple is because it didn't set up a one-button sync for someone with 2TB of data on multiple computers (!), or because the product is elegant, or because it doesn't run on a 3G network that isn't fully up to speed in the marketplace yet. You have people going bonkers because somebody somewhere -- an infinitesimal minority of the half million people who bought one in two days -- couldn't activate his iPhone instantly. How many people spent weeks, as I did, trying to debug the battery issues on a 680? Roughly every single person who bought one, that's how many. Go back and read the forums.

    You have people reciting reviews as gospel when they haven't touched an iPhone. What's the point of that? It's meaningless information. Did Mossberg, Pogue, Levy, or Baig say "friggin' email don't work!" No, someone blogged it on engadget, and now we should nuke Cupertino.

    You can't explain calculus to a monkey, and you can't interest goatherders in rosy pink women. I have been vividly reminded of that here, and I hereby retire.

    But before I go: I made the offer to Surur, and I'll extend it to anyone who wants to take me up on it: "Let's do this: let's both deposit $100,000 in an escrow account with a legal agreement attached to it. I'll bet you that in five years, assuming the absence of a nuclear war or worldwide depression, Apple's stock will have increased 500% from where it is today -- as a direct result of massive cell phone sales and the attendant increase in sales of Macs and all other things Apple. If it is, I'll take the money. If it isn't, you take the money."

    Then I richened it, and I'll extend that as well to anyone who wants to take me up on it: "Want an alternate bet? Palm in bankruptcy, acquired for its tax value as a massive loss, or non-existent in five years. Afraid of that one, too? How about relative market share of OSX and Windows in five years? Find one you like, and put your money where your mouth is."

    Apple's market share of cell phones relative to every one else in five years? Modify it any way you like. If people are going to hold something in their hands and interact with it all day long, ease of use, stable software, intuitive software, and pleasing design will rule the day. It's a very tiny percentage of people who need to be able to fly an F-22 remotely from their cel phones (roughly the same number as men who prefer goats to rosy pink women.) You don't sell 100,000,000 iPods because people think it's chi-chi. You sell them because it works reliably and people love using it.

    Anyone who wants to sign an escrow agreement can reach me via email if you'd like to do something more than screech. Until then, apprciez vos chvres (et le coin), guys.
    Goodbye and good riddance. As they say in the hood, save the drama for your mama.

    FYI, you don't have $100,000, but I will take an honor bet; I don't think Apple stock will hit $600 a share on 7/2/2012.

    I agree Palm may be bankrupt.

    I don't think the desktop share for OSX or Windows will change much.
    07-03-2007 04:58 PM
  7. AnteL0pe's Avatar
    This is not true..all Apple's marketing, and all the keynoted have been egared to comparng this phone with smartphones, from the infamous spec chart down. Jobs wants a piece of corporate america - it;s where the big phone device contracts are. He already had mass america via the iPod but he is going for it all, slowly but surely! Just the price alone implies they want the bigwigs to get them too and eventually, as they upgrade no doubt to increase functionality, hope it replaces companies like Palm in the corporate field.
    This is not a corporate phone, it has never been marketed as one either, in fact you cant even get it on corporate plans. It doesnt work with Exchange, it isnt a smartphone, it isnt a corporate phone...
    07-03-2007 05:28 PM
  8. mikec#IM's Avatar
    This is not a corporate phone, it has never been marketed as one either, in fact you cant even get it on corporate plans. It doesnt work with Exchange, it isnt a smartphone, it isnt a corporate phone...
    Well, that really isn't true...Jobs compared it to the smartphones/corporate phones in use today (Treo, BB, Nokia).

    It's obvious he's saying "get this instead of a old-school tactile device".

    I think we all know the consumer market Apple is after, but let's not ignore that taking a chunk away from Palm, RIM and Nokia was not on thier agenda.

    Anyway, I can't wait for version 2, 3, and 4, once all the kinks are worked out.

    Maybe I will just switch to a Mac and be done once and for all...
    07-03-2007 06:06 PM
  9. braj's Avatar
    It seems some who have bought the iPhone want to minimize any shortcomings just because they want to like the phone probably more than they actually do. We'll see in 6 months I guess how many are still in ecstasy and how many have sobered up a bit and want more functionality.
    07-03-2007 06:20 PM
  10. CountBuggula's Avatar
    You can't explain calculus to a monkey, and you can't interest goatherders in rosy pink women. I have been vividly reminded of that here, and I hereby retire.
    Good riddance. Be gone and take your lousy and tactless analogies with you.

    But before I go: I made the offer to Surur, and I'll extend it to anyone who wants to take me up on it: "Let's do this: let's both deposit $100,000 in an escrow account with a legal agreement attached to it. I'll bet you that in five years, assuming the absence of a nuclear war or worldwide depression, Apple's stock will have increased 500% from where it is today -- as a direct result of massive cell phone sales and the attendant increase in sales of Macs and all other things Apple. If it is, I'll take the money. If it isn't, you take the money."

    Then I richened it, and I'll extend that as well to anyone who wants to take me up on it: "Want an alternate bet? Palm in bankruptcy, acquired for its tax value as a massive loss, or non-existent in five years. Afraid of that one, too? How about relative market share of OSX and Windows in five years? Find one you like, and put your money where your mouth is."

    Apple's market share of cell phones relative to every one else in five years? Modify it any way you like. If people are going to hold something in their hands and interact with it all day long, ease of use, stable software, intuitive software, and pleasing design will rule the day. It's a very tiny percentage of people who need to be able to fly an F-22 remotely from their cel phones (roughly the same number as men who prefer goats to rosy pink women.) You don't sell 100,000,000 iPods because people think it's chi-chi. You sell them because it works reliably and people love using it.

    Anyone who wants to sign an escrow agreement can reach me via email if you'd like to do something more than screech. Until then, apprciez vos chvres (et le coin), guys.
    We've been over this before. Nobody here is arguing that the iPhone won't sell. It'll sell for the same reasons iPods sell: the ignorant masses will buy it. They'll buy into its sleek UI because they don't need a smartphone. They'll buy it because almost anything Apple makes has become a fashion accessory more than a piece of technology. Apple's stock will soar, but not because they have the best phone on the market. They just have the best marketing.
    07-03-2007 06:22 PM
  11. oalvarez's Avatar
    It seems some who have bought the iPhone want to minimize any shortcomings just because they want to like the phone probably more than they actually do. We'll see in 6 months I guess how many are still in ecstasy and how many have sobered up a bit and want more functionality.
    Braj, given that you don't own one, please tell us the owners of one (who more likely than not bought one to actually give it a real try) what shortcomings there are that we want to minimize. maybe they are shortcomings to you and that's ok.
    07-03-2007 06:25 PM
  12. cmaier's Avatar
    Yeah, we get it. The iphone isn't as great as its strongest promoters claim, nor is it as bad as its strongest critics suggest. It is not every phone to every person. It does some things well and other things poorly. Other phones are undoubtedly better for some people, whereas the iphone is best for other people. It has the potential to be much better through firmware updates, which may or may not arrive, but other improvements will require new hardware spins. It either is or is not a smartphone depending on how you decide to define that term. It was almost certainly overhyped, although in some aspects it was worthy of the hype. In 3 years every other phone company will be out of business, or everyone will have become fed up with their iphones and returned them in disgust.

    Can we move on now?
    07-03-2007 06:26 PM
  13. silverado's Avatar
    We've been over this before. Nobody here is arguing that the iPhone won't sell. It'll sell for the same reasons iPods sell: the ignorant masses will buy it. They'll buy into its sleek UI because they don't need a smartphone. They'll buy it because almost anything Apple makes has become a fashion accessory more than a piece of technology. Apple's stock will soar, but not because they have the best phone on the market. They just have the best marketing.
    I take exception to the "ignorant masses" comment. MANY tech-savvy customers buy Apple products including iPods and now iPhones. Sleek UIs are not a bad thing nor do they have no value. In fact we as a species place a lot of value on beauty. I am deep in technology in my professional life, and I've used (and sometimes programmed) Palm devices from day one all the way to the latest Treo. However I find that I have as much enthusiasm for the iPhone as I had for the first PalmPilot. I've reached a point in my life where I want simplicity and elegance outside of professional life, and the iPhone seem to deliver it so far (still early for a full verdict though). If I want to do more, I don't have to go more than a few feet before I hit a computer or a laptop where I can do it better. The pendulum keeps swinging and at this point in time I am fed up with the powerful, overly complex, high maintenance smart phone and I am all for one that does a few things very well and gives me beauty and simplicity. I might find myself buying an MacBook next... who knows.
    07-03-2007 07:14 PM
  14. braj's Avatar
    Braj, given that you don't own one, please tell us the owners of one (who more likely than not bought one to actually give it a real try) what shortcomings there are that we want to minimize. maybe they are shortcomings to you and that's ok.
    I hope you have a long happy experience with your iPhone. If it does everything you want in a phone then great. I personally would want more for the money, but then I'm not looking for an 'icebreaker' or a fashion statement. I need to get on chat to do my business at the very least, that one is big enough to be a deal breaker all by itself. I don't need to 'actually give it a real try' to know that.

    The thing that sucks is that it doesn't have to be this way, but it IMO is through a lack of concern for the user that we have no 3rd party apps. Think about this a bit. You guys say stability and security are the reasons but that is CRAP. It is UNIX. It has true multitasking. Security and stability are why Apple chose UNIX. If a crappy app crashes, just like on a Mac it shouldn't bring down the system. If it does what the hell is the use of OS X then?

    To me the argument that it is good that there are no 3rd party apps is like saying you would buy a speed-limited Ferrari that only goes 70mph. I don't want that car, give me the un-neutered version that can go 210!

    The potential for a truly revolutionary phone is there but business decisions, not technical limitations or real security issues are keeping it from being truly great.
    07-03-2007 08:44 PM
  15. oalvarez's Avatar
    +1 Silverado...thanks
    07-03-2007 08:55 PM
  16. oalvarez's Avatar
    I hope you have a long happy experience with your iPhone. If it does everything you want in a phone then great. I.

    it doesn't do everything that I want it to, that's just it....as i've said, it will not replace my Blackberry Pearl for my business needs. what some of you don't understand is that's ok for some of us to actually find some value in the iPhone, over and beyond what we might else carry. some might want it because they ONLY need what it has to offer and they prefer it's form-factor and user experience beyond that of what they've been carrying. it might not be for you and the next person, but i'm not sure i understand all of the hate for it. what i don't understand (excluding cost) is how some person who ONLY needs a phone, simple email, internet and music would choose to buy a Treo over some less bulky and modern form factor.
    07-03-2007 09:04 PM
  17. oalvarez's Avatar
    but then I'm not looking for an 'icebreaker' or a fashion statement. I need to get on chat to do my business at the very least, that one is big enough to be a deal breaker all by itself. I don't need to 'actually give it a real try' to know that.

    but it IMO is through a lack of concern for the user that we have no 3rd party apps. Think about this a bit.

    To me the argument that it is good that there are no 3rd party apps is like saying you would buy a speed-limited Ferrari that only goes 70mph. I don't want that car, give me the un-neutered version that can go 210!

    he potential for a truly revolutionary phone is there but business decisions, not technical limitations or real security issues are keeping it from being truly great
    icebreaker or fashion statement: the Treo wasn't considered such years ago? but i dismiss that just as most others probably do too.

    you need chat? it has SMS....not good enough i suppose? maybe they'll release something to your liking in soon time

    3rd party apps? again, if the user wanted them they'd buy something else....this is for the person who probably doesn't have such a need and can wait out future introductions.

    it is a revolutionary device in certain respects. the innovative interface and the incredible user experience (most everyone would agree) does set it apart from the rest. that's enough reason for many to purchase the device.

    whatever


    bcaslis was right
    07-03-2007 09:13 PM
  18. braj's Avatar
    I don't hate the iPhone. That would be silly. I just want to see it become truly a great platform. My cat should be neutered, not my computer (the iPhone is a computer). And for $600 I don't want to have to maintain another smartphone as well to do things the iPhone could easily do. No chat? You're kidding me right? It couldn't be because ATT wanted to get people to use SMS instead @ $.15 a pop after your 200 messages are exhausted (why no option for unlimited messaging?). Lots of little decisions like this pervade the iPhone design. Really, really, really, the users are getting a bit screwed and you are all smiling.
    07-03-2007 09:15 PM
  19. CountBuggula's Avatar
    it doesn't do everything that I want it to, that's just it....as i've said, it will not replace my Blackberry Pearl for my business needs. what some of you don't understand is that's ok for some of us to actually find some value in the iPhone, over and beyond what we might else carry. some might want it because they ONLY need what it has to offer and they prefer it's form-factor and user experience beyond that of what they've been carrying. it might not be for you and the next person, but i'm not sure i understand all of the hate for it. what i don't understand (excluding cost) is how some person who ONLY needs a phone, simple email, internet and music would choose to buy a Treo over some less bulky and modern form factor.
    So...you're ok with carrying 2 phones around everywhere? Between the iPhone and the Foleo the whole idea of convergence is being lost...

    I completely agree though that for the user who has only basic phone needs the iPhone would be great...if the price was cut in half and it wasn't locked to AT&T that is.

    But when you can get the same funcions from a $50 feature phone it's really hard to justify the $600 price tag. If money is no object though or the pretty GUI is really worth it to you, then I hope you have a long and happy relationship with it.
    07-03-2007 09:52 PM
  20. oalvarez's Avatar
    So...you're ok with carrying 2 phones around everywhere? Between the iPhone and the Foleo the whole idea of convergence is being lost...

    I completely agree though that for the user who has only basic phone needs the iPhone would be great...if the price was cut in half and it wasn't locked to AT&T that is.

    But when you can get the same funcions from a $50 feature phone it's really hard to justify the $600 price tag. If money is no object though or the pretty GUI is really worth it to you, then I hope you have a long and happy relationship with it.
    no, don't be silly. i don't carry two phones on my person although some do. i might carry the iPhone after work, or on the weekends, or on vacation travel.

    no, that's where you go wrong. the price of the iPhone is a barrier for you (whether you can afford it or not, i don't care). and that's fine! but i think apple has proven that with over 500,000 in sales that some consumers are less price sensitive than you.

    i can buy a $1k automobile that will take me from point A to point B" because i can afford to and not because money is "no object" but perhaps that's too difficult a concept for you to understand.

    thanks for your kind wishes.
    07-03-2007 10:20 PM
  21. bruckwine's Avatar
    This is not a corporate phone, it has never been marketed as one either, in fact you cant even get it on corporate plans. It doesnt work with Exchange, it isnt a smartphone, it isnt a corporate phone...
    So what do you consider marketing? Is it a poster saying "the iPhone is a smartphone" or otoh "the iPhone is not a smartphone"? Can you tell from teh Apple marketing ads with PC and Mac guy that Apple is saying t ppl Windows sucks and they should buy macs instead? Or are you denying it all simply because you like Apple? The marketing of the iPhone has nothing to do with what it actually IS, but it ahs everything to do with what Steve Jobs % co want it to be to their target audience. Jobs compared the iPhone to phones with QWERTY keyboards, had his company do a spec sheet comparing it to N95 and others in the smartphone category (no Razrs or SE walkmans) and they went out of their way to advertise business-friendly features like PUSH IMAP, and that it did support Exchange with a server setting (check your info).
    07-03-2007 10:22 PM
  22. MacUser's Avatar
    I take exception to the "ignorant masses" comment.
    Can I get an "Amen!"? That sums it up exactly.


    I am fed up with the powerful, overly complex, high maintenance smart phone and I am all for one that does a few things very well and gives me beauty and simplicity. I might find myself buying an MacBook next... who knows.
    This is a very smart man...or woman. I started out on PC's with DOS and I've seen the light. Once you go Mac, you never go back.
    07-03-2007 10:25 PM
  23. oalvarez's Avatar
    the beautiful 680....what everyone wanted, right? and what did this thing cost full retail? and it came with an "off button." pretty funny, right? two can play the same game and provided to show how silly this game can be.

    from Palm

    What’s in it for you? Everything.
    Phone, email, messaging, Web, photos,
    and music—all of it easy to use
    Say hello to the Palm TreoTM 680 smart device. It’s your phone along with email,
    messaging, and Web access1. Not to mention your contacts, calendar, photos,
    and songs. Sounds like a lot. And it is. But everything’s so easy to learn that you’ll
    actually use it. Even better, the Treo 680 smart device is just the right size, with a
    large touchscreen and an easy-type keyboard. Which means you have the freedom
    to take it anywhere and still be connected to friends, work, and family2. Of course,
    there’s also something called an “off” button, for when you don’t want to be
    connected at all.
    07-03-2007 10:49 PM
  24. CountBuggula's Avatar
    no, that's where you go wrong. the price of the iPhone is a barrier for you (whether you can afford it or not, i don't care). and that's fine! but i think apple has proven that with over 500,000 in sales that some consumers are less price sensitive than you.

    i can buy a $1k automobile that will take me from point A to point B" because i can afford to and not because money is "no object" but perhaps that's too difficult a concept for you to understand.
    I understand what you're getting at, and have been through the car analogy already in this thread (or a similar one somewhere around here). I don't have a problem with spending more money for a reliable car, or even one with some extra bells and whisles. But I would never buy a premium luxury car. That doesn't make them horrible cars, and that doesn't mean other people won't buy them and enjoy them. But if I can get a much less expensive car that's still dependable, has built-in GPS, bluetooth, and MP3 player, I will. Especially when that luxury car omits those extra features, yet the people who buy it rave about how nice it is to have air conditioning.
    07-03-2007 11:35 PM
  25. MacUser's Avatar
    I understand what you're getting at, and have been through the car analogy already in this thread (or a similar one somewhere around here). I don't have a problem with spending more money for a reliable car, or even one with some extra bells and whisles. But I would never buy a premium luxury car. That doesn't make them horrible cars, and that doesn't mean other people won't buy them and enjoy them. But if I can get a much less expensive car that's still dependable, has built-in GPS, bluetooth, and MP3 player, I will. Especially when that luxury car omits those extra features, yet the people who buy it rave about how nice it is to have air conditioning.
    Do you have an iPod? A media player? I'm curious what you would pay for each of them.
    07-03-2007 11:39 PM
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