1. dstrauss#IM's Avatar
    I think many people are trying to compare the iPhone to a smartphone which isn't fair. The iPhone isn't a smartphone and it isn't meant to be.
    This one bothers me because I've seen it again and again at many different sites. It was JOBS, not the press, that compared it to the Moto Q, Blackberry, Palm Treo, and Nokia smartphones in his keynote. There is no escaping the smartphone tag. Not that it is all bad, because it looks like a successful product. But you can't dodge the comparison.
    07-03-2007 10:01 AM
  2. AnteL0pe's Avatar
    just because steve says something doesnt make it so. Its widely accepted in the tech press that the iphone is not a smartphone.
    07-03-2007 10:32 AM
  3. CountBuggula's Avatar
    This one bothers me because I've seen it again and again at many different sites. It was JOBS, not the press, that compared it to the Moto Q, Blackberry, Palm Treo, and Nokia smartphones in his keynote. There is no escaping the smartphone tag. Not that it is all bad, because it looks like a successful product. But you can't dodge the comparison.
    IMO, it's got the same problem the Foleo does (looks like a laptop, priced like a laptop, but...isn't a laptop?). The iPhone looks like a smartphone, is priced like (more than) a smartphone, but we're not supposed to compare it to a smartphone because it's a feature phone. And then we get into the discussion of "well, it's a good idea, if only the price came down from $600 to under $200..."

    Wow...the similarities are striking.
    07-03-2007 11:08 AM
  4. mikec#IM's Avatar
    After reading the Engadget review, it looks like email functions are worse than expected.

    The more I learn about this, the more I want to wait until rev 2 (but I still have to admit, it's slick.)

    The other thing is I took a "snapshot" of my task in a day that I do on my Treo (no audio or video entertainment, just good old "work" stuff" - email, calendar, todo, messaging, etc..)

    When I compared the list to the iPhone, I realized that I take a lot of stuff for granted on the Treo 700wx. It was eye-opening.
    07-03-2007 12:22 PM
  5. ohbw's Avatar
    I just spent two hours waiting for someone in a doctor's office. I browsed the web almost continuously (on a full web page, not some stilted mobile version, and using my full set of bookmarks, which the iPhone grabbed from my Macbook Pro the first time I synced it), sent and received emails, made and received calls, made adjustments to my calendar, ordered a bluetooth headset for my iPhone over the web, sent photos of a recent trip to Italy to about thirty people, made some notes about a book project I'm working on, created a Google map and driving instructions for a friend of mine from Chicago who wants nice roads between there and Steamboat Springs, and sent it to him (while saving it on my iPhone just in case he loses it).
    Oh yeah, I watched part of a movie on YouTube, too.

    Not a hitch in any of it, and the web speed was as fast as my cable modem at home.

    And boy did I have fun doing it.

    And my battery was at about 85% when I hit the street, after two hours of nonstop use.

    Golly but this phone seems smart to me.
    07-03-2007 12:30 PM
  6. ohbw's Avatar
    After reading the Engadget review, it looks like email functions are worse than expected.
    Why don't you try actually holding and using the product? I'm almost 4 days in, with hundreds of emails flawlessly received and pushed to my iPhone -- faster than they pushed to my Treo.

    Email matters to me, for business and personal reasons. If it wasn't working perfectly on my iPhone, I'd be saying so on the forums. What's the point of taking second-hand information and touting it as gospel? If someone told you Scarlett Johanson was lousy in bed, would you end the investigation there?
    07-03-2007 12:34 PM
  7. bruckwine's Avatar
    Personally....I'd never buy an iPhone or an iPod. I have bought iPods for others because I know they need the sheer simplicity of it over other features. I've used Macs and with them finally using multi button mice, they're pretty good. Could never stand that single button all the way back to my Mac Plus in college.

    I could care less about bashing the iPhone and praising anything else. It has its good points and its bad points. Is it revolutionary? I'll say it is to the point where it just may kick the other manufacturers in the *** which I think is sorely needed seeing all the crap that is out there in the market. I like some of the nice features it has and would like to see them incorporated in other smartphones. I think if they keep it crippled, other companies will have a chance to catch up really quick and only improve on products that are already better than the iPhone in some ways. This industry is not the DAP industry, and they will not have the lions share of the market to the point where they almost dictate it or drive it.
    Agreed. I hope it gives them teh Mother of all kicks!
    I think you're just looking at it from a "glass is half empty" point of view. Apple never intended to take on the smartphones, it's like looking at a harley and saying "it's so neutered, just think what it could have been had they made it a hummer." It's meant to be a phone, a phone that is better than any other phone, one that takes what most other phones already do and do it leaps and bounds better. This is exactly what it does, it just so happens that it does some of these things so much better than any phone that it also outdoes most smartphones.
    This is not true..all Apple's marketing, and all the keynoted have been egared to comparng this phone with smartphones, from the infamous spec chart down. Jobs wants a piece of corporate america - it;s where the big phone device contracts are. He already had mass america via the iPod but he is going for it all, slowly but surely! Just the price alone implies they want the bigwigs to get them too and eventually, as they upgrade no doubt to increase functionality, hope it replaces companies like Palm in the corporate field.
    07-03-2007 12:44 PM
  8. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Why don't you try actually holding and using the product? I'm almost 4 days in, with hundreds of emails flawlessly received and pushed to my iPhone -- faster than they pushed to my Treo.

    Email matters to me, for business and personal reasons. If it wasn't working perfectly on my iPhone, I'd be saying so on the forums. What's the point of taking second-hand information and touting it as gospel? If someone told you Scarlett Johanson was lousy in bed, would you end the investigation there?
    Cool your jets, Rhett...

    I have used one, but only for about 10 min or so, so not enough to configure and do all the email functions I need to do.

    Obviously, email use varies - do you have to delete 40 emails at a time? Doing it individually is a pain.

    I am sure it delivers email fine...maybe your should read the review before fronting.
    07-03-2007 12:53 PM
  9. ohbw's Avatar
    Cool your jets, Rhett...

    I have used one, but only for about 10 min or so, so not enough to configure and do all the email functions I need to do.

    Obviously, email use varies - do you have to delete 40 emails at a time? Doing it individually is a pain.

    I am sure it delivers email fine...maybe your should read the review before fronting.
    I've read the review, Prissy (oh, look it up: http://imdb.com/title/tt0031381/). It doesn't jibe with my experience, therefore I'm not reposting it all over the web as if it were the definitive analysis of the iPhone's email performance. I wrote a post about my actual real-world experience with the device, which might actually be of use to someone trying to make an intelligent decision.

    There are various ways of managing emails, in blocks and individually, which you would know if you used the device before posting second-hand summary judgments on it.
    07-03-2007 01:18 PM
  10. mikec#IM's Avatar
    I've read the review, Prissy (oh, look it up: http://imdb.com/title/tt0031381/). It doesn't jibe with my experience, therefore I'm not reposting it all over the web as if it were the definitive analysis of the iPhone's email performance. I wrote a post about my actual real-world experience with the device, which might actually be of use to someone trying to make an intelligent decision.

    There are various ways of managing emails, in blocks and individually, which you would know if you used the device before posting second-hand summary judgments on it.
    Prissy? You sound faaaaabulous.

    Again, email experiences vary. I did not see your in-depth email review, but would be glad to read it.

    I have also talked first hand with people who own an iPhone and they confirm the shortcomings. They still like it, but the email app is lacking (for med-to heavy email users).
    07-03-2007 01:48 PM
  11. silverado's Avatar
    Calm down folks I believe all of us want to do the same things, but as is always the case in life, there will always be disagreements, personal preferences and prejudices. We all benefit most if we keep an open mind and be indifferent to others' opinions of our opinions.

    I've loved my Treos and I'm loving my iPhone. Everyone knows both have deficiencies. Use what you like and share knowledge.
    07-03-2007 01:48 PM
  12. mikec#IM's Avatar
    I just realized an overlooked issue I would have with the iPhone...

    Everything syncs through iTunes...

    Hmm...well, my iTunes library is on one computer; I sync my iPods to that.

    My main laptop is where my contacts and calendar are...I have iTunes installed (for Quicktime), but it doesn't have my library.

    Guess that means I will be entering contacts manually if I got it...and no synching of calendar and contacts, since they reside on two different machines.

    Our course, I would put my iTunes library on my laptop..except it's over 2TB!

    Nice going, Apple.
    07-03-2007 01:54 PM
  13. ohbw's Avatar
    I just realized an overlooked issue I would have with the iPhone...

    Everything syncs through iTunes...

    Hmm...well, my iTunes library is on one computer; I sync my iPods to that.

    My main laptop is where my contacts and calendar are...I have iTunes installed (for Quicktime), but it doesn't have my library.

    Guess that means I will be entering contacts manually if I got it...and no synching of calendar and contacts, since they reside on two different machines.

    Our course, I would put my iTunes library on my laptop..except it's over 2GB!

    Nice going, Apple.
    Makes perfect sense -- Apple are idiots because you're poorly organized and don't have room on your laptop hard drive for 2G of music.

    What year was the laptop made, 1996? I have 80G of music on my laptop, and 88G free. But when all 200G are filled up, I won't be blaming Apple for it. It's MY hard drive.

    And Mike? It's not a first-hand account if you're saying "so-and-so told me so-and-so". That's a second hand account. In court it's called hearsay, and they don't allow it, because it's meaningless. A first-hand account is, "I used it for email and it did xyz."

    If you need me to spell that out with a bigger crayon, I can't help you. You just need to proceed directly to http://elephant.pcinpact.com/images/bd/avatar/66850.jpg
    07-03-2007 02:06 PM
  14. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Makes perfect sense -- Apple are idiots because you're poorly organized and don't have room on your laptop hard drive for 2G of music.

    What year was the laptop made, 1996? I have 80G of music on my laptop, and 88G free. But when all 200G are filled up, I won't be blaming Apple for it. It's MY hard drive.

    And Mike? It's not a first-hand account if you're saying "so-and-so told me so-and-so". That's a second hand account. In court it's called hearsay, and they don't allow it, because it's meaningless. A first-hand account is, "I used it for email and it did xyz."

    If you need me to spell that out with a bigger crayon, I can't help you. You just need to proceed directly to http://elephant.pcinpact.com/images/bd/avatar/66850.jpg
    Sorry...I meant 2TB (Terabytes, not GB).

    Tell me how to put 2TB of audio and video on my laptop. I think Apple assume it's all on one device presents issues.

    Please respond again with your solution. Please avoid insults.
    07-03-2007 02:17 PM
  15. ohbw's Avatar
    07-03-2007 02:19 PM
  16. CountBuggula's Avatar
    Wow, way to avoid the insults. Again, we see what ohbw resorts to when he's unable to continue his side of an argument/discussion. You're losing credibility fast, bud.
    07-03-2007 02:37 PM
  17. cmaier's Avatar
    Sorry...I meant 2TB (Terabytes, not GB).

    Tell me how to put 2TB of audio and video on my laptop. I think Apple assume it's all on one device presents issues.

    Please respond again with your solution. Please avoid insults.
    I don't have my iphone yet, so i don't know for sure this works, but here is what I did:

    1) on my laptop, I installed itunes and told it NOT to copy files to the disk when adding to the library
    2) using explorer, navigated to my desktop's disk where the itunes files are stored (after making it shared)
    3) dragged all my files to itunes on the laptop

    It added all the music to the library without copying over any files. I am assuming I can then sync that way.

    As an alternative path I signed up for plaxo (free) and used it to keep my desktop and laptop contacts/calendar in sync. So now I think I have two choices:

    A) use my laptop for the iphone. Problem will be if i add music to my desktop i need to manually add it to my laptop as well (if i want to sync to the iphone). Plus, syncing of music will be slow since it needs to go over the wifi network in my house.

    B) use my desktop for iphone. Doesn't seem to be any problem with this solution. Outlook will always be up-to-date due to plaxo. Also keeps my gmail/google calendar in sync. Seems like a win-win solution.

    In fact, I have two desktops and set up one for me and one for my wife, since it seems itunes may have difficulty syncing two iphones on one pc/account. I put plaxo on both, and told one to sync my data, and one to sync my wife's. (We never use outlook on the desktops, anyway).

    -Cliff
    07-03-2007 02:38 PM
  18. Kupe#WP's Avatar
    I just spent two hours waiting for someone in a doctor's office... I browsed the web... my full set of bookmarks... first time I synced it), sent and received emails, made and received calls, made adjustments to my calendar, ordered a bluetooth headset... sent photos... made some notes... created a Google map and driving instructions ... watched part of a movie on YouTube... Golly but this phone seems smart to me.
    Cool - thanks for validating my $50 Moto Q (or $350 i730, or $299 Treo 700W) which does all of the things you just described plus let me watch shows/movies stored on my Tivo (or just live broadcast TV) using my A2DP-compatible BT stereo headphones and let me use GPS-driven maps on my trip to said doctor's office where I was also able to edit a spreadsheet someone sent me. Luckily I had 3G wireless since my Doctor wouldn't let me on to his secure wifi network.

    According to your account, the iPhone's uniqueness seems to be strictly limited to how it looks. And I agree, it looks great!
    I'm almost 4 days in, with hundreds of emails flawlessly received and pushed to my iPhone -- faster than they pushed to my Treo.
    And you had to delete those hundreds one-at-a-time? Your patience is commendable. Many of the hundreds of emails I get are a waste of space - luckily deleting them in blocks is effortless - even from the deleted folder!
    07-03-2007 02:59 PM
  19. silverado's Avatar
    ohbw, this is not a way to conduct a conversation. As far as I can see, you're the only one leveling insults in this discussion.
    07-03-2007 03:34 PM
  20. silverado's Avatar
    Forget 3rd party apps...

    The biggest disappointment for me is a tiny feature: you can't copy and paste!!!

    Have an appointment with embedded text that was imported from my calendar. It has lots of info including teleconference dial-in info. The phone didn't recognize it as a phone number to dial. So I go into edit mode to grab the number... but, wait... that's right, there is no way to "grab" a number (or any text for that matter) on the iPhone!

    It's quite snazzy though ;-)
    07-03-2007 04:03 PM
  21. cmaier's Avatar
    Supposedly copy/paste is coming very soon (thread in howardforums and blurb on macrumors). Guess we'll see. I'm curious how they'll get the user interface to work given the magnifying glass thingy. Maybe it will require two fingers :-)

    Forget 3rd party apps...

    The biggest disappointment for me is a tiny feature: you can't copy and paste!!!

    Have an appointment with embedded text that was imported from my calendar. It has lots of info including teleconference dial-in info. The phone didn't recognize it as a phone number to dial. So I go into edit mode to grab the number... but, wait... that's right, there is no way to "grab" a number (or any text for that matter) on the iPhone!

    It's quite snazzy though ;-)
    07-03-2007 04:08 PM
  22. silverado's Avatar
    Supposedly copy/paste is coming very soon (thread in howardforums and blurb on macrumors). Guess we'll see. I'm curious how they'll get the user interface to work given the magnifying glass thingy. Maybe it will require two fingers :-)
    Good! What makes sense to me is maybe double tap then drag (on the second tap)... then double tap selected text to choose copy/paste.
    07-03-2007 04:23 PM
  23. boilerjet's Avatar
    Makes perfect sense -- Apple are idiots because you're poorly organized and don't have room on your laptop hard drive for 2G of music.

    What year was the laptop made, 1996? I have 80G of music on my laptop, and 88G free. But when all 200G are filled up, I won't be blaming Apple for it. It's MY hard drive.

    And Mike? It's not a first-hand account if you're saying "so-and-so told me so-and-so". That's a second hand account. In court it's called hearsay, and they don't allow it, because it's meaningless. A first-hand account is, "I used it for email and it did xyz."

    If you need me to spell that out with a bigger crayon, I can't help you. You just need to proceed directly to http://elephant.pcinpact.com/images/bd/avatar/66850.jpg




    Not true. You can sync the iphone on more then one computer. I sync my music with one computer and my calander and contacts with another. You just have to uncheck auto sync and check sync only checked items. It works great.
    07-03-2007 04:28 PM
  24. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Thank you not answering the question and showing how mean you can be.
    07-03-2007 04:28 PM
  25. mikec#IM's Avatar
    I don't have my iphone yet, so i don't know for sure this works, but here is what I did:

    1) on my laptop, I installed itunes and told it NOT to copy files to the disk when adding to the library
    2) using explorer, navigated to my desktop's disk where the itunes files are stored (after making it shared)
    3) dragged all my files to itunes on the laptop

    It added all the music to the library without copying over any files. I am assuming I can then sync that way.

    As an alternative path I signed up for plaxo (free) and used it to keep my desktop and laptop contacts/calendar in sync. So now I think I have two choices:

    A) use my laptop for the iphone. Problem will be if i add music to my desktop i need to manually add it to my laptop as well (if i want to sync to the iphone). Plus, syncing of music will be slow since it needs to go over the wifi network in my house.

    B) use my desktop for iphone. Doesn't seem to be any problem with this solution. Outlook will always be up-to-date due to plaxo. Also keeps my gmail/google calendar in sync. Seems like a win-win solution.

    In fact, I have two desktops and set up one for me and one for my wife, since it seems itunes may have difficulty syncing two iphones on one pc/account. I put plaxo on both, and told one to sync my data, and one to sync my wife's. (We never use outlook on the desktops, anyway).

    -Cliff
    Cliff, thanks for the info. I can see how this could work, but it doesn't address my scenario, as I use Outlook.

    It's refreshing to see someone actually provide a solution instead of acting like an ohbw.
    07-03-2007 04:31 PM
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