Microsoft just brought Windows to the Mac, iPhone, and iPad, but not how you might think

[iMore.com]

Microsoft's new Windows App puts its operating system onto all your Apple devices.

Microsoft just brought Windows to the Mac, iPhone, and iPad, but not how you might think : Read more

 

[FFR]

Does anyone actually want this

 

[Just_Me_D]

My take on this is Windows is becoming a web app. I supposed that’s fine for those who want to run the Windows OS for certain things while maintaining the Mac hardware.

I may tinker with it at some point, but I already know that’s all it will be…tinkering.

 

[naddy69]

"Does anyone actually want this?"

That's what I am wondering. Who is this for? Folks who need a Windows PC already have a Windows PC. Word/Excel/Outlook/Office 365 etc have already been ported to iOS and Android. And these are versions written for small touch screens. Windows and Windows apps are NOT designed for small touch screens.

To me, it feels like Microsoft STILL believes that Windows is central to most people's lives. "What people REALLY want/need is Windows on their iPad".

I can imagine a few die hard Windows geeks getting an iPad just to run this. The on-going pipe dream of "Mobile Windows" and all that.

But the truth is, they would be better served just using the iPad as an iPad. Desktop Windows apps are not going to be particularly useful OR easy to use on a small touch screen.

 

[EdwinG]

This is an app for professionals.

For instance, I manage a Windows server from my Mac, so I do need Microsoft Remote Desktop (or the Windows App) to access the desktop. I could also use PowerShell 7 for remote management.

This is also useful for accessing company ressources in a controlled environment, because it transforms your iPad to being a glorified thin client,

 

[simonmann]

"Microsoft just brought Windows to the Mac, iPhone, and iPad, but not how you might think" its exactly how I think

 

[Lee_Bo]

As a pro a/v installer and integrator, almost all the programming software is Windows based only. So I can see a use for this.

But as Edwin said, this app is for professionals.

 

[FFR]

As a pro a/v installer and integrator, almost all the programming software is Windows based only. So I can see a use for this.

But as Edwin said, this app is for professionals.

Legacy windows based, eg x86.

Wonder what is going to happen to that programming software when windows switches to arm architecture.

 

[EdwinG]

Legacy windows based, eg x86.

Wonder what is going to happen to that programming software when windows switches to arm architecture.

They will migrate to arm64 on Windows. Or run emulated, which is already the case for x86/amd64 on arm64.

Some of them have already done so, like Visual Studio.

 

[FFR]

They will migrate to arm64 on Windows. Or run emulated, which is already the case for x86/amd64 on arm64.

Some of them have already done so, like Visual Studio.

Don’t think they will migrate to arm64, it would be cheaper to migrate to iOS/mac os at this point.

Emulation .

Isn’t Visual Basic a Microsoft app? Guess 3rd party developers aren’t bothering with the transition.

With the launch of windows as an app, Microsoft might be looking to end the surface line, not that it was ever a big seller.

 

[EdwinG]

Don’t think they will migrate to arm64, it would be cheaper to migrate to iOS/mac os at this point.

It’s easier to migrate from x86/amd64 to arm64 than it is to macOS/iOS.

The set of APIs does not change when you change architectures (if you program in a 3rd or higher layer programming language, like C, C++ or Python). They change when you switch platforms.

Isn’t Visual Basic a Microsoft app? Guess 3rd party developers aren’t bothering with the transition.

Visual Studio is Microsoft. Visual Basic is an old programming language.

I can confirm that they are migrating. Photoshop has supported arm64 since 2021: https://helpx.adobe.com/ca/photoshop/kb/windows-arm-support.html

Emulation

.

That’s a transition solution. Both Apple and Microsoft use emulation for amd64 on arm64, that’s what Rosetta 2 basically is.

 

[FFR]

It’s easier to migrate from x86/amd64 to arm64 than it is to macOS/iOS.

The set of APIs does not change when you change architectures (if you program in a 3rd or higher layer programming language, like C, C++ or Python). They change when you switch platforms.


Visual Studio is Microsoft. Visual Basic is an old programming language.

I can confirm that they are migrating. Photoshop has supported arm64 since 2021: https://helpx.adobe.com/ca/photoshop/kb/windows-arm-support.html



That’s a transition solution. Both Apple and Microsoft use emulation for amd64 on arm64, that’s what Rosetta 2 basically is.

Developers didn’t see any point to migrate to arm64 when Microsoft launched its windows on arm surface tablet.

Sure visual studio is Microsoft but so is Visual Basic.


Sure photoshop was paid by Microsoft to transition, just like Microsoft paid developers to write apps for windows mobile, didn’t go anywhere after that.


But most 3rd party developers have not updated their legacy apps to run on windows arm 64 and I suspect most are not going to.

Emulation was terrible on windows arm, one of the biggest complaints were a lack of native legacy apps.
As I mentioned before I believe legacy windows developers will start transitioning apps to iOS and Mac OS instead of windows arm, due to marketshare. Without those legacy apps window is pretty dead.

Even Microsoft just released windows for iOS/iPadOS, the writings on the wall ed

 

[EdwinG]

Sure visual studio is Microsoft but so is Visual Basic.

Visual Basic, a component of Visual Studio, has been deprecated in 2020.

If it’s not arm64 today, it is more likely that it will not move over. Like Carbon when Apple dropped x86 support in 2019.

Sure photoshop was paid by Microsoft to transition, just like Microsoft paid developers to write apps for windows mobile, didn’t go anywhere after that.

Pretty sure that Microsoft didn’t pay Adobe to recompile Photoshop. Might be wrong.

There are other apps that are now native arm64: Paint.Net, Notepad++, Firefox.

Others are in the process of moving, like Git.

As I mentioned before I believe legacy windows developers will start transitioning apps to iOS and Mac OS instead of windows arm, due to marketshare. Without those legacy apps window is pretty dead.

That’s not going to happen. Migrating to macOS requires a complete rewrite of the app, which I don’t see happening when you need to support data going over 25 years.

iOS is currently too restrictive for tools like AutoCAD, Python or Git. You’re not allowed to even compile software on iOS or iPadOS.

Even Microsoft just released windows for iOS/iPadOS, the writings on the wall ed

That’s wrong and you know it.

What they released is a remote access app to Windows 365. Basically, a Remote Desktop app for your Windows 365 subscription, which can either be an amd64 or arm64 (when available) computer on the other end.

Windows is not running locally on iOS/iPadOS. Apple doesn’t even allow it. The Windows app on macOS also doesn’t run Windows; it’s the same thing.

 

[FFR]

Visual Basic, a component of Visual Studio, has been deprecated in 2020.

If it’s not arm64 today, it is more likely that it will not move over. Like Carbon when Apple dropped x86 support in 2019.



Pretty sure that Microsoft didn’t pay Adobe to recompile Photoshop. Might be wrong.

There are other apps that are now native arm64: Paint.Net, Notepad++, Firefox.

Others are in the process of moving, like Git.


That’s not going to happen. Migrating to macOS requires a complete rewrite of the app, which I don’t see happening when you need to support data going over 25 years.

iOS is currently too restrictive for tools like AutoCAD, Python or Git. You’re not allowed to even compile software on iOS or iPadOS.

That’s wrong and you know it.

What they released is a remote access app to Windows 365. Basically, a Remote Desktop app for your Windows 365 subscription, which can either be an amd64 or arm64 (when available) computer on the other end.

Windows is not running locally on iOS/iPadOS. Apple doesn’t even allow it. The Windows app on macOS also doesn’t run Windows; it’s the same thing.

Yes and both Visual Basic and visual studio are Microsoft properties.

Carbon? Ed what are you taking about?
Carbon was deprecated in 2012. Carbon was used to transition apps from Mac OS classic to Mac OS X, nothing to do with moving from x86 to arm.

So a bunch of minor apps….. and another Microsoft property. You do realize GitHub was purchased by Microsoft.

“Pretty sure…..might be wrong”

Microsoft didn’t pay adobe as much as it should, some shortcomings:
“Features unavailable in the native mode include working with embedded video layers, the Shake Reduction filter, Invite to Edit workflows, Windows Dial Support, opening U3D files, starting Photoshop using Lightroom's 'Edit In' command, Plugin Marketplace and more. There are also a variety of known issues that Adobe is working to address, including instability, freezing and issues with printing.”

Yup really sounds like legacy developers are transitioning to windows on arm .

You have been wrong about a lot of things Ed, this wouldn’t be the first time.


Everything is going mobile, it’s just a matter of time.

iOS is cleaning up in Canada btw.

60% the quarter before the iPhone 15 launch.

 

[EdwinG]

Yes and both Visual Basic and visual studio are Microsoft properties.

Yes, but they are different things. And I’m not the one who brought in Visual Basic, you did.

Visual Studio is an integrated development environment, which allows developers to program in many languages, of which Visual Basic is one among others.

Carbon? Ed what are you taking about?
Carbon was deprecated in 2012. Carbon was used to transition apps from Mac OS classic to Mac OS X, nothing to do with moving from x86 to arm.

It never transitioned from x86 to amd64. It was there during the transition from ppc to x86.

Visual Basic is akin to Carbon in the sense that it won’t make the CPU architecture change (amd64 to arm64, like Carbon didn’t go from x86 to amd64).

So a bunch of minor apps….. and another Microsoft property. You do realize GitHub was purchased by Microsoft.

I never mentioned GitHub. I said Git, on which GitHub is built upon, but which is completely independent.

Also, Firefox is by no means a minor app. It embeds a whole browser engine (Gecko). The browser, and its engine, is the second most complex piece of software you use on your computer daily, after the operating system.

Everything is going mobile, it’s just a matter of time.

People have been saying the same for the past 15 years. The mobile device market has stabilized at this point; there are two major players in the mobile OS market (iOS/iPadOS and Android) and, alas, that’s not likely to change.

I’m not saying that the desktop/laptop computing market is going to grow, it probably won’t. But mobile has no more space to grow in developed countries, because the market has reached saturation - almost everyone has a mobile device.

iOS is cleaning up in Canada btw.

I’m really not sure what this has to do with the Windows app Microsoft is testing?

 

[FFR]

Yes, but they are different things. And I’m not the one who brought in Visual Basic, you did.

Visual Studio is an integrated development environment, which allows developers to program in many languages, of which Visual Basic is one among others.

It never transitioned from x86 to amd64. It was there during the transition from ppc to x86.

Visual Basic is akin to Carbon in the sense that it won’t make the CPU architecture change (amd64 to arm64, like Carbon didn’t go from x86 to amd64).

I never mentioned GitHub. I said Git, on which GitHub is built upon, but which is completely independent.

Also, Firefox is by no means a minor app. It embeds a whole browser engine (Gecko). The browser, and its engine, is the second most complex piece of software you use on your computer daily, after the operating system.

People have been saying the same for the past 15 years. The mobile device market has stabilized at this point; there are two major players in the mobile OS market (iOS/iPadOS and Android) and, alas, that’s not likely to change.

I’m not saying that the desktop/laptop computing market is going to grow, it probably won’t. But mobile has no more space to grow in developed countries, because the market has reached saturation - almost everyone has a mobile device.


I’m really not sure what this has to do with the Windows app Microsoft is testing?

Sure but still Microsoft property.

I guess those Microsoft arm users were full of bs when they complained windows arm lacked legacy x86 apps, because they had of opera, note pad, and an incomplete version of photoshop .

Yes those people can see the writing on the wall. Mobile first. Indeed two major players, iOS over $400 and Android below. Even outside that range Apple is proving to be dominant in developed countries.

“Desktop/laptop or classic computer market probably won’t grow.“ It’s shrinking year on year or in other words, dying. Spatial and mobile computing will replace it within the next 5 years.

iOS has been growing in rapidly in developed markets while Android has been shrinking. Growth can still be achieved in developed countries at the expense of the alternative.

It has to do with marketshare and developers know that.

Ios has almost surpassed windows marketshare in Canada. If you add Mac OS X to iOS it’s already beaten windows.

 

[EdwinG]

Sure but still Microsoft property.

No, Git is not a Microsoft property. It’s part of the Software Freedom Conservancy: https://git-scm.com/about/trademark

“Desktop/laptop or classic computer market probably won’t grow.“ It’s shrinking year on year or in other words, dying. Spatial and mobile computing will replace it within the next 5 years.

Ring me up in 5 years. Until then, we will have to agree to disagree.

Traditional computing (desktop and laptop) will probably still be there in about the same proportions.

 

[FFR]

No, Git is not a Microsoft property. It’s part of the Software Freedom Conservancy: https://git-scm.com/about/trademark


Ring me up in 5 years. Until then, we will have to agree to disagree.

Traditional computing (desktop and laptop) will probably still be there in about the same proportions.

I was referring to your first example, visual studios.

Ring ring.

It’s already happened in Canada.

Just don’t change your username after eating crow this time.

 

[EdwinG]

I was referring to your first example, visual studios.

And… ?

Indeed, Visual Studio and Visual Basic are both Microsoft properties. I never even insinuated they aren’t.

Ring ring.

It’s already happened in Canada.

Ring me up in 5 years.

You asked to wait 5 years, so let’s wait those 5 years.

By the way, desktop usage stayed about the same for Canada in 2018 and 2023, averaging around 54-55%.
Mobile increased to the detriment of tablet usage.

Just don’t change your username after eating crow this time.

I don’t need to explain why I changed my username, but I can assure you that you have 0% impact on that decision.

 

[FFR]

And… ?

Indeed, Visual Studio and Visual Basic are both Microsoft properties. I never even insinuated they aren’t.

Ring me up in 5 years.

You asked to wait 5 years, so let’s wait those 5 years.

By the way, desktop usage stayed about the same for Canada in 2018 and 2023, averaging around 54-55%.
Mobile increased to the detriment of tablet usage.

View attachment 133306
View attachment 133308

I don’t need to explain why I changed my username, but I can assure you that you have 0% impact on that decision.

You see that wasn’t hard. Visual studio is a Microsoft property, don’t know why it took 4 posts just to admit it.

I never asked to wait 5 years, I said it will replace classic computing in the next 5 years. But even having said that iOS/macOS has already eclipsed windows in Canada. It already happened.

You should define mobile and tablet on those charts. It’s pretty ambiguous. But hasn’t mobile already beaten desktop in the blue visual chart from stat counter. The top part you chose to omit. That’s pretty sad.

You changed your username

Sure ed enjoy the rest of the day.