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  1. Thread AuthorThread Author   #1  
    Ipheuria's Avatar
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    Default Team Jailbreak vs Team Pure

    I'm listening to the last iPad Live for the Team Jailbreak vs Team Pure battle. I hope this is not already posted I searched and didn't find anything. I think alot of the Team Pure reasons were not valid and were reasons that could be applied just as easily to Team pure iPhones also. I know it's in the Jailbreak section so it seems like it's starting off biased but it's the only section that seemed like it would be appropriate to be posted. So people let us know which side you're on and why? what apps you use, what concerns you have if any? how does your phone run compared to when it was vanilla?

    Security: saying Apple approves apps and so there is no malware or possible maliciousness is called blind faith. There are many things that developers can do where there is a will there is a way. There have been apps approved by Apple that happened later to be found sending data back to the developers. The app goes through an approval process but Apple doesn't continue testing the app forever, they don't go through every line of code so what stops the developer from having a time bomb so the malicious code doesn't activate until months and months later. There are apps that go to the developers servers ie. Skyfire who says that once the app is approved and resides on iPhones it goes to the servers and bam malicious code is updated/added to the app. I'm just saying it is possible just because it hasn't happened yet is no indication that it never will.

    Performance: saying that the user is able to apply so many apps the phone slows to a crawl. This again can be applied to the vanilla iPhone. There are so many features that are included with the phone that if they are used at the quickest, highest setting will slow the phone down and decimate the battery life. Just try to have your phone with 3 or more email accounts using fetch/push set at the 15 minute intervals, turn notifications on and set all alerts to on for all apps, turn your brightness to full and have location on for every app that requests it. Then see how fast your phone is and how long your battery lasts. Any electronic device is a use at owners risk by providing any type of choice with the features.

    My team jailbreak comment, I've been jailbroken on my 1st generation iPhone because we didn't have iPhones in Canada until the 3G. I remained jailbroken on my 3G because I didn't see a point in having a data plan on my iPhone. In the 3 years I have remained permanently jailbroken for necessity I rebooted my iPhone three times due to un-responsiveness. I have never had any other issues battery, wifi or otherwise my phones were rocks. The 3G continues to work flawlessly to this day. Now my vanilla iPhone 4 and until recently iPad has had problems since day one. I've rebooted both devices in one year over 10 times due to un-responsiveness, crashing apps, battery percentage not updating. I've had to restore to default over 6 times because of battery issues.
    Last edited by Ipheuria; 11-29-2010 at 07:16 AM.
    can't upgrade via iTunes check this thread http://forum.tipb.com/jailbreak-unlo...ml#post1717460
    ~32GB Space Grey iPhone 5s(Audi)~32GB Space Grey rMini ~ 15" i7 SSD 16GB rMBP(Omega) on Mavericks~
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  2. #2  
    Mustang5Oh's Avatar
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    Great write-up and I agree with everything you said. Couldn't have said it better myself actually!!

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  3. #3  
    w00dy's Avatar
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    Great Post!

    I can only add that I originally jb my 3g for cycorder. Since then, I have never looked back. I feel the JB devs keep the Apple r&d team busy. Today, great applications like biteSMS and ifile, keep me jailbroken.

    As far as relaibility goes...My virgin 3gs replacement I received back in the summer had multiple issues. Once I was able to jb it, it seemed to smooth out.

    But in general, this argument will always have butting heads.
    iPhone 4s 32gb 5.1.1
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  4. #4  
    uhanrodric's Avatar
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    I'm team Jailbreak. Here's why. I like the option to do what I want, not what I'm told I can do.

    That being said, I'm still Team Pure to the extent where I love the stock look of my devices. iOS has Android beat in the aspect for me, in the sense that, Jailbroken or not your device looks, feels, and performs the same for the most part. Unless you really get in there a tweak it up. I personally don't. Jailbreaking for me, is just the ability to use apps I would normally miss out on, such as the Emulators and MyWi. If you look at my Spring Board though, it looks completely stock.

    I will say, if Apple starts allowin some of these apps into the actualy App Store, I will avoid a JB all together on my iPad. And the only reason the JB will be on my 2G, is for the unlock.
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  5. #5  
    Alli's Avatar
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    Team Jailbreak.

    I don't understand why Apple won't allow us control over our sms tones. I don't understand why Apple can't integrate sms into every app so that you constantly have to leave what you're doing in order to read/reply/create a text message. Both of these can be done easily (and cheaply) through jailbreak without impacting security or performance.

    I also want a quick view of my agenda on my lock screen. Like those stupid Windows Phone 7 commercials...I don't necessarily need to get into the phone, I just want an overview.
  6. #6  
    uhanrodric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alli View Post
    Team Jailbreak.

    I don't understand why Apple won't allow us control over our sms tones. I don't understand why Apple can't integrate sms into every app so that you constantly have to leave what you're doing in order to read/reply/create a text message. Both of these can be done easily (and cheaply) through jailbreak without impacting security or performance.

    I also want a quick view of my agenda on my lock screen. Like those stupid Windows Phone 7 commercials...I don't necessarily need to get into the phone, I just want an overview.
    I just had to add. I LOVE the Windows Phone 7 commercials!
    iPhone 5 16GB, iPad 32GB Wi-fi, Mac Mini(2010)
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  7. Thread AuthorThread Author   #7  
    Ipheuria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by w00dy View Post
    Great Post!

    I can only add that I originally jb my 3g for cycorder. Since then, I have never looked back. I feel the JB devs keep the Apple r&d team busy. Today, great applications like biteSMS and ifile, keep me jailbroken.

    As far as relaibility goes...My virgin 3gs replacement I received back in the summer had multiple issues. Once I was able to jb it, it seemed to smooth out.

    But in general, this argument will always have butting heads.
    great points you guys I fully agree with pretty much all of them. I know the debate will always have people for either side and I just want to hear the arguments for each side. I have yet to hear a sensible argument from any Team Pure person that would make me go hmmm you have a point there. It probably will not change my mind but I like to debate the points.
    Last edited by Ipheuria; 11-29-2010 at 10:14 PM.
    can't upgrade via iTunes check this thread http://forum.tipb.com/jailbreak-unlo...ml#post1717460
    ~32GB Space Grey iPhone 5s(Audi)~32GB Space Grey rMini ~ 15" i7 SSD 16GB rMBP(Omega) on Mavericks~
    iPheuria aka The Jailbr3ak kid (soon to be retired)
  8. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ipheuria View Post
    great points you guys I fully agree with pretty much all of them. I know the debate will always have people for either side and I just want to hear the arguments for each side. I haven't until know heard a sensible argument from any Team Pure person that would make me go hmmm you have a point there. It probably will not change my mind but I like to debate the points.
    It boils down to JBing being "evil." Most people on Team Pure have either never JBen their device, or have only briefly done so. You will never hear about someone who has Jailbroken their device for an extensive period, has used a wide variety of apps and themes, and then argues that its better to stay Pure. Never.
    -iPhone4 iOS 4.1 (Greenpois0n Jailbreak)
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  9. #9  
    uhanrodric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farbod21 View Post
    It boils down to JBing being "evil." Most people on Team Pure have either never JBen their device, or have only briefly done so. You will never hear about someone who has Jailbroken their device for an extensive period, has used a wide variety of apps and themes, and then argues that its better to stay Pure. Never.
    If I could do MOST of what I can accomplish with a JB through Apple and the App store...then I would gladly sign up for Team Pure.

    But I totally agree with your point. When you can have it all, who wants to give it up and have only what you're told.
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  10. #10  
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    I'm team Edward all the way!

    oh wait...
  11. #11  
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    I left my iPhone 4 vanilla for the first month to get a feel for iOS and how Steve says it should run. Coming from a BlackBerry I had set the left convenience key for messages. That way I'd pull my phone out of the holster, click one button to check and see all notifications in once glance and put the phone back in my pocket or reply to said messages.

    After that stifling month I ran for greenp0ison. Lockinfo and bitesms were the first 2 JB apps I installed and am so glad I did. So easy now to click the lock button, glance to see if I missed anything, and then click again and put the phone back down.

    I also just installed PhotoAlbums+ This is something that iOS should have come with.

    AirPlay isn't that big of a deal for me yet so I'm patiently waiting on the 4.2.1 JB
  12. #12  
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    Agreed, colemaneuclid. BiteSMS and LockInfo are the reasons I jailbreak. If the iPhone could do what they do without jailbreaking, then sure...Team Pure.
  13. Thread AuthorThread Author   #13  
    Ipheuria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nfrederick View Post
    I'm team Edward all the way!

    oh wait...
    LOL nice farbod21 you are so right but what I don't understand is they can't come up with a good reason for anyone to stay with a vanilla phone. Yet I can come up with many reasons to jailbreak. Also the jailbreak is easily removable if you grow tired of it or need to take it to Apple. Where are all the team pure peeps? I guess they seriously don't come into the Jailbreak forums?? I would just love to hear their arguments so we can have a good debate.
    can't upgrade via iTunes check this thread http://forum.tipb.com/jailbreak-unlo...ml#post1717460
    ~32GB Space Grey iPhone 5s(Audi)~32GB Space Grey rMini ~ 15" i7 SSD 16GB rMBP(Omega) on Mavericks~
    iPheuria aka The Jailbr3ak kid (soon to be retired)
  14. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ipheuria View Post
    LOL nice farbod21 you are so right but what I don't understand is they can't come up with a good reason for anyone to stay with a vanilla phone. Yet I can come up with many reasons to jailbreak. Also the jailbreak is easily removable if you grow tired of it or need to take it to Apple. Where are all the team pure peeps? I guess they seriously don't come into the Jailbreak forums?? I would just love to hear their arguments so we can have a good debate.
    Agreed 100%. People on the "pure" side only say security and performance suffer when in actuality they don't fully understand what they are talking about. Not saying that as a negative towards anyone but I think they are just so scared of somehow "ruining their phone" which is pretty dang hard. I will NEVER stay stock iPhone if a JB is available on any firmware. I love the stock look but they are clearly missing a lot of functionality that JB devs give us on a daily basis!

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  15. Thread AuthorThread Author   #15  
    Ipheuria's Avatar
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    I think the only thing that users get out of keeping their phones vanilla is Steve Jobs' satisfaction. I think JB offers alot that is not possible on the iPhone under Apple. I have no problem with someone keeping their phone vanilla, that's their choice. I just don't see any arguments for keeping it vanilla. I think alot of users say they feel dirty when they do it and that is just something that somehow Apple over the years of advertising and selling their products has been able to put consumers into that state. The simple fact is that JB pushes Apple to innovate and make changes they might not make otherwise. It also pushes them to patch security holes they would leave open were it not for common knowledge. The process also makes some users more knowledgeable about their phones, who would have ever known the root password let alone how to change it without Jailbreak?
    can't upgrade via iTunes check this thread http://forum.tipb.com/jailbreak-unlo...ml#post1717460
    ~32GB Space Grey iPhone 5s(Audi)~32GB Space Grey rMini ~ 15" i7 SSD 16GB rMBP(Omega) on Mavericks~
    iPheuria aka The Jailbr3ak kid (soon to be retired)
  16. #16  
    w00dy's Avatar
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    When I show someone my jailbroken device, the 1st thing I show them is biteSMS. It really is an incredible sms application.

    Just recently, Cydia store now has Photo Albums Plus (I think it is called that). It imbeds into the stock photo app and allows you to create folders and move pictures from the camera roll to the new folders. This is something Apple NEEDS to include in future software releases!!!


    iPhone 4s 32gb 5.1.1
    iphone 4 16gb 4.2.1 JB via GP
    iPad 64gb 3g 5.0.1 JB via redsn0w
    šoOOoššoOOoššoOOoššoOOoššoOOoššoOOoššoOOoššoOOoš

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  17. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by w00dy View Post
    When I show someone my jailbroken device, the 1st thing I show them is biteSMS. It really is an incredible sms application.

    Just recently, Cydia store now has Photo Albums Plus (I think it is called that). It imbeds into the stock photo app and allows you to create folders and move pictures from the camera roll to the new folders. This is something Apple NEEDS to include in future software releases!!!


    I always found the Stock Photo App "interesting", if you don't intend to allow multiple photo folders, what exactly is the point of hitting the app, then getting a menu to access the one folder on the phone? (Seriously, hit photos, you get the menu to "choose" which roll you want to view. But there is only ONE option!!!) Wouldn't it just go right into the one folder? Something tells me Apple intended for there to be multiple folders somewhere along the line...which leads me to believe that in the future, this will be something implemented.
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  18. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by farbod21 View Post
    It boils down to JBing being "evil." Most people on Team Pure have either never JBen their device, or have only briefly done so. You will never hear about someone who has Jailbroken their device for an extensive period, has used a wide variety of apps and themes, and then argues that its better to stay Pure. Never.
    That pretty much sums up what i would say.
  19. #19  
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    Coming from the webOS community, I find the jailbreak community interesting, and a little confusing.
    Preware (our equivalent to Cydia) wasn't so difficult to install, and had more features, because the devs had more time to work on the app, and not how to get it on devices, since palm embraced it so much (there's an app in the official app catalogue with links and instructions for n00bs to install preware and homebrew with). Preware, and homebrew devs even did a presentation or two with palm during keynotes.

    Anyway, it's done a lot of good because many of the good "hacks" (known as a "patch" to webs users) were actually implemented by palm in various official os updates throughout the time it's been around, and a number of the updates coming in webOS 2.0 are derived from patches developed by the home brew team.
    The efforts of homebrew devs working on webOS are widely known in the community as the reason so many of us remain on webOS.

    What is the point of this story? It's a very clear example of the power of homebrew to, when embraced by the company in question, benefit the end users as well as the manufacturer. I'm aware apple's strategy in the market clashes with the idea of embracing homebrew like this but they could still benefit from it by using some of the ideas implemented by homebrew devs. For example, pro switcher, I've never tested it myself, cause I just got my iPad and 4.2.1 doesn't work with it, but if apple used these things to strengthen the official os, they would have a LOT less jail breaking on their hands, and the os would gain momentum and strength even more so, for taking advantage of the extra free dev power.

    I'm sorry end of rant now, I got totally carried away with that one :P
    iPhone 3GS jailbroken/unlocked, iPad 1 jailbroken, PS3 (I wish it was jailbroken), Windows PC user.
  20. #20  
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    @MYNAMESALEX
    my dad has the pre, but I never really played around with it. Taking homebrew apps and implementing them into the next official OS release sounds like a good way to let the community build the OS they really want, rather than the manufacturer strictly limiting the device.

    I think Apple shouldn't fight the jailbreakers, but rather view them as an aftermarket type of service. I actually like how the iPhone comes out of the box. Pretty bare bones. No real "bloatware." I view jailbreaking and Cydia to be my "aftermarket store." If approached from a certain angle, installing Cydia tweaks and apps could be like adding features similar to when you buy a car. It comes with certain things standard, but you can add these other features if you want.

    They could also use Cydia like apps as a HUGE beta test. It seems there were a lot of people who had issues with 4.2.1
    I'm not sure of how many people were officially beta testing 4.2 and then also beta tested 4.2.1 but I imagine a lot more bugs could be caught when you have a much bigger net(work)
  21. #21  
    farbod21's Avatar
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    What you ask for is not possible for Apple. Not because they are steadfast against jailbreak (I believe that many Apple employees are jailbroken and use it as a testing platform), but because they are contractually and strategically obligated to keep jailbreaking and unlocking at bay. Unlocking takes money out of the pocket of the cell providers' pockets, not Apple's, but Apple is obligated to combat them for the same reason they limit features like Facetime to Wifi.

    Similarly, while we may wish piracy didn't exist, it thrives on JBen devices. Apple has no choice but to maintain their resistance to JBing. Ask any Jailbreak dev about piracy and they will be the first to tell you it is the bane of their existence, but there is nothing you can do about it.

    These are the reasons why Apple will never embrace JB. Not because they choose not to but because they are obligated to by the nature of their business model.
    Last edited by farbod21; 11-30-2010 at 03:19 PM.
    -iPhone4 iOS 4.1 (Greenpois0n Jailbreak)
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  22. #22  
    uhanrodric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MYNAMESALEX View Post
    Coming from the webOS community, I find the jailbreak community interesting, and a little confusing.
    Preware (our equivalent to Cydia) wasn't so difficult to install, and had more features, because the devs had more time to work on the app, and not how to get it on devices, since palm embraced it so much (there's an app in the official app catalogue with links and instructions for n00bs to install preware and homebrew with). Preware, and homebrew devs even did a presentation or two with palm during keynotes.

    Anyway, it's done a lot of good because many of the good "hacks" (known as a "patch" to webs users) were actually implemented by palm in various official os updates throughout the time it's been around, and a number of the updates coming in webOS 2.0 are derived from patches developed by the home brew team.
    The efforts of homebrew devs working on webOS are widely known in the community as the reason so many of us remain on webOS.

    What is the point of this story? It's a very clear example of the power of homebrew to, when embraced by the company in question, benefit the end users as well as the manufacturer. I'm aware apple's strategy in the market clashes with the idea of embracing homebrew like this but they could still benefit from it by using some of the ideas implemented by homebrew devs. For example, pro switcher, I've never tested it myself, cause I just got my iPad and 4.2.1 doesn't work with it, but if apple used these things to strengthen the official os, they would have a LOT less jail breaking on their hands, and the os would gain momentum and strength even more so, for taking advantage of the extra free dev power.

    I'm sorry end of rant now, I got totally carried away with that one :P
    I agree with you 100%. I believe that is what keeps the ANDROID OS going. 3rd party developers. Google is just the ringleader that makes sure no one goes overboard.
    iPhone 5 16GB, iPad 32GB Wi-fi, Mac Mini(2010)
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  23. #23  
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    I guess i shouldn't have lumped all of Cydia and Jailbreaking into one thought.
    I enjoy the tweaks from Cydia and although BiteSms is an app, its basically tweaking the native sms app.

    What I'm saying really is Apple should look at the things jailbreakers are doing with those tweaks and take note. I mean, really, how long did it take to get mms messages on iPhone. Send the phone out bare bones stock but have options like Lockscreen, emoticons, 5 icon springboard/dock, better file management app, etc available without jailbreaking. It's not the end of the world to want a custom sms tone haha!
  24. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by colemaneuclid View Post
    I guess i shouldn't have lumped all of Cydia and Jailbreaking into one thought.
    I enjoy the tweaks from Cydia and although BiteSms is an app, its basically tweaking the native sms app.

    What I'm saying really is Apple should look at the things jailbreakers are doing with those tweaks and take note. I mean, really, how long did it take to get mms messages on iPhone. Send the phone out bare bones stock but have options like Lockscreen, emoticons, 5 icon springboard/dock, better file management app, etc available without jailbreaking. It's not the end of the world to want a custom sms tone haha!
    Oh trust me, they do. I wouldnt be surprised to find out that some JB devs are actually Apple employees....
    -iPhone4 iOS 4.1 (Greenpois0n Jailbreak)
    -iPad iOS 4.2.1 (Redsn0w Jailbreak [Tethered])
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  25. Thread AuthorThread Author   #25  
    Ipheuria's Avatar
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    I like the analogy of the jailbreak being like aftermarket parts for cars. The car manufacturers for a long time would ignore the aftermarket crowd because they wanted to provide a simple vehicle to get from point A to point B. However once they saw the numbers going to aftermarket parts they wanted to have that revenue so they slowly started to incorporate the same stylin ideas in the cars from the factory. They also started to adopt their own brand of aftermarket parts sold at the dealerships. I'm surprised with all it's money Apple just doesn't have an undercover third party buy Cydia and then close it's doors. Why? well at the end of the day the phones jailbroken or not were bought meaning money in Apple's pockets. The jailbreak means more people on the platform that wouldn't be, think unlockers. So on the face of it like farbod said Apple is obligated to prevent the unlock and jailbreak. They still win in the end by having more phones sold, more users on the platform and happy users.

    PS
    Where are the team pure players? Is Chad running that team solo? I wanted to hear their arguments for why it is better?
    Last edited by Ipheuria; 11-30-2010 at 11:01 PM.
    can't upgrade via iTunes check this thread http://forum.tipb.com/jailbreak-unlo...ml#post1717460
    ~32GB Space Grey iPhone 5s(Audi)~32GB Space Grey rMini ~ 15" i7 SSD 16GB rMBP(Omega) on Mavericks~
    iPheuria aka The Jailbr3ak kid (soon to be retired)
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