1. sting7k's Avatar
    I don't know if anyone is following Joe Hewitt, Facebook for iPhone engineer, on Twitter. But last night he posted an interesting tweet about not liking the "Innocent until proven guilty" model he sees in the app store. Now he's followed up with a blog post on the subject. He also commented earlier wondering what the internet would be like if a web developer had to wait 2+ weeks when he/she wanted to make a change to their website.

    Joe Hewitt
    Last edited by sting7k; 08-25-2009 at 08:41 AM.
    08-25-2009 08:38 AM
  2. mg48's Avatar
    Apple certainly has the right to control their App store just like Barnes & Noble decides what books to carry on the shelves. There are other book stores and other app stores for those that don't like what they see. What I don't agree with is Apple trying to make jailbreakers out to be criminals. But that's just a battle of words and everyone knows that Apple has a big mouth.
    08-25-2009 01:42 PM
  3. lionheartednyhc's Avatar
    I had never thought of it from the web-app perspective before. Now I hate the app store even more.


    RAWRGH
    08-25-2009 01:59 PM
  4. Earless Puppy's Avatar
    I don't know if anyone is following Joe Hewitt, Facebook for iPhone engineer, on Twitter. But last night he posted an interesting tweet about not liking the "Innocent until proven guilty" model he sees in the app store.
    Would be nice if we could leave our house and car doors unlocked also, but the world is not a nice place always... It is a shame on the innocent until proven guilty concept, but it the real world things don't work out so black and white...

    IHe also commented earlier wondering what the internet would be like if a web developer had to wait 2+ weeks when he/she wanted to make a change to their website.
    Bad example, look at all the malicious websites and viruses out there, being that Apple is responsible for fixing someone elses bad deed, can you really blame them for wanting to protect their product from malicious code... And also please remember not everyone is as computer literate as yourself... Just a thought... I personally don't want uncalled for surveys and viagra ads popping up on my phone left and right...
    08-26-2009 04:41 PM
  5. Jellotime91's Avatar
    If you read his blog post, it is very easy to support.
    I COMPLETELY, 100%, support his "innocent until proven guilty" idea for the App Store. Apple is being completely ridiculous.
    08-26-2009 08:53 PM
  6. Earless Puppy's Avatar
    I agree that would be the ideal situation, but most people do not consider how the bad person thinks, so someone gets caught and their bad program is removed, great Apple removes their account, now they go out and get a email address and a prepaid master-card and create another Dev account untraceable to their real identity.
    And they do it again.... Do you know just how many innocent till proven guilty Nigerian Kings and found African money apps would be in the app store. There would be 10 billion "get rich off the internet apps". The app store would be a dangerous place, sounds good but this is how it would play out...
    08-26-2009 09:29 PM
  7. Jellotime91's Avatar
    I agree that would be the ideal situation, but most people do not consider how the bad person thinks, so someone gets caught and their bad program is removed, great Apple removes their account, now they go out and get a email address and a prepaid master-card and create another Dev account untraceable to their real identity.
    And they do it again.... Do you know just how many innocent till proven guilty Nigerian Kings and found African money apps would be in the app store. There would be 10 billion "get rich off the internet apps". The app store would be a dangerous place, sounds good but this is how it would play out...
    They should at least allow trusted developers to upgrade applications without a delay.
    08-26-2009 11:59 PM
  8. Earless Puppy's Avatar
    I agree with you, but who becomes the trusted dev... Do you allow google, only to find out they are data mining your text messages later... How unfair is it to allow facebook but not allow Pocket God (personal favorite)... An even playing field is the only option, or here comes more bad press and personally I think the app store has been a success story for many individual developers whom you would of never heard of if it wasn't for the app store and its level playing field.

    Honestly I don't like the current system, but I do see why it is in place and until a better solution is found or grown out of the current system... This honestly is the best solution except Apple taking 40 cents on the dollar and hiring more people.
    08-27-2009 01:57 AM
  9. Earless Puppy's Avatar
    Oh and trust me, I am and have been waiting for facebook 3.0... haha
    08-27-2009 01:58 AM
  10. Jellotime91's Avatar
    Then you have a definition for exactly what a trusted developer is, it's fair if it must be achieved by everyone. And in special cases such as google voice, Apple can handle it after its been uploaded and god forbid 300 of the American AT&T prisoners download it before they can fix it. Oh fvcking well. LOL

    What's important is that consumers are able to receive updates fast. I think after an app is uploaded, they should make sure it's safe, and then after that, the developer should be able to upgrade it as they please.

    But like, come on apple. It's FACEBOOK. An app that almost every single person with an iPhone or iPod touch obtains immediately. Why is it taking SO LONG!?
    08-27-2009 08:55 AM
  11. Ipheuria's Avatar
    I haven't even read through everything yet but here's my thoughts. Everyone always wants everything NOW it's the way of society. UNTIL, they get screwed and then the buck gets passed around. The blame will be aimed at everyone who had anything to do with the problem except themselves. So lets say there was a trusted dev group who got their updates out the door faster than everyone else. In rushing to get it out it happens that the app totally screws up the phone. I can see users blaming Apple for letting the app get released, then blaming the company that did the update because they should have tested it more to ensure it was stable. However never do they blame themselves or take part blame because of their zeal to have updates quickly that the process was changed to acheive this thereby having some part in the problem. How many people will complain once Snow Leopard ships about bugs, software not working, etc. This is a finished product that will be in stores. So no matter what bugs and fatal crashing can happen, just because they are a trusted dev doesn't protect them from that fact.
    08-27-2009 11:31 AM
  12. sting7k's Avatar
    The issue with that is that apps are sand boxed, they don't have free run of the iPhone and every other app. One app killing an iPhone is unlikely. In that event you are only a restore or reset away from being fixed.

    If Snow Leopard turns out to have some fatal flaws or bugs I very much doubt Apple is going to wait a month to fix them. A day maybe 2 tops will go by before something is out that at least helps and maybe another day or 2 for a full fix. Why can't the iPhone get fixes that fast for apps?

    I look at it this way. There has to be some personal responsibility. The internet is full of bad stuff; malicious sites, viruses, trojans, worms, you name it. But in the end in 99% of cases your computer doesn't just get a virus, action from the user is required. Maybe they got tricked to going to a fake website or got a bad email. At some point the user did something to activate the code to exploit a hole.

    Right now the way things are Apple is supposed to be reviewing these apps. Yet why do I download so many that have performance issues, bugs, and crash all the time? Right now 100% of the blame IS Apple's, they are supposed to be "protecting" me from these bad apps. They have failed badly at that, it's a joke. I've gotten some even from big name developers that I couldn't even use because they crashed or were full of sloppy performance. Where was Apple on those? They clearly are not reviewing apps for bugs because there is literal trash in the app store right now full of bugs and glitches. When a bug does get in a developer will know probably within hours with thousands of downloads and can get to work and put up a fix within another mere hours instead of weeks. People have been dealing with bugs for decades now, I don't think they are that big a deal until something you use all day every day is crippled for weeks waiting to be "reviewed".

    If you take out the "review" it gets Apple out of that responsibility. They can put in the TOS, download apps from trusted sources or at your own risk. They already warn me about apps that "may be potentially offensive", eliminating them from responsibility if someone is offended. The Windows UAC is similar, no matter how annoying, for non-power users it can make them think an extra second if they really should be doing what they are about to do.

    With no review it's on the owner to download and manage THEIR iPhone. Everyone goes on and on about how they paid for it so they should be able to do what they want with it. Jailbreakers don't blame Apple for bad apps, they know the risks. If the app store is the only front for apps it will be pretty easy to spot something that may be shady. If something bad gets in it won't take long to kill and the reviews will tell others, and the app will go away. The ecosystem will police itself. Useless and bad apps will have less incentive to even enter the app store because people will know they are on their own and won't download something they don't understand.
    08-27-2009 04:21 PM
  13. Ipheuria's Avatar
    Good point, when I said killing the phone I didn't mean bricking it but I remember I had one app and when I ran it the phone crashed and froze on me. I was also JB and unlocked, I did a reboot and removed the app and it wasn't a big deal for me. If users would take some of the responsibility and understanding that any problems is not Apple's fault it would work. I'm just thinking from a person who is not as technical, didn't know how to do the reboot once the phone locked up. They would be upset and in the end I just think they would somehow find a way to blame Apple. I think Apple is more afraid of those same people telling possibly new customers of their bad experiences even though Apple is not to blame. Although your point about garbage being in the app store now even though they say they are reviewing them kind of kills that theory a bit.
    08-27-2009 04:34 PM
  14. sting7k's Avatar
    Note, facebook 3.0 is up in the app store. The wait is over!
    08-27-2009 05:19 PM
  15. HappyBunny's Avatar
    Note, facebook 3.0 is up in the app store. The wait is over!
    Where? Not in the updates or social networking...
    08-28-2009 02:46 AM
  16. Ipheuria's Avatar
    Just go to the App Store and it should prompt you for updates and it's one of them. I got it yesterday night.
    08-28-2009 09:01 AM
  17. chobbs1's Avatar
    Hey! I had to wait too and now that it is out. Good job! I love it! I would much rather wait for a good product rather than having a half a$$Ed product rushed to me. So... Keep up the good work Apple and Facebook and all those that are willing to defy majority opinion and do what is right.
    08-29-2009 12:58 AM
  18. ignmdq's Avatar
    A developer ranking should be awesome, so Apple can speed up the approval process depending the developer skills/free of bugs apps.
    09-07-2009 12:11 AM
  19. Watcher's Avatar
    Apple trying to make jailbreakers out to be criminals.
    Well, when people use vernacular like "Jailbreaking", can you really blame them?
    09-09-2009 08:20 AM
  20. eldiablojoe's Avatar
    Why not a rating system like that used by eBay?

    Just a thought...
    09-09-2009 04:01 PM
  21. BlackSVTL's Avatar
    Only thing wrong with the app is that it doesn't pop up notifactions like the blackberry app. thats the only thing i see it needing.
    09-09-2009 06:21 PM
  22. iMagnify's Avatar
    Yes it does. it pops up new notifications at the bottom as long as you are at the menu screen of FB
    09-16-2009 07:35 PM
  23. Earless Puppy's Avatar
    And please bear in mind that using the App store with a 2 week wait time, is a hell of a lot quicker and cheaper then packaging and distributing to stores around the country
    09-16-2009 09:28 PM
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