What about Apple’s “responsibility” to consumers?

anon(5630457)

Well-known member
Sep 29, 2015
774
0
0
Visit site
My stance is that although I understand why they do it, they don’t have to do it. They are not ‘obligated’ to do it.

This is where you're wrong. When I spend $1,000 on a device, I expect it to get timely updates for a period of time. This is INCLUDED in the purchase price. The purchase price DOES NOT stop at the hardware. The purchase price includes the hardware, timely software updates, and the expectation that any software issue will be taken care of when I own the device. Never once when I purchased a device did I think it's "benevolent" for a manufacturer to update the software because it is EXPECTED when I purchase the device.
 

anon(5630457)

Well-known member
Sep 29, 2015
774
0
0
Visit site
No. Apple did not “force” anyone to upgrade and not everyone experienced battery issues. I didn’t have battery issues with any of my previous iPhone models and when I passed them along to my kids, they didn’t complain of having battery issues. I upgraded to the newer models because I wanted to. I pretty much upgrade every year like a good deal of other people. As for people claiming that they “had to upgrade”, I’m not buying it.....

Dismissing the issue speaks volumes because you're ignoring the fact that millions of customers had these issues. Just because you didn't experience them doesn't mean no one else experienced them. If only a few people experienced this, it wouldn't be an issue. But since millions of people are upset, this is a HUGE issue. Of course your kids won't complain about battery issues because either they don't know anything about how a battery works, didn't have a frame of reference when the device was new, and/or didn't care about the battery.
 

Tartarus

Ambassador
Feb 20, 2014
17,442
20
38
Visit site
Exactly this. It's been common knowledge among consumers for years that Apple slowed down older devices to the point that a consumer had to purchase a new device to get a faster experience. That is the very definition of planned obsolescence. Apple made BILLIONS off this. It's reprehensible.

People generally buy a new phone because the newer ones have new features. The speed improvement is implied, but not a necessity in itself.
Most people don’t even care about speed. They notice their phone is slightly slower and think ‘Nah, it suits my needs’ and ‘I’m not gonna spend money on a new phone’.

You are wrong in assuming that people tend to upgrade when they experience slower phones.

If any, people tend to upgrade every 2 to 3 years, the more advanced users upgrade every year.
 

Quis89

Ambassador
Feb 6, 2012
3,268
2
38
Visit site
@Quis89 Well, people can have opposing opinions and points of view. That doesn't make either opinion less valid. If someone doesn't agree with your point of view, that doesn't make them naive or selfish or pretentious. I disagree with Rene Richie practically daily, doesn't mean his view doesn't speak to someone else.

I'm cynical and have been most of my adult life. I don't and won't ever believe that any company isn't working from it's own interest first and foremost. I agreed to the terms and conditions of the iOS license agreement, so I am alright with whatever they feel that they need to do to the software. If people believe otherwise, that's okay too.

It’s fine to disagree. It’s the shunning of those with issues and implying people who are offended by Apple in this situation are silly for their feelings that I think is wrong.
 

SwitchBeach

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2013
2,968
6
38
Visit site
This is where you're wrong. When I spend $1,000 on a device, I expect it to get timely updates for a period of time. This is INCLUDED in the purchase price. The purchase price DOES NOT stop at the hardware. The purchase price includes the hardware, timely software updates, and the expectation that any software issue will be taken care of when I own the device. Never once when I purchased a device did I think it's "benevolent" for a manufacturer to update the software because it is EXPECTED when I purchase the device.

Where is it stated in the purchase agreement or software agreement that ANY update to the software on the device is "INCLUDED IN THE PRICE"?

Just because a customer might feel entitled to it does not make it the responsibility of the manufacturer.

I have never understood this mindset.
 

Just_Me_D

Ambassador Team Leader, Senior Moderator
Moderator
Jan 8, 2012
59,709
632
113
Visit site
Dismissing the issue speaks volumes because you're ignoring the fact that millions of customers had these issues. Just because you didn't experience them doesn't mean no one else experienced them. If only a few people experienced this, it wouldn't be an issue. But since millions of people are upset, this is a HUGE issue. Of course your kids won't complain about battery issues because either they don't know anything about how a battery works, didn't have a frame of reference when the device was new, and/or didn't care about the battery.
I did NOT say that people weren’t having issues. I said that I was NOT BUYING the statement that claimed that Apple ‘forced’ people to upgrade and I still stand by that. As for my know kids, you clearly don’t know them. If something is wrong with their phone or if it’s not operating right, believe me when I say that they will seek my assistance and advice. Anyway, I do not have a problem with your opinion or anyone else’s opinion regarding this matter.
 

kataran

Ambassador
Mar 11, 2013
4,675
33
48
Visit site
A business that sells a quality product that performs as good or better than its closes competition with a good track record is becoming rare.

Look at the Auto industry!

Yeah they sell at a profit but I don’t mind paying for a good product. That’s all I ever ask from any Company or Service
 

Just_Me_D

Ambassador Team Leader, Senior Moderator
Moderator
Jan 8, 2012
59,709
632
113
Visit site
Where is it stated in the purchase agreement or software agreement that ANY update to the software on the device is "INCLUDED IN THE PRICE"?

Just because a customer might feel entitled to it does not make it the responsibility of the manufacturer.

I have never understood this mindset.

Thank you!
 

anon(5630457)

Well-known member
Sep 29, 2015
774
0
0
Visit site
Where is it stated in the purchase agreement or software agreement that ANY update to the software on the device is "INCLUDED IN THE PRICE"?

Just because a customer might feel entitled to it does not make it the responsibility of the manufacturer.

I have never understood this mindset.

It's specifically part of the purchasing package. It's not "entitlement". If I spend $1K on a device, it better get timely software updates. This is not a compromise. It's Apple's responsibility to protect its consumers from the vast amount of hackers, bugs, and exploits that are out there. It's flabbergasting that you'd even write what you wrote.

A lot of Android enthusiasts do not purchase LG, Samsung, or HTC Android phones because the companies don't update the software in a timely matter, or even at all. People expect it, and I do not think it's unreasonable to expect that, especially when anyone drops $800-$1200 on a device. Now, when we purchase a computer, we expect it to be protected from the latest exploits or hacks, right? It's not unreasonable to expect the same thing from a phone manufacturer.
 
Last edited:

anon(5630457)

Well-known member
Sep 29, 2015
774
0
0
Visit site
I did NOT say that people weren’t having issues. I said that I was NOT BUYING the statement that claimed that Apple ‘forced’ people to upgrade and I still stand by that. As for my know kids, you clearly don’t know them. If something is wrong with their phone or if it’s not operating right, believe me when I say that they will seek my assistance and advice. Anyway, I do not have a problem with your opinion or anyone else’s opinion regarding this matter.

You keep defending the indefensible. Apple screwed over its customers. Period. There's no way around it. Customers had no idea that they could replace the battery for $79. They were led to believe that they had to upgrade their devices. Even Apple's customer support didn't bring up replacing the battery when people were complaining about slowdowns.

I worked for Walmart years ago and they had better ethical practices, and I got screwed out of overtime pay again and again.
 

Just_Me_D

Ambassador Team Leader, Senior Moderator
Moderator
Jan 8, 2012
59,709
632
113
Visit site
You keep defending the indefensible. Apple screwed over its customers. Period. There's no way around it. Customers had no idea that they could replace the battery for $79. They were led to believe that they had to upgrade their devices. Even Apple's customer support didn't bring up replacing the battery when people were complaining about slowdowns.
So if someone entered an Apple Store saying that their phone isn’t as fast as it used to be, especially after it updated to iOS 11, and then started looking around at the newer model iPhone and telling the genius that he wanted his current iPhone to be as fast as the newer ones. If the genius tells the customer that although he could fix the problem with the old phone, it will never be as fast as the newer phone, is it a lie? In addition, if the customer opts to buy the new phone, even after the genius stated that he could fix the problem with the old one, where’s the problem?

Granted, I can’t prove that my example actually occurred, but you also can’t prove that it didn’t.
 
Last edited:

anon(5630457)

Well-known member
Sep 29, 2015
774
0
0
Visit site
So if someone entered an Apple Store saying that their phone isn’t as fast as it used to be, especially after it updated to iOS 11, and then started looking around at the newer model iPhone and telling the genius that he wanted his current iPhone to be as fast as the newer ones. If the genius tells the customer that although he could fix the problem with the old phone, it will never be as fast as the newer phone, is it a lie? In addition, if the customer opts to buy the new phone, even after the genius stated that he could fix the problem with the old one, where’s the problem?

Granted, I can’t prove that my example actually occurred, but you also can’t prove that it didn’t.

False equivalency.

1. New tech will always be faster than older tech, or at least it should be.
2. The point: Apple NEVER gave anyone the option to replace the battery in their phone when it slowed down. They never told anyone replacing the battery would take care of the slowdown issue.
3. Defending Apple with this is reprehensible, especially since they screwed over its customers out of over a billion dollars by making them upgrade.
 

Just_Me_D

Ambassador Team Leader, Senior Moderator
Moderator
Jan 8, 2012
59,709
632
113
Visit site
False equivalency.

1. New tech will always be faster than older tech, or at least it should be.
. Agreed
2. The point: Apple NEVER gave anyone the option to replace the battery in their phone when it slowed down. They never told anyone replacing the battery would take care of the slowdown issue.
Do you have definitive proof that EVERYONE who entered an Apple Store with the issue you mentioned was never informed that replacing the battery may or would fix the problem?
3. Defending Apple with this is reprehensible, especially since they screwed over its customers out of over a billion dollars by making them upgrade.
Not agreeing with the claims you make is not the same as defending Apple. Apple the entity may have withheld information, but there is no way for you to know what customers were told by the Genius’ that work in their retail stores. Now in regard to “making them upgrade”, No retail establishment is going to make people do anything. The most they can do is recommend. The choice to upgrade rests with the customer which brings me back to my previous example in which you called a “false equivalency”. :)
 
Last edited:

Tartarus

Ambassador
Feb 20, 2014
17,442
20
38
Visit site
False equivalency.

3. Defending Apple with this is reprehensible, especially since they screwed over its customers out of over a billion dollars by making them upgrade.

This did not happen. Those customers were gonna upgrade anyway. Most customers do this every year or 2 years, 3 at most. The ones that hold on longer to their device simply don’t care about speed at all and won’t upgrade anyway.

Of those customers that did upgrade, have either sold their devices to someone and got money for it, or they passed it down to someone. Those devices were not demolished or thrown away because they were slow. In case it was resold the reseller got money for it, which makes your claim of billions of dollars exaggerated at best.
 

mavsguy842

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2012
116
0
0
Visit site
I’ve only got a couple of things to add. Firstly, do we know that Apple can make a profit with $29 battery replacements? Taking into account the cost of the battery, shipping, and labor I’d be surprised if they were even breaking even.

Second, this is something I’ve struggled to put into words, so it might not come out just how I’m feeling, but I’ll give it a go. A person who has a 2 or 3 year old iPhone and prefers to replace their battery instead of buying a new iPhone is not a good customer. They’re marginal at best. Apple’s best customers are the kind who walk into an Apple Store and walk out with something new other than a battery.
 

scruffypig

Well-known member
Feb 16, 2014
2,113
19
38
Visit site
False equivalency.

1. New tech will always be faster than older tech, or at least it should be.
2. The point: Apple NEVER gave anyone the option to replace the battery in their phone when it slowed down. They never told anyone replacing the battery would take care of the slowdown issue.
3. Defending Apple with this is reprehensible, especially since they screwed over its customers out of over a billion dollars by making them upgrade.

That isn’t true. Apple gives that option to replace their battery if necessary. Apple offered a battery replacement program for certain iPhone 6S’s with batteries determined to be potentially problematic. I had no idea really about it when I took my iPhone 6S in to my local Apple certified repair center just asking questions about performance. They replaced mine for free, out of warranty.
 

phlamethrowre

Well-known member
Feb 5, 2014
1,107
56
38
Visit site
If you’re defending Apple on this you might be a fanboy. If you see it for what it really is don’t waste your time debating it here. It’s pointless.
 

SprSynJn

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2013
984
0
0
Visit site
It's specifically part of the purchasing package. It's not "entitlement". If I spend $1K on a device, it better get timely software updates. This is not a compromise. It's Apple's responsibility to protect its consumers from the vast amount of hackers, bugs, and exploits that are out there. It's flabbergasting that you'd even write what you wrote.

A lot of Android enthusiasts do not purchase LG, Samsung, or HTC Android phones because the companies don't update the software in a timely matter, or even at all. People expect it, and I do not think it's unreasonable to expect that, especially when anyone drops $800-$1200 on a device. Now, when we purchase a computer, we expect it to be protected from the latest exploits or hacks, right? It's not unreasonable to expect the same thing from a phone manufacturer.

There’s a whole lot of wishful thinking in that long post. Might as well stop buying computers altogether my friend. You’re just going to be let down.
 

Just_Me_D

Ambassador Team Leader, Senior Moderator
Moderator
Jan 8, 2012
59,709
632
113
Visit site
There’s a whole lot of wishful thinking in that long post. Might as well stop buying computers altogether my friend. You’re just going to be let down.

Yeah, it’s like expecting your $350,000 home to automatically come furnished as well as protect you from burglars simply because of its price. It’s like some kids today who want to be adults without the responsibilities that come with being an adult. Know what I mean?
 

anon(5630457)

Well-known member
Sep 29, 2015
774
0
0
Visit site
There’s a whole lot of wishful thinking in that long post. Might as well stop buying computers altogether my friend. You’re just going to be let down.

What? You mean your computer doesn't get any updates? You're getting screwed then. Both of my Windows laptops get updates at least once a month, maybe even more. Wishful thinking? No. It's realistic.
 

Trending Posts

Forum statistics

Threads
260,011
Messages
1,765,304
Members
441,220
Latest member
waeriyadh