Tragic shooting at an elementary school in CT...

Eileen89

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Apr 27, 2011
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I agree with you. If we don't start taking responsibility for the mental health of our children and get them the help they need then this will continue to happen

Where I think the mom has to bear some of the blame is not recognizing that her son was getting worse and getting him the proper care. This is something we all need to be better educated on. I also feel teaching to shoot is one thing. Having the guns in the house readily available to her mentally unstable son is another.
Unfortunately, there just aren't enough resources out there for people with metal health issues. As long as the health care system continues to take a back seat on this, people that need help are not going to get it, and what happened last Friday is going to continue to happen over and over again. Could be your town or mine, without the proper mental health care resources for people like this nobody is safe....


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phreddyl

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Feb 12, 2011
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Unfortunately, there just aren't enough resources out there for people with metal health issues. As long as the health care system continues to take a back seat on this, people that need help are not going to get it, and what happened last Friday is going to continue to happen over and over again. Could be your town or mine, without the proper mental health care resources for people like this nobody is safe....


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That's why I feel this issue is way more important than gun control right now.
 

kch50428

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Oct 22, 2010
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That's why I feel this issue is way more important than gun control right now.
"Gun control" isn't about the guns - it's about the control. Take away people's ability to defend themselves from a tyrannical government, and you'll get exactly that.
 

anon(631531)

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Nov 3, 2010
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"Gun control" isn't about the guns - it's about the control. Take away people's ability to defend themselves from a tyrannical government, and you'll get exactly that.

Back up a minute. We're not talking about a tyrannical government here. I'm a defender of the 2nd Ammendment, but not a defender of an irresponsible person who keeps guns readily available to a mentally unstable person. When she died, her stupidity died with her, but what about those innocent children?
 

anon(4698833)

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Back up a minute. We're not talking about a tyrannical government here. I'm a defender of the 2nd Ammendment, but not a defender of an irresponsible person who keeps guns readily available to a mentally unstable person. When she died, her stupidity died with her, but what about those innocent children?

The definition of tyranny is oppressive power...the definition of oppression an unjust exercise of power. Unjust, oppressive power...this does not only represent an extremist leader who kills at whim and sends his country into an anarchy only imagined in movies, this reflects the moves of a government against it's founding rights in which it supersedes it's citizens in taking liberty of removing their abilities in the name of "safety and protection".

I'd say we're clearly talking about a tyrannical government.
 

anon(631531)

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Nov 3, 2010
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The definition of tyranny is oppressive power...the definition of oppression an unjust exercise of power. Unjust, oppressive power...this does not only represent an extremist leader who kills at whim and sends his country into an anarchy only imagined in movies, this reflects the moves of a government against it's founding rights in which it supersedes it's citizens in taking liberties of removing their abilities in the name of "safety and protection".

I'd say we're clearly talking about a tyrannical government.

I thought we were talking about a tragedy in Connecticut? An irresponsible gun owner, who started a chain of events, which led to not only her death, but the deaths of children. My mistake.:rolleyes:
 

anon(4698833)

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I thought we were talking about a tragedy in Connecticut? An irresponsible gun owner, who started a chain of events, which led to not only her death, but the deaths of children. My mistake.:rolleyes:

Explain exactly how she was an irresponsible gun owner please...by your logic, Glock itself is responsible as it created the gun which was purchased by the mother...if we're going to go on the "chain of events" stance, start from the beginning.

Also, what i said goes hand in hand with the discussion at hand...please don't try to make it seem like i'm skewing completely off topic, gun control and this event are essentially bed fellows now unfortunately, which is my entire point actually.
 

anon(631531)

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Nov 3, 2010
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Explain exactly how she was an irresponsible gun owner please...by your logic, Glock itself is responsible as it created the gun which was purchased by the mother...if we're going to go on the "chain of events" stance, start from the beginning.

Also, what i said goes hand in hand with the discussion at hand...please don't try to make it seem like i'm skewing completely off topic, gun control and this event are essentially bed fellows now unfortunately, which is my entire point actually.

The news media, actually Fox News, reported that she left her guns UNSECURED. She was in the process of having him committed to a mental institution, and he found out about it. Her guns were still unsecured, and he capped her with a Bushmaster.223. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. I believe in that saying, but throw in "irresponsibility", and that changes everything.

P.S. To me Glock is combat tupperware. I'll stick with my Sig.
 

anon(4698833)

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The news media, actually Fox News, reported that she left her guns UNSECURED. She was in the process of having him committed to a mental institution, and he found out about it. Her guns were still unsecured, and he capped her with a Bushmaster.223. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. I believe in that saying, but throw in "irresponsibility", and that changes everything.

P.S. To me Glock is combat tupperware. I'll stick with my Sig.

Fox News said...lol. Reading your comments in the past, I hope you're smarter than to put much investment into those words...

As far as your opinion on Glock, people will always have preferences...I'm of the opinion that the gun is only as effective as the person shooting it, and having both a Sig and a Glock (duty weapon), i can shoot just as accurately with both firearms and feel the Glock is a more effortless ownership experience. To be honest though, I've always found it kind of funny having sour look at a gun, "combat tupperware" that's cute...gets the job done though, and stays accurate without any maintenance really.

The person responsible is the shooter...period. Nobody has enough information to start making pie in the sky assumptions so we'll go with what we know, guy gets gun, shoots mom and a bunch of other people, kills self...blame goes to shooter.
 

anon(631531)

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Fox News said...lol. Reading your comments in the past, I hope you're smarter than to put much investment into those words...

As far as your opinion on Glock, people will always have preferences...I'm of the opinion that the gun is only as effective as the person shooting it, and having both a Sig and a Glock (duty weapon), i can shoot just as accurately with both firearms and feel the Glock is a more effortless ownership experience. To be honest though, I've always found it kind of funny having sour look at a gun, "combat tupperware" that's cute...gets the job done though, and stays accurate without any maintenance really.

The person responsible is the shooter...period. Nobody has enough information to start making pie in the sky assumptions so we'll go with what we know, guy gets gun, shoots mom and a bunch of other people, kills self...blame goes to shooter.

O.K. Sean, let's agree to disagree. :)
 

GingerSnapsBack

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Oct 18, 2011
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The person responsible is the shooter...period. Nobody has enough information to start making pie in the sky assumptions so we'll go with what we know, guy gets gun, shoots mom and a bunch of other people, kills self...blame goes to shooter.

Thank you. That's what I've been saying all along. It's tragic what happened, but even if mom didn't have guns, he still would have heard voices or whatever motivated him to kill those kids and the teachers with something else. Anything can be used as a weapon - even a dead dog.

One thing I want to ask is if this guy had driven a Nissan Maxima through the wall of the school and killed kids, would we blame Nissan? Call for stricter laws on the issuance of drivers licenses?

Why is it when someone massacres people with a gun, it's ban guns! Ban guns! but when someone does it with a car or a baseball bat, no one jumps to ban cars or baseball bats?
 

anon(4698833)

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Sep 7, 2010
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Thank you. That's what I've been saying all along. It's tragic what happened, but even if mom didn't have guns, he still would have heard voices or whatever motivated him to kill those kids and the teachers with something else. Anything can be used as a weapon - even a dead dog.

One thing I want to ask is if this guy had driven a Nissan Maxima through the wall of the school and killed kids, would we blame Nissan? Call for stricter laws on the issuance of drivers licenses?

Why is it when someone massacres people with a gun, it's ban guns! Ban guns! but when someone does it with a car or a baseball bat, no one jumps to ban cars or baseball bats?

It's easy for people to focus on firearms given their nature...a gun is a tool used primarily for one purpose, where as a car is used for a more innocent purpose, thus drawing less focus when used as a weapon. I think the real test for some of the anti-gun crowd would be to remove their ability to buy something more familiar to them...let's say something like a folding knife...they may only ever use it to open boxes or when they are working on something around the house, but let's say someone in their house hold decides one day to just go insane and stab everyone they know to death and kills the neighbors baby too...with a folding knife you see at any Home Depot around the world with no regulation on who buys it or for what purpose.

What then? No more folding knives? Regulations on the sales of them? What about kitchen knives? Razor blades or Box cutters? This guy could have just as easily grabbed a knife and ran into a kindergarden classroom, killed the teacher and the students and then slit his own throat...but because he used a gun, the world is on fire about gun laws and regulations.

Come on people, wake up and smell the coffee...some people are dark, terrible individuals...and when they want to cause harm, they will find a way to do it, whether it be guns or IED's or knives or a length of rope and a tree, they will find a way. Changing laws and regulations because a sicko killed a bunch of people is like punishing a house hold of 5 kids because one of them got bad grades and the rest got straight A's.
 

anon(631531)

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Nov 3, 2010
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What do you disagree with though? That's what I'm curious about...where to place blame?

Why not at the guilty?

O.K., last time around with this. The shooter takes most of the blame for doing what he did, BUT, the Mom has some blame for putting him in the position of being able to do what he did. I'd say it's 75% shooter, and 25% Mom. If she only taught him to use a can opener, would he have tried to kill a whole bunch of kids with it? He knew what he wanted to do, and thanks to Mom, he had the means, the knowledge, and the opportunity to do it. I'm not going on with this Sean. I saw plenty of dead children in Vietnam, and i don't want to dwell on it any more. :(
 

GingerSnapsBack

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Oct 18, 2011
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One thing I will say for everyone here - we've all remained adults during this topic.

I belong to a child free group on Facebook. The same topic came up and JFC...I have no words for what some of the other members were saying about my opinions - the same as I've voiced here - and opinions similar to mine.

I know there are several that disagree with me and I disagree with several of you, but it speaks volumes about the members here that we're able to voice our differences without calling each other selfish gun wielding terrorists or Bible thumping b*tchy nutjobs.
 

anon(4698833)

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Sep 7, 2010
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O.K., last time around with this. The shooter takes most of the blame for doing what he did, BUT, the Mom has some blame for putting him in the position of being able to do what he did. I'd say it's 75% shooter, and 25% Mom. If she only taught him to use a can opener, would he have tried to kill a whole bunch of kids with it? He knew what he wanted to do, and thanks to Mom, he had the means, the knowledge, and the opportunity to do it. I'm not going on with this Sean. I saw plenty of dead children in Vietnam, and i don't want to dwell on it any more. :(

I respect your bowing out of the debate...all i can do is shrug my shoulders at your stance because as you with me, i whole heartedly disagree with you.

There is nothing so far that shows she was negligent in the storage of the firearms, and trying to assign blame because she taught her child a skill (a skill that is taught to teens quite commonly around the world, not just the U.S.A.) is quite a stretch...and certainly not a fair assessment to a corpse that cannot defend herself or explain the environment in which he was taught or for what purpose.

Assumptions...you know the saying. But you're done with it so there's no sense in me wasting anymore time debating your stance.
 

anon(4698833)

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Sep 7, 2010
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One thing I will say for everyone here - we've all remained adults during this topic.

I belong to a child free group on Facebook. The same topic came up and JFC...I have no words for what some of the other members were saying about my opinions - the same as I've voiced here - and opinions similar to mine.

I know there are several that disagree with me and I disagree with several of you, but it speaks volumes about the members here that we're able to voice our differences without calling each other selfish gun wielding terrorists or Bible thumping b*tchy nutjobs.

Anyone that doesn't agree with me is a cantaloupe sucking terrorist...Bam.
 

anon(4698833)

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Sep 7, 2010
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Sensationalist reporting...go figure. And the funny thing is, right from the very start there was a small report of only handguns being used...and that was buried by the media's thirst for that "wow" factor. Nothing starts a panic like the idea that a 20 year old had a bazooka and 25 military grade M-16's, who cares if its accurate, it gets attention...they worry about facts later after their ratings sky rocket.

And all because they want more money...push the poor little kids that never saw 1st grade aside, or the heroes that tried to protect them and lost their lives...pay them no mind, just focus on the shock value, even if we lie and bullsh*t for weeks, we got our ratings.
 

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