Thoughts on the EU doing this?

[Dgray2712]

Saw this video the other day from FPT on YouTube. If this happens, Apple needs to pull out of Europe until they stop this.

 

[Just_Me_D]

Outstanding commentary! The guy in the video puts forth his case expertly and you can’t help but to acknowledge and agree with him. Thank you so much for sharing the link.

 

[FFR]

 

[Wotchered]

I was trying to find something nice or friendly about the country that is the major impetus to all this nonsense, but I can't.

 

[Annie_M]

Outstanding commentary! The guy in the video puts forth his case expertly and you can’t help but to acknowledge and agree with him. Thank you so much for sharing the link.

John Prosser has always posted good videos, but I think this his best. The EU has too much power, and we need to pay very close attentio.

 

[EdwinG]

Disclaimer: I didn’t listen it in full, because it’s way too long. That said, I do know it’s referring to the DMA and DSA.

Whether we like it or not, the EU government is elected by their population and they represent their population.

After all, they are the third biggest population after India and People’s Republic of China.

If it wasn’t for the EU, it would have been another government that would force Apple’s hand. Nothing restricts Apple from limited those additional features to EU phones, like they restrict FaceTime on UAE phones. Even the hardware is different between countries, like different mobile band support or even nanoSIM support (USA’s iPhone 15 models are eSIM only, PRC has dual nanoSIM, rest of the world gets eSIM+nanoSIM)

Also, we just really need more competition in the economy; historically, it’s been proven when there is a monopoly, duopoly or a limited oligopoly, we have increased prices for the same product. Case in point are mobile carriers who acquired all their competitors for loonies, as recently as 2023, now charge $65/month for 50GB of data, with no distinction between them, and change prices on the same day, or grocery stores that are all owned by only 3 companies that take billions of dollars in profit and pay millions in salaries to their CEO while doubling grocery prices.

 

[FFR]

Disclaimer: I didn’t listen it in full, because it’s way too long. That said, I do know it’s referring to the DMA and DSA.

Whether we like it or not, the EU government is elected by their population and they represent their population.

After all, they are the third biggest population after India and People’s Republic of China.

If it wasn’t for the EU, it would have been another government that would force Apple’s hand. Nothing restricts Apple from limited those additional features to EU phones, like they restrict FaceTime on UAE phones. Even the hardware is different between countries, like different mobile band support or even nanoSIM support (USA’s iPhone 15 models are eSIM only, PRC has dual nanoSIM, rest of the world gets eSIM+nanoSIM)

Also, we just really need more competition in the economy; historically, it’s been proven when there is a monopoly, duopoly or a limited oligopoly, we have increased prices for the same product. Case in point are mobile carriers who acquired all their competitors for loonies, as recently as 2023, now charge $65/month for 50GB of data, with no distinction between them, and change prices on the same day, or grocery stores that are all owned by only 3 companies that take billions of dollars in profit and pay millions in salaries to their CEO while doubling grocery prices.

Some points of correction.

Eu govt were elected by the people, eu officials not so much.

FaceTime is not restricted or blocked in the uae.

No idea what carriers has to do with the eu forcing Apple to open up its ecosystem and getting rid of encryption and privacy.

 

[EdwinG]

FaceTime is not restricted or blocked in the uae.

It’s not, according to Apple themselves.



For the other points you make, I won’t get involved. I don’t live in the EU. If one is unhappy, one should contact the person representing their EU constituency instead of complaining on the Internet.

My carrier comparison is more around increased competition, not privacy. One does not preclude the other.

 

[FFR]

It’s not, according to Apple themselves.

View attachment 133167

For the other points you make, I won’t get involved. I don’t live in the EU. If one is unhappy, one should contact the person representing their EU constituency instead of complaining on the Internet.

My carrier comparison is more around increased competition, not privacy. One does not preclude the other.

It’s been working for two years

Even imore reported on it.

I wasn’t the one conflating eu officias with eu governments, one being appointed and the other elected .

No need to “complain on the internet” it’s obvious the eu will back down. Just like they did with iMessage.

Your carrier example was not about disabling security or removing encryption, which is what the eu is asking apple to do, trying to correlate that with competition is quite strange indeed.

The only thing multiple app stores would achieve is increasing the price of apps or subscriptions since Apple would still get a cut from the alternate app stores.

On the other hand can’t wait to see Facebook and google losing control of their apps and services. I don’t believe they can abandon the eu market quite as easily as Apple. It would certainly hurt them financially especially with their respective ad business.

If you think about it without ad and search revenue will google still be able to subsidize android and pixels, don’t think so ,

In a way what the eu is actually doing is killing competition .

 

[EdwinG]

It’s been working for two years

I took the information straight from Apple’s website. I have no idea what‘s going on in the UAE.

I wasn’t the one conflating eu officias with eu governments, one being appointed and the other elected .

No need to “complain on the internet” it’s obvious the eu will back down. Just like they did with iMessage.

The EU has not backed down on iMessage. They are investigating it: https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/6/2...pean-union-commission-digital-markets-act-dma

We will know in a couple of months if they meet the thresholds. I do not know whether they do or not.

Your carrier example was not about disabling security or removing encryption, which is what the eu is asking apple to do, trying to correlate that with competition is quite strange indeed.

That’s not what the EU is requesting. What they are requesting on the messaging services is interoperability. You can interoperate on the device itself.

A good Apple example of that is the extension system that allows to use Dropbox, OneDrive side-by-side with iCloud Drive for file storage.

Basically, an extension system for Messages that can interact with other similar services. They had that on macOS, in a rudimentary way with AIM and XMPP, many years ago. That support gave access to AIM, Google Talk, Facebook Messenger and corporate IM systems.

On the other hand can’t wait to see Facebook and google losing control of their apps and services. I don’t believe they can abandon the eu market quite as easily as Apple. It would certainly hurt them financially especially with their respective ad business.

If you think about it without ad and search revenue will google still be able to subsidize android and pixels, don’t think so ,

Those companies have to reinvent themselves in a way that doesn’t spy on their users. If they don’t, I really hope they fail.

Meta has already started leaving the market I’m in.

 

[FFR]

I took the information straight from Apple’s website. I have no idea what‘s going on in the UAE.


The EU has not backed down on iMessage. They are investigating it: https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/6/2...pean-union-commission-digital-markets-act-dma

We will know in a couple of months if they meet the thresholds. I do not know whether they do or not.

That’s not what the EU is requesting. What they are requesting on the messaging services is interoperability. You can interoperate on the device itself.

A good Apple example of that is the extension system that allows to use Dropbox, OneDrive side-by-side with iCloud Drive for file storage.

Basically, an extension system for Messages that can interact with other similar services. They had that on macOS, in a rudimentary way with AIM and XMPP, many years ago. That support gave access to AIM, Google Talk, Facebook Messenger and corporate IM systems.

Those companies have to reinvent themselves in a way that doesn’t spy on their users. If they don’t, I really hope they fail.

Meta has already started leaving the market I’m in.

That’s why I posted, points of correction as what you claimed was completely inaccurate.

No they backed down, it is no longer considered a gatekeeper, that investigation is just spin to save face.

That is what the eu is requesting, only way to provide interoperable is by removing end to end encryption and privacy on messaging apps, the eu doesn’t care about interoperability, they want to read everyone’s messages.

Those staroge services are not e2ee, they are not interoperable . Files is an app that you give access to your other storage accounts, that solution wouldn’t meet the eus requirement.

You’re getting confused again. Those apps can have more than one messaging service, but that’s not what the eu is mandating. They want the services to be interoperable. e.g. send a message from what’s app and recieve it in iMessages, that cannot be done without removing end to end encryption.

The companies don’t have to reinvent themselves because they are already financially successful, only failing companies reinvent themselves in the hope of gaining financial stability. Without that they go out of business. Those companies are being asked to make changes in order for the government to be able to spy on their users.

Ofcourse the companies will elect to leave a market as you can see. You as the user will have less choices, ie less competition not more as was the point I was making.

 

[Travons]

This is one hot conversation, learnt a lot. Each user stating their point respectively.

Should get you guys to some type of tech-law event this year.

 

[theKHMERboy]

is this basically a similar things then like having iMessage be crossed with non iPhone users?