I'm going to downgrade from a 2017 MPB to a 2015 MBP

donnation

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I think you're missing the reason everyone is migrating to USB-C and away from legacy ports.

USB-A is very limited in data transfer speeds, even USB 3. USB-C allows for incredibly fast data transfer and people want speed above all else.

The power port on the 2015 and older versions could not do the charging speeds available with USB-C. Again, people want speed, especially when charging.

Removing these ports not only saved space but it simplified things for the user drastically. It allows one connection for everything from video to power to data. It allows for smaller, lighter hardware that if done properly is also safer.

The issue is this technology is relatively new so there aren't a lot of devices utilizing it yet but they are growing rapidly. USB-C will most likely replace HDMI. It also replaces power cables and storage devices are already making the switch. One cable will handle literally everything you need. no more carrying a USB-A, HDMI, power cable and any other cable or adapter. One universal cable for every single device.

The issue is people bought these devices without realizing the technology is in its infancy.

I think you are also simplifying things. USB-C is great. But you don’t need 4 separate places to charge a device.

And being in it’s infancy is part of the reason that just having those ports makes no sense. Apple isn’t even ready for it but they made a pro device that won’t connect to everything you need (including your iPhone) without buying other cables and adaptors.

They could have included the usb-c ports as well as the additional ports. HDMI isn’t being replaced any time in the near future and neither is a card reader. When that time comes these computers will be way outdated anyway so the future proofing argument really doesn’t hold any water.
 

bill.davis

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The 2017 MacBook Pro has basically caused me to decide that after using Macs since 1984, I likely won't buy another.

Ridiculously more expensive and worse, non-upgradable. That might be ok in a low-end Mac, but not a Pro model. In a Pro, it's a death sentence. Unforgivable.

I literally can't afford a maxed out MBP anymore, either. Which is what I have bought for decades, then upgraded later. And the next step down from a maxed out MBP is LESS than I have now.

Apple has screwed the pooch. BADLY.

I might buy a used 2015 MBP or two though, in the hope that after a few more years Apple either drops the prices back again so it's feasible for "the rest of us" to afford to buy a new one every few years, or the prices of flash storage come down enough to accomplish the same thing.

If the damn 2017 had an SD card slot that might be something.

But as it stands, if they don't make them upgradable again, or bring prices back into a ridiculous but at least affordable range, they have lost me as a customer after 30+ years.

Bad move, because I'll take a lot of other customers in my family with me and I am seeing a lot of other similar comments such as ones in this thread, and from long-time customers too. When they start of leave, you really are doomed.
 

TylerLV76

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I think you are also simplifying things. USB-C is great. But you don’t need 4 separate places to charge a device.

Why not? You now can connect an external graphics card, power and a hard drive at the same time, which would not be uncommon.

And being in it’s infancy is part of the reason that just having those ports makes no sense. Apple isn’t even ready for it but they made a pro device that won’t connect to everything you need (including your iPhone) without buying other cables and adaptors.

Thats how technology works. When new technology becomes approved as accepted you either implement it get your customer base used to it or you wait for everyone else to do it. In this case, Apple jumped in around the same time as others like Samsung did. This is how new technology becomes the norm. Same exact way HDMI became the norm.

Also, you don't need a cable to connect your phone. Wireless iTunes works very well in my experience.

They could have included the usb-c ports as well as the additional ports. HDMI isn’t being replaced any time in the near future and neither is a card reader. When that time comes these computers will be way outdated anyway so the future proofing argument really doesn’t hold any water.

That would have drastically raised the cost as well as size, weight and heat of the device. All things people wanted lowered. Instead a $40 adapter can replace all those items while giving you the latest technology.

As for HDMI being replaced, its all a matter of how fast the industry adopts USB-C. Apple, Samsung, LG doing so moves that adoption rate along substantially as opposed to smaller companies.
 

TylerLV76

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I don't know how old some of you are but if you were around, do you remember when beta max went to vhs and how angry people were? Then it shifted to laser discs (what a disaster) and eventually DVD's and now BluRay? Same for 8 tracks to tape then cd's.

Technology evolves and when you get in on the ground floor there are some adjustments needed. Companies can only support old technology (USB-A is very old) for so long and then eventually have to rip the bandaid off and embrace the new technology or they get left behind. Just look at when Apple went from the 30 pin power cord to the lightning cord. People were outraged because they had become used to it.
 

donnation

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Why not? You now can connect an external graphics card, power and a hard drive at the same time, which would not be uncommon.



Thats how technology works. When new technology becomes approved as accepted you either implement it get your customer base used to it or you wait for everyone else to do it. In this case, Apple jumped in around the same time as others like Samsung did. This is how new technology becomes the norm. Same exact way HDMI became the norm.

Also, you don't need a cable to connect your phone. Wireless iTunes works very well in my experience.



That would have drastically raised the cost as well as size, weight and heat of the device. All things people wanted lowered. Instead a $40 adapter can replace all those items while giving you the latest technology.

As for HDMI being replaced, its all a matter of how fast the industry adopts USB-C. Apple, Samsung, LG doing so moves that adoption rate along substantially as opposed to smaller companies.

You can do all of that on older MacBooks without just USB-C.


Sadly, you can’t wirelessly charge an iPhone by sitting it on top of your MacBook Pro. You need a USB-C to lightning, which is a cable that Apple doesn’t ship with their phones. Interesting you mention wireless transfer. I agree that’s great (albeit slower) but you can’t actually do that until you physically connect the devices first so you’ll need an adaptor or additional cable.

And yes, I realize an adaptor can do all of that. My whole point is that it sure was nice not needing an adaptor for every single thing I wanted to connect to my MacBook and not having to spend additional money for the already most expensive laptop on the market.
 

TylerLV76

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You can do all of that on older MacBooks without just USB-C.

eGPU requires USB-C (Thunderbolt 3).

Sadly, you can’t wirelessly charge an iPhone by sitting it on top of your MacBook Pro. You need a USB-C to lightning, which is a cable that Apple doesn’t ship with their phones. Interesting you mention wireless transfer. I agree that’s great (albeit slower) but you can’t actually do that until you physically connect the devices first so you’ll need an adaptor or additional cable.

I admit, I have never charged my phone from my computer. Entirely too slow and drains the laptop battery. And yes you are also correct about needing a USB adapter or USB-C to lightening cable but these adapters can be had for less than $5.

And yes, I realize an adaptor can do all of that. My whole point is that it sure was nice not needing an adaptor for every single thing I wanted to connect to my MacBook and not having to spend additional money for the already most expensive laptop on the market.

Ok I will say yes, it was nice. I just got rid of my 2015 and thought id miss it but I don't at all because it was so easily overcome and knowing the advantages USB-C brings to the table. Again, thats not for everyone but Im a techaholic so it intrigues me more than anything. I also do appreciate the smaller form factor and lighter weight. I rarely plug anything into my 2017 besides power. Any video goes through Airplay and all my backups are done wirelessly. When I do get a client who hands me an sd card, I just use my adapter which I must say I like way more than the 2015 sd reader because I don't need a microsd adapter anymore since my adapter has a specific slot for those.

Truthfully, the only thing I really miss is the light up logo. As petty as that is, I dug it.
 

lusid1

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I switch between a 2015 (work) and a 2017 (personal) every day. There is a lot I don't like about the 2017 but I'll just comment on the port problem. Sure, USB-C ports are awesome, but nothing in the real world natively uses USB-C. People keep sticking with the fantasy the the world will "catch up", but it's been 2 years now with zero observable progress. I need an adapter for every.single.thing.I.need.to.connect.to.in.the.wild. Even within my personal home/office realm, I can't wholesale replace everything with USB-C, because this laptop is the only device that uses it. The work laptop is a 2015 with all native ports and a couple TB2 ports, the phones and tablets are all lightning connectors and the cables need USB-A. Every other PC, Server, & Laptop I touch uses native ports. USB-C is just the port that dongles plug into, so I call them what they are; dongleports.
 
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bill.davis

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I would prefer it if they called the "Genuis Bar" the "Apple Repair Center" like a normal company.

They do. The Genuis Bar is not their repair center. It is the name of their customer support counter in Apple Stores. Small repairs might occur there, screen or battery replacement mostly, but anything bigger is done elsewhere.
 

donnation

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I would prefer it if they called the "Genuis Bar" the "Apple Repair Center" like a normal company.

What does it matter? They can call it whatever they want. Are they genius’s? Probably not. Are Geek Squad employees all geeks? Well, probably, but they don’t appreciate being called as such.
 

TylerLV76

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Sure, USB-C ports are awesome, but nothing in the real world natively uses USB-C. People keep sticking with the fantasy the the world will "catch up", but it's been 2 years now with zero observable progress.

Sorry, but what? There are USB-C thumb drives and hard drives readily available at brick and mortar stores. The main devices that need USB-C are already available and have been for a while. Its also standard for a good amount of phones as well. Lets not forget power banks that are now able to charge these USB-C devices. Then theres monitors like the Asus zen screen that uses one USB-C cable for power and video.

HDMI was around for 5 years before it become the standard for televisions. It released in 2002 and didn't become standard until 2007 for 90% of TV's. 2 years is not a lot of time.
 

anony_mouse

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Sorry, but what? There are USB-C thumb drives and hard drives readily available at brick and mortar stores. The main devices that need USB-C are already available and have been for a while. Its also standard for a good amount of phones as well. Lets not forget power banks that are now able to charge these USB-C devices. Then theres monitors like the Asus zen screen that uses one USB-C cable for power and video.

HDMI was around for 5 years before it become the standard for televisions. It released in 2002 and didn't become standard until 2007 for 90% of TV's. 2 years is not a lot of time.

True, but the point is the USB C is not yet common. I use USB devices every day and not a single one is USB C yet. It may make sense to drop standard USB ports eventually, but to make an expensive laptop today which doesn't even have one is a pity and a shame.
 

TylerLV76

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True, but the point is the USB C is not yet common. I use USB devices every day and not a single one is USB C yet. It may make sense to drop standard USB ports eventually, but to make an expensive laptop today which doesn't even have one is a pity and a shame.

Your usb devices are considered dated technology. You could upgrade them if you want or you can continue to use them as you are. That doesn't mean that the devices with USB-C aren't available though.

This is how companies move to the future. Its standard business practice to adopt new technology and leave dated technology behind. It forces consumers and suppliers to get on board which in turn grows the market for the new technology. This is exactly how TV manufacturers did it as well as computer manufacturers have done it for years. The longer hardware maintains older tech, the slower new tech becomes the norm.

They didn't take away the ability to use older tech, they gave you a way to adapt to it relatively easily and cheaply. A $4 adapter allows you to use every single USB-A device you currently have by adding a 1/2" piece of hardware.
 

lusid1

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True, but the point is the USB C is not yet common. I use USB devices every day and not a single one is USB C yet. It may make sense to drop standard USB ports eventually, but to make an expensive laptop today which doesn't even have one is a pity and a shame.

Thats it exactly. I can buy USB-C stuff, it is readily available (yeah?) for a few of the more common accesories. But if I do that, it will only work on one of my devices. I've bought all the little widgets; USB-AtoC adaptiods, USB3-mini to USB C cables for my external drives, USB-C to HDMI adapters for my displays, etc. But out there in the real world, I've never seen a USB-C USB stick outside of a store, and I've been in exactly 1 conference room that had a USB-C to HDMI cable attached to its projector. I've run into VGA more often than USB-C.

Maybe someday they'll be ubiquitous, but the laptop I am carrying today will have been retired before that happens, and I will have spent an entire hardware cycle wrestling with dongles.
 

TylerLV76

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Nobody forced anyone in this thread to buy a computer with ports they didn't want to utilize. You all made the conscious choice to spend your money on a device that didn't have legacy ports. Other laptops (even MacBooks) are available that don't have USB-C.

The old ports are never coming back, nor should they.
 

lusid1

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The old ports are never coming back, nor should they.

Maybe, but the old plugs will never go away either. I was on a job last week setting up some equipment and needed to connect to 2 serial ports at a time plus ethernet. My dongle load out was 2x USB-C->USB-A->USB2Serial->Network device, plus a USB-C->USB-A->Ethernet adapter->Network, and the power cable. I'm frequently connecting to serial devices in the wild, need ethernet almost daily, and encounter projectors ranging from VGA, to DVI, to HDMI. I've got the big bag-o-dongles to make it all work, its just super kludgy and its a decade away from changing in any meaningful way.
 

anony_mouse

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Your usb devices are considered dated technology. You could upgrade them if you want or you can continue to use them as you are. That doesn't mean that the devices with USB-C aren't available though.

This is how companies move to the future. Its standard business practice to adopt new technology and leave dated technology behind. It forces consumers and suppliers to get on board which in turn grows the market for the new technology. This is exactly how TV manufacturers did it as well as computer manufacturers have done it for years. The longer hardware maintains older tech, the slower new tech becomes the norm.

They didn't take away the ability to use older tech, they gave you a way to adapt to it relatively easily and cheaply. A $4 adapter allows you to use every single USB-A device you currently have by adding a 1/2" piece of hardware.

This post utterly misses the point.

If new technology is better, it will be adopted. It does not have to forced by anyone. We no longer use serial or parallel ports, and VGA is on the way out. I don't mind if my next laptop doesn't have those ports. But standard USB is ubiquitous. Within a few meters of where I'm sitting there are half a dozen devices with standard USB ports, and zero with USB-C ports. Some of these products are less than six months old. I *have to* use standard USB on a daily basis.

If USB-C is superior (and it is), put it on new products. But keep standard USB too until it is no longer widely used.

You are completely wrong about TV manufacturers behaving like this.

To repeat, companies should not try to drive out old technology like this. When new technology actually brings benefits, we will adopt it ourselves. But let us decide.
 

TylerLV76

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To repeat, companies should not try to drive out old technology like this. When new technology actually brings benefits, we will adopt it ourselves. But let us decide.

Except thats exactly how new technology becomes the norm. Been that way for decades. You should know this by now being an Apple user. Lightening port is a prime example.
 

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