Apple includes 5c and 5s numbers together

[jmr1015]

Re: No one knows how much the 5c has sold

That's fine. But I have different needs. I can't stay in one place for two years and use the same carrier. And there have been issues, many, with getting those unlocks. But that's not my problem.

1) what needs might those be.
2) no where has anyone or any of the literature posted said you need to stay in one place for two years and use the same carrier.

as stated on AT&Ts website

-Your device must be paid for in full.

If you pay for a device in full, you are not on a 2-year contract. Ergo, you do not need to stay with that carrier for two years.

and 3) most people having trouble unlocking phones are buying used phones, stolen phones, or phones from people who got them subsidized and on contract as an upgrade, and sold it for near full price for a profit over the subsidized price. I've have seen very few instances of people buying phones brand new and full price, and carriers refusing to unlock them.

and again, this all shouldn't even apply to T-Mobile contract free iPhones sold directly from Apple. It should come unlocked already.

 

[jmr1015]

Re: No one knows how much the 5c has sold

Okay. We're going too far off topic, we have to reel it back in.

A real product launch failure would be something that they would want to discontinue. Or maybe there's just not enough room in this town for both of the iPhones.

Who knows.

I don't want to say that anyone is wrong. I mean, the numbers were never revealed.

Maybe we'll never see the 5c again. Maybe Apple is hiding a colossal secret.

Many places have reported the 5S is outselling the 5C at a margin of 2-to-1. Apple announced they sold 9 million iPhones release weekend. Simple extrapolation would lead us to around 3 million iPhone 5Cs release weekend.

Also, reports estimated around 2.2 million iPhone 5C preorders. More than the iPhone 5 last year.

Apple also announced 38 million total iPhone sales for the quarter. That means over a third of total iPhone sales for the entire fiscal quarter can be attributed to the 5S & 5C... just over the launch weekend, since 9 million alone were moved over release weekend. I'm sure many millions more were moved between then, and the end of the quarter about a week later.

In short, many companies would kill for one of their devices to "fail" as much as the iPhone 5C. 3 million phones over a weekend is nothing to sneeze at.

 

[Auturi]

Re: No one knows how much the 5c has sold

Okay. We're going too far off topic, we have to reel it back in.

A real product launch failure would be something that they would want to discontinue. Or maybe there's just not enough room in this town for both of the iPhones.

Who knows.

One of us is wrong and one of us is right but we can't say because the numbers were never revealed.

Maybe we'll never see the 5c again. Maybe the iPhone 6 will be more like the 5c. When you look at the reviews of the 5C, none of them are bad reviews, they're all good. It's just that people aren't even going to try one because the 5s is out. Personally, I think that the 5C is a nice deviation from what we've been seeing with the S models. Same outer design.

I hate plastic. But the 5c gives you a reason to actually like it.

This time we got something different. It goes with iOS 7 and feels more sleek. It stands up among the top phones and there's nothing that can stop it. The App Store is still playing catch up to the A6.

And now that I have one, I'm not bothered to get the 5S.

 

[Auturi]

Re: No one knows how much the 5c has sold

Many places have reported the 5S is outselling the 5C at a margin of 2-to-1. Apple announced they sold 9 million iPhones release weekend. Simple extrapolation would lead us to around 3 million iPhone 5Cs release weekend.

Also, reports estimated around 2.2 million iPhone 5C preorders. More than the iPhone 5 last year.

Apple also announced 38 million total iPhone sales for the quarter. That means over a third of total iPhone sales for the entire fiscal quarter can be attributed to the 5S & 5C... just over the launch weekend, since 9 million alone were moved over release weekend. I'm sure many millions more were moved between then, and the end of the quarter about a week later.

In short, many companies would kill for one of their devices to "fail" as much as the iPhone 5C. 3 million phones over a weekend is nothing to sneeze at.

Yep, but Apple wasn't willing to say. You know the funny thing about this is just last month we all had the high-end phone and now all of a sudden things have changed. I like it when technology is able to prove itself. You know I could go out and buy a Wi-Fi ac router yeah it's technically the best technology but why would I do that? I can't use it.

Of course I'm not going to condemn Apple for making a future proof phone, but the battery life was what I was after.

And that's another point, what if we don't get that iPhone 6 next September. What if Apple is future proofing the iPhone 5s to keep it around for a little bit longer. Until they start making use of the A7?

 

[Fausty82]

Re: NO ONE knows how much the 5c has sold!

Yet, we're getting all kinds of crazy stories. When the whole thing started, the media first said that Apple would be making a low cost version of the phone that would lose features and come with things like 3G and stuff like that.

The "media" got it wrong. Very wrong.

When that didn't happen, they wondered why it was so expensive. Even though the phone is actually the high quality product you expect. On top of that, there is an illusion of sales numbers between the overproduced 5c and underproduced 5s. When the 5s arrived, only 2 to 3 gold models of the phone were available at any given store.

The 5C was never supposed to be inexpensive. Apple does things as they see fit. And judging from their financial reports, it’s working out quite well for Apple. Whether the shortage of gold 5S models was real or artificial, it has helped Apple stay in the press... and the "gold rush" continues to this day. The reports of sales ratios between the 5C and the 5S could be right. They could be wrong. Apple doesn't report to that level of granularity. That is totally their prerogative.

I could say, well, no one cares how many it sold. These are S and C models, neither are new new iPhones.

Both are new iPhones. These are iPhones that were not available last year. Call them incremental updates. Call them what you will... they are new iPhones. Both of them.

What is your point in all of this?

 

[Auturi]

Re: No one knows how much the 5c has sold

If what they say is right... "there isn't enough room in this town for the two of us."

Then that means Apple's growth can't be sustained. That means they failed to create a middle tier market. Apple, and others believe they succeeded .. but others believe otherwise.

I mean just think if it was the same thing for the MacBooks. And the iPads. What if no one bought the Airs and everyone bought the Pros? What if no one bought the mini's and everyone only bought the full size?

Just the thought that Apple couldn't make a middle tier phone successful is disastrous. That no one was buying the 5c and everyone bought the 5s. I for one was always the type that bought middle tier and hardly ever went for the high end. Even though I was coming from a 5.

I don't think I'd have any trouble selling the 5c when the 6 comes out as I have been told.

Now that I have the 5c, it's a wonder why people are trying to convince me that I should get the 5s instead. Is there a real benefit?

 

[Fausty82]

Re: No one knows how much the 5c has sold

If what they say is right... "there isn't enough room in this town for the two of us."

Then that means Apple's growth can't be sustained. That means they failed to create a middle tier market. Apple, and others believe they succeeded .. but others believe otherwise.

I mean just think if it was the same thing for the MacBooks. And the iPads. What if no one bought the Airs and everyone bought the Pros? What if no one bought the mini's and everyone only bought the full size?

Just the thought that Apple couldn't make a middle tier phone successful is disastrous. That no one was buying the 5c and everyone bought the 5s. I for one was always the type that bought middle tier and hardly ever went for the high end. Even though I was coming from a 5.

I don't think I'd have any trouble selling the 5c when the 6 comes out as I have been told.

Now that I have the 5c, it's a wonder why people are trying to convince me that I should get the 5s instead. Is there a real benefit?

If, if, if, if... none of your "if" scenarios are true. Everyone is not buying MBPs instead of MBAs. Everyone is not buying iMacs instead of Mac Minis. Everyone is not buying the iPhone 5s instead of the iPhone 5c.

If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, every day would be Christmas. But it?s not. And your argument falls apart very early on. Apple never said the iPhone 5c was an inexpensive or a middle tier phone. That was the handiwork of the media and the talking heads. They got it wrong, and Apple still cleaned up.

 

[Auturi]

Re: No one knows how much the 5c has sold

If, if, if, if... none of your "if" scenarios are true. Everyone is not buying MBPs instead of MBAs. Everyone is not buying iMacs instead of Mac Minis. Everyone is not buying the iPhone 5s instead of the iPhone 5c.

If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, every day would be Christmas. But it’s not. And your argument falls apart very early on. Apple never said the iPhone 5c was an inexpensive or a middle tier phone. That was the handiwork of the media and the talking heads. They got it wrong, and Apple still cleaned up.

Actually, ... well Apple's intention for the 5c is to be middle tier. They just said that today. It was the media that said that they were aiming the 5c for China.

I wonder how the 5c is selling there by the way.

 

[Alik Malix]

Re: No one knows how much the 5c has sold

I love these threads: Auturi, I've read all the posts on this thread - it was pure entertainment - you are/were wrong on so many points:

1. iPhone 5S/5C difference in sales were reported by retailers and carriers (not Apple) initially and they were generally 2-1 or 3-1 with iPhone 5S outselling the 5C.
2. Due to many pre-launch reports it was deemed that the market was already saturated, and that was the reason for a bad launch of iPhone rivals such as Galaxy S4 and HTC One, etc. After the launch - all that was proved as moot - Apple sold it's entire inventory of 5S and nearly all 5C models (there were reports that even 5C was not available at some point). Following the launch weekend, 5S were delivered by Apple as fast as they can be produced, 5C models were still selling but not as much as 5S, thus 5C was readily available when 5S was not. Recently Apple reduced the orders for 5C to direct it's production for 5S due to higher demand then expected - THAT IS AN AWESOME THING. But bottom line - 5C sold more than flagship phones of rival manufacturers.
3. 5C was not designed to be a cheap phone but another alternative that Apple was able to sell cheaper than the 5S.
4. 5C is a slightly improved iPhone 5: Bigger Battery, Improved Camera and Sensors, Cellular and Data for other countries, and pre-installed iOS7.
5. It will be a long time until some Apps will not run on 5C that run on 5S and only because the App Store is much more organized, streamlined, and handpicked by Apple unlike the competition (Dont forget, Apple invented this type of 3rd Party App Store such as the ones used by competition).
6. Lets talk about 5S: Bigger Battery, Improved Camera and Sensors, First in the world 64bit (A7) processor on a mobile with ability to easily run 32bit software. 3 or 4 times GPU upgrade (for console level gaming), Fingerprint technology with unprecedented accuracy and comfort. No iPhone before had a secondary (M7) processor, and ability to launch in so many various markets.
7. 5S's 64bit architecture had 64bit designed games/apps for it the day it was launched - so YES, 5S is already taking advantage of the 64bit processor - You think Touch ID would work this quickly/accurately on a 32bit processor? Everything literally loads faster and smoother than the iPhone 5 (my wife's phone).
8. And for the last time, when you buy an iPhone (any) from any Carrier or Retailer for full price - you can get it unlocked as long as it's PAID OFF IN FULL. If you're worried about carriers changing something to the iPhone - you are WRONG. Apple is the only manufacturer that does NOT let anyone tweak/change their product: Not Software, Not Hardware. You're probably thinking of Android phones with all the system level bloatware, and printed logo's on the case, and software overlays - NOT ON iPHONE, EVER!
9. Stop saying that "no one is buying 5C" - 5C is selling better then most flagship phones of other manufacturers (compare sales figures). It's just that iPhone 5S is selling even better. And (you wanted to know), China is or was sold out of 5S just like U.S. Everyone got it wrong - it's not a saturated market, it's just not many people wanted to buy much until Apple releases their stuff.
10. I bet Apple would have sold so, so much more if they could build them fast enough. Don't forget Apple readied 4million more iPhones for the U.S. launch than it did when they launched iPhone 5 which sold 5 million at launch, it's simple math - they ran out of phones after selling 9 million - so NO, Apple did not create a fake demand by supplying limited iPhones - it had trouble keeping up with demand regardless of the extra inventory they had ready for the launch.

 

[Auturi]

Re: No one knows how much the 5c has sold

Ah, you touched on all the important points with the truth. And was right about most everything.

This is what the articles should be talking about. It just makes a lot of sense. I wish everyone knew as much as you do.

 

[warcraftWidow]

Re: No one knows how much the 5c has sold

There are already many apps out there that specifically make use of the A7 and/or the M7 which are only available on the 5S. Off the top of my head-Infinity Blade III, vjay, djay, many exercise/step counting apps. I'm sure there are lots of others.
Maybe apps you are interested in are not utilizing the A7, but to make a blanket statement that "the AppStore is still catching up to the A6" is false.

 

[Auturi]

Re: No one knows how much the 5c has sold

I hope the market becomes bigger. With the A5 to A6 upgrade, I immediately saw boosts in speed as far as with processing. There was an app that I'd use to make music. Importing and Exporting times were cut in half!

With the A7, maybe you'd get the same kind of functionality. It's just that with Infinity Blade 3, I'm not sure what I'm looking for. It's not really a game that I want. But I hope they do come out with some stuff that shows more of what the A7 can do. I encourage it.

 

[warcraftWidow]

Re: No one knows how much the 5c has sold

I hope the market becomes bigger. With the A5 to A6 upgrade, I immediately saw boosts in speed as far as with processing. There was an app that I'd use to make music. Importing and Exporting times were cut in half!

With the A7, maybe you'd get the same kind of functionality. It's just that with Infinity Blade 3, I'm not sure what I'm looking for. It's not really a game that I want. But I hope they do come out with some stuff that shows more of what the A7 can do. I encourage it.

Well I listed several other apps that make extensive use of the A7 including ones doing audio and video mixing which the dev have specifically said could only be done with the A7.

And from personal experience with the 5 and the 5S, the 5S is faster in general.
10 frame per second burst more on the camera is only available on the 5S because the 5 and prior models are kit capable of that speed.

 

[Auturi]

Re: No one knows how much the 5c has sold

Oh, yeah; the video and audio mixing with the 1080p playback and the faster processing times. That's good. It's a good start.

 

[wbkm85]

Re: No one knows how much the 5c has sold

who really cares?

 

[Auturi]

Re: No one knows how much the 5c has sold

who really cares?

Huh? About what? I don't know.

Customer satisfaction with the 5C is high, there's been no complaints. The phone is pretty much flawless.

 

[wbkm85]

Re: No one knows how much the 5c has sold

Huh? About what? I don't know.

Customer satisfaction with the 5C is high, there's been no complaints. The phone is pretty much flawless.

that was my point

I was saying who cares how many have been sold

it's an excellent phone; shouldn't matter

 

[Auturi]

Re: No one knows how much the 5c has sold

that was my point

I was saying who cares how many have been sold

it's an excellent phone; shouldn't matter

Currently we are on the cusp of the unknown. But in the next few quarters the gap between the 5c and 5s will grow, especially when the 5s becomes a commodity.


This is because Apple did not do a good job of market differentiation. There are 3 versions of the iPhone 5. The 5, the 5C and the 5S. They're all the same phone with different features. But Apple doesn't market it like that, they market these products as if they are completely new and separate.

That's why people are saying the iPhone 5c fails because they're treating it as if it was a competitor product. How would Apple fix that? Well, if the 5c is it's own product they would want to add more features to it, give it it's own website while they're at it, right?

This is also why Apple has included both sales figures together. They're both the same phone.

 

[jmr1015]

Re: No one knows how much the 5c has sold

Currently we are on the cusp of the unknown. But in the next few quarters the gap between the 5c and 5s will grow, especially when the 5s becomes a commodity.

The gap between the 5S and 5C will most likely grow. This has nothing to do with the commoditization of any iPhone. The iPhone 5S will not become a commodity. No iPhone has, and the 5S isn't going to start. I'm not sure you grasp the concept of a commodity.

This is because Apple did not do a good job of market differentiation. There are 3 versions of the iPhone 5. The 5, the 5C and the 5S. They're all the same phone with different features. But Apple doesn't market it like that, they market these products as if they are completely new and separate.

If the 5S, 5C, and 5 were "all the same phone" and if Apple didn't do a good job at market differentiation with the iPhone 5S and 5C... this would lead to a couple scenarios that just aren't happening in reality. One, people wouldn't want the 5C or 5S over the 5... since they are all the same. Two, the 5C would be outselling the 5S, since they are the same, and the 5C is cheaper. Or at minimum, they would be selling 1-to-1 as most people wouldn't see a reason to buy one over the other. Since absolutely all the real world data disputes this, we can assume Apple was very successful at market differentiation with the 5S and 5C, versus the 5, and versus each other.

That's why people are saying the iPhone 5c fails because they're treating it as if it was a competitor product. How would Apple fix that? Well, if the 5c is it's own product they would want to add more features to it, give it it's own website while they're at it, right?

This is also why Apple has included both sales figures together. They're both the same phone.

The 5C is its own product. If you added additional features, reducing the difference between it, and the 5S, then it would cease to be its own product. and why would Apple give the iPhone 5C its own website? Does the iPhone 5S have its own website?

Apple has included both sales figures together, because they announced iPhone sales... and they are both iPhones. Just like they release Mac sales, and don't break it down to how many were iMac 21.5 " and how many were 27", and how many were Mac Mini, and so on and so forth.

 

[Auturi]

Re: No one knows how much the 5c has sold

I guess it kind of goes to show that even if it's just a minor tweak, a product can be completely new. There's always those comments that the iPhone 5c is basically the iPhone 5 in different packaging, but there are a few minor tweaks that would make that statement quite false.

I mean when you walk into the store and you go to buy a 5c or 5s, you already know you're not getting the 5. You don't even think about the 5.

Basically I thought of it like this, are you going to get the phone that looks and feels different... or will you get the phone that looks and feels the same?