Apple employees launch petition over return-to-office orders

Just_Me_D

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Apple must encourage flexible work? Seriously? Apple is requiring employees to work in the office 3 out of 5 days. Is that not being flexible. They could demand staff be at the office all 5 days.

It doesn’t matter if you can do the work at home and it is not your call to make. That’s how it is when you’re an “employee”.
 

Annie_M

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It seems more than flexible to me. I just don't get this mentality, which is really beginning to get on my nerves! LOL!
 

FFR

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3 days a week is a pretty good deal.

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grover5

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Apple must encourage flexible work? Seriously? Apple is requiring employees to work in the office 3 out of 5 days. Is that not being flexible. They could demand staff be at the office all 5 days.

It doesn’t matter if you can do the work at home and it is not your call to make. That’s how it is when you’re an “employee”.

Not really. If my employer doesn’t offer me the best deal then I shop my services for an employer that does. And when that employer fails to continue to compete with what I can get elsewhere then they lose. Whenever I sit for an interview I make sure to interview the potential employer to make sure they are offering what I want and expect. I have turned down jobs because the employer failed the interview process. Employees aren’t indentured servants.
 

Just_Me_D

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Not really. If my employer doesn’t offer me the best deal then I shop my services for an employer that does. And when that employer fails to continue to compete with what I can get elsewhere then they lose. Whenever I sit for an interview I make sure to interview the potential employer to make sure they are offering what I want and expect. I have turned down jobs because the employer failed the interview process. Employees aren’t indentured servants.

But that’s you exercising your option to choose a different employer of which I would recommend to Apple employees if they dislike Apple’s mandate. However, while still being employed by Apple, they need to show up to the office on the days they’re supposed to and do what they’re being paid to do.
 

FFR

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Not if it adds no value. Then it’s just a waste of your time and the money you put in your gas tank.

Quite true,
However that depends on the contract they signed. And if the contract mandates a 5 day in office work week, and apple is offering 3 days in office, then I maintain that is a great deal.

To be fair apple isn’t responsible for the currant gas prices that go in said tank.
 

Just_Me_D

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Not if it adds no value. Then it’s just a waste of your time and the money you put in your gas tank.

That is not a waste of time. What is a waste of time, however, is trying to bully your employer. Everyone of us do what we have to do to provide for our ourselves and our families. Some people drive an hour or more to work and then an hour or more back home after work.

To them, the hour drive is worth it even though they’d prefer not have to drive that far. When something similar is near to where they live and the pay is equal or more, then I’m sure they’ll snag it, but until then, they’re going to continue doing what they have to do to keep the bills paid and food on the table.
 

Annie_M

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My husband was telling me about a situation in his office. When everyone was called back after the pandemic, one of his coworkers said that he might consider it. Of course, he's still expecting to be employed. The audacity...
 

anon(50597)

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That is not a waste of time. What is a waste of time, however, is trying to bully your employer. Everyone of us do what we have to do to provide for our ourselves and our families. Some people drive an hour or more to work and then an hour or more back home after work.

To them, the hour drive is worth it even though they’d prefer not have to drive that far. When something similar is near to where they live and the pay is equal or more, then I’m sure they’ll snag it, but until then, they’re going to continue doing what they have to do to keep the bills paid and food on the table.

I'll add my opinion but want to respect what others feel also.

As far as bullying your employer, employers have been bullying employees forever. I think what's happening right now is a good thing for all of us. It's been accepted by our our society (I'm specifically speaking about the U.S.) that it's a privilege to work for company X and we should be happy to be getting a paycheck. There has to be a balance and the current generation both understands this and is pushing for it.

Having to drive an hour or more to work just to make a living shouldn't be a standard. We are living in a more modern age and can/should use technology to our advantage.

As far as working 3 days in the office and 2 at home, I think that's pretty fair. It's a compromise. Personally, I enjoy being at work (I couldn't work remotely) and interacting with coworkers, patients and families. At the same time I can see where others might find working alone more productive.
 

Just_Me_D

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My husband was telling me about a situation in his office. When everyone was called back after the pandemic, one of his coworkers said that he might consider it. Of course, he's still expecting to be employed. The audacity...

Audacity indeed. If I were the employer and if that employee failed to show up, I’d terminate his employment with the company. It’s like hiring a builder to build a house according to certain specs and they tell you they don’t like those specs and will build it how they want it built.
 

Just_Me_D

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As an “employer”, I have the right to dictate how, when and where his or her duties are performed.

As an “applicant”, I have the right to either accept the terms or keep looking for something more suitable to what I want.

As an “employee”, I’ve accepted the employer’s terms and have chosen to abide by them.

As a “soon to be terminated employee”, I am opting to renege on the employer’s terms I’ve agreed to accept.

As a “foolish and soon to be terminated disgruntled employee”, I am trying to garner support by appealing to other employees, social media, news media, etcetera because I feel I have the right to force my employer to let me do what I want, where I want and how I want and still be paid for it.

;)
 

Just_Me_D

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I'll add my opinion but want to respect what others feel also.

As far as bullying your employer, employers have been bullying employees forever. I think what's happening right now is a good thing for all of us. It's been accepted by our our society (I'm specifically speaking about the U.S.) that it's a privilege to work for company X and we should be happy to be getting a paycheck. There has to be a balance and the current generation both understands this and is pushing for it.

Having to drive an hour or more to work just to make a living shouldn't be a standard. We are living in a more modern age and can/should use technology to our advantage.

As far as working 3 days in the office and 2 at home, I think that's pretty fair. It's a compromise. Personally, I enjoy being at work (I couldn't work remotely) and interacting with coworkers, patients and families. At the same time I can see where others might find working alone more productive.

Don’t misunderstand me. I respect your opinions and will continue to respect them. You know that. Yes, employers have taken advantage of employees, but employees have also taken advantage of employers.
 

anon(50597)

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Don’t misunderstand me. I respect your opinions and will continue to respect them. You know that. Yes, employers have taken advantage of employees, but employees have also taken advantage of employers.

Improvements in people's lives, all people, occur because someone(s) stood up for what they felt was right. If not, women would not be able to vote, black people wouldn't be able to drink out of a public water fountain or ride a bus and children would still be forced into labor. Those sound like extreme examples but they show how our attitudes, thankfully, have changed over time. My attitude is let this work itself out. We will find common ground and be better for it.

As I said, I believe Apple is working on that and has moved in the right direction. Even, perhaps, a leader. I applaude their openness.
 

Just_Me_D

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Improvements in people's lives, all people, occur because someone(s) stood up for what they felt was right. If not, women would not be able to vote, black people wouldn't be able to drink out of a public water fountain or ride a bus and children would still be forced into labor. Those sound like extreme examples but they show how our attitudes, thankfully, have changed over time. My attitude is let this work itself out. We will find common ground and be better for it.

As I said, I believe Apple is working on that and has moved in the right direction. Even, perhaps, a leader. I applaude their openness.

True, but what Apple is mandating isn’t “wrong”. Certain employees simply don’t want to comply. I’m not saying some of them don’t have a legitimate reason because I’m sure they do, but Apple does not have to bend to their desires and it is NOT wrong for them to mandate employees be in the office 3 days a week.
 

anon(50597)

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True, but what Apple is mandating isn’t “wrong”. Certain employees simply don’t want to comply. I’m not saying some of them don’t have a legitimate reason because I’m sure they do, but Apple does not have to bend to their desires and it is NOT wrong for them to mandate employees be in the office 3 days a week.
As I've stated, I believe Apple is making a fair compromise. Not that it can't be tweaked but they are making an effort. I don't see it as bending but more as changing with the times, much like the technology business they are in.
 

ThePinkChameleon

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I know someone will throw stones at my statement…have at it.

Prior to the Covid situation people were working f/t 5-7 days a week. Driving/commuting to and from work daily to put in their time to earn their paycheck. When Covid hit, everything in time stopped. People were getting paid to stay home and stay “safe”. From there, it became a work from home situation. Now that Covid is dying down and businesses want to get back up to full speed, employees don’t want to go. They’re lazy & now feel entitled. They want to get paid to sit home at their leisure and do their job how ever they please. It just doesn’t work that way.

With that being said, if I was an employer and wanted my staff back full time(no 3 day BS), and my employees pushed back I’d terminate them. There will be someone else next in line willing to take that persons place and pay.
 

anon(50597)

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I know someone will throw stones at my statement…have at it.

Prior to the Covid situation people were working f/t 5-7 days a week. Driving/commuting to and from work daily to put in their time to earn their paycheck. When Covid hit, everything in time stopped. People were getting paid to stay home and stay “safe”. From there, it became a work from home situation. Now that Covid is dying down and businesses want to get back up to full speed, employees don’t want to go. They’re lazy & now feel entitled. They want to get paid to sit home at their leisure and do their job how ever they please. It just doesn’t work that way.

With that being said, if I was an employer and wanted my staff back full time(no 3 day BS), and my employees pushed back I’d terminate them. There will be someone else next in line willing to take that persons place and pay.

I don't think anyone should throw stones at your statement. Perhaps at your theory though.

COVID put a lot of stress on both individuals and companies. People got sick, were in the hospital and died by the millions. I know from experience because I work in a hospital. That means the people left had to work overtime to make up for the loss of coworkers and often in compromising positions. We have all seen how this has slowed down productivity and response time across many businesses.

Now I want to be clear; did some people take advantage of the situation? Yes they did and those people always will. We're talking about everyone else. Due to the loss of employees, for example, many fast food chains were forced to hire people at a much higher rate than they ever would have imagined or go out of business. That refutes the "just terminate them" statement. They're now paying $15 an hour just to try to find people.

I'll give another example. I am a nursing supervisor in a hospital so, technically, management though I am close to the frontline staff because I was an ICU nurse for many years. When COVID hit everyone was scared but kept doing their job despite the scarcity of facts and unavailability of the necessary PPE (masks, gowns, Eyewear, etc). Administration pretty much had the attitude of "just do your job". This was across the nation. The result? Nurses started quiting. An already difficult situation has turned into a crisis. Wait times in our ER, which used to be less than an hour are nor 6-8 or more. This resulted in hiring an unprecedented number of travel nurses and paying up to 3 times what a staff nurse costs. On top of that, they just settled the union contract at our health care system and the nurses got pretty much what they wanted.

What I'm trying to say in a long winded manner is there has to be compromise. There can no longer be "like it or leave". Don't be so sure there is someone standing in line to take that job. The smart companies are adapting to change and will be the ones that survive. I believe Apple is one of those companies.
 

grover5

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I don't think anyone should throw stones at your statement. Perhaps at your theory though.

COVID put a lot of stress on both individuals and companies. People got sick, were in the hospital and died by the millions. I know from experience because I work in a hospital. That means the people left had to work overtime to make up for the loss of coworkers and often in compromising positions. We have all seen how this has slowed down productivity and response time across many businesses.

Now I want to be clear; did some people take advantage of the situation? Yes they did and those people always will. We're talking about everyone else. Due to the loss of employees, for example, many fast food chains were forced to hire people at a much higher rate than they ever would have imagined or go out of business. That refutes the "just terminate them" statement. They're now paying $15 an hour just to try to find people.

I'll give another example. I am a nursing supervisor in a hospital so, technically, management though I am close to the frontline staff because I was an ICU nurse for many years. When COVID hit everyone was scared but kept doing their job despite the scarcity of facts and unavailability of the necessary PPE (masks, gowns, Eyewear, etc). Administration pretty much had the attitude of "just do your job". This was across the nation. The result? Nurses started quiting. An already difficult situation has turned into a crisis. Wait times in our ER, which used to be less than an hour are nor 6-8 or more. This resulted in hiring an unprecedented number of travel nurses and paying up to 3 times what a staff nurse costs. On top of that, they just settled the union contract at our health care system and the nurses got pretty much what they wanted.

What I'm trying to say in a long winded manner is there has to be compromise. There can no longer be "like it or leave". Don't be so sure there is someone standing in line to take that job. The smart companies are adapting to change and will be the ones that survive. I believe Apple is one of those companies.

Well said. There is a scary level of fealty to employers in here. I have no idea why. But it is unfortunate that so many want to embrace inequality and unchallenged and somewhat unbridled authority. Maybe we are moving toward authoritarianism in this country.
 

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