1. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    I'm sure many of you follow sports closer than what we reflect here on the forum. Yesterday, NorthWestern student athletes were given the green light to start a union of student athletes. They talk about how this is primarily focused on the betterment of the students, making sure they are covered by health insurance, treated fairly during hearings and a slew of other reasons...but let's face it, this union is being put into place to argue for the merits of PAYING student athletes (or at least compensating them outside of their standard scholastic assists like scholarships and grants).

    And I, for one, think it's ridiculous.

    These students are essentially given a free ride both in terms scholarships and in terms of the difficulty level of the classes they take. Yes...I know that some student athletes actually run the full gambit of college courses and get a legitimate degree, but let's be realistic here, that is the exception, not the rule. Most of these legitimate college athletes are given elementary level classes to keep them in GPA qualification to play sports for the school.

    So you get a free ride and you get an easy cruise through college. You're able to play sports and get a degree with effort focused on training for sports. How on EARTH is this not enough compensation to a student athlete? How in the world would a person feel that they deserve more (especially considering how much college costs these days)? I mean you're working hard to be the best at a SPORT...while most students have to sit and bust their a$$ to simply squeak by in classes while they amount debt from student loans, and then graduate (eventually) with this mound of cash they owe back in a job market that is offering less and less compensation to degree'ed students in most fields.

    I'm so sick of hearing about how student athletes deserve this and that...what are you guys thoughts on this?
    03-27-2014 07:38 AM
  2. John Yester's Avatar
    Very well said and I agree.

    Boy I wish I got paid when I went to college............
    03-27-2014 09:12 AM
  3. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Very well said and I agree.

    Boy I wish I got paid when I went to college............
    I don't even wish that...I just wish I got a free ride! LOL!
    03-27-2014 11:52 AM
  4. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    I'm sure many of you follow sports closer than what we reflect here on the forum. Yesterday, NorthWestern student athletes were given the green light to start a union of student athletes. They talk about how this is primarily focused on the betterment of the students, making sure they are covered by health insurance, treated fairly during hearings and a slew of other reasons...but let's face it, this union is being put into place to argue for the merits of PAYING student athletes (or at least compensating them outside of their standard scholastic assists like scholarships and grants).

    And I, for one, think it's ridiculous.

    These students are essentially given a free ride both in terms scholarships and in terms of the difficulty level of the classes they take. Yes...I know that some student athletes actually run the full gambit of college courses and get a legitimate degree, but let's be realistic here, that is the exception, not the rule. Most of these legitimate college athletes are given elementary level classes to keep them in GPA qualification to play sports for the school.

    So you get a free ride and you get an easy cruise through college. You're able to play sports and get a degree with effort focused on training for sports. How on EARTH is this not enough compensation to a student athlete? How in the world would a person feel that they deserve more (especially considering how much college costs these days)? I mean you're working hard to be the best at a SPORT...while most students have to sit and bust their a$$ to simply squeak by in classes while they amount debt from student loans, and then graduate (eventually) with this mound of cash they owe back in a job market that is offering less and less compensation to degree'ed students in most fields.

    I'm so sick of hearing about how student athletes deserve this and that...what are you guys thoughts on this?
    'nuf said.......I meant to discuss this earlier when I heard about while driving, but I have been super busy away from home all day. Anyway, it's good to know that someone else see this in the same manner as I do. Thanks for posting this, Sean...
    03-27-2014 07:34 PM
  5. rdiddy_25's Avatar
    I see your point Sean but the amount of money these colleges make is crazy for the student/athletes not be able to make a little. I know some UT football players who were starters on scholarships but have to scrape by just to eat. Think how much money the NCAA/Florida made off Tebow.
    sinfool likes this.
    03-27-2014 08:14 PM
  6. pr1nce's Avatar
    I haven't decided how I feel about this. I agree with Sean and D. However, I also know that the schools make an awful lot of money off the athletes. It's been a big topic of conversation in Chicago for a couple of months.
    03-27-2014 08:38 PM
  7. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    I see your point Sean but the amount of money these colleges make is crazy for the student/athletes not be able to make a little. I know some UT football players who were starters on scholarships but have to scrape by just to eat. Think how much money the NCAA/Florida made off Tebow.
    Who cares? It's a scenario of you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. Let's be honest here...when you were a teenager, if you had to hold down a part time (or even full time job), you weren't making even $25k a year. Hell...going into the military, you don't make **** squat starting out when you're that young. These student athletes ARE getting paid...

    - Scholarships which make their college education completely or close to free (you're talking a substantial amount of money per year)
    - Easy ride THROUGH college (this is payment in itself since most student athletes do not have to experience college courses like a normal student does.
    - They are given an open door to professional sports...this above all else, is what I consider their most defined form of payment. Essentially, their college years are a probation period before they receive their big paychecks.
    - They spend most of their time conditioning and working out...which is what most of us have to do to stay health anyways, but they are doing it as a CAREER, lol!

    ...they are getting paid in so many ways it's not even funny. Who cares how much the Uni's are making.
    03-28-2014 08:35 AM
  8. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Are we going to start paying interns and volunteers next? Will we have to pay High School, Junior High/Middle School, and Elementary School athletes, too, or does a school have to make a certain amount of money first? If that's the case, how much? If the student athlete is allowed to be paid a salary, should the school have the authority to make the student athlete pay for their own uniforms, fitness/training, transportation & lodging, as well as pay the coaching staff for their valuable tutelage? Pandora's box is about to be burst wide open, in my opinion.
    iOS Gravity likes this.
    03-28-2014 11:20 AM
  9. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    How do you determine which athlete makes what? Why should the stand out QB make less than a stand out DB? Or a kicker for that matter? Should they all make the same? Should there be a certain focus paid to a senior starter vs. a freshman starter? What if we start paying black players more than whites? Or preferential treatment in the kinds of pay based on where they are from?

    I can tell you this...if they do decide to pay players in college for playing sports, you can expect the quality of the sport to diminish tremendously.
    Just_Me_D likes this.
    03-28-2014 03:48 PM
  10. kch50428's Avatar
    Separation of school & sports... a community supported/privately funded, club-based system that doesn't involve taxpayer money is where it's headed...
    03-28-2014 04:04 PM
  11. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Separation of school & sports... a community supported/privately funded, club-based system that doesn't involve taxpayer money is where it's headed...
    There's no way they do this. I'd argue that most big schools draw a huge majority of their student base directly from sports popularity.
    03-28-2014 04:45 PM
  12. iOS Gravity's Avatar
    Elementary level courses are being given to athletes and they are getting legit degrees??? This is ridiculous and now they are being paid.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ridicu...hTgH0AiJrQtDMD
    03-30-2014 02:40 PM
  13. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Elementary level courses are being given to athletes and they are getting legit degrees??? This is ridiculous and now they are being paid.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ridicu...hTgH0AiJrQtDMD
    I saw that and literally laughed out loud. What a joke.
    03-30-2014 03:49 PM
  14. sinfool's Avatar
    IMO, a compromise has to be made here. Let's be honest, each uses/needs each other. While the students may be getting special treatment & a so called "free" ride, they're also putting in many extra hours of non game day preparation in the process. The NCAA has gotten away with exploiting students for far too long. The current outdated NCAA/student athlete system is all a facade. The NCAA makes more money than the professional sports leagues even make ...all while clearly monitizing off the likenesses/popularity of their student athletes (which of course they try to deny). Look at what these college coaches are getting paid. It's insane.

    How is it fair that every other college student, non-athletic scholarships included are allowed to earn money for themselves yet student athletes can't? Surely not every college athlete is going to become a professional athlete so why should they be denied the opportunity to prosper off their own likeness (i.e. autographs etc)? It's ridiculous that a student can't make money off themselves but the school can.

    Behind the scenes, both the students & NCAA are guilty of corruption. Those who hold resentment just towards the students are purely jealous IMO.
    03-30-2014 07:11 PM
  15. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    So your stance is that a compromise has to be made simply because the NCAA makes so much money? You gotta do better than that. That's the same generic argument that echoes across the internet. What relevance does the income from the NCAA have on the fact that student athletes should have direct monetary income from their participation in sports? This argument pretends that the students are not compensated HEAVILY as it stands...when that couldn't be further from the truth.

    Figure how much college costs. Add to that the training, conditioning and experience that are offered by the coaches and staff within the programs and the cost of that to your everyday person. Add to that the open use of facilities for both practice, training and personal health benefits compared to what a normal person would pay. Equipment costs...travel costs...I mean I could go on listing stuff all day that would cost your everyday person "X" amount that a student athlete gets for free.

    Figure all of that up, and tell me that a student athlete doesn't get paid.

    And all that while leaving out the drastic easement of the education portion of going to college. LOL! Can you imagine what a person would be willing to pay for that alone?
    03-30-2014 07:39 PM
  16. sinfool's Avatar
    So your stance is that a compromise has to be made simply because the NCAA makes so much money? You gotta do better than that. That's the same generic argument that echoes across the internet. What relevance does the income from the NCAA have on the fact that student athletes should have direct monetary income from their participation in sports? This argument pretends that the students are not compensated HEAVILY as it stands...when that couldn't be further from the truth.

    Figure how much college costs. Add to that the training, conditioning and experience that are offered by the coaches and staff within the programs and the cost of that to your everyday person. Add to that the open use of facilities for both practice, training and personal health benefits compared to what a normal person would pay. Equipment costs...travel costs...I mean I could go on listing stuff all day that would cost your everyday person "X" amount that a student athlete gets for free.

    Figure all of that up, and tell me that a student athlete doesn't get paid.

    And all that while leaving out the drastic easement of the education portion of going to college. LOL! Can you imagine what a person would be willing to pay for that alone?
    You obviously didn't read or understand my argument then. I guess you're the latter, obviously jealous. LOL

    My argument wasn't about how much money the NCAA makes....That's irrelevant. I'm not anti-capitalism.

    You give the impression every student athlete is under scholarship. The everyday joe blow walk-on plays for the love of the game not for the free gym membership. Your comparison to having gym amenities/trainers is laughable. My local recreation center has a free gym with some instruction classes too. So what?

    These athletes are putting their bodies at risk & through rigorous training which could have life long damaging effects on their future health so implying that they receive extra health care/support over what a "normal" person would pay is quite telling on your part. Sounds like more jealousy. I guess they are mere puppets in your eyes.

    My point is that the NCAA puts strict rules against these student athletes from earning ANY monies off "themselves" yet these same universities obviously capitalize off these same popularities/likenesses but vehemently claim they don't. I'm not necessarily saying students should be paid but yes, why can't a "compromise" be made. Tell me why an athlete can't go sell their own autograph if they so choose?

    Students who received academic scholarships are also given a free ride but they aren't forbidden from capitalizing off themselves so why are student athletes who are on scholarship? You don't see the hypocrisy here?

    It's funny that you think I'm saying that the NCAA is making too much money, yet your argument is that the student athletes are already "paid" enough with all the perks they receive. ...oh the hypocrisy. LOL
    03-30-2014 08:42 PM
  17. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    I'm not seeing the hypocrisy. Being a student athlete is not a right. It is a privilege based primarily on the student's athletic abilities. As for them "putting their bodies through rigorous training which could have life long damaging effects on their future health", they can choose NOT to participate, however, because they have aspirations of playing at the highest level - the pros - where they often are greatly compensated, they participate. They themselves weigh the pros and cons and then choose. As for exploiting the students, that's nothing new. Even non-student athletes get exploited starting in grade school. The selling of Girl Scout cookies come to mind. Each year those kids go out there and sell cookies by the truckload earning the school, and other entities tons of money, and yet, they themselves or their parents are not monetarily compensated. Is that fair? Anyway, student athletes go to college already knowing what the rules are, and those who are exceptionally talented know that their payday will eventually arrive. Speaking of that, what about the student athlete who turns pro after spending a year in college? An argument can be made that he or she took advantage of the college or university to advance his or her professional athletic career.
    03-30-2014 09:36 PM
  18. sinfool's Avatar
    I'm not seeing the hypocrisy. Being a student athlete is not a right. It is a privilege based primarily on the student's athletic abilities. As for them "putting their bodies through rigorous training which could have life long damaging effects on their future health", they can choose NOT to participate, however, because they have aspirations of playing at the highest level - the pros - where they often are greatly compensated, they participate. They themselves weigh the pros and cons and then choose. As for exploiting the students, that's nothing new. Even non-student athletes get exploited starting in grade school. The selling of Girl Scout cookies come to mind. Each year those kids go out there and sell cookies by the truckload earning the school, and other entities tons of money, and yet, they themselves or their parents are not monetarily compensated. Is that fair? Anyway, student athletes go to college already knowing what the rules are, and those who are exceptionally talented know that their payday will eventually arrive. Speaking of that, what about the student athlete who turns pro after spending a year in college? An argument can be made that he or she took advantage of the college or university to advance his or her professional athletic career.
    Wow, you're really reaching by trying to equate a Girl Scout cookie fund raiser with a multibillion dollar farm system business. ...and BTW, my reference to them risking their bodies was in response to the other posters comment who alluded student athletes were heavily compensated simply because they received health insurance/training services. Sorry, but I think that's the least the NCAA can do for making millions off them when they could potentially be injured for life etc.

    I swear, you guys can't seem to separate your opinions from what I actually said here. From the beginning, I clearly said that BOTH sides use each other which is why I feel a compromise should be made here...

    What does the privilege or choice to play a sport have to do with someone NOT having the right to earn a specific monetary income? ...especially if you DON'T have a scholarship?

    That's like doing an unpaid internship and that company saying you can't make money working elsewhere.

    Let me explain the hypocrisy again. The entire NCAA system is corrupted. The NCAA/universities vehemently proclaim they don't capitalize off its student athletes identities when in reality they clearly do. According to these universities, students are "not" employees. Whether or not students agree is irrelevant. All the while, these same students aren't allowed to capitalize off their own name/identity but the university does?

    Do you not remember when the Johnny Manziel autograph scandal broke... Hypocrisies were exposed which showed the NCAA was selling Johnny "Football" jerseys on their official site yet they claimed they don't make money off athletes likenesses.

    Online jersey sales highlight NCAA's hypocrisy on amateurism - College Football - Andy Staples - SI.com

    The NFL works with & uses the NCAA as their minor league farm system. So, no matter how you want to spin it, if you choose to pursue professional football aspiraitions ...regardless if you want the education or not, there's not much of a choice but going through the motions of being a "college" student. Collegiate sports has become BIG business first, education second so it's ridiculous for the NCAA to still proclaim it's the other way around. As you said yourself, the ones who expect the big payday aren't sticking around anyway....& both sides know it.
    03-31-2014 03:39 AM
  19. Septembersrain's Avatar
    I agree with you completely. While those of us who are just there for academic reasons struggle both with GPA and financial resources, these people ask for more! I think that a lot of sports players are starting to act similar to actors/actresses. The entitlement and expectations have reached a whole new level.

    As for them risking their bodies or such, they make this choice. If they feel they "Have to" then to me, they are doing it for all the wrong reasons. Yes they should be taken care of physically, an athletes health is very important. I just think if we begin to pay them as if they are professional athletes, they'll only start to demand more like them too. It'll become outrageous.

    Sent from a larger than life device. Using Tapatalk
    03-31-2014 04:34 AM
  20. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    What's with the personal shots? LOL! Give it a break bud...are you capable of having an adult conversation without the elementary school yard pot shots?

    Let's talk about hypocrisy for a second...and inability to define opinions and such. You said a compromise needs to be met...yet your compromise consists of paying the players, and that's it. Do you not see a fairly clear and obvious LACK of compromise here?

    We simply disagree here...differing opinions. You have no higher understanding of this, so please stop pretending like you do.
    Just_Me_D likes this.
    03-31-2014 09:11 AM
  21. rayz336's Avatar
    I feel like something needs to change, especially on the NCAA side. I think some of the things that are considered violations are ridiculous and student athletes should get a small sum. Money spent on student athletes is very rarely money from taxpayers, different pools of money, I think the unions are ok but it's just going to complicate the issue at hand.
    03-31-2014 09:29 AM
  22. sinfool's Avatar
    I've never made a pot shot anymore than yourself. Please quote my elementary potshots. I concur, give it a break bud. I never claimed to have a "higher" understanding yet I'm not sure we're having a conversation if only one side is acknowledging the other. ...and sorry, No, I don't see my opinion as a clear LACK of compromise either. Please elaborate. LOL

    I simply stated my opinion and you stated yours. Yes, I agree our opinions as a whole seem to differ. I NEVER said the players should be paid! Yet, you still continue misrepresenting that is what I've said. I said they should have the "right" to make additional monies off their own likeness (i.e. signing autographs/meet & greets etc.) as any other citizen has the ability to.

    Yes, this would be a "compromise" where as neither the NCAA nor the universities would be paying them. They would be earning their "own" money completely separate from the (2) entities. I don't know how many times I can say it so you can understand.

    You're still implying that the relationship between these schools & students is purely academic when it's clearly not, ...this is big business so to assume otherwise is flawed logic to begin with.

    ....If your feel that my view of compromising falls under your blanket statement that they're already getting paid enough, then that's a different story but at least say that. ...Geez

    Please stop misrepresenting what I'm saying here. I understand others opinions...they make enough, they're already compensated, if only I had these same opportunities, it's never enough, they'll want more etc....and IMO, these are all jealous blanket statements that have absolutely NOTHING to do with my argument.

    I can make the same jealous view about CEO's, it's irrelevant. I have no problem with the NCAA or universities making as much money as they can but not under false pretenses.

    I'm trying to have an adult conversation & I wish you would put your ego aside and do the same. If you still can't understand what I'm saying then I bid you ado. Enjoy patting each other on the back.
    03-31-2014 04:40 PM
  23. Septembersrain's Avatar
    People will always disagree. Can we agree to disagree peacefully? =]


    Sent from the colored one using Tapatalk
    sinfool likes this.
    03-31-2014 04:46 PM
  24. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Wow, you're really reaching by trying to equate a Girl Scout cookie fund raiser with a multibillion dollar farm system business
    No, I am not. You mentioned college athletes being exploited, and I stated that kids are exploited long before reaching college and gave the Girl Scout cookie thing as an example. It too is a big time money maker and have been for a long time.
    . ...and BTW, my reference to them risking their bodies was in response to the other posters comment who alluded student athletes were heavily compensated simply because they received health insurance/training services.
    No problem.
    Sorry, but I think that's the least the NCAA can do for making millions off them when they could potentially be injured for life etc.
    I disagree. Those athletes are trading their talents for playing sports in exchange for a free or significantly reduce college education. Period. They know it, the school knows it and you know it. Some of those kids are courted by various colleges long before they graduate from high school and they end up choosing to go to the college that would benefit them best in regard to his or her education, livelihood, and in regard to getting to the pro level.

    I swear, you guys can't seem to separate your opinions from what I actually said here.
    And you clearly don't have the stomach to entertain an opposing viewpoint.
    From the beginning, I clearly said that BOTH sides use each other which is why I feel a compromise should be made here...
    Despite what you claimed at the beginning, the rest of your argument does not seek a compromise, unless that compromise is in the form of getting the student athlete a paycheck for playing sports. If so, I don't have a problem with your opinion, with the exception that I'm in disagreement.

    What does the privilege or choice to play a sport have to do with someone NOT having the right to earn a specific monetary income? ...especially if you DON'T have a scholarship?
    The student DOES NOT have to play sports, and can choose to work a local gig like many other college students do. You want him or her to be paid to play sports while in college, and I disagree. College is not the pros, and playing sports in college is a privilege, NOT A RIGHT!

    That's like doing an unpaid internship and that company saying you can't make money working elsewhere.
    I don't see it that way.

    Let me explain the hypocrisy again. The entire NCAA system is corrupted.
    In what manner?
    The NCAA/universities vehemently proclaim they don't capitalize off its student athletes identities when in reality they clearly do.
    Explain how they do.
    According to these universities, students are "not" employees.
    True
    Whether or not students agree is irrelevant.
    Okay
    All the while, these same students aren't allowed to capitalize off their own name/identity but the university does?
    You make it seem as if the students had no input in anything when in fact, those students chose to go to their respective colleges & universities based on what they thought was best for them. They knew going in what they were getting into. How many straight A non student athletes have been given tuition-free scholarships simply because they were deemed brilliant? Do you not think that those kids don't go around advertising for the school voluntarily by wearing a shirt bearing the school's name. The school didn't make them wear it. It's the same with student athletes. Playing sports gets those kids noticed by sports lover like us and by pro scouts. That in and of itself is self-advertising.

    Do you not remember when the Johnny Manziel autograph scandal broke
    Yes...
    Hypocrisies were exposed which showed the NCAA was selling Johnny "Football" jerseys on their official site yet they claimed they don't make money off athletes likenesses.
    True...and yet, Johnny football also benefitted. He has been on various magazine covers, newspaper articles, TV talk shows, commercials, and is currently preparing to be drafted into the NFL where he is slated to make millions.

    Online jersey sales highlight NCAA's hypocrisy on amateurism - College Football - Andy Staples - SI.com

    The NFL works with & uses the NCAA as their minor league farm system. So, no matter how you want to spin it, if you choose to pursue professional football aspiraitions ...regardless if you want the education or not, there's not much of a choice but going through the motions of being a "college" student. Collegiate sports has become BIG business first, education second so it's ridiculous for the NCAA to still proclaim it's the other way around. As you said yourself, the ones who expect the big payday aren't sticking around anyway....& both sides know it.
    The same can be said of the unions associated with the education system. They send home a bunch of non-educational material wanting the student or parents to sell merchandise for them in the name of education.
    03-31-2014 05:24 PM
  25. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    People will always disagree. Can we agree to disagree peacefully? =]


    •Sent from the colored one using Tapatalk•
    It's all good, my friend. Both sides are bringing up good points, in my opinion....
    03-31-2014 05:25 PM
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