"God" and Sports

[haxrnick]

'Nuf said...

Lol probably pains you to agree with what I say with our nice avatars.

 

[Just_Me_D]

Lol probably pains you to agree with what I say with our nice avatars.

We're enemy combatants only on the field, my friend, then again, I was feeling great after witnessing the Niners' win over the Falcons until you reminded me of one of the most painful days in my life...(laughing)....I HATE U!

 

[anon(4698833)]

I know the history and background of NASCAR. But by having very public, very specifically Christian prayers, they are turning off a demographic (those with no or a different or no religion) that could be very valuable to advertisers and therefore ultimately to NASCAR and the drivers. Maybe NASCAR has figured this out and decided the trade off was worth it.

What I don't like about public, group prayers like for NASCAR is that even though drivers may not be forced to pray, there is a lot of pressure to conform to it. Just like I mentioned above where there are issues with pressure to conform to religion at the military academies. I have no issues with in-public, but private individual prayers such as Tebow kneeling in the end zone.

NASCAR is a bit like Chick-Fil-A in that they stick to their guns when it comes to their founding beliefs, even if that means it becomes unpopular in certain people's eyes, so be it. They arn't obligated to make everyone happy, and by sticking to their beliefs, they maintain dignity.

As far as pressure to conform, that's a double edged sword...you're citing that they are pressuring people to pray, but you want pressure on them to stop. An interesting concept to me...using the argument of "pressure" by applying such.

Here's the thing that always gets me...when me and my wife have gone to other countries, and experienced different cultures (which many times are heavily influenced by religion), it is almost always viewed as beautiful, something to experience, to "behold" as an outsider looking in (so to speak). Then you come to the United States, and so many have disdain for Christianity because of their own beliefs...so many want to announce to the world that they don't agree with what's going on (IE: public prayer), yet in other countries, these same kinds of people are very much accepting and even respectful to religious performances or expositions. That always makes me curious...I can watch and be in the middle of a Buddhist ceremony, of which i disagree or have no real relation to, i can even observe it in an honorable stance even if it goes against what i believe to be true, what i have faith in...why is this so hard for others?

I don't typically talk about religion or politics, and the reason is because I'm of a belief that neither need explanation from myself why i believe in mine, nor justification from someone else why they believe theirs...but i do wish a more respectful observation could be had of my own beliefs public exhibitions, especially in an arena where it should be expected. I don't ask for anyone to fall into it, believe it or feel obligated to participate, just as i would not feel those things at a quiet and private dinner table where my family pray's for food...

 

[jclisenby]

My philosophy is simple: God, Guns, Sweet Tea, Roll Tide...America, F Yeah!

 

[Just_Me_D]

I have no issue with NASCAR making that decision, I just think its the wrong one from a monetary stance.

From a believers standpoint, the money is secondary and will be taken care of. ...(snipped)...

Same with Chik-Fil-A. They can have their beliefs and I can find another place to eat.

As I've stated o numerous occasion, that is the beauty of having choices. Still, Chick-fil-A's Christian stance is legendary and has served them well for a very long time. Even when their beliefs came under attack last year and they were threatened via an attempt to hurt them monetarily, they survived basically unscathed and their beliefs are still intact. Some people find it difficult to understand why that is or why the threat of monetary penalties have no effect, but believers clearly understand...(snipped)...

I don't have a problem with public displays of religion, per se. If a church wants to hold a service on a public park, I have no issue with that as long as other organizations are given an equal chance (including a equal shot at a specific time and date, that is if for instance an atheist group and a church want to hold something at 9am on Sunday in a public spot, then it should be decided by a coin flip rather than deferring to the church because it's Sunday).

I have no problem with this....(snipped)...

I have no problem being respectful of others practicing their religion, as long as they are respectful of my right not to. And in my experience, that respect of my lack of belief is hard to find.

It has been the opposite in mine...(snipped)...

Anyway, just my thoughts and as stated above, I'm glad we're keeping this civil.

Me, too. Good post, by the way...

 

[anon(4698833)]

Karenkcoulter...i totally respect your stance, and i can understand the frustration of judgmental eyes on you, it's really not fair to you...but on the flip side of that coin, imagine the looks people get FOR doing it, when they are praying and people are looking at them like they are doing something wrong. It goes both ways really.

And it would seem the biggest problem you have is the pressure to acclimate with the masses when you are trying to enjoy something where these religious acts happen before, within or after. Pressure all comes from you, and I'm not trying to say it's your fault for feeling it...not at all, you're only human and we all handle life differently...but when it comes to pressure, the only person that can do anything about that is you, since it is you that it is affecting. If i go to a festival where an atheist gathering is, and i feel pressure from them to justify my stance, the only person that can do anything about that is me...i can either disregard it and continue with my plans or i can take it on, and the outcome of that falls on me, not them...they are there anyways, i choose whether i want to step into that arena or not.

As far as ceremonies and equal opportunities...I'm 100% with you on that, but I'd also like to see some maturity amongst those people who are trying to have the ceremony, if you have a group of atheist that go to a park where a Christian group is trying to hold an easter sunday festival, and they get mad because the church is given preference in that and given the park, i would expect them to understand why, to see that this is something to be expected, and honestly, unless it was just some random sunday, i think it's fair to say that the scenario probably would never happen.

Travel situations are also something i agree with you on, but this is the thing...we went to Italy, and we were enjoying a nice meal and the sites, and in the middle of that, a catholic parade came down the street (i have no idea what it was about), we watched and just continued on with what we were doing. Another time we were in Tahiti, there was some celebration for Sanito, i have no idea what that is but i remember specifically because we were taking pictures and we just saw a bunch of masked people, dancing around and asked and a guy tried to explain it to us but we didn't speak hardly any french so we didn't really understand...regardless, we just kind of watched and went on with our business.

 

[Alli]

Hey! Don't take Sports out of the equation. <sniff>

I'll steer the topic back around. Last night, after the Ravens righteously whomped the Patriots, a Twitter friend went on a tirade about Ray Lewis, and how profane it was for him to pray and that you can't be forgiven for all your sins just by becoming "born again." (Referring back to the 2000 murder indictment.) While Lewis was never convicted, how often do we see people (particularly athletes) commit crimes and repent because they've found God? And does God really forgive them?

 

[Just_Me_D]

Hey! Don't take Sports out of the equation.

I'll steer the topic back around. Last night, after the Ravens righteously whomped the Patriots, a Twitter friend went on a tirade about Ray Lewis, and how profane it was for him to pray

Why? The guy was filled with joy and is thankful to be in the position he & his teammates are in. Wasn't it a teammate who stated that the Ravens team are a praying team?

and that you can't be forgiven for all your sins just by becoming "born again." (Referring back to the 2000 murder indictment.)

Wrong. "People" tend to not forgive, not GOD. One of my best friends find it difficult to forgive Ray for that 2000 murder indictment and no matter how much Ray has clearly changed and all the good that he has done from that time forward, that one incident remains locked in my friend's mind. That is him not forgiving Ray and his lack of forgiveness is based on his perceptions and not that of GOD's.

so While Lewis was never convicted, how often do we see people (particularly athletes) commit crimes and repent because they've found God? And does God really forgive them?

We've seen this quite a bit and some are truly repentant and some are not. As for your final question, If those athletes were truly sorry and repentant, then yes, HE forgave them. People find it difficult to understand the importance of forgiving. Forgiveness is essential to healing and we tend to think that if I haven't forgiven him then that means GOD hasn't and HE is greater than I am. Yet, it is because HE is greater that HE can forgive when we cannot.

 

[Fausty82]

Hey! Don't take Sports out of the equation. <sniff>

I'll steer the topic back around. Last night, after the Ravens righteously whomped the Patriots, a Twitter friend went on a tirade about Ray Lewis, and how profane it was for him to pray and that you can't be forgiven for all your sins just by becoming "born again." (Referring back to the 2000 murder indictment.) While Lewis was never convicted, how often do we see people (particularly athletes) commit crimes and repent because they've found God? And does God really forgive them?

I don?t see it as profane at all to pray - for certainly we?ve all sinned in one regard or another. To truly becoming "born again", and receive true forgiveness, requires a genuine, heartfelt repentance for your past actions, as well as accepting the sacrificial and redemptive work of Christ dying in our place. It is then, and only then that God forgives. And only God and the individual (in this example, Ray Lewis) know the real truth... though, if the experience is genuine, the ways of the individual (again, in this example, Ray Lewis) will demonstrate real change.

We do, however, see a great number of public displays for the sake of making a public display. The same is true of "jailhouse salvation"... many in jail/prison finds God... until they get out and it no longer serves their purpose. And it makes a mockery of those who truly are changed by a personal experience with God. Unfortunately, it?s somewhat "in vogue" for professional athletes to profess being a Christian these days - with little regard to the actual personal experience.

 

[anon(4698833)]

I'm going to respectfully bow out of this discussion, simply because there are two sides to this debate that will probably never come to a median point. As a religious person, i feel a certain amount is lacking to people's choice to express it in public, and i can understand the feeling someone has who is not religious but is surrounded by it, it must be quite uncomfortable...hopefully these two sides can find peace more often than not.

 

[Just_Me_D]

I'm going to respectfully bow out of this discussion, simply because there are two sides to this debate that will probably never come to a median point. As a religious person, i feel a certain amount is lacking to people's choice to express it in public, and i can understand the feeling someone has who is not religious but is surrounded by it, it must be quite uncomfortable...hopefully these two sides can find peace more often than not.

Well stated, and like you, I'm also done with the discussion. Thankfully, it remained civil despite the participants' difference of opinion. Enjoy the rest of your day...

 

[rdiddy_25]

So I guess this would bother some of you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZnDt2wEFjk&feature=youtube_gdata_player


Best Pre-Race prayer ever!!

 

[Hail Caesar]

I don't think GOD cares about sports.

 

[Alli]

Of course She does. She's a huge FIFA fan.