1. kch50428's Avatar
    It's not an admission of guilt by itself..but again, How in hell he can prove himself innocent if he gives up the chance to do so...
    It's not about him proving himself innocent. They heve to prove him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. That's how the justice system works. Rather, is supposed to. The American Justice System is reduced to an oxymoron if the masses swallow your attitude of "guilty until proven innocent".
    08-24-2012 04:13 PM
  2. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Big red flags:
    1) He's not gonna fight the charges, he has overcome many things in life before but he's giving up everything now.
    Let me start out by saying that, other than the one article I read when I woke up this morning, I have not read any other article nor have I watched any TV or listened to any radio or podcast audio in regard to Lance. Now, back to your replies. How much are you willing to give up to have peace of mind? How much are you willing to give to protect your family from unnecessary scrutiny, embarrassment, stress, harassment and possible bullying? Do you have enough money to endlessly pay attorneys to defend against what appears to be years of witch hunts? The point I'm trying to make is the fact that EVERYONE has a breaking point and Lance *may have* reached his.
    2) I saw a couple of testimonies from his American teammates ( a few of them lost olympic medals and wee barred from competing ) and I think 12 people telling the same story is a pretty solid evidence. ( yes, I know 12 people could conspire to screw him up but really? )
    They could very well be telling the truth, however, can they provide verifiable proof? In regard to the ones who have already lost their medals, was there verifiable evidence against them that caused them to lose them?
    3 ) the USDA did in fact find evidence of doping and steroid, it's been in the news.
    I'm assuming you mean USADA. Anyway, if I remember reading correctly, a cycling union (I believe) is requesting the USADA to explain to them why Lance has to forfeit his titles. If there was verifiable proof, I can't see the union asking for such an explanation. Again, I have no idea what evidence the USADA may or may not have. All I want them to do is produce it for all to see.
    4) Tests showed he did some blood transfusions to manipulate the results in 2009
    Now wait! Although I may be medically ignorant, I'm still an educated man . I will accept that tests can show evidence of a blood transfusion, but I am not willing to accept at the moment that those tests can show that the transfusions were used to manipulate results. That is speculation, in my opinion. Again, I'm medically ignorant so you may be right.
    Last edited by JustMe'D; 08-24-2012 at 04:41 PM.
    08-24-2012 04:16 PM
  3. Guacho's Avatar
    Let me start out by saying that, other than the one article I read when I woke up this morning, I have not read any other article nor have I watched any TV or listened to any radio or podcast audio in regard to Lance. Now, back to your replies. How much are you willing to give up to have peace of mind? How much are you willing to give to protect your family from unnecessary scrutiny, embarrassment, stress, harassment and possible bullying? Do you have enough money to endlessly pay attorneys to defend against what appears to be years of witch hunts? The point I'm trying to make is the fact that EVERYONE has a breaking point and Lance *may have* reached his.
    They could very well be telling the truth, however, can they provide verifiable proof? In regard to the ones who have already lost their medals, were there verifiable evidence against them that caused them to lose them?
    I'm assuming you mean USADA. Anyway, if I remember reading correctly, a cycling union (I believe) is requesting the USADA to explain to them why Lance has to forfeit his titles. If there was verifiable proof, I can't see the union asking for such an explanation. Again, I have no idea what evidence the USADA may or may not have. All I want them to do is produce it for all to see.
    Now wait! Although I may be medically ignorant, I'm still an educated man . I will accept that tests can show evidence of a blood transfusion, but I am not willing to accept at the moment that those tests can show that the transfusions were used to manipulate results. That is speculation, in my opinion. Again, I'm medically ignorant so you may be right.
    Yes, I meant USADA, sorry.
    That's all I want too about the evidence and according to them there's is plenty but we'll see.
    I just fail to see the witch hunt and the " french did it" I mean, if they really wanted to get him out of the picture now it's the worst timing, they could've done it years ago to stop him but they didn't have enough evidence, apparently they do now. I just believe the evidence we know today is very damaging and it is a lot stronger than people's claims of " oh this is a witch hunt" and the " french did it".
    There was verifiable evidence against one of his teammates ( dont remember his name ), his 1984 olympic gold meal was just forfeited, the tests showed dope.
    Last edited by Guacho; 08-24-2012 at 04:57 PM.
    08-24-2012 04:51 PM
  4. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Yes, I meant USADA, sorry.
    That's all I want too about the evidence and according to them there's is plenty but we'll see.
    I just fail to see the witch hunt and the " french did it" I mean, if they really wanted to get him out of the picture now it's the worst timing, they could've done it years ago to stop him but they didn't have enough evidence, apparently they do now.
    Your statement can be an argument for calling the USADA's pursuit of Armstrong a witch hunt.
    I just believe the evidence we know today is very damaging and it is a lot stronger than people's claims of " oh this is a witch hunt" and the " french did it".
    What evidence?
    There was verifiable evidence against one of his teammates ( dont remember his name ), his 1984 olympic gold meal was just forfeited, the tests showed dope.
    1984? That was 28 years ago. A statue of limitations is in order, in my opinion. Anyway, thank you for the comments, my friend. I appreciate it.
    08-24-2012 05:19 PM
  5. Guacho's Avatar
    Your statement can be an argument for calling the USADA's pursuit of Armstrong a witch hunt. What evidence?
    1984? That was 28 years ago. A statue of limitations is in order, in my opinion. Anyway, thank you for the comments, my friend. I appreciate it.
    What evidence? If you dont consider the testimony of 12 people damaging... again, this are former teammates and " friends".. But hey, they all "MAY" be lying..
    The cyclist's name is Tyler Hamilton, he tested positive for dope in 1984 but was allowed to keep the medal because the lab destroyed a sample and they couldn't perform a second test, a fee weeks ago he finally admitted taking drugs, statute of limitations I believe dont apply in this case, he was one of the guys who incriminated Armstrong..

    No, thank you for bringing up your points..
    08-24-2012 06:04 PM
  6. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    What evidence? If you dont consider the testimony of 12 people damaging... again, this are former teammates and " friends".. But hey, they all "MAY" be lying..damaging...
    Yes sir, I think the similar testimony of 12 people is damaging, but testimony, in regard to this, is not proof enough to warrant him being stripped of his titles or warrant an immediate conviction. Show me a video of him using, sales receipts, a ledger of some sort displaying specifics, corroborating testimony of the supplier(s) via a polygraph or even Lance's own admission.
    The cyclist's name is Tyler Hamilton, he tested positive for dope in 1984 but was allowed to keep the medal because the lab destroyed a sample and they couldn't perform a second test, a fee weeks ago he finally admitted taking drugs, statute of limitations I believe dont apply in this case, he was one of the guys who incriminated Armstrong..
    Had he not admitted to taking drugs, how much evidence did authorities have against him? I'm asking not to prove a point but because I want to know.

    No, thank you for bringing up your points..
    You're very welcome. I enjoy conversations like this and I love playing devil's advocate.
    08-24-2012 06:22 PM
  7. Guacho's Avatar
    Yes sir, I think the similar testimony of 12 people is damaging, but testimony, in regard to this, is not proof enough to warrant him being stripped of his titles or warrant an immediate conviction. Show me a video of him using, sales receipts, a ledger of some sort displaying specifics, corroborating testimony of the supplier(s) via a polygraph or even Lance's own admission.
    Had he not admitted to taking drugs, how much evidence did authorities have against him? I'm asking not to prove a point but because I want to know.

    You're very welcome. I enjoy conversations like this and I love playing devil's advocate.
    Correction: Tyler Hamilton's medal is from 2004, he also tested positive in " vuelta a Espaa".
    08-24-2012 06:46 PM
  8. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    By some of the logic in here, i could go to court and say that all of the rest of you murdered at least one person, and in that, if you don't represent yourself 110% for the next 10 years straight against said accusation, you're going to be charged with murder.

    This little gem here is where the GALACTIC size problem with this case is...

    Reasonable doubt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    kch50428 likes this.
    08-24-2012 07:22 PM
  9. kch50428's Avatar
    08-24-2012 08:20 PM
  10. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    'nuf said........Allegations, an arguable witch hunt, guilty for quitting and no proof. Did I not mentions these things in my replies?
    kch50428 likes this.
    08-24-2012 09:41 PM
  11. iPhoneTHS's Avatar
    They, naysayers and jealous hearts, weren't going to quit until his name was mud.
    08-24-2012 09:48 PM
  12. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    They, naysayers and jealous hearts, weren't going to quit until his name was mud.
    It sure appears that way, doesn't it?
    08-24-2012 09:52 PM
  13. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    You know where else this kind of "justice" is popular?

    08-24-2012 11:04 PM
  14. Guacho's Avatar
    'nuf said........Allegations, an arguable witch hunt, guilty for quitting and no proof. Did I not mentions these things in my replies?
    some points from the article :

    "There has been no trial, no due process" - he's right, not all these years, but now he refused to go to arbitration which will give Armstrong the chance to face the accusations and clear his name, three arbitration panels reviewed Armstrong's case before they reached a decision, this wasn't just Travis Tygart's witch hunt like the article suggests.

    "People lie. Blood and urine usually dont" - This is a pretty bold statement, the article is based 100% on the tests when it's been proven these can be manipulated .EPO, the substance Armstrong is accused of using has a fairly easy way to cheat the tests, using blood transfusion system to cheat the urine and blood tests.

    " Lets assume these people really are witnesses, lets assume theyre telling the truth, and then lets assume that their testimony is the new standard, outweighing all drug test results.
    Then what in the world is the point of drug testing? "


    Really?? so if we assumed the testimony of all this people is true and they saw him cheating, we should still stand by the test results and honor them...really!!!

    "I dont know if Armstrong did the things hes accused of doing, and neither do you. I dont know if these witnesses are telling the truth, and neither do you. I do know two things: First, he passed all his tests."


    Again, he's all for the tests....the witnesses and the tests are evidence, all these 12 people could be lying ?? of course, but he never raises questions about the tests and to the fact positive dope tests can be avoided, it has happened many times before.
    08-25-2012 08:07 AM
  15. Guacho's Avatar
    By some of the logic in here, i could go to court and say that all of the rest of you murdered at least one person, and in that, if you don't represent yourself 110% for the next 10 years straight against said accusation, you're going to be charged with murder.

    This little gem here is where the GALACTIC size problem with this case is...

    Reasonable doubt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Not sure if your example applies.
    ok, so if I killed someone 10 years ago and let's say I didn't represent 110% all this time, am I gonna be charged of murder?....there's no body, no weapon but if 2 people saw me buying a gun, another 5 being at the crime scene and another 3 pulling the trigger and getting rid of the body??..what do you think?
    Another GALACTIC size gem here is circumstantial evidence, which in many cases has proved guilt beyond reasonable doubt.
    08-25-2012 08:22 AM
  16. Guacho's Avatar
    Yes sir, I think the similar testimony of 12 people is damaging, but testimony, in regard to this, is not proof enough to warrant him being stripped of his titles or warrant an immediate conviction. Show me a video of him using, sales receipts, a ledger of some sort displaying specifics, corroborating testimony of the supplier(s) via a polygraph or even Lance's own admission.
    Had he not admitted to taking drugs, how much evidence did authorities have against him? I'm asking not to prove a point but because I want to know.

    You're very welcome. I enjoy conversations like this and I love playing devil's advocate.
    here is the video, he was allowed to keep the 2004 gold medal because the lab accidentally destroyed the blood sample, he tested positive the first test but a second test couldn't be perfpormed. The medal was forfeited a few weeks ago when he admitted taking drugs for the olympics.

    Who is Tyler Hamilton? - 60 Minutes Overtime - CBS News

    devil's advocate?? You play a very good one I might add... =)
    08-25-2012 08:32 AM
  17. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    No one is saying that Lance is completely innocent. I know I'm not, but prove that he is guilty. Yes, tests can be manipulated, but make no mistake about it, so can people, i.e., witnesses. we live in a society where evidence outweighs testimony even when the accused admits to wrongdoing. Example? The accused admitting guilt to protect a loved one who actually committed the crime. You appear to be putting a lot of faith in the testimony of the former team mates and that's okay. As for the arbitration, why sit in front of an arbiter and assume he or she will rule in your favor when there is no proof of any wrongdoing other than the testimony of alleged witnesses? I'd say the odds would not be in his favor so why play along? He has been dealing with this for "years"! At some point, we all say, "Enough! That's it! I'm done! To continue is not worth it!" Yes, an argument can be made that his timing is a bit suspicious, but it still doesn't prove that he didn't reach his breaking point.
    Last edited by JustMe'D; 08-25-2012 at 08:58 PM.
    grunt0300 likes this.
    08-25-2012 10:56 AM
  18. 3cit's Avatar
    Every teammate of his doped. Every doctor of his has been banned for doping others. Cycling is such a dirty sport that almost all the top tier athletes have doped...
    So in a sport where everyone dopes, where everyone on his team dopes, where every staff member associated with his team have been banned or punished for doping others, he was far and away the best in the world, and he was clean??
    Oh yeah and he was recovering from cancer... But he was better than all the cheaters.... BULLSHAVICK

    He is a cheater.

    He got caught. I don't care either way, he has done a lot of good with his fame and fortune. And livestrong is a noble and good thing.
    But he is a cheater
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    08-25-2012 04:11 PM
  19. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Every teammate of his doped. Every doctor of his has been banned for doping others. Cycling is such a dirty sport that almost all the top tier athletes have doped...
    So in a sport where everyone dopes, where everyone on his team dopes, where every staff member associated with his team have been banned or punished for doping others, he was far and away the best in the world, and he was clean??
    Oh yeah and he was recovering from cancer... But he was better than all the cheaters.... BULLSHAVICK

    He is a cheater.

    He got caught. I don't care either way, he has done a lot of good with his fame and fortune. And livestrong is a noble and good thing.
    But he is a cheater
    My stance has been and is still the same. I am not trying to prove him innocent, but I am seeking "proof" that he is guilty and not the "birds of a feather flock together" or "if it quacks like a duck..." kind of proof either. When the outcome of an investigation will alter history/record books, fans of the accused as well as of the sport deserve 100% solid proof.
    Last edited by JustMe'D; 08-25-2012 at 05:22 PM.
    kch50428 likes this.
    08-25-2012 05:19 PM
  20. BLiNK's Avatar
    has there been any confirmation from Lance himself that he is indeed guilty?

    you gotta think since Nike dropped him there has to be something pretty incriminating
    10-27-2012 10:26 AM
  21. rdiddy_25's Avatar
    has there been any confirmation from Lance himself that he is indeed guilty?

    you gotta think since Nike dropped him there has to be something pretty incriminating
    All of his sponsors have officially dropped him.
    10-27-2012 12:14 PM
  22. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    has there been any confirmation from Lance himself that he is indeed guilty?

    you gotta think since Nike dropped him there has to be something pretty incriminating
    Not that I'm aware of. As for Nike dropping him, I'm not surprised. Companies will do whatever is necessary to protect their brand, especially if the consensus (with proof or not) is against Lance.
    10-27-2012 01:44 PM
  23. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I suspect that the reason he got cancer was due to all the drugs he took.
    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
    10-27-2012 02:05 PM
  24. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    There are no links between the steroids he was "charged" of using and cancer besides anadrol (which he was not taking)...truthfully, the only link one could make between them is the increase in carcinogens by using steroids, but then that could be attributed to breathing air in a polluted city, eating a hamburger or giving a kid a hug, so it's a bit of a stretch.

    The guy honestly just wants away from this deal...guilty or innocent, he gets to go live life now, and that's more important than proving a brick wall they are wrong.
    10-27-2012 02:49 PM
  25. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    There are no links between the steroids he was "charged" of using and cancer besides anadrol (which he was not taking)...truthfully, the only link one could make between them is the increase in carcinogens by using steroids, but then that could be attributed to breathing air in a polluted city, eating a hamburger or giving a kid a hug, so it's a bit of a stretch.

    The guy honestly just wants away from this deal...guilty or innocent, he gets to go live life now, and that's more important than proving a brick wall they are wrong.
    Intratesticular leiomyosarcoma in a young man after h... [Cancer. 1999] - PubMed - NCBI

    I'm not familiar with the exact drugs he was charged with taking. I also don't know exactly which drugs Lyle Alzado took that gave him fatal brain cancer.
    10-27-2012 04:15 PM
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