1. anony_mouse's Avatar
    ‘Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?’
    Words of wisdom to anyone trying to follow along with you. I’m out.
    Thanks for letting us know. :-)
    MasterDarque likes this.
    03-24-2018 07:17 AM
  2. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    And if you think this site is like a men's urinal, why do you spend so much time hanging around here?
    I drink lots of water.
    03-24-2018 10:13 AM
  3. ItnStln's Avatar
    You're out of line. Just_Me_D is an Ambassador Team Leader and a Senior Moderator. He works here (and does not get paid to do so). You'll never comprehend how much he contributes to this website and to it's growing community. Most of the people here that you keep asking "how are you contributing" freely volunteer their time here to help others and keep engaging conversation going.

    Maybe once you grasp that some of us here can contribute to this site in other ways than bringing in money, perhaps you'll drop this nonsense. A dead horse is a dead horse.
    Oftentimes volunteering time is harder than money. I'm starting to think @anony_mouse works for the companies which run the advertisements here since he takes such offense to people using ad blockers.
    MasterDarque, Lee_Bo and Sherry_B like this.
    03-24-2018 11:46 AM
  4. ItnStln's Avatar
    I am flattered to get so many responses and I don't have time to respond to them all individually, but I still don't think you understand my point. I will repeat it again in very simple terms.

    You are not obligated, by law, or this website's terms and conditions, or anything else that I am aware of, to download or view adverts on this site. However, if everybody blocked the adverts on this site, its income would disappear, or at least be reduced, and it would quite possibly cease to exist. I think that's an easy point to understand, but if you still don't get please reply and I'll try to write it in even simpler terms.

    You may or may not care about the possible disappearance of this site, but given the amount of time you are devoting just to this thread, I surmise that its closure would lead to something of a gap in your lives. It would lead to a gap in mine, so I would like you to co-operate with the methods used to pay for the site's upkeep.
    If MoNa is losing income because people are blocking advertisements perhaps they should reevaluate their business model to include a paid subscription service. It will allow people who don't want to be bothered with advertisements to contribute.
    Lee_Bo likes this.
    03-24-2018 11:51 AM
  5. ItnStln's Avatar
    I'm not sure what jurisdiction this law of yours applies to, but in most countries it is illegal to make a copy of copyrighted content without the permission of the copyright holder. The copyright holder is the only one who has the right to make, or grant permission to make, copies (except sometimes for specific uses). The clue is in the name - think about what the word "copyright" literally means. You do not have to sell the content in order to break the law.

    Bittorrent makes a copy of the downloaded content on your computer, so its use is covered by copyright law. This doesn't make Bittorrent illegal in itself. It can be legally used for acquiring content not covered by copyright, or where the copyright holder(s) has/have given permission (e.g. Linux distributions). But to come back to the Netflix example, it is illegal in most countries to download Netflix content via Bittorrent as Netflix do not give permission to do so.

    There is no exemption to copyright laws for people who don't like the conditions copyright holders impose for the use of their work - there is no obligation for the "provider of the content [...] to provide services to people with differet (sic) plans so they still get profit", as you put it. This is basic property law - I am also not allowed to steal stuff from your shop if I think you are charging too much for it.
    Case Law has dictated that downloading torrents for personal use is no different than copying a movie or CD a friend let you borrow.
    03-24-2018 11:53 AM
  6. ItnStln's Avatar
    ‘Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?’
    Words of wisdom to anyone trying to follow along with you. I’m out.
    It's somewhat entertaining actually. I think @anony_mouse has a role in MoNa or one of the advertising companies MoNa uses. I've asked many times but he won't answer the question.
    MasterDarque and Lee_Bo like this.
    03-24-2018 11:54 AM
  7. Lee_Bo's Avatar
    Someone has to pay for the upkeep of this site.
    If you are blocking the adverts, you are accessing the site without contributing to its upkeep.
    The question is not whether you prevented from blocking the ads on this site. Clearly you are not. The question is whether it is *right* and *sustainable* to block the ads on this site. And how you should compensate people like me who do not block the ads and are therefore paying for your use of the site.

    If you are blocking the ads, how are you contributing your share of the costs of running the site?
    I do the exact same thing on my phone, tablet and MBP for Facebook to get an ad-free Facebook experience AND so they can't mine my data.

    Does that also bother you?
    Sherry_B likes this.
    03-24-2018 12:25 PM
  8. Lee_Bo's Avatar
    You're out of line. Just_Me_D is an Ambassador Team Leader and a Senior Moderator. He works here (and does not get paid to do so). You'll never comprehend how much he contributes to this website and to it's growing community. Most of the people here that you keep asking "how are you contributing" freely volunteer their time here to help others and keep engaging conversation going.

    Maybe once you grasp that some of us here can contribute to this site in other ways than bringing in money, perhaps you'll drop this nonsense. A dead horse is a dead horse.
    There are many, again MANY of us that "work" here on a volunteer basis.
    Sherry_B likes this.
    03-24-2018 12:30 PM
  9. Lee_Bo's Avatar
    I also contribute to this site by providing free content. Judging by the responses, I would say my posts have been pretty effective at driving traffic to this thread.
    And helping me keep up my post count. 🤣
    03-24-2018 12:35 PM
  10. Lee_Bo's Avatar
    Hi, my name is Lee_Bo, and I use ad blockers. If a website has an issue with that, then give me an option to pay for ad-free browsing.

    I'm also pretty sure MoNa (and other sites) can tell if I'm using blockers. If they have issues with it, then block my user account. Until the powers that be make blockers illegal then I'll continue to use them.
    03-24-2018 12:46 PM
  11. Almeuit's Avatar
    It's somewhat entertaining actually. I think @anony_mouse has a role in MoNa or one of the advertising companies MoNa uses. I've asked many times but he won't answer the question.
    He's just stating his opinion and has no secret intent with MoNa. I volunteer here as well and the site owners know I use ad block at times to make what I do easier.

    So please drop the accusations. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they are some super secret spy agent trying to pretend to be something else.

    As for others I know the paid subscription thing has been brought up and IIRC they are considering it. Nothing official yet but I do know it's been talked about it and they are aware. They also know people are blocking the ads. Sites can easily tell these things. Obviously they aren't that upset hence them not out right banning people.. but to be honest most sites wouldn't do that anyway.
    Laura Knotek and pkcable like this.
    03-24-2018 03:41 PM
  12. Sherry_B's Avatar
    I also contribute to this site by providing free content.
    Looking at your previous posts on this site I fail to see any viable contributions.

    Judging by the responses, I would say my posts have been pretty effective at driving traffic to this thread.
    I think you are confusing yourself with the thread creator. The thread title brought people here. Unless people are talking about you in a private back room somewhere, no one knew you were posting in here until after they began reading/commenting here. Unless you are the original thread creator.....

    I am not asking for special treatment
    Asking to be compensated is special treatment.

    Looking at most of the respondents on this thread, I don't see "admin" or similar next to their posts
    You do not need a special title to volunteer and help others here at iMore. That's not what iMore is about, and certainly not what the spirit of helping others here is all about. I know who the volunteers are regardless of whether or not they have a "title". If you spent any time here volunteering to help others then there would be no question that you'd know who they are... title or no title.

    It costs money to run this site - servers, bandwidth, power, staff, etc. That has to be paid for somehow, by someone. If not you, who do you think should pay for it?
    Who made you responsible for the financial care and well being of iMore? Are you assuming this position all on your own, or did someone ask you to step in? Or, are you a shill for the ad companies? I think you're being compensated already.
    Just_Me_D, Lee_Bo and MasterDarque like this.
    03-24-2018 04:28 PM
  13. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    I am flattered to get so many responses and I don't have time to respond to them all individually, but I still don't think you understand my point. I will repeat it again in very simple terms.
    It is not us who doesn't understand. It's you. I've clearly explained matters in the simplest of terms, but you've chosen to not accept it.

    You are not obligated, by law, or this website's terms and conditions, or anything else that I am aware of, to download or view adverts on this site.
    That's correct.
    However, if everybody blocked the adverts on this site, its income would disappear, or at least be reduced, and it would quite possibly cease to exist. I think that's an easy point to understand, but if you still don't get please reply and I'll try to write it in even simpler terms.
    iMore generates revenue by "displaying ads on its site". Visiting the forum via a 3rd -party app like Tapatalk allow users to access the forum's content without the associated ads. With that being said, iMore is still generating revenue because the ads are continuing to be displayed on its website. Do you understand that?

    You may or may not care about the possible disappearance of this site, but given the amount of time you are devoting just to this thread, I surmise that its closure would lead to something of a gap in your lives. It would lead to a gap in mine, so I would like you to co-operate with the methods used to pay for the site's upkeep.
    That reply lets me know that you now see that your argument is flawed. If iMore were to shutdown, we would all adjust and find a site that's similar, and you know it.
    03-24-2018 05:11 PM
  14. Golfdriver97's Avatar
    After viewing this thread for a while....I think I am going to weigh in.

    I'll admit, I'm not much of an Apple fan, but to be fair, Apple doesn't have newsworthy things that happen all year. They have, 2 major keynotes, as I recall. It's hard for iMore to fill in the remaining weeks with what's left. By default, they HAVE to cover other things. We can somwhat compare them to the other MoNa sites. AC sometimes has these kind of articles, and there are way more devices being thrown about. WC can have the benefit of reporting on hardware and games. I'm sure there is still days where I'll fitting content is published.

    Overall, would it be nice if all the blog talked about was Apple? Sure. Is that realistic or pragmatic? Not really.
    03-24-2018 05:29 PM
  15. djrakowski's Avatar
    I thought everyone was aware of the revenue challenges faced by websites like iMore. A lot of work goes into content creation, maintenance and associated activities, and since few people are willing to pay for this content directly, the site has to sell space to advertisers.

    Too, as Golfdriver97 mentioned, there’s just not that much Apple news to report on a regular basis. There are one, maybe two big events throughout the year, and their big product release cycle occurs in the fall. Perhaps this additional content - Pokémon, Nintendo Switch, etc. - doesn’t appeal to me, but I understand the reasons they feature such content. I simply skip the articles that don’t interest me and read the content that does.
    Laura Knotek and Annie_8plus like this.
    03-24-2018 05:58 PM
  16. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    The next WWDC will be held from 4-8 June, so I'm sure that iMore will feature a lot of new Apple-related articles at that time, so stay tuned. ☺️
    djrakowski, Sherry_B and Lee_Bo like this.
    03-24-2018 06:51 PM
  17. ItnStln's Avatar
    Hi, my name is Lee_Bo, and I use ad blockers. If a website has an issue with that, then give me an option to pay for ad-free browsing.

    I'm also pretty sure MoNa (and other sites) can tell if I'm using blockers. If they have issues with it, then block my user account. Until the powers that be make blockers illegal then I'll continue to use them.
    Same here!
    Lee_Bo likes this.
    03-24-2018 07:57 PM
  18. ItnStln's Avatar
    He's just stating his opinion and has no secret intent with MoNa. I volunteer here as well and the site owners know I use ad block at times to make what I do easier.

    So please drop the accusations. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they are some super secret spy agent trying to pretend to be something else.

    As for others I know the paid subscription thing has been brought up and IIRC they are considering it. Nothing official yet but I do know it's been talked about it and they are aware. They also know people are blocking the ads. Sites can easily tell these things. Obviously they aren't that upset hence them not out right banning people.. but to be honest most sites wouldn't do that anyway.
    What I said was "I think @anony_mouse has a role in MoNa or one of the advertising companies MoNa uses" which isn't an accusation. The keyword in the sentence was think. Now if I said he has a role in MoNa or one of the advertising companies MoNa uses, that would be an accusation. However, that isn't what I said.
    If MoNa's fee covers all of their sites and is comparable to theCHIVE's $4.99 fee then I'll be more than happy to contribute. Another forum I visit charges $20 for a year of ad free browsing on their sites.
    03-24-2018 08:08 PM
  19. ItnStln's Avatar
    You do not need a special title to volunteer and help others here at iMore. That's not what iMore is about, and certainly not what the spirit of helping others here is all about. I know who the volunteers are regardless of whether or not they have a "title". If you spent any time here volunteering to help others then there would be no question that you'd know who they are... title or no title.
    I'm going to charge my signature to say volunteer now!
    MasterDarque likes this.
    03-24-2018 08:10 PM
  20. anony_mouse's Avatar
    Case Law has dictated that downloading torrents for personal use is no different than copying a movie or CD a friend let you borrow.
    Reference please - I am not aware of any developed country where this is the current state of affairs. Also please think about how likely your statement is to be true.

    Also understand that a judgement made in one court in one country will not apply in other countries.

    Please think very carefully before posting your unsubstantiated personal legal theories online. Someone may read them, act upon them, and get into trouble.

    Edit: I realise I misread your post. I think you are implying that it's legal to borrow a CD from your friend and make a copy for your own use. This is not generally legal, so even if your claim is literally true, it does not mean it is OK to download copyright material via bittorrent.
    Last edited by anony_mouse; 04-26-2018 at 10:46 AM. Reason: grammar
    04-26-2018 04:19 AM
  21. anony_mouse's Avatar
    I skipped this thread as many of the posters seemed to deliberately miss the obvious point that someone has to pay for the content on this site. If you are blocking the advertisements on an ad-supported site like this one, you are taking without contributing (you might argue that moderators etc are a special case, but it's hard to believe that everyone here is a moderator).

    Anyway I came back to this thread to tell you that when I use this site, I now see messages asking me to disable my ad blocker. Apparently ad-blockers make the site's owners sad (and persumably hungry). This is somewhat ironic as I don't use an ad-blocker, but seems like a useful step in making people think about what they do.
    04-26-2018 04:28 AM
  22. Rob Phillips's Avatar
    After viewing this thread for a while....I think I am going to weigh in.

    I'll admit, I'm not much of an Apple fan, but to be fair, Apple doesn't have newsworthy things that happen all year. They have, 2 major keynotes, as I recall. It's hard for iMore to fill in the remaining weeks with what's left. By default, they HAVE to cover other things. We can somwhat compare them to the other MoNa sites. AC sometimes has these kind of articles, and there are way more devices being thrown about. WC can have the benefit of reporting on hardware and games. I'm sure there is still days where I'll fitting content is published.

    Overall, would it be nice if all the blog talked about was Apple? Sure. Is that realistic or pragmatic? Not really.
    I kind of agree with you but iMore (and before that, TiPb) existed for a very long time as an Apple-only site. Today there are still numerous other blogs and podcasts whose content is 100% Apple and they don’t seem to be having any trouble finding things to talk about. What happened with iMore is the editorial staff decided to do a few quick Pokémon Go write ups and guides when the game was first released and site traffic (read “ad revenue”) shot through the roof. Since then iMore has basically turned into a dumping ground for anything that doesn’t fit on the other sites. They also appear to not really care what the content is as long as they can make a buck off of it. Here are a few headlines from the past week or so:

    Harry Potter: Hogwarts Mystery: Beginner’s Guide
    Improve your mobile browsing experience with 1Blocker X for iOS (I can’t even begin to explain the irony here)
    Kryptonite bike locks are on sale, with prices starting at $19
    Today only, these Black + Decker compact hand vacuums are down to just $20

    Yes, there are plenty of Apple-related headlines as well but I’d say they only account for maybe half of the total. Of that half, a good percentage are how-to articles and beginner’s guides like the Harry Potter one mentioned above.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    04-26-2018 05:46 AM
  23. Golfdriver97's Avatar
    I kind of agree with you but iMore (and before that, TiPb) existed for a very long time as an Apple-only site. Today there are still numerous other blogs and podcasts whose content is 100% Apple and they don’t seem to be having any trouble finding things to talk about. What happened with iMore is the editorial staff decided to do a few quick Pokémon Go write ups and guides when the game was first released and site traffic (read “ad revenue”) shot through the roof. Since then iMore has basically turned into a dumping ground for anything that doesn’t fit on the other sites. They also appear to not really care what the content is as long as they can make a buck off of it. Here are a few headlines from the past week or so:

    Harry Potter: Hogwarts Mystery: Beginner’s Guide
    Improve your mobile browsing experience with 1Blocker X for iOS (I can’t even begin to explain the irony here)
    Kryptonite bike locks are on sale, with prices starting at $19
    Today only, these Black + Decker compact hand vacuums are down to just $20

    Yes, there are plenty of Apple-related headlines as well but I’d say they only account for maybe half of the total. Of that half, a good percentage are how-to articles and beginner’s guides like the Harry Potter one mentioned above.
    I can easily agree that there are articles that shouldn't have been green lighted for publication. AC has those too. Your examples of bike locks and hand vacs are two that I agree with that should not be there.

    Let's take an example from AC....Say an article for Chrome comes up. I can get that because Chrome is on every Android device, not to mention Chrome OS which AC also covers. That is an article I fully expect to see on AC. It's this kind of article that would be the equivalent on iMore that I was referring to.
    Rob Phillips and Laura Knotek like this.
    04-26-2018 09:58 AM
  24. metllicamilitia's Avatar
    I just want to pipe in about the bike lock, hand drill, etc. type posts. Those are usually Thrifter articles. I’m ok with that since Thrifter is MoNa and it’s a way for them to share Thrifter links to accrue more capital which if effective could reduce or eventually remove the ads everyone so despises.
    Annie_8plus and djrakowski like this.
    04-26-2018 11:20 AM
  25. Annie_8plus's Avatar
    I just want to pipe in about the bike lock, hand drill, etc. type posts. Those are usually Thrifter articles. I’m ok with that since Thrifter is MoNa and it’s a way for them to share Thrifter links to accrue more capital which if effective could reduce or eventually remove the ads everyone so despises.
    Agree 100%
    04-26-2018 11:25 AM
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