1. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Again, I just think it interesting that Trump was literally saying this exact thing when Obama was elected. The man we put in office literally said, "Lets fight like hell and stop this great and disgusting injustice". We can't pretend like the people who dislike this outcome and are protesting are completely in the wrong here. They are in the wrong to Trump supporters because they disagree. But the man you all voted for was calling on people to do these same exact things. I have zero issues with Trump supporters. I just think we have to look at all angles sometimes.

    I agree with your second point. No minds will be changed. But sometimes these conversations are interesting as long as they remain respectful.
    It goes deeper than that. This nation was founded on certain principles, and the founders had a vision for the power to remain in the hands of we the people. Over the years, those powers have eroded, and if you've paid any attention to what's been going on over the past 8 years, then you've noticed that the erosion have reached new heights. Plain and simple, he was a bully, and he used his color, his status as the first black President and the help of an obedient press to do things contrary to the way the founders had intended. People wanted the "un-American vision" of BHO to fail, not the man himself. The President-elect was chosen, in part, to rectify the damage caused by that vision. I'm not going to waste my time going into details. To say that Trump has spoken hurtful things and then turn around and downplay the hurtful things spoken by the loser is hypocritical. Anyway, I've got to get ready for work. Take care and have a great day.
    Last edited by Just_Me_D; 11-18-2016 at 12:39 PM.
    kch50428 likes this.
    11-18-2016 11:56 AM
  2. Ledsteplin's Avatar
    Those words caused fear? That's interesting. Then I'd imagine you of all people should understand the fear of Trump, even if you don't agree with it. You felt the exact same way about a man you didn't know 8 years ago as you've admitted.

    I think this quote is important in my questioning of your fear.



    That is the quote that seemingly cause you "fear". What exactly is said there that is any different than what Trump has been saying? Aside from the words "fundamentally change America". His message was very similar to what people are hearing from Trump. Break down wallstreet, stop lining the pockets of the rich and build the hard working middle class.


    I think the big fear of Trump is the climate his campaign has created. I think it is being naive to pretend as though there isn't a large division in this country right now with his election. Some of the hate spewed during his rallies (I know the conspiracy is all of that was created and fake but there was some real hate at times as well). Not at all of his rallies and not by all of his supporters but it was real. And it has been heavily documented. His implication on bringing back stop and frisk during the second debate. His misogynistic rhetoric (blood coming out of her "wherever", grab them by the p****, Rosie is a fat pig, slamming Ted Cruz's wife, etc). His quickness to push conspiracy theory and unsubstantiated statistics as fact (Ted Cruzs dad may have had something to do with JFKs killing, retweeting horribly incorrect stats on black crime from an unfounded website). His total hypocrisy (See my above pic showing tweets from him after Obama was elected promoting the same thing he is now against).

    All of that combined scares me. What kind of man did we just put in the office? And what does it say to our kids? You can say and do whatever you please as long as you promise to make our lives better? I like his "vision". That vision offered by any other person would be awesome, imo. But it's the PERSON that I have an issue with.
    Because I already knew a bit about him and his far left views.
    11-18-2016 12:47 PM
  3. Evilguppy's Avatar
    Just look at the way he's behaving now. Look at the characters he has put in his cabinet. I can't get on board with that. But they say if you don't like it here then leave, well, that's exactly what I'm trying to do as soon as my paperwork gets through the consulate. I can deal with a country that has problems and is imperfect but not with one whose premise is to hate the very people who built it in the first place. I will never respect that and I refuse to partake in such a fascistic system, so I spent almost 32 years here, but I will not call my president a troglodyte whose success oozed out of hating and discriminating. My birth country saw first hand what happens when you ignore or trivialize hate, I'm not sticking around for that.
    I have loved America since the day I set foot here and getting my US citizenship was one of the highlights of my life but as a woman and as an immigrant, I can see the writing on the wall.
    11-22-2016 09:15 AM
  4. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Just look at the way he's behaving now.
    How is he behaving? I see a man seriously preparing himself to be POTUS.
    Look at the characters he has put in his cabinet. I can't get on board with that.
    What specifically has those characters done that offends you or has you concerned?
    But they say if you don't like it here then leave, well, that's exactly what I'm trying to do as soon as my paperwork gets through the consulate.
    Are you serious?
    I can deal with a country that has problems and is imperfect but not with one whose premise is to hate the very people who built it in the first place.
    Are you hearing yourself?
    I will never respect that and I refuse to partake in such a fascistic system,
    Yet, you didn't have any problems overlooking the fascist nature in which BHO presided.
    so I spent almost 32 years here, but I will not call my president a troglodyte whose success oozed out of hating and discriminating. My birth country saw first hand what happens when you ignore or trivialize hate, I'm not sticking around for that.
    Have you not been paying attention to what's been going on over the past 8 years?
    I have loved America since the day I set foot here and getting my US citizenship was one of the highlights of my life but as a woman and as an immigrant, I can see the writing on the wall.
    I was born during the civil rights era and witnessed numerous instances of systematic hatred. Yet, my love for this country and its Constitution, my shameless belief and acceptance of Christ as Lord and Savior as well as my upbringing, will not allow those instances of racism and hatred that I've experienced to overshadow what's good and decent about this country and its people. I've seen numerous Presidents heading this nation, some good and some not so good, and yet, we've always found a way to cope. This time around will not be any different. In fact, I suspect things to improve drastically for this nation. I suppose we'll know soon enough. Anyway, take care....
    11-22-2016 07:11 PM
  5. Evilguppy's Avatar
    So you approve of Steve Bannon. You have no issues with racism, bigotry, discrimination, misogyny. And you're okay with a president that has zero political experience, has been accused by numerous people of revolting acts, was endorsed by every hate group during his campaign, is already showing his penchant for nepotism, has been linked to financial deals with Russia, and more. You're cool with all that?
    11-22-2016 07:21 PM
  6. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    So you approve of Steve Bannon.
    Yes, and again, what specifically has Mr. Bannon or anyone else on President-elect Trump's transition team done that has troubled you?
    You have no issues with racism, bigotry, discrimination, misogyny.
    Those things have been in existence long before any of us were even born so don't make it seem as if he is the reason for all of it.
    And you're okay with a president that has zero political experience
    What experience did BHO have when he became POTUS? A year in the Senate doesn't count.
    , has been accused by numerous people of revolting acts
    , BHO admitted to getting high and was "accused by numerous people" of not being born an American citizen. Does the accusations make it true?
    was endorsed by every hate group during his campaign
    No candidate has control over who endorses them ,
    is already showing his penchant for nepotism, has been linked to financial deals with Russia, and more. You're cool with all that?
    BHO has been linked to Communists, a church that spews hatred towards whites and Jews, and other things. Are you cool with all of that?
    Last edited by Just_Me_D; 11-22-2016 at 08:52 PM.
    11-22-2016 07:57 PM
  7. Ledsteplin's Avatar
    So you approve of Steve Bannon. You have no issues with racism, bigotry, discrimination, misogyny. And you're okay with a president that has zero political experience, has been accused by numerous people of revolting acts, was endorsed by every hate group during his campaign, is already showing his penchant for nepotism, has been linked to financial deals with Russia, and more. You're cool with all that?
    There's nothing wrong with any of them. Obama and didn't have much experience. Senator a short time, but spent much of that campaigning. I'll take Trump and his vast business experience any day. That's what we need.
    11-22-2016 08:06 PM
  8. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    The NAACP and BLM could just as well be as discriminatory and racist as anything else. They support Obama. Where's the outrage there?
    dsvochak likes this.
    11-22-2016 08:20 PM
  9. Evilguppy's Avatar
    Guys I quit. We have nothing further to discuss, we are clearly from different universes.
    niharikasarma and robertk328 like this.
    11-22-2016 08:24 PM
  10. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Guys I quit. We have nothing further to discuss, we are clearly from different universes.
    It's all good, and we still love you...... In the meantime, take care and have a wonderfully pleasant Thanksgiving.
    11-22-2016 08:28 PM
  11. niharikasarma's Avatar
    I have to completely agree. Like Cheney, I worry that Mike Pence might actually be the one in control here. More than the attacks against minorities, I'm worried about the changes the law and government will undergo. I'm worried a lot about women's reproductive rights and the damage that healthcare will suffer under the reign of a guy that knows nothing about governance.
    11-23-2016 09:01 AM
  12. Ledsteplin's Avatar
    I have to completely agree. Like Cheney, I worry that Mike Pence might actually be the one in control here. More than the attacks against minorities, I'm worried about the changes the law and government will undergo. I'm worried a lot about women's reproductive rights and the damage that healthcare will suffer under the reign of a guy that knows nothing about governance.
    Where do you get your fears and misinformation?
    11-23-2016 10:36 AM
  13. astegmaier's Avatar
    I'm honestly more afraid of what Trump has sparked in America, and think his followers are the ones to worry about. Trump is basically a puppet.
    11-23-2016 10:50 AM
  14. xtremeled's Avatar
    It 11/23/2016, Where is Hillary?
    11-23-2016 10:59 AM
  15. xtremeled's Avatar
    I have to completely agree. Like Cheney, I worry that Mike Pence might actually be the one in control here. More than the attacks against minorities, I'm worried about the changes the law and government will undergo. I'm worried a lot about women's reproductive rights and the damage that healthcare will suffer under the reign of a guy that knows nothing about governance.
    Healthcare suffered the day Obamacare was passed.
    Just_Me_D likes this.
    11-23-2016 11:00 AM
  16. Ledsteplin's Avatar
    I'm honestly more afraid of what Trump has sparked in America, and think his followers are the ones to worry about. Trump is basically a puppet.
    What makes you feel that way? You do realize that the liberal media has been engaged in a massive smear campaign against Trump for over 18 months. A whole lot of made up lies. They wanted Hillary. What do you think he has "sparked"?
    11-23-2016 12:19 PM
  17. Quis89's Avatar
    Plain and simple, he was a bully, and he used his color, his status as the first black President....
    I've always felt this belief is pretty insulting. I've seen no sign of him having ever done that. In fact, there is a large population of African Americans who feel he hasn't done ENOUGH for their community. It's always seemed to me that Obama couldn't simply be a President. He had to be a black man who either used his color to his advantage, or didn't do enough for his "people".

    I also don't like talk of "the founders". The "founders" never intended for a person that looks like Obama with the name Obama to ever become president of the united states. Thomas Jefferson, one of these "founders" you speak of, regarded Negroes as inferior, childlike, untrustworthy and, of course, as property.

    I'm sorry, it just really rubs me wrong when someone tries to justify things by telling me about how "The founders" wanted this country. The way of life when the "founding fathers" were building this country is completely different than the way of life now. Who determines what is or isn't American? It always feels like the people who want things to stay "American" are simply against change and inclusiveness.

    And personally...I've heard no hurtful rhetoric spoken from the losing side. Unless we consider the "Basket of deplorables" remark hurtful. In which case, I point you to the Alt-Right rally held in Washington recently. Alt-right leader: 'Hail Trump! Hail our people! Hail victory!' - CNNPolitics.com

    All trump supporters certainly aren't deplorable. But Trump has definitely given people who I would classify as "deplorable" a platform to stand on. And he has time to cry about the Hamilton cast's respectful request but only disavows the Alt-Right movement after being pressured to do so.
    robertk328 likes this.
    11-23-2016 01:19 PM
  18. Quis89's Avatar
    The NAACP and BLM could just as well be as discriminatory and racist as anything else. They support Obama. Where's the outrage there?
    You can't be serious, lol.
    11-23-2016 01:19 PM
  19. Quis89's Avatar
    What makes you feel that way? You do realize that the liberal media has been engaged in a massive smear campaign against Trump for over 18 months. A whole lot of made up lies. They wanted Hillary. What do you think he has "sparked"?
    Are you implying that Trump never told a single lie during his campaign? That the "liberal media" consistently lied about everything they said about Trump? Come on. You guys can't be serious.

    What bothers me is how blind people are to reality. You can like Trump. You can believe he is right for this country. You can support what he says. But don't pretend like he's a saint. Don't pretend like every negative thing spoken about him was some conspiracy by the liberal media establishment to discredit an amazing man. That is honestly what irritates me the most. The blind faith. The same people that will talk about how the media lies on Trump were probably the same ones questioning Obama's birthplace, claiming he was going to enact marshal law, saying hillary was going to take everyones guns, etc. You can't make up your own truth.
    robertk328 likes this.
    11-23-2016 01:25 PM
  20. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    You can't be serious, lol.
    Of course I am. Give me solid arguments on the contrary that prove that those groups aren't discrimaniatory towards any group of people who don't have dark colored skin. That's exactly why they exist. The "equality" argument is stale.
    11-23-2016 01:29 PM
  21. Ledsteplin's Avatar
    Are you implying that Trump never told a single lie during his campaign? That the "liberal media" consistently lied about everything they said about Trump? Come on. You guys can't be serious.

    What bothers me is how blind people are to reality. You can like Trump. You can believe he is right for this country. You can support what he says. But don't pretend like he's a saint. Don't pretend like every negative thing spoken about him was some conspiracy by the liberal media establishment to discredit an amazing man. That is honestly what irritates me the most. The blind faith. The same people that will talk about how the media lies on Trump were probably the same ones questioning Obama's birthplace, claiming he was going to enact marshal law, saying hillary was going to take everyones guns, etc. You can't make up your own truth.
    No evidence that I've seen. None!
    11-23-2016 01:29 PM
  22. Quis89's Avatar
    Of course I am. Give me solid arguments on the contrary that prove that those groups aren't discrimaniatory towards any group of people who don't have dark colored skin. That's exactly why they exist. The "equality" argument is stale.
    I can't believe this honestly. People of color can't even have groups that look out for and protect their equality without being accused of discrimination and racism??? Those are the very things these groups were formed to fight against lol. I can't believe we live in a country where the moment a marginalized group bands together to fight against oppression, their mission is diluted with outrageous accusations of racism and discrimination. Without a group like the NAACP I wouldn't be working where I work, allowed in the schools I've attended or befriended the people I've befriended.

    BLM is a leaderless movement which explains their problems. They have no direct mission. The climate in which they are birthed is understood. Their mission was simply Black Lives Matter (Too). They've been marred by people using that name for the wrong reasons and acts. I don't support the BLM movement as a whole because I believe it needs to do more to contain itself. But I don't feel it is a hate group as a whole.

    Wow. I'm honestly floored that people legitimately associate groups based on equality and inclusiveness to hate groups.

    Someone has actually tried to convince me that the NAACP and KKK were one in the same. To know that belief exists is extremely troubling to me. That shows this country really has a long way to go in terms of empathy.
    11-23-2016 01:43 PM
  23. Quis89's Avatar
    No evidence that I've seen. None!
    I think there is a difference between the lack of evidence and you simply not caring about it.


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...y.html?0p19G=c

    Further proof of his dishonest use of funds from the Trump Foundation donations.
    robertk328 likes this.
    11-23-2016 01:49 PM
  24. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    I can't believe this honestly. People of color can't even have groups that look out for and protect their equality without being accused of discrimination and racism??? Those are the very things these groups were formed to fight against lol.
    Because as soon as a group of white people who feel opressed come out, people are quick to point them out as racists, too. See what I'm saying here?

    Discloure: I am born and raised in Southern California and am not white.


    Without a group like the NAACP I wouldn't be working where I work, allowed in the schools I've attended or befriended the people I've befriended.
    No argument there. I wouldn't have many of the friends I have if it wasn't for the NAACP. However the NAACP of today as opposed to 50 years ago isn't the same.

    BLM is a leaderless movement which explains their problems. They have no direct mission. The climate in which they are birthed is understood. Their mission was simply Black Lives Matter (Too). They've been marred by people using that name for the wrong reasons and acts. I don't support the BLM movement as a whole because I believe it needs to do more to contain itself. But I don't feel it is a hate group as a whole.
    You're misconstruing what I have said. Being dicriminatory or even racist doesn't necessarily equate to being hateful. It more implies one group of people wanting more power over all others.

    Someone has actually tried to convince me that the NAACP and KKK were one in the same.
    Dude, really? See above reply.

    Edit: Always remember that a sitting president or president elect can't just spend their time disavowing everything that comes their way. Imagine if Obama had to respond to each and every thing as people want Trump to do. Now each and everytime some Nazis or KKK members come out for Trump he's supposed to respond? He can't control that and that's quite unfair to ask him to get control over it.
    11-23-2016 01:50 PM
  25. Quis89's Avatar
    Because as soon as a group of white people who feel opressed come out, people are quick to point them out as racists, too. See what I'm saying here?
    Do you have evidence or something to point to for this? For example...
    Campus police investigating racist posters at Iowa State

    This is a story of a group of white students who posted fliers around their campus. The fliers read, "In 1950, America was 90 percent white. It is now only 60 percent white. Will you become a minority in your own country?"

    I would argue this IS racist. I haven't seen many stories of white people, feeling oppressed and had numbers to support this oppression. I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I'm simply saying I would be interested in seeing the stories. If you tell me that white people are being discriminated against in the workplace and making less than their Hispanic co-workers then I will absolutely fight with you on that. But I don't see those stories. I see stories like the ones I posted. It's all about presentation.



    Edit: Always remember that a sitting president or president elect can't just spend their time disavowing everything that comes their way. Imagine if Obama had to respond to each and every thing as people want Trump to do. Now each and everytime some Nazis or KKK members come out for Trump he's supposed to respond? He can't control that and that's quite unfair to ask him to get control over it.
    This is interesting. People have been yelling that Obama needs to speak out against BLM for a LONG time.

    Black Lives Matter needs some tough love from Obama | TheHill

    Or people upset because Obama never disavowed Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

    Or the whole birther issue.

    Or people blaming race relations on Obama.

    See the trend here?

    The biggest thing I look forward to this presidency are the double standards. I can't wait for rationals to be made about the same things Obama was taken to task for.
    11-23-2016 02:07 PM
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