1. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    I know this is a VERY heated subject...let's try to refrain from personal shots and discuss the subject as adults.

    So I'm curious how many of you are truly offended by this flag?



    ...I had a long discussion with one of my buddies the other day about this. He's black, served in the marines for 8 years, and grew up in the south. I told him I was of the opinion that a person should not be offended by a flag because people did evil things in it's shadow...and he responded that he felt that the flag was CREATED with evil intentions...that it represents the idea that slavery should have remained legal and appropriate, and that the people who defended the 13 confederate states did so with passionate defense of retaining slaves.

    But he stopped there and addressed the fact that the flag is in fact a very valuable piece of American history, and that he feels it should be displayed, but not flown...as displaying it allows for historic recollection.

    I agree with most of his points, but have always felt that the flag should be flown at historic monuments relating to the civil war...and because we have so many here in Georgia, it has become a very touchy subject. To me...the flag itself is not so much a symbol of historic evil as it is an easy target because of the people who have used it to represent such, and because of that, I don't feel it necessary to have it removed from places who still fly it officially (since those places are also, 99% of the time, relevant to some kind of historic civil war monument, registry or location).

    To me, the only real PROBLEM with the flag is the ignorant rednecks that use it as a symbol of their starch racism that they like to shove in people's face...whether they fly it on their trucks or hang it on the front of their homes, when a person does it with the intention of brandishing bigotry, to me that is just flat out wrong.
    07-03-2015 10:02 AM
  2. blackmagicwoman's Avatar
    I live in Tennessee and the Mississippi state line is within a 20 mile radius. I have no problem with the Confederate flag. It is past history and only that to me. As African American female who grew up in the South I actually feel that there were more atrocities committed under the American flag. The fight for human rights was more important to me than picking on the Confederate flag. Let it be.
    Just_Me_D and EmceeGeek like this.
    07-03-2015 10:10 AM
  3. Ledsteplin's Avatar
    I never thought of it as having anything to do with race or slavery. For me it represents a southern lifestyle, laid back on the front porch sipping a mint julep. It never seemed to be an issue until recent years. It seemed to me there were those just looking for something to make a race issue our of. I live in the northwest corner of Alabama. A stones throw from @blackmagicwoman. We all get along here. I see the flag displayed occasionally. But it's no issue. I'm sure there are those who don't like it. But I see things I don't like too. But I have fairly thick skin and it bounces off. We seem to be blaming that flag on a church killing. Many people have that flag who are not racist or killers. I have one myself. I also have an American Flag folded properly like a flick football.
    07-03-2015 10:50 AM
  4. diggity's Avatar
    To me, the only real PROBLEM with the flag is the ignorant rednecks that use it as a symbol of their starch racism that they like to shove in people's face...whether they fly it on their trucks or hang it on the front of their homes, when a person does it with the intention of brandishing bigotry, to me that is just flat out wrong.
    In total agreement with the last paragraph. I see this a lot in Oklahoma, where certain fools like to say it represents their 'southern pride'...despite the fact that Oklahoma is not a southern state, and also wasn't a state until after the civil war. Just a lot of folks out there borrowing other people's history to promote their own ignorance, IMHO. This is the only thing I find offensive about the flag, which is really not a problem with the flag itself. I agree it should be a part of historical war memorials/museums, etc., but I do understand the reasoning by some that say it should not be flown on government property.

    As for the decisions made by Amazon, Apple, etc. to not sell products with the image of flag visible, I really have no opinion. It is their business, and their choice to make what products they sell. People who don't like it can always take their business elsewhere.

    Understand that these are the opinions of a white guy who is not from the South, which is probably not considered all that important from a lot of folks that actually live in these areas. Just answering the question since you asked.
    07-03-2015 10:54 AM
  5. blackmagicwoman's Avatar
    I live 3 miles from the statue of Nathan Bedford Park. I work 1 mile away from it. I pass it every day en route to work and home. There is a public outcry to have the statue, graves and all remnants of its existence removed. I hate when African Americans think that anything having to do with our past that is not approved by them need to be demolished and abolished. I am a female African American who grew up in the tense times in Memphis Tennessee. It's the same town where Martin Luther King was gunned down by someone other than James Earl Ray. I'm so sick of people who want to play the race card. That Confederate flag is a part of other people's heritage as well. I wouldn't want anyone to petition taking down the statue of Martin Luther King or that beautiful statue of ElvisPresley. Racism is live, well and and breeding all over the world. Fly the flag high and proud. I've got more pressing issues to take up time. V.
    Just_Me_D and wbeard385 like this.
    07-03-2015 11:34 AM
  6. Algus's Avatar
    Oh boy.

    I don't have a problem with the flag or even with someone wanting to wave the flag. But if you associate yourself with this flag, you need to be prepared to accept the fact that people are going to be predisposed to judge you for waving the flag. It is a symbol and symbols are powerful things that mean different things to different people.

    Both sides of the argument have valid points and people who feel strongly about it one way or the other spend to much time screaming at each other to understand those points.

    Now that said, I don't get why we fly this flag on government buildings. It's the flag of an enemy nation at best.

    I have no issue with flying this flag over memorials, monuments, etc. We shouldn't hide this flag. We need to remember the past for all the mistakes that were made that led to it (including some of the very valid criticisms the South had with the North that didnt involve "dey're taekin mai free laborz")
    freediverx likes this.
    07-03-2015 12:00 PM
  7. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Oh boy.

    I don't have a problem with the flag or even with someone wanting to wave the flag. But if you associate yourself with this flag, you need to be prepared to accept the fact that people are going to be predisposed to judge you for waving the flag. It is a symbol and symbols are powerful things that mean different things to different people.

    Both sides of the argument have valid points and people who feel strongly about it one way or the other spend to much time screaming at each other to understand those points.

    Now that said, I don't get why we fly this flag on government buildings. It's the flag of an enemy nation at best.

    I have no issue with flying this flag over memorials, monuments, etc. We shouldn't hide this flag. We need to remember the past for all the mistakes that were made that led to it (including some of the very valid criticisms the South had with the North that didnt involve "dey're taekin mai free laborz")
    "Enemy" can be a tricky term...a group of states who banded together to support states rights and eventually became the confederacy is something I would hardly consider an "enemy"...we're living in a country today that affords states individual rights beyond what the federal government applies thanks to the 13 original confederate states, and those who valued those states rights.

    Now there were some ugly pieces of that too...slavery being at the forefront...but this was not a war that was fought over a singular issue, and it was not a war that was simply won or lost by either side of the fence...our country was created with ideals combined from both sides.

    Also, that flag you see was also a very important tool that was originally created so confederate soldiers could tell their own from the opposing fighting forces (since the original stars and bars very closely resembled old glory and became hard to distinguish in battle).

    So to use the word "enemy" doesn't seem to reflect the reality of what that flag represents, especially today as we look back at it as a whole. Flags for the states (and throughout the world really) tend to reflect specific historic events...the south was banded together as a group of states with similar interests, so it's no wonder they integrated the design into the flag itself throughout the south.

    Georgia's new state flag actually reflects the original stars and bars MORE than the confederate flag they removed.
    blackmagicwoman likes this.
    07-03-2015 12:13 PM
  8. Algus's Avatar
    Well, I guess if I lived in the 1800s I would be considered a staunch Unionist, heh. One side's insurrection is another side's revolution. This brings me back to my point that symbols mean different things to different people. However, I certainly don't disagree with you that the war was about more than just slavery which is a point the anti-flag crowd often gets lost in. I will maintain however that as a nation that opposed us militarily and that we found necessary to disestablish through armed combat, it is inappropriate to fly this flag on government buildings that are not specifically dedicated memorials to the lives that were lost in the Civil War.
    07-03-2015 12:32 PM
  9. Ledsteplin's Avatar
    Well, I guess if I lived in the 1800s I would be considered a staunch Unionist, heh. One side's insurrection is another side's revolution. This brings me back to my point that symbols mean different things to different people. However, I certainly don't disagree with you that the war was about more than just slavery which is a point the anti-flag crowd often gets lost in. I will maintain however that as a nation that opposed us militarily and that we found necessary to disestablish through armed combat, it is inappropriate to fly this flag on government buildings that are not specifically dedicated memorials to the lives that were lost in the Civil War.
    Agree! But neither should a host of other flags be flown on government buildings. That should be reserved for the U.S. Flag, State flags, and other governmental flags.
    07-03-2015 12:45 PM
  10. HankAZ's Avatar
    I don't see the flag as a symbol of hatred or racism. I grew up in Indiana, and it was never an issue for me. My high school mascot was the "Rebels", and for a time, the flag was part of "school spirit" days and events. Of course that was 40+ years ago, too.

    Even if it *IS* seen as a symbol of hate and racism, it should not be scrubbed from our history. You cannot rewrite the history of America and leave out the ugly parts. That history, in its entirety, tells the story of this nation - from where it started to where it is today. And the struggles are integral and important parts of that history.

    Sadly, 240 years later, hatred and racism still exist in America. That hatred and racism, no matter how wrong and no matter how condemned it is by the majority, will continue, regardless of the existence of any flag. And of course, once someone suggests removing the flag from public displays, the political correctness wonks get in the picture and are bent on removing every glimpse of the flag, regardless of the instance or application. Now they have removed Dukes of Hazzard reruns from TVLand. How ridiculous is that, really?

    The Civil War was an important part of our history. As others have said, that war was about more than just slavery, but that seems the be the focus. So we scrub all instances of the Confederacy from our history. What's the big deal? History is already being rewritten by the liberals anyway, and this is just another step down that path.

    God, I miss MY America.
    07-03-2015 01:13 PM
  11. Soeasy's Avatar
    I'm was born and raised in NYC. Manhattan. Upper East Side. I've traveled a great deal. Lived in Tokyo for a year while working on a project and have spent months in South America working on other project.

    What I've come to understand is the following.

    For some reason I cannot truly fathom, Blacks, African Americans, Africans, People of Dark Pigment seem to be the most despised people on earth to whites and other cultures.

    No matter where I've been, people seem to look upon Blacks(in their many colors) with a level of disdain that makes no logical sense. At least to me. I spent my first 12 years out of school on Wall Street as an analyst. White Wall street guys hate everybody than is not a White Male. Asians, Middle Easterners, Jews(but never to their faces. Because they would say the Jews run everything), Arabs, Women(even the white ones. Unless they're trying to sleep with them, so women become objects of conquest) etc... Everyone gets put down at some point. But the animosity towards African Americans(and Latinos) was usually 3x or 4x the usual jokes and jabs.

    I stated in a post a while back that when I would travel to West Virginia, some of the impoverished there openly stated that they would rather be destitute and white than rich and black.

    For some reason that I honestly can't comprehend. Lots of people just don't like black people.

    Again, I live in NYC. My experience with Minorities has largely been favorable. I know more lawyers who are Black, Latin, Arab than I do White ones.

    My dentist in Tribeca is Iranian and said the be one of the best in the city.

    I've also come to realize that I live in a city where everyone is exposed to differnt cultures on a daily basis and in many ways it forces you to look past an individual's skin color and focus more on their character. That's why I would not raise my children anywhere else... But here. Let them meet people of all types and make up their on minds with predjudice. But that's here where I live...

    On to the flag.

    Historical Fact:

    The Confederacy States of America were formed on a simple basic tenent. That whites were superior to blacks and that slavery was the only viable option for "the negro". Anyone who says anything different is either lying or making an attempt to rationalize their way of thinking.

    Alexander Stephens, the Vice President of the Confederacy declared on March 21, 1861, the following:

    That the Confederacy was "founded . . . its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based on this great physical, philosophical and moral truth."

    When Texas petitioned to secede from the Union. Their declaration was with regards to slavery:

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal" "the debasing doctrine of equality of all men, irrespective of race or color . . . a doctrine at war with nature . . . and in violation of the plainest revelations of Divine Law."

    "Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated States to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility [sic] and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery--the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits--a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time."

    I respectfully disagree with any and all who say that the Conferate Flag is NOT a symbol of the oppression and enslavement of African Americans. The Flag represented the Confederate States. The Confederate States were formed to protect the institution of slavery.

    You CANNOT differentiate between the Confederacy and it's chosen symbol.
    Last edited by Soeasy; 07-05-2015 at 10:47 AM. Reason: Typos.
    07-04-2015 10:46 PM
  12. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    I'm sick and tired of this crap. Activists and other race-baiting professionals using everything they can think of to keep the citizens of this great nation divided. Now it's the Confederate flag. Give me a friggin' break! That particular flag nor any other flag has never harmed me or anyone I know, and as has already been stated, it is a part of the American history. Just because 'some' people view it in a negative manner, it doesn't give them the right to try to erase it from our psyche as if it never existed. Anyway, to answer your question, I am in no way,, shape or form offended by the Confederate flag.
    Last edited by Just_Me_D; 07-05-2015 at 10:53 AM.
    zerog46, Bigeric23 and kd7irm like this.
    07-04-2015 11:18 PM
  13. HankAZ's Avatar
    I'm sick and tired of this crap. Activists and other race-baiting professionals using everything they can think of to keep the citizens of this great nation divided. Now it's the confederate flag. Give me a friggin' break! That particular flag nor any other flag has ever harmed me or anyone I know, and as has already been stated, it is a part of the American history. Just because 'some' people view it in a negative manner, it doesn't give them the right to try to erase it from our psyche as if it never existed. Anyway, to answer your question, I am in no way,, shape or form offended by the Confederate flag.
    Excellent post, D.

    Sadly, these types want to purge any idea of the Confederacy from our nation's history. As the saying goes, "those who won't learn from history are doomed to repeat it". The problem with the currently prevailing attitude in this country is not only do they refuse to learn from history, they are now refusing to acknowledge that it even happened.

    The days of slavery were a dark spot in this country's history, but it is a time that must not be scrubbed from our history. Otherwise, it certainly be repeated.
    07-04-2015 11:40 PM
  14. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    I respectfully disagree with any and all who say that the Conferate Flag is NOT a symbol of the oppression and enslavement of African Americans. The Flag represented the Confederate States. The Confederate States were formed to protect the institution of slavery.

    You CANNOT differentiate between the Confederacy and it's chosen symbol.
    Your argument is based on the idea that the ONLY reflective thought and purpose of the confederacy was to protect their rights to own slaves...that is purely false. The confederacy believed in states rights...states rights that maintained a smaller overall government under a more democratic guise (strange since the majority of the south is now clearly republican biased, but that is another can of worms).

    Was slavery a very large part of this? Absolutely. In fact, it was almost unquestionably the largest part of this...the southern states were not as industrialized so they very heavily relied on slave labor for trade.

    Here's the kicker though...the part that most people like to either ignore or are simply uneducated on...the union was not ANTI-Slavery...they were PRO-Unionization. Abraham Lincoln famously said himself that his focus was to strengthen the union, and that he would strive to do that whether it meant continuing and furthering slave labor or completely abolishing it...whichever method would strengthen the union and engross it with the various things the confederate states brought to the table (money, votes, goods, etc).

    So at the end of the day, while so many people believe, whole heartedly, that the civil war was a war being fought over the abolishment of slavery...it was very much a different scenario all together...hell, Lincoln himself, the man who is so commonly known to have brought an end to slavery, was actually a part of and married into wealthy southern slave owning/trading families (as were all presidents back then).

    The bottom line is...the entire country was using slave labor in various degrees...the south just happened to be the hub of many trades that required significant slave labor in higher numbers...and because removing that cold turkey would obliterate the economy in the confederate states, what would any logical person looking at the overall function and performance of the country THINK would happen if they were told "Nope...you gotta stop...this is wrong...figure something else out." I mean sure, its the right thing to do, the choice to do it in the first place is disgusting and anyone who owned a slave and felt ok about it was just a piece of sh*t back then...but that is the way the world was, they didn't live in a world where these things were ever anything but the norm.

    So this flag...this "symbol of enslavement" as you called it was really not...it was just a flag...it was a flag representing the 13 confederate states who were anti-unionization and pro-states rights. It represented that in a defined and clear way. They did not sit around a table and say "Let's make this flag so that blacks know they are slaves! WOO HOO!" Nope, that just happens to be the way the world spun around in the shadow of that flag.

    We could decide TODAY that paying a mexican guy $10 to mow your grass is a disgusting practice that dehumanizes those people and should be considered on the level of slavery given the nature of doing manual labor for next to no compensation for the service rendered by people who face little to no optional choice. In 50 years, do we look back at every states flag as a symbol in the same light the confederate flag is being viewed?
    Just_Me_D and kd7irm like this.
    07-05-2015 01:50 AM
  15. gdruin74's Avatar
    Everyone has seen the flag at some point in their lives and never gave it a second thought. People only started being offended by it after this country dividing administration said they should be. A man kills people in a church and they blame a flag and a gun not the man. Then use it to push gun control. But when an illegal alien with previous arrests kills a girl in San Francisco the administration doesn't seem to care. Whether by race, income or religious beliefs this administration and the media only seem to care about dividing the country. Then while the country is debating the flag and gay marriage the TPP gets passed but since the national media is on Obama's side you won't hear about that.
    Just_Me_D likes this.
    07-05-2015 09:04 AM
  16. SprSynJn's Avatar
    I have to agree with many on here. I grew up in California and the very thought of the Confederate flag there seems to get everyone in a foul mood. I must admit that seeing it in my childhood didn't provide the best memories, mainly due to TV and the few who fly it willingly over there. Now that I am grown, and my family lives in Tennessee, I actually like seeing it. By that I mean I like seeing it as part of our history. My best friend in high school was biracial and my wife is a foreigner, so I cannot say that racism doesn't tick me off. However, I also love history and love returning to where my family lives to see all the history that went on there. That includes all the plantations and areas that the Civil War were part of. I enjoy hearing the stories of what happened there with no hint of arrogance or prejudice. History is history. It can either be hated, or learned from. I prefer the latter. I say let it be.
    07-05-2015 09:58 AM
  17. Ledsteplin's Avatar
    I agree with what Charlie Daniels has said about this whole issue. I think the flag does represent a bit of defiance against untruths spoken about southerners over the years. I see it on Twitter all the time. We get called "Racists" just because we live in the South. There's definitely that element. And they are wrong. We're not like that at all. Here's what Mr. Daniels had to say:

    "The recent senseless act of slaughter in a church in Charleston, South Carolina awakened America to the ever-present lunacy and evil that walks among us, and it has also reopened some old wounds and deep feelings on both sides of a long festering situation.

    Before I go any farther with this piece, I wish to express my love and admiration for the people of Charleston, who have, in the face of immense pain, shown a restraint and a common sense seldom seen in tragic situations involving race.

    When I saw the pictures of the people who had been murdered, I made the statement, "I know these people," which I didn't mean literally, but figuratively. They were the kind of Christian people I have been around all my life worked with and sat in the pews of churches with salt of the earth folks, who not only professed to know the Lord Jesus Christ, but lived their faith every day of their lives.

    These are the kind of people you want to have praying for you, the kind who know how to put their arms around a hurting person and comfort and console. They are the kind of people who raised their families to turn to Almighty God in times of trouble and heartbreak, proven by the forgiving words spoken by family members in court to the monster who had wantonly murdered their loved ones.

    As in all Satan inspired iniquity, God has the ability to bring great good, and in this situation, the people of Charleston, South Carolina have shown the depth of common sense and class that exists in that community. More importantly, they showed the world what being a Christian is all about.

    I feel sure that a jury of peers in South Carolina will see that Dylann Roof gets whats coming to him, and justice will be served and meted out to the full extent of the law.

    In relation to the main crux of my column today, I would like to relate an experience I had in a Midwestern city when the band was appearing with the local symphony orchestra.

    In the evening before the show started, one of the venue staff came to me and said, "There is a gentleman out front who is offended by the confederate flag on your piano."

    I responded that we didn't have a Confederate flag painted on our piano.

    The upshot of the whole thing was that Taz, our keyboard player, had an American flag and a Tennessee flag with the flagstaffs crossed on the front of his piano, with a drawing of his namesake, a cartoon Tasmanian Devil, and the phrase "Yessiree, Tennessee" painted under it.

    The point I'm making is that this gentleman was probably the kind of person who looks for something to be offended about and sees things that aren't even there.

    Of course, the situation concerning the Confederate flag in Charleston is a much more serious situation with justifiable feelings that go back a century and a half, and the problem has the potential to be a racially divisive one.

    The bottom line is that the flag in question represents one thing to some people and another thing to others.

    Far be it from me to advise the people of South Carolina or any other state as to what they should fly over their capitol buildings, or anywhere else in the state for that matter, but I truly hate to see the opportunists move in and create a symbol of hate out of a simple piece of cloth.

    Of course, we know most politicians are going to chime in and glean whatever political hay that is available, but in my book, the corporate rush to rid their shelves of anything with the Confederate battle flag on it is pure hypocrisy.

    If they felt that deeply about the subject, they should have done something years ago, and I notice they have no problem accepting the profits from the merchandise they have on hand.

    I have received many requests to do interviews on this subject and had a lot of tweets asking me to comment, but I declined, wanting to take the time to explain my feelings in detail, without having to answer other people's loaded questions or express myself in a 140-character limit on Twitter.

    This will have the potential to be lengthy, so bear with me and I will try my best to relate my honest feelings on the Confederate flag in question, which was actually the battle flag carried by several Confederate army regiments and was not the official flag of the Confederacy.

    I was born in 1936, a mere 71 years after the Civil War ended, when the South was looked upon by what seemed to be a majority of the Northern States as an inbred, backward, uneducated, slow-talking and slower-thinking people, with low morals and a propensity for incest.

    This was in the days before television, and about all the folks up North knew about Southerners was what they heard. There were a lot of people who took great pleasure in proliferating the myth, and some still do it to this day.

    As you might suppose, people in the South bitterly resented this attitude of superiority, and in some quarters the words damn and Yankee became one word. And a somewhat fierce type of Southern pride came into being.

    The Confederate battle flag was a sign of defiance, a sign of pride, a declaration of a geographical area that you were proud to be from.

    Thats all it is to me and all it has ever been to me.

    I cant speak for all, but I know in my heart that most Southerners feel the same way.

    I have no desire to reinstate the Confederacy. I oppose slavery as vehemently as any man, and I believe that every human being, regardless of the color of their skin, is just as valuable as I am and deserves the exact same rights and advantages as I do.

    I feel that this controversy desperately needs to be settled without federal interference and input from race baiters like Al Sharpton. It's up to the individual states as to what they allow to be a part of their public image. What the majority of the people of any given state want should, in my opinion, be their policy.

    Unfortunately, the Confederate battle flag has been adopted by hate groups and individuals like Dylann Roof to supposedly represent them and their hateful view of the races.

    Please believe me when I say that, to the overwhelming majority of Southerners, the flag represents no such thing, but is simply a banner denoting an area of the nation and one's pride in living there.

    I know there will be those who will take these words of mine, try to twist them or call them insincere and try to make what I've said here some kind of anti-black racial statement, but I tell everybody who reads this article, I came up in the days of cruel racial prejudice and Jim Crow laws, when the courts were tilted against any black man, when the segregated educational system was inferior and when opportunities for blacks to advance were almost nonexistent.

    I lived through the useless cruelty of those days and did not get my feelings out of some sensitivity class or social studies course, but made my own decisions out of experience and disgust.

    I hold no ill feelings and have no axes to grind with my brothers and sisters of any color. The same God made us; the same God will judge us; and I pray that He will intervene in the deep racial divide we have in this nation and make each person black or white see each other for what we truly are, human beings. No better, and no worse.

    It's time to do away with labels: Caucasian-American, African-American, Asian-American, Native American and so forth.

    How about just a simple "AMERICAN"?

    What do you think?

    Pray for our troops and the peace of Jerusalem.

    God Bless America

    Charlie Daniels"
    dchandler and dick.neri like this.
    07-05-2015 10:07 AM
  18. ctt1wbw's Avatar
    Has anyone brought up the fact that this is NOT the Confederate flag? It's a battle flag, which I think started in Tennessee. It's not even the official flag flown by the CSA.
    07-05-2015 10:23 AM
  19. Soeasy's Avatar
    We could decide TODAY that paying a mexican guy $10 to mow your grass is a disgusting practice that dehumanizes those people and should be considered on the level of slavery given the nature of doing manual labor for next to no compensation for the service rendered by people who face little to no optional choice. In 50 years, do we look back at every states flag as a symbol in the same light the confederate flag is being viewed?
    I mean no disrespect to you Sean. I like and enjoy reading your posts. But, this actually a terrible analogy to make.

    I say this because the Mexican has the freedom to make a 'choice' as to wheter or not he/she will work for that $10 an hour.

    He/she can say 'yes' and get to mwing or they can say 'no' and are free to pursue other interests.

    Slaves have/had no such freedom. The work when and how they are old. Or there are consequences. Harsh ones.

    My view on this is really simple. The flag has no power over me. It should have no power over any individual who chooses not to give power to it.

    But, if you ask me whether or not it should be flown from the State's main building, which is supposed to represent ALL the citizens of that state.

    Then I would wholeheartedly say no.

    The Swastika is a symbol that had been is use for 5000 years before the Nazi party made it their symbol. It's just a symbol.

    And yet you don't see a Swaztika hanging from any State buildings.
    Last edited by Soeasy; 07-05-2015 at 10:55 AM. Reason: typos.
    07-05-2015 10:43 AM
  20. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Excellent post, D.

    Sadly, these types want to purge any idea of the Confederacy from our nation's history. As the saying goes, "those who won't learn from history are doomed to repeat it". The problem with the currently prevailing attitude in this country is not only do they refuse to learn from history, they are now refusing to acknowledge that it even happened.

    The days of slavery were a dark spot in this country's history, but it is a time that must not be scrubbed from our history. Otherwise, it certainly be repeated.
    No doubt, and what really ticks me off is how people tend to 'think' that American slavery was the worst kind of slavery ever. How ridiculous! Compared to Biblical slavery, and even slavery that's still in effect, American slavery was a cake walk. For those of you who are quick to misrepresent what I just stated, let me clarify. In no way am I saying that slavery in America wasn't harsh or even downright inhumane. I am saying that slaves in other sections of the world had it worse. Having said that, so many people made personal and financial sacrifices to make every American free, and now that we are, numerous activists and race-baiters are convincing far too many of you to disregard the very document that protects our overall liberty, and they're using our own selfishness to do it. When you finally realize what's happened, it'll be too late.
    Last edited by Just_Me_D; 07-05-2015 at 08:17 PM.
    zerog46 and kd7irm like this.
    07-05-2015 11:08 AM
  21. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    I mean no disrespect to you Sean. I like and enjoy reading your posts. But, this actually a terrible analogy to make.

    I say this because the Mexican has the freedom to make a 'choice' as to wheter or not he/she will work for that $10 an hour.

    He/she can say 'yes' and get to mwing or they can say 'no' and are free to pursue other interests.

    Slaves have/had no such freedom. The work when and how they are old. Or there are consequences. Harsh ones.

    My view on this is really simple. The flag has no power over me. It should have no power over any individual who chooses not to give power to it.

    But, if you ask me whether or not it should be flown from the State's main building, which is supposed to represent ALL the citizens of that state.

    Then I would wholeheartedly say no.

    The Swastika is a symbol that had been is use for 5000 years before the Nazi party made it their symbol. It's just a symbol.

    And yet you don't see a Swaztika hanging from any State buildings.
    Every black person back then was not a slave, especially those living north of the Mason-Dixon Line. Alex Haley's version of events was not universal. If the Confederate flag has no power over you and shouldn't have power over anyone else, why then should it not be flown? Nowadays, we welcome immigrants from all over the world and tell them that it's okay to bring their culture with them, yet, we're quick to remove elements of our own culture from our own homeland under the guise of tolerance, and the drummed up Confederate flag controversy is another casualty of it. As for the Swastika, it is not an 'American' symbol like the Confederate flag.
    07-05-2015 11:26 AM
  22. Soeasy's Avatar
    Compared to Biblical slavery, and even slavery that's still in effect, American slavery was a cake walk.
    How do you know that? How could you possibly know that to be factually true?

    Just curious.
    07-05-2015 11:53 AM
  23. Ledsteplin's Avatar
    Has anyone brought up the fact that this is NOT the Confederate flag? It's a battle flag, which I think started in Tennessee. It's not even the official flag flown by the CSA.
    Did you read the OP's Title? It may have started in Virginia.
    07-05-2015 12:02 PM
  24. Soeasy's Avatar
    If the Confederate flag has no power over you and shouldn't have power over anyone else, why then should it not be flown?
    You're misconstruing the context of my post.

    I never said it should be flown ANYWHERE. I said it shouldn't be flown on State Capital Buildings that are supposed to represent ALL of it's constituency.

    That Capital building is funded by the tax payers of that state.

    Example:

    Let's say all the African Americans in SC decided that they did NOT want their tax dollars used to provide funding for maintenance, staff and upkeep of the State Capital Building as long as that flag were flown there. Should they have the right to say where there tax dollars go?

    i'm here in NYC. I honestly don't care about the flag itself.

    I'm more engrossed in the theory of the principle behind it.

    And you're correct, we do welcome everyone. During the World Cup, you can't walk into a bar in the city that's not playing the games and everyone is wearing the colors and flags of their countries.

    But those flags aren't flown at City Hall here, nor at the State Capital Building in Albany.

    You're throwing everything in to the pot and trying to make an argumens without looking at the individual parts of what you're asserting.

    Just my two cents.

    Happy Sunday to you.
    Last edited by Soeasy; 07-05-2015 at 12:07 PM. Reason: typos
    07-05-2015 12:05 PM
  25. Ledsteplin's Avatar
    How do you know that? How could you possibly know that to be factually true?

    Just curious.
    Most slave owners treated their slaves well. What you saw in "Roots" was the exception. Most were treated as family. So, yeah, 'D is right about that.
    07-05-2015 12:08 PM
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