The Jordanian pilot

Just_Me_D

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How on earth do you consider our military involvement in the middle east in the last twenty-five years to be weak?

Did you even read what I typed? Did you not understand the context in which I replied? Still, since you mentioned the last 25 years, did our involvement, as you've stated, prevent the attacks on the USS Cole? Did our involvement prevent the attacks that took place on 9/11/2001? Did our involvement prevent the Benghazi attacks? Is our involvement preventing ISIS from carrying out ruthless murders while videotaping them for the world to see?
 

anon(631531)

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How on earth do you consider our military involvement in the middle east in the last twenty-five years to be weak?


For me, i'm only going back twenty-five months. We had ample opportunities to bomb ISIS when they were using the corridor between Iraq and Syria. Did we do it, no. Why? Because our President didn't want to offend his Muslim brothers. That's right, i said it. He calls the killing of those Jews in Paris, as some criminal activity at a Parisian Deli. He, and all his a**kissers will snub the Israeli head of state, but kiss up to every Arab head of state that comes his way. Does anyone get the picture here? Think people, think about how he was raised. He is just a "show" Christian. In his heart, HE IS A MUSLIM!!! :sarcastic:
 

BobLobIaw

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Did you even read what I typed? Did you not understand the context in which I replied? Still, since you mentioned the last 25 years, did our involvement, as you've stated, prevent the attacks on the USS Cole? Did our involvement prevent the attacks that took place on 9/11/2001? Did our involvement prevent the Benghazi attacks? Is our involvement preventing ISIS from carrying out ruthless murders while videotaping them for the world to see?

I read what you wrote very carefully. I would never consider terrorists to be bullies--they are cowards. I also would never consider the U.S. involvement in the middle east to be a demonstration of U.S weakess. The lack of efficacy of the U.S. military intervention in the area is well-documented, yet your solution is just to amp it up further? Well, good luck with that. You seem to be talking tough but I don't see any specific actions you are advocating. If you have any ideas I'm happy to listen but "do whatever it takes" is just a general notion that has no relevance here without specific actions.
 

Just_Me_D

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I read what you wrote very carefully.
Okay
I would never consider terrorists to be bullies--they are cowards.
We are in agreement.
I also would never consider the U.S. involvement in the middle east to be a demonstration of U.S weakess.
It was YOU who brought up our involvement over the last 25 years where as my earlier replies focused on what I see as a lack of commitment to take our enemies seriously. Having said that, when I was in Beirut as part of the Multinational peacekeeping force in almost all of 1983, I witnessed firsthand the threats and the follow-up acts to those threats. I was there when terrorist blew up the embassy - (I was not at the embassy, of course), and I was there before and after the bombing of the barracks I used to sleep in. They were serious then and are even more so now.
The lack of efficacy of the U.S. military intervention in the area is well-documented, yet your solution is just to amp it up further?
. I'll say this again. I want our elected leader to stop effin around and get serious about dealing with our enemies. In laymans term, do whatever it takes to crush those who are actively committed to destroying us and our way of life. Is that clear enough?
Well, good luck with that.
You seem to be talking tough but I don't see any specific actions you are advocating.
Specific actions require specific enemy intel of which I do not possess. Do you?
If you have any ideas I'm happy to listen but "do whatever it takes" is just a general notion that has no relevance here without specific actions.
Bullcrap! did you use our military action over the past 25 years in general terms? Anyway, I've enjoyed reading your comment and I appreciate alternate viewpoints. Take care and have a great day.
 

BobLobIaw

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I'll say this again. I want our elected leader to stop effin around and get serious about dealing with our enemies. In laymans term, do whatever it takes to crush those who are actively committed to destroying us and our way of life. Is that clear enough?

I think this statement summarizes why we disagree. It's not just as simple as making a commitment to crush terrorists. The very real question is how to do it in the context of a very challenging geographic area of incubation. I appreciate your dedication to the cause, but I think the world has a long ways to go in developing effective counterterrorism measures in the middle east. Thanks for the discussion!
 

Just_Me_D

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I think this statement summarizes why we disagree. It's not just as simple as making a commitment to crush terrorists. The very real question is how to do it in the context of a very challenging geographic area of incubation. I appreciate your dedication to the cause, but I think the world has a long ways to go in developing effective counterterrorism measures in the middle east. Thanks for the discussion!

Don't get me wrong, Bob. I do understand that a good deal of planning, along with excellent intel is critical in going on the offensive against our enemies. Yet, it also takes a commitment to win, and that is where we fail. A good deal of people will always bring up the dangers of putting boots on the ground, and carry the notion that we can do everything that's necessary from the air, including drone strikes. If we were fighting on a battlefield against an enemy that is clearly defined and visible then I would agree, but that is not what we're up against. Too many people want to be in the position of authority, but when the time comes to make the toughest decisions (the ones that can cost lives), many of those people hide behind the facade of "further negotiations", "making sure we've exhausted all other means", and "we need to be sure we're doing the right thing". All are true, but I'm talking about when it's abundantly clear that we should act and we continue to use the aforementioned quoted responses as a means to keep from making the decision to act. As for effective counterterrorism measures, they exist now, but today's generation don't have the stomach for it.
 

palandri

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To be honest, I am sick and tired of the whole middle east, including the countries that we consider allies. I don't like what Israel or Saudi Arabia do, plus all of this turmoil is based on religion which really makes it stupid.

What are our vital interest in the middles east? Its not oil anymore. Is it pistachios? Figs? I just don't see any vital interest in the middle east. I think we should just abandon the whole middle east until they advanced into the 21st century. No more Kings, canings, whippings, chopping off hands and heads, stoning...etc...
 

kilofoxtrot

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I am all for the fight as long it is, of course, successful along with an exit strategy that gets our men and women home for good. Our all volunteer military is not built for a protracted war which is what this middle east conflict is... the longest in our nation's history.

The problem with the "wipe'm all out" strategy without "the locals" doing most of the heavy lifting, is that creates a void, that some terrorist organization is more than willing to fill as soon as we, the ones doing the heavy lifting, leave. Then its back to square one again. The rise of ISIS is proof of that.

It is a very complex problem for any president to handle. Republican or Democrat.
 

palandri

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I am all for the fight as long it is, of course, successful along with an exit strategy that gets our men and women home for good. Our all volunteer military is not built for a protracted war which is what this middle east conflict is... the longest in our nation's history.....

It's real easy to say, "I am all for the fight", until you tour the Veterans Hospital in your area. I had work last year at the Veterans Hospital in Chicago and it made me sick to see every single building jammed with disabled veterans, some were so young it was sickening. Missing arms, legs, disfigured bodies.
 

anon(631531)

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It's real easy to say, "I am all for the fight", until you tour the Veterans Hospital in your area. I had work last year at the Veterans Hospital in Chicago and it made me sick to see every single building jammed with disabled veterans, some were so young it was sickening. Missing arms, legs, disfigured bodies.


The price of freedom is not free. You should see what war looks like, while it's happening. For every young man disfigured by these Islamist terrorists, one hundred of theirs should end up the same way.:concern:
 

Les74

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To be honest, I am sick and tired of the whole middle east, including the countries that we consider allies. I don't like what Israel or Saudi Arabia do, plus all of this turmoil is based on religion which really makes it stupid.

What are our vital interest in the middles east? Its not oil anymore. Is it pistachios? Figs? I just don't see any vital interest in the middle east. I think we should just abandon the whole middle east until they advanced into the 21st century. No more Kings, canings, whippings, chopping off hands and heads, stoning...etc...

You have a better chance of seeing God before any of that happens.



See what I did there?
 

palandri

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You have a better chance of seeing God before any of that happens.



See what I did there?

I hear ya.

It's such a mess in the middle east and it's all about religion. I was wondering why they burnt the pilot to death, it just seemed so insane, then I read an article that said we're using hellfire missiles over there which are designed to incinerate people to death. I don't know if that's true, but it seems to make sense now. That's why I think total abandonment is the only logical action.
 

anon(631531)

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I hear ya.

It's such a mess in the middle east and it's all about religion. I was wondering why they burnt the pilot to death, it just seemed so insane, then I read an article that said we're using hellfire missiles over there which are designed to incinerate people to death. I don't know if that's true, but it seems to make sense now. That's why I think total abandonment is the only logical action.


What about nukes?:p
 

pappy53

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It's real easy to say, "I am all for the fight", until you tour the Veterans Hospital in your area. I had work last year at the Veterans Hospital in Chicago and it made me sick to see every single building jammed with disabled veterans, some were so young it was sickening. Missing arms, legs, disfigured bodies.

Whatcha gonna do when you see the hospitals in the U.S. filling up with badly injured men, women, and children, all because we didn't wipe the planet of those animals when we had the chance? They will come here, count on it. Rather have boots on the ground here or there? We need to cut off the head of the fish now.
 

palandri

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Whatcha gonna do when you see the hospitals in the U.S. filling up with badly injured men, women, and children, all because we didn't wipe the planet of those animals when we had the chance? They will come here, count on it. Rather have boots on the ground here or there? We need to cut off the head of the fish now.

If you think those nuts are going to cross the ocean and attempt to takeover U.S. territory and try to force their religion down out throats, you are just as delusional as they are.

Have you seen their military training? They learn tumbling and then they punch each other to toughen themselves. Are you impressed? If they ever run into a diversion and a double flank, they're all gone.
 

Ledsteplin

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Who cares if the Iraqis or whoever fight for themselves? It's no longer about them. It's about us. They will be in our backyards very soon if we don't nip it in the bud. But it won't happen under the non leadership of our current President.


Sent from my ancient but trustworthy iPhone 5
 

pappy53

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If you think those nuts are going to cross the ocean and attempt to takeover U.S. territory and try to force their religion down out throats, you are just as delusional as they are.

Have you seen their military training? They learn tumbling and then they punch each other to toughen themselves. Are you impressed? If they ever run into a diversion and a double flank, they're all gone.

You keep on believing that. You are the delusional one. /smh
 

anon(4698833)

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The problem will always be, and has always been the fact that when one side hides amongst civilians, brain washes the innocent to build their forces larger, and then when attacked, cowers back into the general populace of an area...there's no way of tactically eradicating them at all without innocent casualties.

It's a cancer. And you can't attack cancer 9 times out of 10 without destroying the host or parts of the host. Innocent casualty of the fight unfortunately.

The difference though is that the cancer patient chooses the method of eradicating the cancer with knowledge of what is coming. The way terrorist groups like ISIS work, you simply cannot inform the innocents that will be effected because they A.) Many won't fight for themselves out of fear, and B.) Because they won't fight, they tend to take a passive attitude in terms of these things, being vocally opposed to such actions, but only in the sense that they themselves would "never do such a thing".

This presents a serious and almost insurmountable problem...people who would be the most useful AGAINST ISIS are either too afraid to combat them in any way and/or hold an attitude about the situation that is simply useless in regards to putting together a legitimate opposition. They simply want to stay out of it in hopes ISIS will leave their family alone so they can just maintain what life they have for themselves.

And I honestly cannot blame them...what other way COULD they think in this environment? With no real internal leadership, no real "patriotism" (for lack of better term), and a life full of violence and fear from all directions...they are shell shocked and probably just thankful for a bit of peace between storms. It takes A LOT to stand up to such opposition...takes even more for broken people to do it. It'd take a damn god sent miracle to get a group of broken people who watch ISIS just run roughshod over their whole existence day in and day out, who show violent confidence to take on the "world" by killing hostages from all over the world, and come to these people with offers of survival if they either stay quiet or join forces...it's just an impossible situation.

And because of this...I personally feel that there is no choice but to resort to attacks on ISIS that risk innocent lives. There's really no other way to do it, and there won't EVER be any other way because of the way these terrorists intertwine themselves without groups of innocent people. They do it tactically...and it's a genius move because it ensures their survival for the immediate future.

What other choice will there EVER be? Our mighty military responds to threats and actions with the equivalent of a BB gun in terms of what it is capable of...yet this target presents one of the most critical and dangerous opponents our country has ever seen. Forget a Pearl Harbor attack, where the Japanese played by certain rules and targeted military units...hell, forget 9/11, where the terrorists chose a large, public, "shock value" target...no, we're going to face sleeper cells EVERY WHERE within our cities, causing wide spread destruction, panic and, their ultimate prize, terror amongst our people.

And then we faithfully and knowingly give away our own freedoms in the name of "safety" and "security". We watch as people run in and out of the white house like a revolving door, taking a punch at the constitution and then running away with their earned riches never to be seen again. And there's a f*cking LINE of these people waiting to keep battering our freedom so long as there is a threat...an almost invisible threat that could be anywhere like an airborne plague...a threat that sits back and waits until tactics lead them to an event, and they eat away at our countries sanity, safety and ways of life.

So do I think innocent blood should be spilled in the name of eradicating terrorist groups? Hell no. I don't think a single innocent life should be lost in such a move...but you know what? It's going to happen...and maybe when it does happen, it'll put a charge in those people to actually HELP stop these terrorists because they don't want to get incinerated by another set of US birthed tactical missiles...maybe they'll start a civil uprising against terrorists that prevents us from needing to level these desert towns full of innocent men, women and children...MAYBE...JUST MAYBE...they'll start fighting back against the people who are putting them in the crosshairs in the first f*cking place.

That's just my thoughts on the subject though.
 

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