The Massacre in Paris

[the_tech_eater]

Are you assuming that the people you saw are capable of hurting people based on nothing but their clothing?


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No. But by their clothing I know they are part of a religion that says its honorable to kill anyone who isn't a Muslim. And a religion that says its perfectly ok to lie if it furthers their cause, making what Muslims say about their supposed religion of peace totally unreliable. Why do you feel a personal responsibility to defend Islam? I think it's hilarious that you've stood up for terrorists so much here on iMore. You are being unpatriotic.


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[Scatabrain]

I'm out. You people are condemning an entire religion based on a few who are violent. I'm sure you mean well but this is very dangerous thinking and leads to acting from fear which leads to worse. It's so dangerous that I do not want to debate it in a forum. It is too upsetting to see good people react out of fear. You don't even see the hypocrisy when it's pointed out to you. Take care.


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[the_tech_eater]

I'm out. You people are condemning an entire religion based on a few who are violent. I'm sure you mean well but this is very dangerous thinking and leads to acting from fear which leads to worse. It's so dangerous that I do not want to debate it in a forum. It is too upsetting to see good people react out of fear. You don't even see the hypocrisy when it's pointed out to you. Take care.


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I'm not acting out of fear. It's called reality. And I would be interested in knowing what this hypocrisy is you talk about? Anyways, same to you, have a good day!


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[the_tech_eater]

I recommend this book, and this is where I've gotten my information about Islam. This author was a professor at one of the top Islamic universities in the world before converting to Christianity and moving to the states. His family tried to kill him several times.

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[Just_Me_D]

We are NOT condemning an entire religion based on a "few" who are violent. We are, however, pointing out the fact that the alleged "few" are committing terrorist acts all over the world in the name of Islam, and a "majority" who are not or have not committed those acts are not speaking out against it. None of us have proof that the masses are complicit in the behavior of the alleged "few", however, neither do we have proof that they are not. You can sit there and pretend not to see all you want, but the acts of the alleged "few" have allowed for the expansion of the religion and all that goes with it all over the globe, and those who are not of that religion are being slaughtered. These are "facts". Those of us who are not being sheepish, er um, politically correct about it are often viewed as bigoted, mean-spirited, insensitive and intolerant. Yet, the cruelty of the Muslim terrorist attacks are watered down and sugar-coated out of fear, and you know it.

 

[anon(4698833)]

Just like hydrogen's list of attacks and he called them Muslims instead of just radicals- even better terrorists. The White House calls them terrorists Hydrogen why are you calling them Muslims. And Just'm why are you trying to affiliate them?

But they are Muslim. Why are you asking people to disassociate these people from what they are? It's like telling people not to call the Westboro Baptist Church people "Christians"...they certainly are Christians, regardless of their radical practices...and even if a person feels their actions are not "christian like", they still represent the religion heavily, they take action in the name of Christianity, and you think the best option is simply to pretend they are not a piece of the whole? This is simply ignoring the problem.

You are trying to distance the problem from the religion...but honestly, you can't do that. People should own up to the radicals within their religious choices, and work to stop them. This was one of the big problems I have that I referenced in the post you quoted above, where people are more inclined to remove themselves from the problem by saying they wouldn't independently do things like that, but refrain from really standing against it, they just simply distance themselves from it. Christians are guilty of this too...in fact, I'd imagine most religions have this kind of habit.

You said creating a list and associating faiths to them is "just not right"...but I think disassociating and trying to sweep these "wackos" under the rug is more damaging.

 

[Just_Me_D]

But they are Muslim. Why are you asking people to disassociate these people from what they are? It's like telling people not to call the Westboro Baptist Church people "Christians"...they certainly are Christians, regardless of their radical practices...and even if a person feels their actions are not "christian like", they still represent the religion heavily, they take action in the name of Christianity, and you think the best option is simply to pretend they are not a piece of the whole? This is simply ignoring the problem.

You are trying to distance the problem from the religion...but honestly, you can't do that. People should own up to the radicals within their religious choices, and work to stop them. This was one of the big problems I have that I referenced in the post you quoted above, where people are more inclined to remove themselves from the problem by saying they wouldn't independently do things like that, but refrain from really standing against it, they just simply distance themselves from it. Christians are guilty of this too...in fact, I'd imagine most religions have this kind of habit.

You said creating a list and associating faiths to them is "just not right"...but I think disassociating and trying to sweep these "wackos" under the rug is more damaging.

'Nuf said...

 

[Scatabrain]

Sean, because for me I would be offended if someone accused my religion and teachings of being at the root cause (lots of which are old and some of it harsh - not taken in same context in practice today - stoning etc.).

I can answer everyone else all at once - your somewhat hypocritical and / or blanket associations blaming a religion for terrorists:

Not all Muslims are bad, however...
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Your list should say terrorist instead of Muslim. We can make a nasty list and put Christian next to it. Some of it downright evil and some of it very recent - and all of it done in the name of Christianity. But I don't do that because that isn't fair to most Christians. Same applies for Muslims.

I was horrified yesterday when driving through Tallahassee Florida there were multiple Muslim women walking on the sidewalk in full garb. Come on, is this the thirteenth century? And their husbands were dressed regularly. Why isn't amnesty international whining about the wife abuse there? Now before anyone says that Amish do the same thing, there are two big differences: 1. The men dress like they came from the Middle Ages too. 2. They are extremely peaceful people, wouldn't hurt anyone, and generally would help anyone with anything. And their life isn't in danger if they want to leave, unlike Muslims.

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With all respect T.E. you are acting out of fear. You said it in your own words.

There are more here but I just don't have the energy. Have to get some work done.

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Forum question for replies:

How do you guys get the multiple replies into a single post? Do you go through on the web and grab each reply individually and edit them down or do you have some clever way that I am not aware of?

 

[the_tech_eater]

Sean, because for me I would be offended if someone accused my religion and teachings of being at the root cause (lots of which are old and some of it harsh - not taken in same context in practice today - stoning etc.).

I can answer everyone else all at once - your somewhat hypocritical and / or blanket associations blaming a religion for terrorists:



Your list should say terrorist instead of Muslim. We can make a nasty list and put Christian next to it. Some of it downright evil and some of it very recent - and all of it done in the name of Christianity. But I don't do that because that isn't fair to most Christians. Same applies for Muslims.



With all respect T.E. you are acting out of fear. You said it in your own words.

There are more here but I just don't have the energy. Have to get some work done.

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Forum question for replies:

How do you guys get the multiple replies into a single post? Do you go through on the web and grab each reply individually and edit them down or do you have some clever way that I am not aware of?

I said i was horrified that people living in the states would make their wives dress like they are from the thirteenth century. I never said I was horrified that there are Muslims close to home.

How can you say that the Koran isn't the root cause? If you look at pretty much every single Muslim country, they still follow the Koran to the T. They blame the women for being raped, often canning her in public, they cut thieve's hands off. They restrict and suppress women. You say the Koran isn't the root cause but the murders in Paris clearly were following it when they killed all those people. I would recommend that you read the book I posted. I'm not coming up with my view of Islam out of thin air. I'm getting it from a former professor at THE most prestigious Islamic university in the world, founded in 970. That's right, 970. He realized that to be true to his religion he had to practice jihad. Again, I'm not coming up with this stuff.

I can't fathom how you could be standing up for a religion that at the very least has been misinterpreted causing so much killing and suffering all through history and especially here in the last 20 years. Like Sean said, there are nut case Christians, but they are only offensive, not violent. But as the author of the book I pointed out says, and he knows more than any of us, it has not been misinterpreted.

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[hydrogen3]

Islam has no fundamental concept of Inalienable Rights as mentioned in the Declaration of Independence. Islam is a totalitarian ideology that rejects Democracy, personal freedom, and every other religion. Islamic law/Shariah Law is completely incompatible with Freedom, Democracy, and Liberty, or any other government where the people have an actual voice in government or the will of the people matters.

 

[the_tech_eater]

Islam has no fundamental concept of Inalienable Rights as mentioned in the Declaration of Independence. Islam is a totalitarian ideology that rejects Democracy, personal freedom, and every other religion. Islamic law/Shariah Law is completely incompatible with Freedom, Democracy, and Liberty, or any other government where the people have an actual voice in government or the will of the people matters.

I absolutely agree. My sister was an English teacher in a Muslim country that was under shariah law and she could attest that everything you said is true.


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[Just_Me_D]

question for replies:

How do you guys get the multiple replies into a single post? Do you go through on the web and grab each reply individually and edit them down or do you have some clever way that I am not aware of?

There's a multi-quote function on both the website and via the forums app. If you're on the website, select the quote icon w/the plus sign for each post you want to quote, except the last one. Select the regular quote icon. All of the previous quotes you selected will be combined. There is a similar function for the app.

 

[Just_Me_D]

....I can answer everyone else all at once - your somewhat hypocritical and / or blanket associations blaming a religion for terrorists:
...

No, naw, nope and heck no!....Muslim "terrorists" are not the same as Muslim "people". Having said that, the terrorist acts in France was done by "terrorists" who happen to be "Muslims". The "list" that Ledsteplin posted shows terrorism acts done by "terrorists" who happen to be "Muslims". Having said that, to the best of my knowledge, there is no separate Holy book for Muslims who commit terrorist acts in the name of Islam and those who do not, and if you think that those who commit the acts of terrorism are not following what is written or what has been preached as a holy duty, you're fooling yourself.

 

[anon(4698833)]

Sean, because for me I would be offended if someone accused my religion and teachings of being at the root cause (lots of which are old and some of it harsh - not taken in same context in practice today - stoning etc.).

I fail to see how that answer is relevant to my post at all, or how it answers to my inquiry...I never mentioned root causes, I only addressed your comment about removing radicals from the whole, as if they don't exist within the group.

 

[franknasty]

Where have I attacked anyone? Read Post #17. President Obama has pointedly refused to use the phrase "radical Islam." There bending over backwards not to use the "radical Islam" label. Call it what it is a "radical fraction of the Islamic religion".

Why would I "associate with, unite with, combine with, join (up) with," Radical Islamic terrorist."

You called me a twit.

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[Scatabrain]

I said i was horrified that people living in the states would make their wives dress like they are from the thirteenth century. I never said I was horrified that there are Muslims close to home.

How can you say that the Koran isn't the root cause? If you look at pretty much every single Muslim country, they still follow the Koran to the T. They blame the women for being raped, often canning her in public, they cut thieve's hands off. They restrict and suppress women. You say the Koran isn't the root cause but the murders in Paris clearly were following it when they killed all those people. I would recommend that you read the book I posted. I'm not coming up with my view of Islam out of thin air. I'm getting it from a former professor at THE most prestigious Islamic university in the world, founded in 970. That's right, 970. He realized that to be true to his religion he had to practice jihad. Again, I'm not coming up with this stuff.

I can't fathom how you could be standing up for a religion that at the very least has been misinterpreted causing so much killing and suffering all through history and especially here in the last 20 years. Like Sean said, there are nut case Christians, but they are only offensive, not violent. But as the author of the book I pointed out says, and he knows more than any of us, it has not been misinterpreted.

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I am standing up for any religion. I already made analogies to other faiths and some of the outdated teachings that you discount or ignore so not going to repeat myself.

You're assuming that the clothing is a problem. Jews have similar rules. Do I understand it? No. But I am all for their right and don't judge things like that.

Terrorists are the problem period. I would be equally upset with them if they used JC as an excuse. Their evil is their failing. Not the faith the way all other Muslims practice.

That's the difference.

We are all aware of what acting against a whole culture out of fear and anger leads to. Don't let fear lead to a big mistake on our part.

Hydro thats why the WH chooses its language to focus on terrorism. Can you imagine how bad it would sound to so many Muslim's throughout the world if the WH said or implied in any way that it was their faith was helping terrorists? As a matter of fact if that did happen, and there was anger from other places in the world, don't you just bet that Faux News would be all over that saying how awful that was and yet another bad decision from the WH etc. etc.






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[the_tech_eater]

I am standing up for any religion. I already made analogies to other faiths and some of the outdated teachings that you discount or ignore so not going to repeat myself.

You're assuming that the clothing is a problem. Jews have similar rules. Do I understand it? No. But I am all for their right and don't judge things like that.

Terrorists are the problem period. I would be equally upset with them if they used JC as an excuse. Their evil is their failing. Not the faith the way all other Muslims practice.

That's the difference.

We are all aware of what acting against a whole culture out of fear and anger leads to. Don't let fear lead to a big mistake on our part.

Hydro thats why the WH chooses its language to focus on terrorism. Can you imagine how bad it would sound to so many Muslim's throughout the world if the WH said or implied in any way that it was their faith was helping terrorists? As a matter of fact if that did happen, and there was anger from other places in the world, don't you just bet that Faux News would be all over that saying how awful that was and yet another bad decision from the WH etc. etc.






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Again, read the book. I don't think you understand Islam or the Koran. I certainly don't understand everything there is to understand about either, but I know enough. Terrorism is definitely the problem, but what breeds it? What makes them think it's okay? What makes them think they'll get all those women in "heaven"?


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[Scatabrain]

Again, read the book. I don't think you understand Islam or the Koran. I certainly don't understand everything there is to understand about either, but I know enough. Terrorism is definitely the problem, but what breeds it? What makes them think it's okay? What makes them think they'll get all those women in "heaven"?


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I am more interested asking - Why do only islamic terrorists interpret the text that way?

It's pretty obvious. There are terrorist leaders (men not any kind of scripture) teaching it to them. Like I have said, plenty have used the Bible as excuse to do terrible things. This is no different.




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[the_tech_eater]

I am more interested asking - Why do only islamic terrorists interpret the text that way?

It's pretty obvious. There are terrorist leaders (men not any kind of scripture) teaching it to them. Like I have said, plenty have used the Bible as excuse to do terrible things. This is no different.




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Please read what a former teacher of Islamic history has to say on the matter. I trust him more than a liberal on an Internet forum.


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[Les74]

Like Sean said, there are nut case Christians, but they are only offensive, not violent.

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Come on, man. Did you really just say this? How many abortion clinics have been bombed? How many abortion clinic doctors and nurses have been murdered? I don't have statistics, but can pretty much guarantee that most....probably all were done by Christians. I don't agree with giving all Muslims a pass, but Christians absolutely are a violent group as well.


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