1. hydrogen3's Avatar
    Why won't the White House say "radical Islam" when describing terror threats?

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/12/politi...a-kerry-paris/
    Last edited by hydrogen3; 01-13-2015 at 09:54 AM.
    01-13-2015 09:39 AM
  2. franknasty's Avatar
    Faux news lies.

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    01-13-2015 06:58 PM
  3. franknasty's Avatar
    Why won't the White House say "radical Islam" when describing terror threats?

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/12/politi...a-kerry-paris/
    Why are you still posting.

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    01-13-2015 07:09 PM
  4. Scatabrain's Avatar
    Disgusting acts committed by radicals. The real question boils down to this though...in our world of picking and choosing which parts of a religion you deem worthy of representing, what do true fundamentalists represent?

    It would seem in our modern society, it's easy to look at Islam and stereotype because amongst the violent religious sects, Islam is right in your face consistently, and it also brings with it a very vaguely understood set of practices to the western world.

    A good example of radical Christian fundamentalists would be Westboro Baptist Church. They tend to be less violent, and more offensive...but the response is absolutely defined...they are considered outcasts, radicals and nut jobs. I like to think that the same can be said about the sects of the Islamic faith, and that people view them similarly...but over the years, I have seen some contrary attitudes from people who I would normally view as pretty "level headed" in terms of morality to your fellow man, regardless of religious belief. Instead of showing disdain towards such actions, they simply isolate themselves from such and say they would never do that...indicating to me that they don't necessarily see it as something "wrong", but as something they wouldn't or couldn't do independently.

    But at the end of the day...there are radical groups in every religion. Even Buddhists, long considered to be the most peaceful of religious lifestyles, have their groups...

    A Coordinated Extremist Buddhist Network Is Sowing Hatred Across Asia

    Prejudice is a nasty thing...unfortunately there's plenty of fuel to perpetuate the action.
    Probably your best post ever.


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    01-13-2015 10:20 PM
  5. Scatabrain's Avatar
    I agree. Having said that, do you, as a Muslim, view what happened in France as a bad thing, and if so, would your view be received positively by those who follow the Koran to the letter?
    Why would you expect anyone to care what a radical thinks of them? Not a fair question at all. It implies responsibility by the normal person for the radical. Substitute your religion (if you have one not presuming here) and ask yourself the same question. It won't feel right.

    Just like hydrogen's list of attacks and he called them Muslims instead of just radicals- even better terrorists. The White House calls them terrorists Hydrogen why are you calling them Muslims. And Just'm why are you trying to affiliate them?

    All religions have wackos throughout history. We don't need to create a list and associate the faith's to them. It's just not right.


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    01-14-2015 08:48 AM
  6. hydrogen3's Avatar
    Why would you expect anyone to care what a radical thinks of them? Not a fair question at all. It implies responsibility by the normal person for the radical. Substitute your religion (if you have one not presuming here) and ask yourself the same question. It won't feel right.

    Just like hydrogen's list of attacks and he called them Muslims instead of just radicals- even better terrorists. The White House calls them terrorists Hydrogen why are you calling them Muslims. And Just'm why are you trying to affiliate them?

    All religions have wackos throughout history. We don't need to create a list and associate the faith's to them. It's just not right.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Where have I attacked anyone? Read Post #17. President Obama has pointedly refused to use the phrase "radical Islam." There bending over backwards not to use the "radical Islam" label. Call it what it is a "radical fraction of the Islamic religion".

    Why would I "associate with, unite with, combine with, join (up) with," Radical Islamic terrorist."
    01-14-2015 08:59 AM
  7. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Why would you expect anyone to care what a radical thinks of them?
    To be frank, it's none of "your" business.
    Not a fair question at all.
    The question was neither fair or unfair because I didn't have any hidden agenda behind asking it.
    It implies responsibility by the normal person for the radical. Substitute your religion (if you have one not presuming here) and ask yourself the same question. It won't feel right.
    Bullcrap! It is not a problem for me to say that deliberately killing people who had no intent of harming anyone is wrong. Period. Furthermore, I don't care what anyone else thinks.

    Just like hydrogen's list of attacks and he called them Muslims instead of just radicals
    Oh, I see. You're one of the people who are afraid of honesty. Were those "radicals" of the Muslim faith? Did those "radicals" commit an act of terrorism?
    even better terrorists. The White House calls them terrorists Hydrogen why are you calling them Muslims.
    I know I don't have to speak for Hydrogen, but I assume he is calling them Muslims because that is what they are.
    And Just'm why are you trying to affiliate them?
    I am trying to do no such thing. Re-read my reply to the OP, but this time, read it as-is and not in the manner you're trying to spin it.

    All religions have wackos throughout history. We don't need to create a list and associate the faith's to them. It's just not right.


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    By saying that all religions have wackos, aren't YOU implying that the "radicals" were religious and thus giving credence to them being Muslim terrorists? Let me answer that for you ..... Yep!
    Last edited by JustMe'D; 01-14-2015 at 10:42 AM.
    hydrogen3 likes this.
    01-14-2015 09:31 AM
  8. Ledsteplin's Avatar
    This commentary says it best. And it's the truth! There's just too many trying to whitewash Islam. I see Islam as evil. If you're Muslim and don't understand why, maybe you should open your eyes!
    https://www.theobjectivestandard.com...washing-islam/


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    Just_Me_D and the_tech_eater like this.
    01-14-2015 09:37 AM
  9. the_tech_eater's Avatar
    I was horrified yesterday when driving through Tallahassee Florida there were multiple Muslim women walking on the sidewalk in full garb. Come on, is this the thirteenth century? And their husbands were dressed regularly. Why isn't amnesty international whining about the wife abuse there? Now before anyone says that Amish do the same thing, there are two big differences: 1. The men dress like they came from the Middle Ages too. 2. They are extremely peaceful people, wouldn't hurt anyone, and generally would help anyone with anything. And their life isn't in danger if they want to leave, unlike Muslims.


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    grunt0300 likes this.
    01-14-2015 09:47 AM
  10. Scatabrain's Avatar
    I was horrified yesterday when driving through Tallahassee Florida there were multiple Muslim women walking on the sidewalk in full garb. Come on, is this the thirteenth century? And their husbands were dressed regularly. Why isn't amnesty international whining about the wife abuse there? Now before anyone says that Amish do the same thing, there are two big differences: 1. The men dress like they came from the Middle Ages too. 2. They are extremely peaceful people, wouldn't hurt anyone, and generally would help anyone with anything. And their life isn't in danger if they want to leave, unlike Muslims.


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    Are you assuming that the people you saw are capable of hurting people based on nothing but their clothing?


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    01-14-2015 11:06 AM
  11. the_tech_eater's Avatar
    Are you assuming that the people you saw are capable of hurting people based on nothing but their clothing?


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    No. But by their clothing I know they are part of a religion that says its honorable to kill anyone who isn't a Muslim. And a religion that says its perfectly ok to lie if it furthers their cause, making what Muslims say about their supposed religion of peace totally unreliable. Why do you feel a personal responsibility to defend Islam? I think it's hilarious that you've stood up for terrorists so much here on iMore. You are being unpatriotic.


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    hydrogen3 and grunt0300 like this.
    01-14-2015 11:08 AM
  12. Scatabrain's Avatar
    I'm out. You people are condemning an entire religion based on a few who are violent. I'm sure you mean well but this is very dangerous thinking and leads to acting from fear which leads to worse. It's so dangerous that I do not want to debate it in a forum. It is too upsetting to see good people react out of fear. You don't even see the hypocrisy when it's pointed out to you. Take care.


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    01-14-2015 11:16 AM
  13. the_tech_eater's Avatar
    I'm out. You people are condemning an entire religion based on a few who are violent. I'm sure you mean well but this is very dangerous thinking and leads to acting from fear which leads to worse. It's so dangerous that I do not want to debate it in a forum. It is too upsetting to see good people react out of fear. You don't even see the hypocrisy when it's pointed out to you. Take care.


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    I'm not acting out of fear. It's called reality. And I would be interested in knowing what this hypocrisy is you talk about? Anyways, same to you, have a good day!


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    grunt0300 likes this.
    01-14-2015 11:18 AM
  14. the_tech_eater's Avatar
    I recommend this book, and this is where I've gotten my information about Islam. This author was a professor at one of the top Islamic universities in the world before converting to Christianity and moving to the states. His family tried to kill him several times.


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    grunt0300 likes this.
    01-14-2015 11:24 AM
  15. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    We are NOT condemning an entire religion based on a "few" who are violent. We are, however, pointing out the fact that the alleged "few" are committing terrorist acts all over the world in the name of Islam, and a "majority" who are not or have not committed those acts are not speaking out against it. None of us have proof that the masses are complicit in the behavior of the alleged "few", however, neither do we have proof that they are not. You can sit there and pretend not to see all you want, but the acts of the alleged "few" have allowed for the expansion of the religion and all that goes with it all over the globe, and those who are not of that religion are being slaughtered. These are "facts". Those of us who are not being sheepish, er um, politically correct about it are often viewed as bigoted, mean-spirited, insensitive and intolerant. Yet, the cruelty of the Muslim terrorist attacks are watered down and sugar-coated out of fear, and you know it.
    grunt0300 and the_tech_eater like this.
    01-14-2015 11:31 AM
  16. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Just like hydrogen's list of attacks and he called them Muslims instead of just radicals- even better terrorists. The White House calls them terrorists Hydrogen why are you calling them Muslims. And Just'm why are you trying to affiliate them?
    But they are Muslim. Why are you asking people to disassociate these people from what they are? It's like telling people not to call the Westboro Baptist Church people "Christians"...they certainly are Christians, regardless of their radical practices...and even if a person feels their actions are not "christian like", they still represent the religion heavily, they take action in the name of Christianity, and you think the best option is simply to pretend they are not a piece of the whole? This is simply ignoring the problem.

    You are trying to distance the problem from the religion...but honestly, you can't do that. People should own up to the radicals within their religious choices, and work to stop them. This was one of the big problems I have that I referenced in the post you quoted above, where people are more inclined to remove themselves from the problem by saying they wouldn't independently do things like that, but refrain from really standing against it, they just simply distance themselves from it. Christians are guilty of this too...in fact, I'd imagine most religions have this kind of habit.

    You said creating a list and associating faiths to them is "just not right"...but I think disassociating and trying to sweep these "wackos" under the rug is more damaging.
    Just_Me_D and the_tech_eater like this.
    01-14-2015 12:34 PM
  17. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    But they are Muslim. Why are you asking people to disassociate these people from what they are? It's like telling people not to call the Westboro Baptist Church people "Christians"...they certainly are Christians, regardless of their radical practices...and even if a person feels their actions are not "christian like", they still represent the religion heavily, they take action in the name of Christianity, and you think the best option is simply to pretend they are not a piece of the whole? This is simply ignoring the problem.

    You are trying to distance the problem from the religion...but honestly, you can't do that. People should own up to the radicals within their religious choices, and work to stop them. This was one of the big problems I have that I referenced in the post you quoted above, where people are more inclined to remove themselves from the problem by saying they wouldn't independently do things like that, but refrain from really standing against it, they just simply distance themselves from it. Christians are guilty of this too...in fact, I'd imagine most religions have this kind of habit.

    You said creating a list and associating faiths to them is "just not right"...but I think disassociating and trying to sweep these "wackos" under the rug is more damaging.
    'Nuf said...
    01-14-2015 12:50 PM
  18. Scatabrain's Avatar
    Sean, because for me I would be offended if someone accused my religion and teachings of being at the root cause (lots of which are old and some of it harsh - not taken in same context in practice today - stoning etc.).

    I can answer everyone else all at once - your somewhat hypocritical and / or blanket associations blaming a religion for terrorists:

    Not all Muslims are bad, however...
    Attachment 75233
    Sent from my ancient but trustworthy iPhone 5.
    Your list should say terrorist instead of Muslim. We can make a nasty list and put Christian next to it. Some of it downright evil and some of it very recent - and all of it done in the name of Christianity. But I don't do that because that isn't fair to most Christians. Same applies for Muslims.

    I was horrified yesterday when driving through Tallahassee Florida there were multiple Muslim women walking on the sidewalk in full garb. Come on, is this the thirteenth century? And their husbands were dressed regularly. Why isn't amnesty international whining about the wife abuse there? Now before anyone says that Amish do the same thing, there are two big differences: 1. The men dress like they came from the Middle Ages too. 2. They are extremely peaceful people, wouldn't hurt anyone, and generally would help anyone with anything. And their life isn't in danger if they want to leave, unlike Muslims.

    Sent from my iPhone 6 using Crapatalk
    With all respect T.E. you are acting out of fear. You said it in your own words.

    There are more here but I just don't have the energy. Have to get some work done.

    --------

    Forum question for replies:

    How do you guys get the multiple replies into a single post? Do you go through on the web and grab each reply individually and edit them down or do you have some clever way that I am not aware of?
    mmcfly23 likes this.
    01-14-2015 01:26 PM
  19. the_tech_eater's Avatar
    Sean, because for me I would be offended if someone accused my religion and teachings of being at the root cause (lots of which are old and some of it harsh - not taken in same context in practice today - stoning etc.).

    I can answer everyone else all at once - your somewhat hypocritical and / or blanket associations blaming a religion for terrorists:



    Your list should say terrorist instead of Muslim. We can make a nasty list and put Christian next to it. Some of it downright evil and some of it very recent - and all of it done in the name of Christianity. But I don't do that because that isn't fair to most Christians. Same applies for Muslims.



    With all respect T.E. you are acting out of fear. You said it in your own words.

    There are more here but I just don't have the energy. Have to get some work done.

    --------

    Forum question for replies:

    How do you guys get the multiple replies into a single post? Do you go through on the web and grab each reply individually and edit them down or do you have some clever way that I am not aware of?
    I said i was horrified that people living in the states would make their wives dress like they are from the thirteenth century. I never said I was horrified that there are Muslims close to home.

    How can you say that the Koran isn't the root cause? If you look at pretty much every single Muslim country, they still follow the Koran to the T. They blame the women for being raped, often canning her in public, they cut thieve's hands off. They restrict and suppress women. You say the Koran isn't the root cause but the murders in Paris clearly were following it when they killed all those people. I would recommend that you read the book I posted. I'm not coming up with my view of Islam out of thin air. I'm getting it from a former professor at THE most prestigious Islamic university in the world, founded in 970. That's right, 970. He realized that to be true to his religion he had to practice jihad. Again, I'm not coming up with this stuff.

    I can't fathom how you could be standing up for a religion that at the very least has been misinterpreted causing so much killing and suffering all through history and especially here in the last 20 years. Like Sean said, there are nut case Christians, but they are only offensive, not violent. But as the author of the book I pointed out says, and he knows more than any of us, it has not been misinterpreted.

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    Last edited by the_tech_eater; 01-14-2015 at 01:48 PM.
    01-14-2015 01:34 PM
  20. hydrogen3's Avatar
    Islam has no fundamental concept of Inalienable Rights as mentioned in the Declaration of Independence. Islam is a totalitarian ideology that rejects Democracy, personal freedom, and every other religion. Islamic law/Shariah Law is completely incompatible with Freedom, Democracy, and Liberty, or any other government where the people have an actual voice in government or the will of the people matters.
    the_tech_eater likes this.
    01-14-2015 01:44 PM
  21. the_tech_eater's Avatar
    Islam has no fundamental concept of Inalienable Rights as mentioned in the Declaration of Independence. Islam is a totalitarian ideology that rejects Democracy, personal freedom, and every other religion. Islamic law/Shariah Law is completely incompatible with Freedom, Democracy, and Liberty, or any other government where the people have an actual voice in government or the will of the people matters.
    I absolutely agree. My sister was an English teacher in a Muslim country that was under shariah law and she could attest that everything you said is true.


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    01-14-2015 01:50 PM
  22. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    question for replies:

    How do you guys get the multiple replies into a single post? Do you go through on the web and grab each reply individually and edit them down or do you have some clever way that I am not aware of?
    There's a multi-quote function on both the website and via the forums app. If you're on the website, select the quote icon w/the plus sign for each post you want to quote, except the last one. Select the regular quote icon. All of the previous quotes you selected will be combined. There is a similar function for the app.
    Scatabrain and sanibel like this.
    01-14-2015 02:03 PM
  23. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    ....I can answer everyone else all at once - your somewhat hypocritical and / or blanket associations blaming a religion for terrorists:
    ...
    No, naw, nope and heck no!....Muslim "terrorists" are not the same as Muslim "people". Having said that, the terrorist acts in France was done by "terrorists" who happen to be "Muslims". The "list" that Ledsteplin posted shows terrorism acts done by "terrorists" who happen to be "Muslims". Having said that, to the best of my knowledge, there is no separate Holy book for Muslims who commit terrorist acts in the name of Islam and those who do not, and if you think that those who commit the acts of terrorism are not following what is written or what has been preached as a holy duty, you're fooling yourself.
    hydrogen3 and the_tech_eater like this.
    01-14-2015 02:21 PM
  24. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Sean, because for me I would be offended if someone accused my religion and teachings of being at the root cause (lots of which are old and some of it harsh - not taken in same context in practice today - stoning etc.).
    I fail to see how that answer is relevant to my post at all, or how it answers to my inquiry...I never mentioned root causes, I only addressed your comment about removing radicals from the whole, as if they don't exist within the group.
    01-14-2015 03:00 PM
  25. franknasty's Avatar
    Where have I attacked anyone? Read Post #17. President Obama has pointedly refused to use the phrase "radical Islam." There bending over backwards not to use the "radical Islam" label. Call it what it is a "radical fraction of the Islamic religion".

    Why would I "associate with, unite with, combine with, join (up) with," Radical Islamic terrorist."
    You called me a twit.

    Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk
    01-14-2015 06:35 PM
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