Thoughts on Senate CIA report

Scatabrain

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The Geneva Convention is a good thing and all that, but you can?t have only one side obeying the rules of war. When the Geneva Convention was signed it was a different time and a different kind of enemy.

Me personally I just don?t believe in war with rules, if you are going to go to war you have to go with the will to win and that means total war, unfortunately it is an ugly thing. This is why I am against war. This war was brought to us and if I read the media right the Extreme Islamist declared war on the US and I?m sure they are for total war.
I get so pissed when these Politicians form committees denouncing the United States during these times. Plus I have a Son in the Military who has been to Korea twice Iraq once and Afghanistan twice. I just can?t stand when Politicians send our boys and girls to hostile countries and then place such strict rules on them. On the other hand they want to give enemy combatants the same rights as US citizens. It makes me sick to my stomach when I think they are given better heath care then our returning veterans.

So very wrong. The convention outlines what we all agree is acceptable and what is not. You can't just throw away values because today's enemies are a new level of evil. What is wrong is wrong. Period. If anything its even more important to remember who we are.


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kilofoxtrot

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dailycaller.com/2013/07/03/levin-obama-sympathy-for-muslim-brotherhood-tied-to-his-community-organizer-roots

This president and commander in chief is killing quite a few muslim extremists ..... is that what you call sympathy?


HYDRO.... you can't have it both ways. Take off the tinfoil hat and join us in reality. K?
 

Scatabrain

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The Geneva Convention is a good thing and all that, but you can?t have only one side obeying the rules of war. When the Geneva Convention was signed it was a different time and a different kind of enemy.

Me personally I just don?t believe in war with rules, if you are going to go to war you have to go with the will to win and that means total war, unfortunately it is an ugly thing. This is why I am against war. This war was brought to us and if I read the media right the Extreme Islamist declared war on the US and I?m sure they are for total war.
I get so pissed when these Politicians form committees denouncing the United States during these times. Plus I have a Son in the Military who has been to Korea twice Iraq once and Afghanistan twice. I just can?t stand when Politicians send our boys and girls to hostile countries and then place such strict rules on them. On the other hand they want to give enemy combatants the same rights as US citizens. It makes me sick to my stomach when I think they are given better heath care then our returning veterans.

If you were in London being bombed or a Jewish family in Eastern Europe I think you might have a different opinion that today's evil is any worse then yesterday's.


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calebt

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If you were in London being bombed or a Jewish family in Eastern Europe I think you might have a different opinion that today's evil is any worse then yesterday's.


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I can’t tell you what I would really do under that kind of pressure and neither can you. People under in those type of circumstance change quickly. I can only tell you how I feel now and that is what I stated above.

I can tell you this though, I’m glad the men it charge back then did what they did or you may not be here today typing you opinions.
 

calebt

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So very wrong. The convention outlines what we all agree is acceptable and what is not. You can't just throw away values because today's enemies are a new level of evil. What is wrong is wrong. Period. If anything its even more important to remember who we are.


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I don’t remember the Islamist sitting down and signing that agreement.
 

Scatabrain

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I can?t tell you what I would really do under that kind of pressure and neither can you. People under in those type of circumstance change quickly. I can only tell you how I feel now and that is what I stated above.

I can tell you this though, I?m glad the men it charge back then did what they did or you may not be here today typing you opinions.

I can tell you what happened. It is history.


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Scatabrain

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Your premise is that today is worse so all rules are off. Its not worse and its always important to do things right.


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Ledsteplin

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If you were in London being bombed or a Jewish family in Eastern Europe I think you might have a different opinion that today's evil is any worse then yesterday's.


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The difference was that in WWll, we knew who the enemy was. We sought justice against mainly 2 countries. After 9/11, there were no countries to go after. And it's not like we had good Intel in that part of the world. Very little actually. Putting spies in Russia and Germany was a lot easier than the Middle East. Gathering Intel was difficult. Still is. The evil was no different. Just more difficult to root out. I don't have a problem whatsoever with how we used enhanced interrogation techniques on 3 terrorists. And I'm not alone.
Thomas Sewell said,
"If you knew that there was a hidden nuclear time bomb planted somewhere in New York City -- set to go off today -- and you had a captured terrorist who knew where and when, would you not do anything whatever to make him tell you where and when? Would you pause to look up the definition of "torture"? Would you even care what the definition of "torture" was, when the alternative was seeing millions of innocent people murdered?". His point is compelling. Sowell goes on to say,
"One of the most obscene acts of the Obama administration, when it first took office, was to launch a criminal investigation of CIA agents who had used harsh interrogation methods against captured terrorists in the wake of the devastating September 11, 2001 aerial attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
Right after those terrorist attacks, when there were desperate fears of what might be coming next, these CIA agents were trying to spare fellow Americans another attack that could take thousands more lives, or perhaps millions more. To turn on these agents, years later, after they did what they were urged to do, as a patriotic duty in a time of crisis, is both a betrayal of those who acted in the past and a disincentive to those in the future who are charged with safeguarding the nation.
Other nations, whose cooperation we need, in order to disrupt international terrorist networks, see how their involvement has now been revealed to the whole world -- including terrorists -- because supposedly responsible American officials, in the Congress of the United States, cannot keep their mouths shut. The public's "right to know" has often been invoked to justify publicizing confidential information. But is there any evidence that the American public was clamoring to learn state secrets, which every government has? I don't know where our nuclear weapons are located and I don't want to know, certainly not at the cost of letting our enemies know." We agree that torture is bad. But we disagree on the definition of torture. And that's not going to change.
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calebt

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Your premise is that today is worse so all rules are off. Its not worse and its always important to do things right.


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I would say yes, they are worse and I was not trying to compare. War is wrong anyway you put it, I just don’t believe in war with rules.

Let me say this, if we fought that war the way we fight wars today I don’t believe you would have the UK you have today or would there be many Jews left to even talk about history.
 

kilofoxtrot

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I have to admit I find war with a set of "rules" ironic. Rules are for games... war is not a game.

The more terrible war is.... the more you will want to avoid it.

Having said that... the United States can unleash hell... and still follow the guidelines set in the Geneva Convention. IMO.

F-35 loaded with a world of hurt.
10653612_10152850416113076_8554711304642487295_n.jpg
 
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A895

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I would say yes, they are worse and I was not trying to compare. War is wrong anyway you put it, I just don?t believe in war with rules.

Let me say this, if we fought that war the way we fight wars today I don?t believe you would have the UK you have today or would there be many Jews left to even talk about history.

What is so fundamentally different that makes wars now softer? War is war, full stop. Nothing has changed besides technology. There is no easy way to kill people, people die either way.

What you are arguing for is harsh torture, which is what the CIA was doing. You can interrogate and rough up people, but sticking stuff up peoples rectums? Near drownings? That goes top far. I can see if all they did was smack them around and they gave up the ghost, but the CIA, was doing some real crazy **** that is probably illegal.

It also came out that some of the people they suspected of terrorism were actually innocent, so now the CIA is guilty of harsh torture techniques used on innocent men. That is what you are arguing for.

We can argue definition of torture all day but there is no soft way to toruture someone and what the CIA has done is something they really need to be accountable for.
 

pappy53

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Well they are right it is imprecise but I don't think people know about the actual torture report to make an informed polling opinion.

The ones that released the report cannot make an informed decision, as exactly ZERO participants in the interrogations were interviewed, including the man that did the main interrogations.

Imprecise? And any polls that you quote are accurate?
 

A895

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The ones that released the report cannot make an informed decision, as exactly ZERO participants in the interrogations were interviewed, including the man that did the main interrogations.

Why would the congressmen and women interview people who were head of the programs? Why exactly? They were lying to Congress and the American people for years, they have said enough as is, and the evidence and facts speak for themselves. There is nothing he can possibly say that exonerates his actions.

Imprecise? And any polls that you quote are accurate?

All polls are inaccurate, you can't ask everybody.
 

pappy53

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Why would the congressmen and women interview people who were head of the programs? Why exactly? They were lying to Congress and the American people for years, they have said enough as is, and the evidence and facts speak for themselves. There is nothing he can possibly say that exonerates his actions.



All polls are inaccurate, you can't ask everybody.

What evidence and facts? The Feinstein report? Give me a break. That was a political move, and nothing else.

"They were lying to Congress and the American people for years". And how do you know this? Oh, that's right, the report said so. /s

No chance of an inaccurate report, huh? Especially being in the hands of Dems for 10 years.
 

A895

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What evidence and facts? The Feinstein report? Give me a break. That was a political move, and nothing else.

"They were lying to Congress and the American people for years". And how do you know this? Oh, that's right, the report said so. /s

So are we going to pretend the report isn't there or......? The report which is a summary of literally millions of papers is very comprehensive, I have read a few pages and it is illuminating.
 

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