1. Scatabrain's Avatar
    I disagree with you; the anger was taught way before America was even a country

    I bet you would be singing a different tune if it were your son in one of those video's about to be beheaded.
    I can use the same type of analogy: if your family member's rights to due process were overridden in the name of fighting terrorism, you'd be against it.


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    A895 likes this.
    12-13-2014 02:51 PM
  2. Scatabrain's Avatar
    Benjamin Franklin: Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.


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    kataran and A895 like this.
    12-13-2014 02:55 PM
  3. kataran's Avatar
    Do we really want humanity to fall back to the likes of the Salem Witch Trials or the Grand Inquisition?

    Torture for any reason should not be tolerated in our present state of Conscience evolution
    A895 likes this.
    12-13-2014 03:17 PM
  4. Ledsteplin's Avatar
    Do we really want humanity to fall back to the likes of the Salem Witch Trials or the Grand Inquisition?

    Torture for any reason should not be tolerated in our present state of Conscience evolution
    So where do you draw the line? What is torture and what is not?


    Sent from my ancient but trustworthy iPhone 5.
    12-13-2014 03:46 PM
  5. Scatabrain's Avatar
    So where do you draw the line? What is torture and what is not?


    Sent from my ancient but trustworthy iPhone 5.
    It is all torture.


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    12-13-2014 03:51 PM
  6. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.” –Thomas Jefferson
    12-13-2014 04:18 PM
  7. Scatabrain's Avatar
    If we are torturing, we are the tyrants.


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    A895 likes this.
    12-13-2014 04:19 PM
  8. Scatabrain's Avatar
    You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth". But I say to you, do not resist an evildoer. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. (Mt 5:3839, NRSV)


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    12-13-2014 04:31 PM
  9. Ledsteplin's Avatar
    It is all torture.


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    I suppose so. When I was young and my older cousin used to tickle the bottom of my foot, it felt like torture!


    Sent from my ancient but trustworthy iPhone 5.
    12-13-2014 04:36 PM
  10. Scatabrain's Avatar
    I suppose so. When I was young and my older cousin used to tickle the bottom of my foot, it felt like torture!


    Sent from my ancient but trustworthy iPhone 5.
    You get points for style but humor aside, damage from mental pressure of a captive, prisoner is real. As PTSD is for returning veterans.


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    12-13-2014 04:41 PM
  11. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    If we are torturing, we are the tyrants.


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    Tyrannical actions sometimes only respond to other tyrannical actions. It is a vicious circle...no doubt, but there really is no humane way to approach these kinds of situations to get the kind of information that has to be FORCED from someone. You can't simply resort to slapping them on the hands and hoping.
    BreakingKayfabe likes this.
    12-13-2014 04:50 PM
  12. Scatabrain's Avatar
    Sorry Sean but Jesus debunked eye for an eye. See above.
    Mahatma Gandhi fought tyranny through his ideals not through confrontation. The Berlin Wall came down because of influences such as the Beatles. The only way to stand against radicalism is through our ideals and by example. How can you argue with John Lennon, Gandhi, our founding fathers and Jesus?


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    12-13-2014 04:56 PM
  13. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Sorry Sean but Jesus debunked eye for an eye. See above.
    Mahatma Gandhi fought tyranny through his ideals not through confrontation. The Berlin Wall came down because of influences such as the Beatles. The only way to stand against radicalism is through our ideals and by example. How can you argue with John Lennon, Gandhi, our founding fathers and Jesus?
    Because all of them, sadly, failed our modern society in terms of results. You can put up a fight, and even make a change in a lot of people's lives, but human nature is human nature, and those who strive for destruction always find a way back into places of power that lead to these things. If we're going to go the religious route...you know exactly where this kind of negativity comes from, and it is all laid out in the good book. These things are inevitable.
    12-13-2014 05:02 PM
  14. Scatabrain's Avatar
    Because all of them, sadly, failed our modern society in terms of results. You can put up a fight, and even make a change in a lot of people's lives, but human nature is human nature, and those who strive for destruction always find a way back into places of power that lead to these things. If we're going to go the religious route...you know exactly where this kind of negativity comes from, and it is all laid out in the good book. These things are inevitable.
    Good results can only be long lasting if we do not lose our way. By torturing we have.


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    12-13-2014 05:06 PM
  15. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Good results can only be long lasting if we do not lose our way. By torturing we have.


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    Necessary evil.
    12-13-2014 05:07 PM
  16. Scatabrain's Avatar
    Necessary evil.
    At least thats honest. Don't agree at all though.


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    12-13-2014 05:18 PM
  17. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    At least thats honest. Don't agree at all though.


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    That's kind of the point of torture though...they don't expect you agree with it, they expect you to be shocked by it, even disgusted by it, because it makes you (and hopefully those who they use it against) fear it. The difference between this same type of torture 30 years ago and today is that now, society in general gets to watch it first hand if they choose to, read it first hand if they choose to, and stay on top of when/where/why it's happening if they choose to. Before our technological age, Americans weren't privy to this kind of thing, and were probably all the better for it to be honest (not to say it was any more/less justified while shielding the public from it, it was just viewed differently I suppose you could say).

    If you want my unadulterated opinion on it...I feel we get all this information about it so we understand fully what kind of tactics could and WILL be used on our own people in the future when many decide that liberties have been limited and removed enough, and another revolution begins from the inside. You can see sparks of it right now.
    12-13-2014 05:25 PM
  18. calebt's Avatar
    Sorry Sean but Jesus debunked eye for an eye. See above.
    Mahatma Gandhi fought tyranny through his ideals not through confrontation. The Berlin Wall came down because of influences such as the Beatles. The only way to stand against radicalism is through our ideals and by example. How can you argue with John Lennon, Gandhi, our founding fathers and Jesus?



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    No offence, but God help us all if the likes of you are running our country in the event of an invasion, not that an invasion would ever happen.

    Because all of them, sadly, failed our modern society in terms of results. You can put up a fight, and even make a change in a lot of people's lives, but human nature is human nature, and those who strive for destruction always find a way back into places of power that lead to these things. If we're going to go the religious route...you know exactly where this kind of negativity comes from, and it is all laid out in the good book. These things are inevitable.
    That is what will happen if nothing is done. Groups like ISIS will eventually gain some power and then it will be, be killed or kill.
    12-13-2014 05:26 PM
  19. Scatabrain's Avatar
    No offence, but God help us all if the likes of you are running our country in the event of an invasion, not that an invasion would ever happen.



    That is what will happen if nothing is done. Groups like ISIS will eventually gain some power and then it will be, be killed or kill.
    Kill or be killed. What other groups have that same motto?



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    12-13-2014 06:18 PM
  20. the_tech_eater's Avatar
    No offence, but God help us all if the likes of you are running our country in the event of an invasion, not that an invasion would ever happen.



    That is what will happen if nothing is done. Groups like ISIS will eventually gain some power and then it will be, be killed or kill.
    I agree. I'm a Christian, but I think it's hypocritical to pull up parts of the bible that benefit ones point of view, while ignoring others. If the bible is true, and Gods word, than all of the New Testament has to be taken seriously. Based on Scatabrains replies in other threads, they do not take the whole New Testament seriously.


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    hydrogen3 likes this.
    12-13-2014 06:19 PM
  21. sanibel's Avatar
    1. Either the US sides with the Geneva Conventions, or it doesn't.
    2. I find John McCain's opinion very interesting.
    Scatabrain and A895 like this.
    12-13-2014 06:21 PM
  22. Scatabrain's Avatar
    I agree. I'm a Christian, but I think it's hypocritical to pull up parts of the bible that benefit ones point of view, while ignoring others. If the bible is true, and Gods word, than all of the New Testament has to be taken seriously. Based on Scatabrains replies in other threads, they do not take the whole New Testament seriously.


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    Being for peace is all I want. I see nothing wrong with taking inspiration where it can be found. Jesus saying turn the other cheek is how we should act NOT eye for an eye as Old Testament said.

    And if I can marvel at the creation and care for my fellow man using science and therefore don't feel compelled to take 7 days literally, it does not make me a hypocrite. I may not be a good standing member of your church as your church would require but my views are very clear and do not contradict.






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    12-13-2014 06:30 PM
  23. calebt's Avatar
    Kill or be killed. What other groups have that same motto?





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    No, I said be killed or kill there is a difference and I'm not for torture, but I am for doing anything to stop a threat and the people we are talking about are a serious threat.
    Last edited by calebt; 12-13-2014 at 07:16 PM.
    12-13-2014 06:44 PM
  24. Scatabrain's Avatar
    Being for peace is all I want. I see nothing wrong with taking inspiration where it can be found. Jesus saying turn the other cheek is how we should act NOT eye for an eye as Old Testament said.

    And if I can marvel at the creation and care for my fellow man using science and therefore don't feel compelled to take 7 days literally, it does not make me a hypocrite. I may not be a good standing member of your church as your church would require but my views are very clear and do not contradict.


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    And please point me to where in the New Testament it says torture is okay.

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    12-13-2014 06:49 PM
  25. the_tech_eater's Avatar
    And please point me to where in the New Testament it says torture is okay.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Since when does our government adhere to the bible, let alone society. Are you kidding me? Point me to where the New Testament says abortion or homosexuality is ok. Our government and society don't give a rip what the bible says. And I thought you from the left are trying to free the government and our public education system from religion?
    I don't want to start a debate about those two hot topics. I'm just saying that the government and society don't care about what the bible says.

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    calebt likes this.
    12-13-2014 08:18 PM
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