1. Scatabrain's Avatar
    I dont remember the Islamist sitting down and signing that agreement.
    That has nothing to do with it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    12-16-2014 11:21 PM
  2. Scatabrain's Avatar
    I cant tell you what I would really do under that kind of pressure and neither can you. People under in those type of circumstance change quickly. I can only tell you how I feel now and that is what I stated above.

    I can tell you this though, Im glad the men it charge back then did what they did or you may not be here today typing you opinions.
    I can tell you what happened. It is history.


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    12-16-2014 11:22 PM
  3. Scatabrain's Avatar
    Your premise is that today is worse so all rules are off. Its not worse and its always important to do things right.


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    A895 likes this.
    12-16-2014 11:24 PM
  4. calebt's Avatar
    I can tell you what happened. It is history.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Well why don’t you go ahead and lay it all out for me, I’d love to hear your version of history.
    12-16-2014 11:28 PM
  5. Ledsteplin's Avatar
    If you were in London being bombed or a Jewish family in Eastern Europe I think you might have a different opinion that today's evil is any worse then yesterday's.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The difference was that in WWll, we knew who the enemy was. We sought justice against mainly 2 countries. After 9/11, there were no countries to go after. And it's not like we had good Intel in that part of the world. Very little actually. Putting spies in Russia and Germany was a lot easier than the Middle East. Gathering Intel was difficult. Still is. The evil was no different. Just more difficult to root out. I don't have a problem whatsoever with how we used enhanced interrogation techniques on 3 terrorists. And I'm not alone.
    Thomas Sewell said,
    "If you knew that there was a hidden nuclear time bomb planted somewhere in New York City -- set to go off today -- and you had a captured terrorist who knew where and when, would you not do anything whatever to make him tell you where and when? Would you pause to look up the definition of "torture"? Would you even care what the definition of "torture" was, when the alternative was seeing millions of innocent people murdered?". His point is compelling. Sowell goes on to say,
    "One of the most obscene acts of the Obama administration, when it first took office, was to launch a criminal investigation of CIA agents who had used harsh interrogation methods against captured terrorists in the wake of the devastating September 11, 2001 aerial attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
    Right after those terrorist attacks, when there were desperate fears of what might be coming next, these CIA agents were trying to spare fellow Americans another attack that could take thousands more lives, or perhaps millions more. To turn on these agents, years later, after they did what they were urged to do, as a patriotic duty in a time of crisis, is both a betrayal of those who acted in the past and a disincentive to those in the future who are charged with safeguarding the nation.
    Other nations, whose cooperation we need, in order to disrupt international terrorist networks, see how their involvement has now been revealed to the whole world -- including terrorists -- because supposedly responsible American officials, in the Congress of the United States, cannot keep their mouths shut. The public's "right to know" has often been invoked to justify publicizing confidential information. But is there any evidence that the American public was clamoring to learn state secrets, which every government has? I don't know where our nuclear weapons are located and I don't want to know, certainly not at the cost of letting our enemies know." We agree that torture is bad. But we disagree on the definition of torture. And that's not going to change.
    Thoughts on Senate CIA report-imageuploadedbytapatalk1418794542.678924.jpg


    Sent from my ancient but trustworthy iPhone 5.
    12-17-2014 12:35 AM
  6. calebt's Avatar
    Your premise is that today is worse so all rules are off. Its not worse and its always important to do things right.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I would say yes, they are worse and I was not trying to compare. War is wrong anyway you put it, I just don’t believe in war with rules.

    Let me say this, if we fought that war the way we fight wars today I don’t believe you would have the UK you have today or would there be many Jews left to even talk about history.
    12-17-2014 05:38 AM
  7. kilofoxtrot's Avatar
    I have to admit I find war with a set of "rules" ironic. Rules are for games... war is not a game.

    The more terrible war is.... the more you will want to avoid it.

    Having said that... the United States can unleash hell... and still follow the guidelines set in the Geneva Convention. IMO.

    F-35 loaded with a world of hurt.
    Thoughts on Senate CIA report-10653612_10152850416113076_8554711304642487295_n.jpg
    Last edited by kilofoxtrot; 12-17-2014 at 08:48 AM.
    the_tech_eater, A895 and calebt like this.
    12-17-2014 08:38 AM
  8. A895's Avatar
    I would say yes, they are worse and I was not trying to compare. War is wrong anyway you put it, I just dont believe in war with rules.

    Let me say this, if we fought that war the way we fight wars today I dont believe you would have the UK you have today or would there be many Jews left to even talk about history.
    What is so fundamentally different that makes wars now softer? War is war, full stop. Nothing has changed besides technology. There is no easy way to kill people, people die either way.

    What you are arguing for is harsh torture, which is what the CIA was doing. You can interrogate and rough up people, but sticking stuff up peoples rectums? Near drownings? That goes top far. I can see if all they did was smack them around and they gave up the ghost, but the CIA, was doing some real crazy **** that is probably illegal.

    It also came out that some of the people they suspected of terrorism were actually innocent, so now the CIA is guilty of harsh torture techniques used on innocent men. That is what you are arguing for.

    We can argue definition of torture all day but there is no soft way to toruture someone and what the CIA has done is something they really need to be accountable for.
    12-17-2014 09:47 AM
  9. HankAZ's Avatar
    12-17-2014 10:02 AM
  10. A895's Avatar
    Well they are right it is imprecise but I don't think people know about the actual torture report to make an informed polling opinion.
    12-17-2014 10:05 AM
  11. pappy53's Avatar
    Well they are right it is imprecise but I don't think people know about the actual torture report to make an informed polling opinion.
    The ones that released the report cannot make an informed decision, as exactly ZERO participants in the interrogations were interviewed, including the man that did the main interrogations.

    Imprecise? And any polls that you quote are accurate?
    12-17-2014 11:25 AM
  12. A895's Avatar
    The ones that released the report cannot make an informed decision, as exactly ZERO participants in the interrogations were interviewed, including the man that did the main interrogations.
    Why would the congressmen and women interview people who were head of the programs? Why exactly? They were lying to Congress and the American people for years, they have said enough as is, and the evidence and facts speak for themselves. There is nothing he can possibly say that exonerates his actions.

    Imprecise? And any polls that you quote are accurate?
    All polls are inaccurate, you can't ask everybody.
    12-17-2014 11:39 AM
  13. pappy53's Avatar
    Why would the congressmen and women interview people who were head of the programs? Why exactly? They were lying to Congress and the American people for years, they have said enough as is, and the evidence and facts speak for themselves. There is nothing he can possibly say that exonerates his actions.



    All polls are inaccurate, you can't ask everybody.
    What evidence and facts? The Feinstein report? Give me a break. That was a political move, and nothing else.

    "They were lying to Congress and the American people for years". And how do you know this? Oh, that's right, the report said so. /s

    No chance of an inaccurate report, huh? Especially being in the hands of Dems for 10 years.
    12-17-2014 11:45 AM
  14. A895's Avatar
    What evidence and facts? The Feinstein report? Give me a break. That was a political move, and nothing else.

    "They were lying to Congress and the American people for years". And how do you know this? Oh, that's right, the report said so. /s
    So are we going to pretend the report isn't there or......? The report which is a summary of literally millions of papers is very comprehensive, I have read a few pages and it is illuminating.
    12-17-2014 11:51 AM
  15. sanibel's Avatar
    Reading this thread is a torture in and of itself...
    A895, Les74 and joemd60 like this.
    12-17-2014 11:52 AM
  16. pappy53's Avatar
    So are we going to pretend the report isn't there or......? The report which is a summary of literally millions of papers is very comprehensive, I have read a few pages and it is illuminating.
    As I said, the Dems have had 10 years to fix it.
    12-17-2014 11:54 AM
  17. A895's Avatar
    As I said, the Dems have had 10 years to fix it.
    What is "it"?
    12-17-2014 11:56 AM
  18. pappy53's Avatar
    What is "it"?

    The report. I don't trust ANY administrations or politicians.
    12-17-2014 11:59 AM
  19. A895's Avatar
    The report. I don't trust ANY administrations or politicians.
    So why would trust words by the lead interrogator for the CIA torture program? And why would politicians put out a report that makes them look bad? That defeats the purpose.
    12-17-2014 12:02 PM
  20. pappy53's Avatar
    So why would trust words by the lead interrogator for the CIA torture program? And why would politicians put out a report that makes them look bad? That defeats the purpose.
    You believe the partisan report, and I'll believe the people who were there on the scene, and we'll leave it at that.
    12-17-2014 12:54 PM
  21. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    So why would trust words by the lead interrogator for the CIA torture program? And why would politicians put out a report that makes them look bad? That defeats the purpose.
    Posturing.
    12-17-2014 12:58 PM
  22. A895's Avatar
    You believe the partisan report, and I'll believe the people who were there on the scene, and we'll leave it at that.
    The people who made the report got their info direct from the source though, reports and info direct from interrogators and workers there at the CIA.

    Basically the CIA, self incriminated themselves, the politicians just put everything together into a summary.
    12-17-2014 01:00 PM
  23. A895's Avatar
    Posturing.
    For what?
    12-17-2014 01:01 PM
  24. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    For what?
    If I could answer that I'd make a LOOOOOT of money.
    12-17-2014 04:33 PM
  25. A895's Avatar
    If I could answer that I'd make a LOOOOOT of money.
    But I mean, I have heard before that they released the report now for their own agenda, but I haven't heard what that agenda may be. I guess something to bring the conservatives out to rattle their cages maybe after the Republican win across the country.

    But that seems to broad when it makes both sides of the aisle look bad.
    12-17-2014 04:38 PM
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