Obama will go down as an exceptional president

[BreakingKayfabe]

I wish people like myself who have ZERO kids and dependents got a tax break as opposed to the cholos in South Central who have 3 kids (ugly ones at that lol) out of wedlock.

This is a subject I'm most passionate about because I hate people who look for breaks because they have 890 kids.

 

[A895]

Since when is welfare localized? You obviously don't get what we were discussing or rather dreaming about. If taxes were localized, the wealthier regions would have better roads, schools, hospitals, and so on. So what I proposed was that there be a small tax imposed by the federal government to help compensate for the lower revenue of those poorer regions. Welfare has nothing to do with that. And of course we were only discussing this, it's not like we're saying this should be done, or that's it's a viable option. Just discussing it.


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What revenue is lower? Those of lower income still pay taxes.

 

[the_tech_eater]

What revenue is lower? Those of lower income still pay taxes.

Again, you aren't getting it. Read over what we discussed again. You liked and thanked the post were acadia said that some regions are wealthier than others. How could you have forgot it now?


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[the_tech_eater]

I wish people like myself who have ZERO kids and dependents got a tax break as opposed to the cholos in South Central who have 3 kids (ugly ones at that lol) out of wedlock.

This is a subject I'm most passionate about because I hate people who look for breaks because they have 890 kids.

I agree! Down here in South Georgia everyone and their brother tries to have as many kids as possible out of wedlock because of the welfare benefits they get. That right there is the number one reason why I think the system welfare needs a 100% overhaul.


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[A895]

Again, you aren't getting it. Read over what we discussed again. You liked and thanked the post were acadia said that some regions are wealthier than others. How could you have forgot it now?


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He was saying that localizing systems would be better, I agree, he said nothing of lower revenue. You brought that up. I was localizing taxes sounds like an excellent idea to improve infrastructure.

But you suggested that there is another tax to compensate for a gap that wasn't talked about. This is why I said poorer regions still pay taxes, and if there is a tax gap, I would like yo learn about it, by all indications those with less income pay more taxes. What needs to happen is that those taxes should go back into the areas that pay them.

 

[the_tech_eater]

He was saying that localizing systems would be better, I agree, he said nothing of lower revenue. You brought that up. I was localizing taxes sounds like an excellent idea to improve infrastructure.

But you suggested that there is another tax to compensate for a gap that wasn't talked about. This is why I said poorer regions still pay taxes, and if there is a tax gap, I would like yo learn about it, by all indications those with less income pay more taxes. What needs to happen is that those taxes should go back into the areas that pay them.

Of course they still pay taxes, I never even hinted that they didn't. But you have to take into consideration that some regions aren't as populated, and the population in some regions generally have lower incomes for various reasons. I agree 100% with your last sentence though.
this is what I was replying to:
"Personally, I think more localized would be better but then you would see an even greater quality of living standard between areas, for example the west and northeast are far wealthier than most of Midwest and south, save Texas, imagine how much poorer a state like Mississippi would be if it had only to rely on its local tax base."


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[A895]

Of course they still pay taxes, I never even hinted that they didn't. But you have to take into consideration that some regions aren't as populated, and the population in some regions generally have lower incomes for various reasons. I agree 100% with your last sentence though.


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I also have to take into consideration taxes based on income are usually harsher on lower incomes than higher incomes. You complain that you get $200 taken out for taxes, I bet that you don't make no more than $20-25,000 a year, which is lower class income.

That is why people should be aware of beforehand where their taxes go to by attending city or town meetings, voting at local elections on any major projects. These people are paid on your dime and do these projects with your money, your say is most important and should be exercised the most.

Based on past experience on living in a low income city (Rochester, NY), most taxes get allocated to renovating streets, and on education. Our city was one of the worst in NY for graduation rates with close to 40% graduation rate.

 

[acadia11]

He was saying that localizing systems would be better, I agree, he said nothing of lower revenue. You brought that up. I was localizing taxes sounds like an excellent idea to improve infrastructure.

But you suggested that there is another tax to compensate for a gap that wasn't talked about. This is why I said poorer regions still pay taxes, and if there is a tax gap, I would like yo learn about it, by all indications those with less income pay more taxes. What needs to happen is that those taxes should go back into the areas that pay them.

Actually this isn't true most of the southern states take in more on federal aid then they send back in Federal taxes, I need to find the chart. The biggest difference is population density that causes this, the north and west is much more densely populated and overall economies due to industry generate a lot more.

States like Montana, Alaska, North Dakota are anomalies low population but they have high income nbera due to natural resources, the south is devoid of large resource deposits, plus has lower wages, and less industry , except for Texas so overall it's recipe for poorer region that needs to get more federal dollars.

 

[A895]

Actually this isn't true most of the southern states take in more on federal aid then they send back in Federal taxes, I need to find the chart. The biggest difference is population density that causes this, the north and west is much more densely populated and overall economies due to industry generate a lot more.

States like Montana, Alaska, North Dakota are anomalies low population but they have high income nbera due to natural resources, the south is devoid of large resource deposits, plus has lower wages, and less industry , except for Texas so overall it's recipe for poorer region that needs to get more federal dollars.

I think Category Grants go under this. It depends on what the state is asking for. If they want money to renovate areas, they can ask for a category grant, and the Feds pay up to 90% for it. We can't categorize renovations under mandates or black grants as they usually cover government functions.

 

[acadia11]

I agree! Down here in South Georgia everyone and their brother tries to have as many kids as possible out of wedlock because of the welfare benefits they get. That right there is the number one reason why I think the system welfare needs a 100% overhaul.


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Welfare isn't a large part of the government budget. It's actually pretty low in terms of cost. Reagan pretty much undid a welfare as a new deal FDR system ended pretty much with Clinton with final reform acts. Interestingly the Obama phone , has nothing to do with Obama, and isn't real the actual program started under Reagan with lan lines, the government subsidized lan lines because low income earners should have a way for employers to call them and for schools to contact in reference to their children. It was expanded to cell phones under Clinton and further under bush jr

Interesting facts

Welfare aka tanf, has 4 million people on it

Less than 1% of the white population is on welfare , less than 3% of the black population is in welfare

Federal aid tanf is less the 1% of annual budget

The biggest social program actually goes, seniors. Vets , and children mainly and that is Medicaid /Medicare at 35% of annual budget , projected to hit 50% in 20 years , mainly due to aging population. And well whites live longer than blacks I'm just saying stop sucking up all the federal dollars and blaming us!!!

All seriousness though the welfare bit is about one of the biggest political Myths that gets passed around

 

[anon(4698833)]

I mean by design the IRS isn't that bad on paper, but I can see it needing to be overhauled. I don't really mind taxes either. When I used to get checks or pay various taxes for this or that, I don't think "taxes need to die", but I think a better more defined tax system on income would be a good welcome for starters.

The IRS is a horribly mismanaged mess...and I think it really suffers from an unattractiveness it developed over the last few decades because of the system's pre-historic foundation that hasn't really ever been overhauled as much as just having addendum's pinned to it for 50 years to accommodate various financial powers within our country.

I think the problem facing such an overhaul though is the top of the monetary food chain in the United States. It's become top heavy in so many ways that changing the foundation would almost certainly cause instability, and would make many/most of those companies and individuals start looking overseas (relevant to our website, this is something a lot of people have been critical of Apple over...given some of their taxable revenue practices).

It's going to take a very VERY influential core to start such a renovation of the countries revenue and taxation system...which brings even more hurdles to the situation, considering a lot of people's problem with the IRS is that they don't consider it a true branch of the government...what would people think of a system reconfigured by the only people influential enough to actually do it?

 

[acadia11]

The IRS is a horribly mismanaged mess...and I think it really suffers from an unattractiveness it developed over the last few decades because of the system's pre-historic foundation that hasn't really ever been overhauled as much as just having addendum's pinned to it for 50 years to accommodate various financial powers within our country.

I think the problem facing such an overhaul though is the top of the monetary food chain in the United States. It's become top heavy in so many ways that changing the foundation would almost certainly cause instability, and would make many/most of those companies and individuals start looking overseas (relevant to our website, this is something a lot of people have been critical of Apple over...given some of their taxable revenue practices).

It's going to take a very VERY influential core to start such a renovation of the countries revenue and taxation system...which brings even more hurdles to the situation, considering a lot of people's problem with the IRS is that they don't consider it a true branch of the government...what would people think of a system reconfigured by the only people influential enough to actually do it?

How is the irs horribly mismanaged it process hundreds of millions of returns in months, everything is electronic its pretty seamless consider in the volume and the task that needs to be achieved its not perfect.

Now if the question is our tax laws that's different , and that's a product of legislation. But the actual efficiency of the IRS , the implementation and execution of this laws is pretty good.

 

[Scatabrain]

How is the irs horribly mismanaged it process hundreds of millions of returns in months, everything is electronic its pretty seamless consider in the volume and the task that needs to be achieved its not perfect.

Now if the question is our tax laws that's different , and that's a product of legislation. But the actual efficiency of the IRS , the implementation and execution of this laws is pretty good.

There was the one time that one person did that thing.


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[anon(4698833)]

How is the irs horribly mismanaged it process hundreds of millions of returns in months, everything is electronic its pretty seamless consider in the volume and the task that needs to be achieved its not perfect.

Now if the question is our tax laws that's different , and that's a product of legislation. But the actual efficiency of the IRS , the implementation and execution of this laws is pretty good.

Efficiency in processing tax returns isn't the problem...it's the issuance of ITIN numbers to people who should not have them based on their citizenship status, abuse of power when it comes to auditing and their standards of practice when choosing who gets audited (AKA: targeting), extreme cases of government resource wastefulness by field offices and agents, sweeping misconduct of IRS investigators and agents under the rug...amongst many other things I can't think of off the top of my head.

The truth is, they responded to a lot of it...and how? By making a blanket move of freezing employee promotions and cutting bonuses offered all the way down to entry level positions. Essentially, instead of going after the specifics, they punished the entire branch of employees.

I worked for the federal government as a LEO for almost a decade. I had a lot of time to sit and absorb this stuff as it was happening all around me, and had several close acquaintances and friends who were in the thick of the entire investigation that happened a few years ago, and ended up directly affected.

So yes, I feel mismanaged is a perfect term for the IRS. Processing tax returns is just a piece of what that service is responsible for...and a pretty cut and dry one at that.

 

[acadia11]

Efficiency in processing tax returns isn't the problem...it's the issuance of ITIN numbers to people who should not have them based on their citizenship status, abuse of power when it comes to auditing and their standards of practice when choosing who gets audited (AKA: targeting), extreme cases of government resource wastefulness by field offices and agents, sweeping misconduct of IRS investigators and agents under the rug...amongst many other things I can't think of off the top of my head.

The truth is, they responded to a lot of it...and how? By making a blanket move of freezing employee promotions and cutting bonuses offered all the way down to entry level positions. Essentially, instead of going after the specifics, they punished the entire branch of employees.

I worked for the federal government as a LEO for almost a decade. I had a lot of time to sit and absorb this stuff as it was happening all around me, and had several close acquaintances and friends who were in the thick of the entire investigation that happened a few years ago, and ended up directly affected.

So yes, I feel mismanaged is a perfect term for the IRS. Processing tax returns is just a piece of what that service is responsible for...and a pretty cut and dry one at that.

Can you provide the statistics of ITIN numbers being given to people which shouldn't have them? I will bet this is one of those again political myths , because of "prejudice" people want to be true but actually isn't . Much like black people are welfare cases waiting to happen and they vote so they get more welfare . Forget the actual facts that 97% of blacks are not on welfare, and that most social aid goes to elderly whites but hey I digress.

I would bet that ITIN fraud is low and the impact of it is minimal in terms of dollar cost. But I haven't seen it. I remember they did this for food stamps program in Some state , and they spent more money on the program to detect fraud than actual fraud found, and the most common type of fraud was college students claiming emancipation to get groceries. I'm just saying.

I don't know all the specifics of the IRS investigation, I'd have to read more. As to the promotions all federal employees had a salary freeze in 2012 not just the IRS. This was as part of the sequestor people demand less money spent on government this is what you get. This is my main issue with GOP today it's full of idealogist as opposed to pragmatics who don't take into account what works or what doesn't work. They like ideology far more than what's functional. Like the government shouldn't spend money, etc... If we did that during the recession we would have had a 10 year recession.

 

[anon(4698833)]

To be honest, I don't care enough about it at this moment to find the numbers, but it was significant enough to draw a pretty serious amount of attention from their internal investigative unit of TIGTA. And to be honest, even if the number was low (which it was not), the effects ripple out to a HUGE financial issue to the U.S. because of what ITIN's allow people to do that they would have a hard or impossible time doing otherwise.

But the original point was mismanagement, and any one of those points would be call for management changes and oversight/accountability investigations. To me, that is a cut and dry case of mismanagement.

 

[anon(4698833)]

Some numbers relatable here in this article...just a quick google search...

IRS Still Struggling With Tax Treatment Of Immigrants, Changes Rules Again - Forbes

(my laziness comes in part to me posting and also beating my nieces *** in wii bowling at the moment, lol)

 

[anon(4698833)]

Also, the position freezes and bonus cuts, while also felt across the board in other sectors (including my own at the time) were a separate event to the IRS investigation repercussions.

 

[acadia11]

To be honest, I don't care enough about it at this moment to find the numbers, but it was significant enough to draw a pretty serious amount of attention from their internal investigative unit of TIGTA. And to be honest, even if the number was low (which it was not), the effects ripple out to a HUGE financial issue to the U.S. because of what ITIN's allow people to do that they would have a hard or impossible time doing otherwise.

But the original point was mismanagement, and any one of those points would be call for management changes and oversight/accountability investigations. To me, that is a cut and dry case of mismanagement.

This is fine, but that doesn't mean they aren't efficient , and I would argue the issue is the tax code and not the IRS also I wanted specific numbers on people who were using fake ITIN for tax credits

 

[anon(4698833)]

This is fine, but that doesn't mean they aren't efficient , and I would argue the issue is the tax code and not the IRS also I wanted specific numbers on people who were using fake ITIN for tax credits

Just because I can't provide you with specific numbers doesn't mean that it isn't happening...it's not a real important piece of my life to invest that much research into it, but I am aware it is happening (and is not just some over blown issue that is misrepresented...it called for an internal criminal investigation for god's sake).

As far as efficiency, that's an word you used, not me. I said mismanaged. To be perfectly honest, they're extreme efficient at taking our money.