1. acadia11's Avatar
    Utopianism also finds a receptive audience among societies disenchanted, disaffected, dissatisfied, and maladjusted who are unable to assume responsibility for their own real or perceived conditions but instead blame their surroundings, the system and others.

    Kind of like you blaming Bush when the blame rest with Obama.


    Sent from my iPhone 5s using 100% recycled electrons and of course Tapatalk
    Blame on what.
    A895 likes this.
    12-15-2014 02:54 PM
  2. hydrogen3's Avatar
    Obama did not repeal the patriot act.


    Sent from my iPhone 5s using 100% recycled electrons and of course Tapatalk
    12-15-2014 03:11 PM
  3. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    1) is it better than or worse than when he took office? Did Reagan fix the U.S. Economy when he was in office? What is your definition of fixed. Every other president has been measured in is it better than when they received it.
    "Fixed" and "Improved" are definitely very different terms. This administration has improved several pieces of the economy, but let's be real here..."Fixed the economy" would be like saying "Fixed the environment".

    2) tech savvy is his ability to utilize advanced metrics and social networks to solve problems, you should the number of mathematicians and computer scientist working on his campaign. I know this because my friend and I both worked in the campaign, he writing some of the high tech voter mapping software. His election program was a machine, far more advanced than anything before it, it's his ability to use technology to solve problems that makes him tech savvy.
    It's all about perspective. By comparison, Bush was the most tech savvy president at the time, given that Clinton had sent a total of TWO emails in his entire term. Obama enjoys a very thriving technological world, and has enjoyed a very large expanse of technology during his term/s. As the years go on, Obama's tech savviness will look archaic to the next guy, and the guy after that. Like I said, perspective...it's not like Obama was in the captains chair of this technology boom, he just enjoyed it like each president before and after him did/will.

    3) all presidents do not actively engage the youth, that's a ridiculous claim, Obama on this is much better, note the ability to raise so much money from youth contributors . Look man you give this man no credit ever and that's just ridiculous.
    I never took any credit away from Obama for being engaging to youth...I said all presidents are engaging towards youth, and it's true...it's one of the most useful ways of creating future voters by engaging them when they are young, planting seeds if you will. I just feel that youth engagement is something all presidents do as a basic essential of being the president, and the others did just as good a job as Obama.

    The rest are opinion comments of the poster as they are opinions not much I can prove or disprove , except for the troops, Iraq we were completely out , Afghanistan reduced numbers, Obama switching to a precision war, as opposed to total war, using drones , spec ops, advisors , etc ... There by getting results with limited engagement reducing cost and lives lost. A scalpel vs a sword and this IMHO is way you must deal with 21st century threats not named Russia or China.
    Again, reducing the number and "pulling out" are not equal. Also, this references back to technology...as our technology increases in precision, so do our tools of war and abilities to follow the comment you made about scalpel's vs. swords. If the technology of today were available to any of the previous presidents, we'd see a drastic lowering of lives lost and even human involvement PERIOD. This isn't Obama's secret ability, this is just, again, something he is enjoying because he happens to be the president at this time.
    12-15-2014 03:18 PM
  4. acadia11's Avatar
    "Fixed" and "Improved" are definitely very different terms. This administration has improved several pieces of the economy, but let's be real here..."Fixed the economy" would be like saying "Fixed the environment".



    It's all about perspective. By comparison, Bush was the most tech savvy president at the time, given that Clinton had sent a total of TWO emails in his entire term. Obama enjoys a very thriving technological world, and has enjoyed a very large expanse of technology during his term/s. As the years go on, Obama's tech savviness will look archaic to the next guy, and the guy after that. Like I said, perspective...it's not like Obama was in the captains chair of this technology boom, he just enjoyed it like each president before and after him did/will.



    I never took any credit away from Obama for being engaging to youth...I said all presidents are engaging towards youth, and it's true...it's one of the most useful ways of creating future voters by engaging them when they are young, planting seeds if you will. I just feel that youth engagement is something all presidents do as a basic essential of being the president, and the others did just as good a job as Obama.



    Again, reducing the number and "pulling out" are not equal. Also, this references back to technology...as our technology increases in precision, so do our tools of war and abilities to follow the comment you made about scalpel's vs. swords. If the technology of today were available to any of the previous presidents, we'd see a drastic lowering of lives lost and even human involvement PERIOD. This isn't Obama's secret ability, this is just, again, something he is enjoying because he happens to be the president at this time.
    Would you say Reagan fixed the economy or improved the economy? And Obama objectively speaking has done more ... Where is the praise for Obama as it was for Reagan?

    Clinton was far more tech savvy than Bush, and more specifically his administration and Al Gore, the running joke about him inventing the Internet was wrong but Al Gore was instrumental to its development, see the letter by Robert Kahn and Vinton Cerf, Some of the fathers of Internet specifically development of TCP/IP, tech savvy doesn't mean personal use it means understanding and usage of technology as it applies to political initiative.

    http://web.eecs.umich.edu/~fessler/m...y/gore,net.txt

    Listen lots of people drive cars, very few people drive like Jimmie Johnson. Saying that all presidents engage the youth is like saying many people drive. Obama is exceptional at youth engagement especially objectively speaking, youth donations, party sign up, volunteers, so was Reagan (young republicans movement) for that matter, maybe it was his Hollywood roots, but could you compare gW bush SR. Youth engagement to Obamas? Absolutely, not.

    Like I said when Obamas presidency is over people will be tripping over themselves saying how great he was, and forget conversation like this. Objectively speaking Obama is exceptional and has done an exceptional job period, the credit will come. Even by you mark my words. The wave of nostalgia, the need to fear will be removed because he'll be out of office, and this will be the key difference. Like I said Ali is loved today, a great champion, a great American, with his own Museum everyone forgets today he was hated at one point.
    Last edited by acadia11; 12-15-2014 at 04:09 PM.
    12-15-2014 03:59 PM
  5. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    I never expressed my taste/distaste for Obama, so it's funny that you'd assume such with the comment "Even by you."

    Personally, I think all presidents are pawns...I have no real attachment to any of them because in my opinion, they are all just facades. As a person, President Obama seems like a great guy...respectful, engaging and particularly well spoken at times...but honestly, none of my responses were in light of what I think of Obama, but more response to the comments A895 made which I found humorous...with the exception of the youth engagement...I'll simply bow away from that comment as me being inaccurate because I don't have the where with all to look up facts to support my opinion in that regard.

    My retort about tech savviness was also in response to A895, who does not share your idea of what it means, and was reflecting it as a personal thing (proven by his response about giving the queen an iPod). Clinton actually WASN'T tech savvy at all, self admitted by him when asked about using blackberry's back during the Bush administration...he said he was "old school", and regarded his love for his saxophone as something that keeps him limited to the electronic world. Doesn't mean his administration wasn't on the forefront of tech...as you said, Gore was instrumental in the creation of the modern internet...but again, this was not the context of the discussion had between me and A895 before you chimed in.
    12-15-2014 04:19 PM
  6. A895's Avatar
    Makes no sense.


    Sent from my iPhone 5s using 100% recycled electrons and of course Tapatalk
    Do you not align with the right?

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    12-15-2014 04:31 PM
  7. hydrogen3's Avatar
    Do you not align with the right?

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    Oh I get it. Chuckles


    Sent from my iPhone 5s using 100% recycled electrons and of course Tapatalk
    12-15-2014 04:33 PM
  8. kilofoxtrot's Avatar
    Utopianism also finds a receptive audience among societies disenchanted, disaffected, dissatisfied, and maladjusted who are unable to assume responsibility for their own real or perceived conditions but instead blame their surroundings, the system and others.

    Kind of like you blaming Bush when the blame rest with Obama.


    Sent from my iPhone 5s using 100% recycled electrons and of course Tapatalk
    So the crappy economy Bush handed to Obama in Jan of '09 is really Obama's fault?
    A895 and Les74 like this.
    12-15-2014 04:33 PM
  9. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    I share Sean's view about a president being a pawn. It is usually whoever the party grooms that person to be so they can run and get elected. I say this because I've never been one to defend a president but someone brought up Hurricane Katrina and "tech savvy." Dude, really? Give us some examples of how tech savvy Obama is. The catch is you need to give me those examples in regards to things that previous presidents before him had access to and the same advantages.

    And what about Hurricane Katrina exactly? And the shoe throwing incident? What about it? What if Obama gets a shoe thrown at him? What will you say then?
    12-15-2014 04:44 PM
  10. Scatabrain's Avatar
    Would you say Reagan fixed the economy or improved the economy? And Obama objectively speaking has done more ... Where is the praise for Obama as it was for Reagan?

    Clinton was far more tech savvy than Bush, and more specifically his administration and Al Gore, the running joke about him inventing the Internet was wrong but Al Gore was instrumental to its development, see the letter by Robert Kahn and Vinton Cerf, Some of the fathers of Internet specifically development of TCP/IP, tech savvy doesn't mean personal use it means understanding and usage of technology as it applies to political initiative.

    http://web.eecs.umich.edu/~fessler/m...y/gore,net.txt

    Listen lots of people drive cars, very few people drive like Jimmie Johnson. Saying that all presidents engage the youth is like saying many people drive. Obama is exceptional at youth engagement especially objectively speaking, youth donations, party sign up, volunteers, so was Reagan (young republicans movement) for that matter, maybe it was his Hollywood roots, but could you compare gW bush SR. Youth engagement to Obamas? Absolutely, not.

    Like I said when Obamas presidency is over people will be tripping over themselves saying how great he was, and forget conversation like this. Objectively speaking Obama is exceptional and has done an exceptional job period, the credit will come. Even by you mark my words. The wave of nostalgia, the need to fear will be removed because he'll be out of office, and this will be the key difference. Like I said Ali is loved today, a great champion, a great American, with his own Museum everyone forgets today he was hated at one point.
    Reagan left us with a debt we can never repay.

    Well actually Clinton repaid it. Then G W racked the total to new heights.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    12-15-2014 04:46 PM
  11. acadia11's Avatar
    I never expressed my taste/distaste for Obama, so it's funny that you'd assume such with the comment "Even by you."

    Personally, I think all presidents are pawns...I have no real attachment to any of them because in my opinion, they are all just facades. As a person, President Obama seems like a great guy...respectful, engaging and particularly well spoken at times...but honestly, none of my responses were in light of what I think of Obama, but more response to the comments A895 made which I found humorous...with the exception of the youth engagement...I'll simply bow away from that comment as me being inaccurate because I don't have the where with all to look up facts to support my opinion in that regard.

    My retort about tech savviness was also in response to A895, who does not share your idea of what it means, and was reflecting it as a personal thing (proven by his response about giving the queen an iPod). Clinton actually WASN'T tech savvy at all, self admitted by him when asked about using blackberry's back during the Bush administration...he said he was "old school", and regarded his love for his saxophone as something that keeps him limited to the electronic world. Doesn't mean his administration wasn't on the forefront of tech...as you said, Gore was instrumental in the creation of the modern internet...but again, this was not the context of the discussion had between me and A895 before you chimed in.
    I don't think a president is a pawn, but I do think anyone you can exchange every 4 years from power can not be that important because things move over decades when it comes to countries not a few years.
    12-15-2014 04:50 PM
  12. acadia11's Avatar
    Reagan left us with a debt we can never repay.

    Well actually Clinton repaid it. Then G W racked the total to new heights.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    This is true Reagan tripled the debt under his presidency. The good thing he learned though is that he raised taxes after he saw sharp tax cuts kill revenue, especially in the mist of the Cold War. This is why Bush Sr. Famously said no new taxes. Which he then subsequently raised them again. This is when the GOP was pragmatic and a responsible party.

    Clinton did not repay it. He balanced the deficit, meaning we were not adding to the debt. The uS hasn't had 0 debt since the early 1900s, I believe, but I have to look it up though.
    12-15-2014 04:54 PM
  13. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    I don't think a president is a pawn, but I do think anyone you can exchange every 4 years from power can not be that important because things move over decades when it comes to countries not a few years.
    It's not even 4 or 8 years. First the last two years of a first term are getting your campaign together for a second term and the last year of a second term is doing your buddies favors.
    12-15-2014 04:56 PM
  14. Scatabrain's Avatar
    Clinton did not repay it. He balanced the deficit, meaning we were not adding to the debt. The uS hasn't had 0 debt since the early 1900s, I believe, but I have to look it up though.
    Yeah good point. Sounded good though.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    12-15-2014 04:56 PM
  15. kilofoxtrot's Avatar
    I share Sean's view about a president being a pawn. It is usually whoever the party grooms that person to be so they can run and get elected. I say this because I've never been one to defend a president but someone brought up Hurricane Katrina and "tech savvy." Dude, really? Give us some examples of how tech savvy Obama is. The catch is you need to give me those examples in regards to things that previous presidents before him had access to and the same advantages.

    And what about Hurricane Katrina exactly? And the shoe throwing incident? What about it? What if Obama gets a shoe thrown at him? What will you say then?
    He wasn't president at the time, but he absolutely destroyed McCain when it came to social media. There wasn't an iPhone when he announced his candidacy in 2007... and there is no doubt in my mind he could have use one if it was put in his hand then or now.
    A895 likes this.
    12-15-2014 04:59 PM
  16. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    He wasn't president at the time, but he absolutely destroyed McCain when it came to social media. There wasn't an iPhone when he announced his candidacy in 2007... and there is no doubt in my mind he could have use one if it was put in his hand then or now.
    I'll give you that. I remember the whole "Obama loves his blackberry" thing.

    But in what sense has it served the public and not a campaign? I'm just saying that I think it's a silly thing to argue for his benefit when comparing him to past presidents.
    12-15-2014 05:05 PM
  17. acadia11's Avatar
    I'll give you that. I remember the whole "Obama loves his blackberry" thing.

    But in what sense has it served the public and not a campaign? I'm just saying that I think it's a silly thing to argue for his benefit when comparing him to past presidents.
    Green energy technology, it's the next boom he recognizes this.
    A895 likes this.
    12-15-2014 05:26 PM
  18. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    I'm just saying that I think it's a silly thing to argue for his benefit when comparing him to past presidents.
    Exactly. It's like naming electric cars as a benefit of Obama because we've seen the most technological advancements in said field since he's taken office. If we are to make comparisons between previous presidents and Obama, Bush actually passed legislation for BETTER fuel efficiencies than Obama did...the differences were really quite negligible all things considered, but let's be real, just because the technology pops up during a presidents term doesn't mean he was the man responsible for it or the ease of use created by it's existence.
    12-15-2014 05:27 PM
  19. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Green energy technology, it's the next boom he recognizes this.
    In 2002, Hydrogen cell technology was the "next boom", and Bush recognized it.

    I will give Obama some major kudos though...his backing of Tesla, both as an idea and financially through federal loans (which were repaid faster than any manufacturer that benefited from such) was rather commendable, and I believe what Tesla is bringing to the table in the next few years will really change the face of electric cars.
    A895 likes this.
    12-15-2014 05:33 PM
  20. A895's Avatar
    I'll give you that. I remember the whole "Obama loves his blackberry" thing.

    But in what sense has it served the public and not a campaign? I'm just saying that I think it's a silly thing to argue for his benefit when comparing him to past presidents.
    Being tech savvy has helped him be more in touch and more personal to the people he serves. He did a Reddit AMA, he's on Twitter, etc. He has a smartphone, albeit an older BlackBerry but he at least has a phone. He makes it his mission to focus on tech.

    Have you not heard of his initiative for net neutrality? If it goes through, no more data throttling, no more data caps, more ubiquitous high speed internet like Google Fiber. That is what makes him tech savvy, he isn't ignoring the technology aspect and its implications on laws.

    While G Bush wasn't elected when smartphone were ubiquitous, the iPhone was around in his second term, and other OSs were around too (WebOS and Windows Mobile, and Symbian for example).

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    12-15-2014 05:33 PM
  21. A895's Avatar
    In 2002, Hydrogen cell technology was the "next boom", and Bush recognized it.

    I will give Obama some major kudos though...his backing of Tesla, both as an idea and financially through federal loans (which were repaid faster than any manufacturer that benefited from such) was rather commendable, and I believe what Tesla is bringing to the table in the next few years will really change the face of electric cars.
    Not only that the advent of electric card has increased the number of charge stations for them. They are available in a lot of gas stations in Metro Atlanta for example.

    He has had a more green focused view than past presidents. Which is sad because if past presidents were aware of the future.implications of what was going on, we wouldn't have our work cut out for us now.

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    12-15-2014 05:36 PM
  22. acadia11's Avatar
    Being tech savvy has helped him be more in touch and more personal to the people he serves. He did a Reddit AMA, he's on Twitter, etc. He has a smartphone, albeit an older BlackBerry but he at least has a phone. He makes it his mission to focus on tech.

    Have you not heard of his initiative for net neutrality? If it goes through, no more data throttling, no more data caps, more ubiquitous high speed internet like Google Fiber. That is what makes him tech savvy, he isn't ignoring the technology aspect and its implications on laws.

    While G Bush wasn't elected when smartphone were ubiquitous, the iPhone was around in his second term, and other OSs were around too (WebOS and Windows Mobile, and Symbian for example).

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    President can only carry blackberry it's the only phone certified right now for security for President to carry.
    12-15-2014 05:38 PM
  23. acadia11's Avatar
    Being tech savvy has helped him be more in touch and more personal to the people he serves. He did a Reddit AMA, he's on Twitter, etc. He has a smartphone, albeit an older BlackBerry but he at least has a phone. He makes it his mission to focus on tech.

    Have you not heard of his initiative for net neutrality? If it goes through, no more data throttling, no more data caps, more ubiquitous high speed internet like Google Fiber. That is what makes him tech savvy, he isn't ignoring the technology aspect and its implications on laws.

    While G Bush wasn't elected when smartphone were ubiquitous, the iPhone was around in his second term, and other OSs were around too (WebOS and Windows Mobile, and Symbian for example).

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    Nail in the head the net neutrality initiatives on his part was bold. The guy understands technology , he's not Gore level but he's got a strong pulse on what is driving tech right now.
    12-15-2014 05:41 PM
  24. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Being tech savvy has helped him be more in touch and more personal to the people he serves. He did a Reddit AMA, he's on Twitter, etc. He has a smartphone, albeit an older BlackBerry but he at least has a phone. He makes it his mission to focus on tech.

    Have you not heard of his initiative for net neutrality? If it goes through, no more data throttling, no more data caps, more ubiquitous high speed internet like Google Fiber. That is what makes him tech savvy, he isn't ignoring the technology aspect and its implications on laws.

    While G Bush wasn't elected when smartphone were ubiquitous, the iPhone was around in his second term, and other OSs were around too (WebOS and Windows Mobile, and Symbian for example).

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    Let's be realistic...the iPhone came at the very end of his term (and was not the caliber product it is today...yet). None of the other offerings in the "smart phone" world were even all that useful, and I owned dozens of them...it's like comparing computers of today vs. computers of the 90's, there's just no realistic level of comparison honestly. NOBODY used the devices back then like we do today.
    BreakingKayfabe likes this.
    12-15-2014 05:43 PM
  25. acadia11's Avatar
    Exactly. It's like naming electric cars as a benefit of Obama because we've seen the most technological advancements in said field since he's taken office. If we are to make comparisons between previous presidents and Obama, Bush actually passed legislation for BETTER fuel efficiencies than Obama did...the differences were really quite negligible all things considered, but let's be real, just because the technology pops up during a presidents term doesn't mean he was the man responsible for it or the ease of use created by it's existence.
    Gore and Clinton were directly catalyst for the net boom. Gore more specifically, gore had been working on commercializing net technology since the 70s, and his high performance computing and telecommunications Act of 1991 directly led to funding the creation Mosaic the first Graphical browser. Later would be the foundation of Netscape.
    12-15-2014 05:44 PM
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