1. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    You haven't heard a word I've said to you. In any case,

    What is black denial?

    What is white denial?
    12-13-2014 12:32 PM
  2. Scatabrain's Avatar
    Can we all agree that this is not productive?


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    A895 likes this.
    12-13-2014 12:38 PM
  3. kilofoxtrot's Avatar
    Where is the use of "Black Denial"?
    Give us some examples....... some scenarios please.
    A895 likes this.
    12-13-2014 01:04 PM
  4. acadia11's Avatar
    What is white denial?
    The idea by some whites that society is colorblind and there does not exist or lack of recognition of systematic Racism which effects society.

    For example, the idea, that the election ObAma nullify or precludes the existence of systematic Racism. We have black president therefore we have equality, essentially it's the denial that race is an issue or race influences our perception of others.

    What I find funny is if you read articles from the early 1900s, they state that the negro exaggerates about racism , that the idea of Racism as a problem in America is a delusion of victim hood and attempt to extract sympathy from Amaericans. Today everyone agrees that of course there was a problem from Jim Crow to disenfranchisement. It's kind of the same thing today.
    Last edited by acadia11; 12-13-2014 at 01:49 PM.
    12-13-2014 01:35 PM
  5. acadia11's Avatar
    Can we all agree that this is not productive?


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    I think it's very productive
    12-13-2014 01:50 PM
  6. Scatabrain's Avatar
    I think it's very productive
    I wish i could see the point.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    12-13-2014 01:52 PM
  7. acadia11's Avatar
    Sean, let me see if I can understand your anger. Here is what I see , "racism" is the only thing that whites are seen as collectively responsible, thusly if imply that white on black racism is of greater concern, you take it as a personal issue because you feel you must answer for it, because you are a member of that collective.

    It's like for me being black, I somehow am viewed as part of a collective of blacks as opposed to an individual. If there is a crime committed I hope it's not a blackguy because black males are viewed as a collective in this regard and I somehow have to justify the action, it reflects poorly on all blacks. The only time whites feel this annoyance is when the discussion is racism, so you become defensive. Which is also why you attempt to equate black on white racism to white on black racism. Both are wrong as I've agreed, but Systematic Racism is not simply white on black racism, and it's not something that effects whites.

    I comprehend your reaction because blacks are always viewed as a collective. Welcome to my world. But let's move along from this, stop taking Racism as a personal issue. Systematic Racism is not about a white cop shooting a black teen or some white guy calling a black guy a N......
    12-13-2014 02:16 PM
  8. acadia11's Avatar
    I wish i could see the point.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Not every discussion is had in order to come to an agreement. I'll never convince Sean otherwise of his beliefs and I knew this before I engaged in this discussion. As to the point ... You are still reading aren't you and so is he.
    12-13-2014 02:18 PM
  9. acadia11's Avatar
    You can call it whatever you want, I just personally don't want to continue a conversation with a person who truly feels that only one type of racism is legitimate. If you want to consider yourself a winner because of this, have at it.

    As far as seeing the world for what it is...if you like to go through your day thinking the big bad white man is the only true enemy in this thing called racism, I feel sorry for you.
    Lol! You again have not heard a thing I've said, what big bad white guy? Who is this person? Again you are making this a personal issue, it's not about a black guy Vs a white guy. More over when did I say this phantom was an enemy? I want you to sit and think about your choice of words. I feel all racism is wrong , I do not feel all racism is an issue, and I feel Systemic Racism is an issue. Do you know what is Systemic Racism?
    12-13-2014 02:29 PM
  10. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Sean, let me see if I can understand your anger. Here is what I see , "racism" is the only thing that whites are seen as collectively responsible, thusly if imply that white on black racism is of greater concern, you take it as a personal issue because you feel you must answer for it, because you are a member of that collective.

    It's like for me being black, I somehow am viewed as part of a collective of blacks as opposed to an individual. If there is a crime committed I hope it's not a blackguy because black males are viewed as a collective in this regard and I somehow have to justify the action, it reflects poorly on all blacks. The only time whites feel this annoyance is when the discussion is racism, so you become defensive. Which is also why you attempt to equate black on white racism to white on black racism. Both are wrong as I've agreed, but Systematic Racism is not simply white on black racism, and it's not something that effects whites.

    I comprehend your reaction because blacks are always viewed as a collective. Welcome to my world. But let's move along from this, stop taking Racism as a personal issue. Systematic Racism is not about a white cop shooting a black teen or some white guy calling a black guy a N......
    You decided to focus squarely on the theory of systematic racism, not me.
    12-13-2014 04:01 PM
  11. acadia11's Avatar
    You decided to focus squarely on the theory of systematic racism, not me.
    Ok. So what are you saying that black on white racism is an equivalent issue to systemic Racism, I absolutely disagree.
    12-13-2014 04:23 PM
  12. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Ok. So what are you saying that black on white racism is an equivalent issue to systemic Racism, I absolutely disagree.
    You can go back and specifically read what my points were...like I said, discussion of this between me and you was done when you told me that one type or racism was more legitimate than another. That's your opinion, and you have ever right to think that, but I also think you're a narrow minded bigot for thinking that. My stance is that racism is racism...and regardless of which kind people think it's historically worse, it all needs to stop, but won't because it's rooted in general prejudices, which are a lot harder to isolate and convince people to stop. If you don't agree, awesome.
    12-13-2014 04:48 PM
  13. acadia11's Avatar
    You can go back and specifically read what my points were...like I said, discussion of this between me and you was done when you told me that one type or racism was more legitimate than another. That's your opinion, and you have ever right to think that, but I also think you're a narrow minded bigot for thinking that. My stance is that racism is racism...and regardless of which kind people think it's historically worse, it all needs to stop, but won't because it's rooted in general prejudices, which are a lot harder to isolate and convince people to stop. If you don't agree, awesome.
    I never used the word legitimate so please don't put these words in my mouth. My statement and again is that one is an issue and one is not. Are all cancer diagnoses the same, absolutely not. In the same vain saying that racism by default is equivalent is false. Black on white racism is not an issue in this country, where as white on black racism is more specifically because of Systemic Racism. It's as basic as offending someone is not life threatening or altering where as limiting their opportunities can be life altering. They are simply not equivalent. If you are arguing that all racism is the same, simply tell me why this is the case? I've agreed all racism is wrong however to say the impact and effect of all racism is the same is simply false. We know why you attempt to make this equivalence which is fine... But I'm sorry it's not the same. Are US torture interrogations the same as ISIS killing sprees?

    Also, I do not believe as pointed out that Racism is a function of prejudice it's a function of zero sum economics. Take Mexican illegal immigration what is the complaint that the people are simply Mexican, no the complaint is they are taking jobs and consuming resources.
    12-13-2014 04:59 PM
  14. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Great, thanks for sharing your view on things. You've read mine.
    12-13-2014 05:07 PM
  15. acadia11's Avatar
    Great, thanks for sharing your view on things. You've read mine.
    No I haven't. You never answered a very simple question why do you feel black on white racism is equivalent to systemic racism? What makes them congruent. Or an equivalent issue in society?
    12-13-2014 05:14 PM
  16. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    No I haven't.
    Oh no, you have certainly read it...whether it was sufficient for you to sleep at night is irrelevant to me. If you feel I didn't answer a question you have about a theory you subscribe to, sucks for you because as I said before, your picking and choosing of which racisms are/are not "real issues" has made me uninterested in continuing the in depth conversation with you about it because I find your views narrow minded.
    12-13-2014 05:19 PM
  17. kilofoxtrot's Avatar
    Oh no, you have certainly read it...whether it was sufficient for you to sleep at night is irrelevant to me. If you feel I didn't answer a question you have about a theory you subscribe to, sucks for you because as I said before, your picking and choosing of which racisms are/are not "real issues" has made me uninterested in continuing the in depth conversation with you about it because I find your views narrow minded.
    Answer the man's question. And while you are at it, what is Black Denial?
    12-13-2014 06:58 PM
  18. acadia11's Avatar
    Oh no, you have certainly read it...whether it was sufficient for you to sleep at night is irrelevant to me. If you feel I didn't answer a question you have about a theory you subscribe to, sucks for you because as I said before, your picking and choosing of which racisms are/are not "real issues" has made me uninterested in continuing the in depth conversation with you about it because I find your views narrow minded.
    You pick and chose the levels of torture in the discussion on CIA, so for you to now say things are pun intended only black and white is nonsense. Did you not say ISIS torturing was worse than what the uS did?

    Finally, instead grabbing your ball and walking off the court and saying I'm not playing anymore be a man. It's simple why do you feel black on white racism is an issue in America. What's he statistics, what is the societal impact, what is the effect on your life personally. How do you feel it everyday. What is the impediment to your pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness. It's very simple ... I've given you many analogies. I sincerely want to understand. What is your reasoning.

    Sean I know why you don't actually answer the question, it's simple, deep down you know your claim is ridiculous and it is a defensive reaction not born out of any real evidentiary hypothesis. If you had to really articulate it, you can not, because it's at odds with history, logic, and current events. It's a belief you hold that in a word doesn't jive with your logical sense, so you say, I'm done with the conversation. You feel a certain way but if you had to actually defend it, it would sound absurd.
    12-13-2014 07:16 PM
  19. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    You pick and chose the levels of torture in the discussion on CIA, so for you to now say things are pun intended only black and white is nonsense. Did you not say ISIS torturing was worse than what the uS did?
    Nope, I said they were done for different reasons and to different people,

    Finally, instead grabbing your ball and walking off the court and saying I'm not playing anymore be a man. It's simple why do you feel black on white racism is an issue in America. What's he statistics, what is the societal impact, what is the effect on your life personally. How do you feel it everyday. What is the impediment to your pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness. It's very simple ... I've given you many analogies. I sincerely want to understand. What is your reasoning.

    Sean I know why you don't actually answer the question, it's simple, deep down you know your claim is ridiculous and it is a defensive reaction not born out of any real evidentiary hypothesis. If you had to really articulate it, you can not, because it's at odds with history, logic, and current events. It's a belief you hold that in a word doesn't jive with your logical sense, so you say, I'm done with the conversation. You feel a certain way but if you had to actually defend it, it would sound absurd.
    I'm not going to lose sleep about you thinking I have no argument here...that's just fine with me. The truth is, I made a choice to stop the conversation with you because of a comment you made which I found ridiculously narrow minded and bigoted. If what I've posted isn't sufficient for you, oh well...and you can try to bait me until your blue in the face...I find it kind of funny.

    You have a very different view than I do, and that's fine, I can live with that...KKK members do to, and I don't lose sleep over their thoughts either.
    12-13-2014 08:53 PM
  20. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Answer the man's question. And while you are at it, what is Black Denial?
    It was really just a term I put on there to oppose the white denial one...but a good example of the idea would be the kind of mob mentality that followed the Michael Brown verdict. You know, attributing any scenario like that to police brutality, regardless of the actual events details or whether the person was committing a crime. Creating a martyr blindly to support an agenda instead of actually supporting a legitimate cause based on a legitimate situation.
    12-13-2014 08:56 PM
  21. DS1331's Avatar
    I'd like some feedback on this topic...What would happen if people found out(in the year 2020), that Obama knew all along that he was born in Kenya? Would he be liable for criminal punishment? Would everything that he signed into law be reversed?
    What does that have anything to do with all the points the OP made about him ??? He brings up good stats that Obama did and you bring up his heritage. Good job you are the reason why this country sucks
    12-13-2014 09:10 PM
  22. Scatabrain's Avatar
    As wackadoo as this is at least its on topic.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    12-13-2014 09:13 PM
  23. acadia11's Avatar
    It was really just a term I put on there to oppose the white denial one...but a good example of the idea would be the kind of mob mentality that followed the Michael Brown verdict. You know, attributing any scenario like that to police brutality, regardless of the actual events details or whether the person was committing a crime. Creating a martyr blindly to support an agenda instead of actually supporting a legitimate cause based on a legitimate situation.
    I think you missed it here, the issue is because of systematic racism the evidence would be presented in a biased manner moreover the main point is that the word of the cop would be believed or carry extra weight, it never occurs to you to question which the police are notorious for doing whether they are telling the truth. ps my brother is an officer and they absolutely will and do lie to pretext their own. In a nutshell they feel they out their life on the line, so what I lie sometimes. Even that means I was wrong in this killing, I bust my axx everyday so it gives me w right to make a mistake, and not face consequence. This is how some cops view it, not to mention the power trip.

    Notice Wilsons testimony was geared to present brown as menacing a threat. It never occurs to say hey maybe Wilson simply lied and the fact that there were 40 witnesses against 1 who sided with Wilson agreed something was amiss with the shooting. The issue goes beyond whether the evidence bears out , it's the biased that will exist in how that evidence will be viewed. You won't question Wilsons comments. This is s symptom of systematic racism the word of white male inherently will carry more credibility than a black.

    Look at the Garner death was their anything menacing about Garners actions, did he threaten, the cops, he was accused of selling "loose cigarettes". Think about that for a second not only was it determined he wasn't doing so at the time, but it doesn't even occur to go WTF , you are arresting this guy for what????

    It's like your mind can't get past the incident to get to the wider issue., the root cause. And moreover you think the reaction of some blacks is so foreign? Only way I can describe imagine if OJ verdict was basically every verdict for whites, do you not think that would boil over. It never occurs to look at these people humanistically, never. It's not the single instance of Brown it's the perpetuation of disenfranchisement, systematic denial, and basic dehumanization of the people in those communities that leads to the action. It's not about a cop killing a black teen.
    12-13-2014 09:54 PM
  24. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Nope, its not about one incident...it's about forming an opinion, and attributing said opinion towards EVERY incident, regardless of outcome, logic or evidence. Put on your tin foil hat! BRAIN SCANS!!!
    12-13-2014 10:11 PM
  25. acadia11's Avatar
    Nope, its not about one incident...it's about forming an opinion, and attributing said opinion towards EVERY incident, regardless of outcome, logic or evidence. Put on your tin foil hat! BRAIN SCANS!!!
    Exactly, you didn't hear a word I said. Im talking about for them, those people, it's not about one incident. Not your opinion of them. Your pretty much surmised my point right there, it's not about how you feel about them, or them forming an opinion about an incident. It's the fact that their opinion is repeatedly ignored, your response exemplified it... It's the cumulative effect of that frustration. It's not about incidents or logic or evidence. Again it goes back to my point for you, being white, evidence and logic is what determined your innocents or guilt, kind of, really had more to do with class, but for blacks this is not how justice evolved in the uS. Justice was not historically handed out based on simple evidence and logic.

    As I stated prior it's nothing you could comprehend because there are things being white you don't have to think about or deal with , it's that simple. The world operates in fairer manner because you are white so you assume it is that way for everyone and you can not see it is not that way for others. This is the point that doesn't seem to resonate with you.
    Last edited by acadia11; 12-14-2014 at 06:54 AM.
    DS1331 likes this.
    12-13-2014 11:01 PM
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