1. kilofoxtrot's Avatar
    Of course conservatives deny human activity is responsible climate change....... of course.

    Follow the money... it never lies.

    I apologize hydro..... you don't have a choice on your position. Your hands are tied.

    Why is the climate change debate a political one in the United States?-frack.png

    Why is the climate change debate a political one in the United States?-top-contributions.jpg
    10-09-2014 09:48 PM
  2. hydrogen3's Avatar
    Utopianism substitutes glorious predictions and unachievable promises for knowledge, science, and reason, while laying claim to them all. We now have the progressives "climate change" playbook and we know what they are doing, and we are using it against them. Unlike the Democrats though, we aren't out to destroy our society, we are out to save it..
    Last edited by hydrogen3; 10-10-2014 at 07:57 AM.
    10-10-2014 07:44 AM
  3. kch50428's Avatar
    Of course conservatives deny human activity is responsible climate change....... of course.

    Follow the money... it never lies.

    I apologize hydro..... you don't have a choice on your position. Your hands are tied.
    While you're "following the money" please take a moment to look into Tom Steyer, George Soros...and a host of other moneybag Liberals that make the Koch brothers look like pauper pikers in comparison, and until you want those voices silenced like you want the Koch brothers silenced, you have no leg to stand on.

    Democrats funded by billionaires complain about Republicans funded by billionaires - The Washington Post
    Last edited by kch50428; 10-10-2014 at 08:46 AM.
    hydrogen3 likes this.
    10-10-2014 08:33 AM
  4. Amamba's Avatar
    Of course conservatives deny human activity is responsible climate change....... of course.

    Follow the money...
    OK so what is your proposal ? How do you think we should deal with this problem in the real world, without pushing our manufacturing abroad with resulting increase in net global pollution ? How realistic is it for the West to be able to force China, India, Brazil, Russia and a whole bunch of other countries to clean up their act (and give up their strategic advantages of cheap labor and cheap energy, quite possibly ending their economic growth spur) ? Does the West even have this kind of clout anymore ? Or will the developing countries just give it the finger & grab as much of the pie as they can ?

    Are you prepared to deal with the snowball effect of massive inflation and job losses ?

    During the automotive bailout of 2008, it was estimated that allowing GM and Chrysler to fold would create a chain reaction with automotive suppliers failing and taking down Ford with them, quite likely also causing he closures of Japanese and German plants from Michigan to Tennessee, with roughly 2 million well paying jobs lost in the Midwest alone, plus a massive impact on Silicon Valley (I was actually quite shocked to learn that the automotive industry in Detroit was the biggest customer of California microchip companies). Now that was just one industry in just one country.

    It's easy to feel all righteous saying all the right words and slogans. Much harder to come up with a real solution.

    Honestly, both sides of the debate appear clueless, in eir own unique ways,
    Just_Me_D likes this.
    10-10-2014 09:13 AM
  5. kilofoxtrot's Avatar
    I don't have the qualifications to answer that question Amambe.

    But I do know that if humanity collectively can not come up with the solution, it will be forced upon us.... brutally and without mercy.
    A895 and Not Quite Right like this.
    10-10-2014 09:26 AM
  6. kch50428's Avatar
    But I do know that if humanity collectively can not come up with the solution, it will be forced upon us.... brutally and without mercy.
    That's already being done... and I for one am in the resistance movement...
    hydrogen3 and Just_Me_D like this.
    10-10-2014 09:28 AM
  7. kilofoxtrot's Avatar
    While you're "following the money" please take a moment to look into Tom Steyer, George Soros...and a host of other moneybag Liberals that make the Koch brothers look like pauper pikers in comparison, and until you want those voices silenced like you want the Koch brothers silenced, you have no leg to stand on.

    Democrats funded by billionaires complain about Republicans funded by billionaires - The Washington Post
    I am all for taking the money out of politics. In regard to global warming..... Republicans are on the hook of oil companies big time.

    It goes both ways on a host of other things, but on this subject matter alone, oil has bought the republican party.
    10-10-2014 09:28 AM
  8. kilofoxtrot's Avatar
    That's already being done... and I for one am in the resistance movement...
    Its your right..... I can respect that. Well said on your part.
    10-10-2014 09:30 AM
  9. kch50428's Avatar
    I am all for taking the money out of politics. In regard to global warming..... Republicans are on the hook of oil companies big time.

    It goes both ways on a host of other things, but on this subject matter alone, oil has bought the republican party.
    Tom Steyer... buying the other side... Republicans are a paltry attempt at "equal time" to Steyer...
    Last edited by kch50428; 10-10-2014 at 09:42 AM.
    hydrogen3 likes this.
    10-10-2014 09:31 AM
  10. Amamba's Avatar
    I don't have the qualifications to answer that question Amambe.

    But I do know that if humanity collectively can not come up with the solution, it will be forced upon us.... brutally and without mercy.
    It can't. There's no "humanity". There's a mix of various civilizations with different structure, mentality and goals. Rich people want their profits, poor people want a roof over their head and a meal on their table. Billions of people live in abject poverty and if they had to chose between improving their economic situation or living on a clean planet, guess what the choice would be. Make a search on pollution in China, look at the photos - do you seriously think we can solve this problem by handing them even more of our manufacturing ? Or do you think the environment conscious Germans will stop buying gas from Russia, which is extracted with little regard to the environment in Siberia ? No, they want to be warm in the winter.

    Can more be done to reduce pollution ? Sure. But it will be a slow and steady process with some reverses.
    Just_Me_D likes this.
    10-10-2014 10:00 AM
  11. A895's Avatar
    It can't. There's no "humanity". There's a mix of various civilizations with different structure, mentality and goals. Rich people want their profits, poor people want a roof over their head and a meal on their table. Billions of people live in abject poverty and if they had to chose between improving their economic situation or living on a clean planet, guess what the choice would be. Make a search on pollution in China, look at the photos - do you seriously think we can solve this problem by handing them even more of our manufacturing ? Or do you think the environment conscious Germans will stop buying gas from Russia, which is extracted with little regard to the environment in Siberia ? No, they want to be warm in the winter.

    Can more be done to reduce pollution ? Sure. But it will be a slow and steady process with some reverses.
    I'm sorry but you are asking stuff none of us can answer. The point of this thread is why politics are intertwined with global warming.

    Your questions can't possibly be answered by any of us.

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    10-10-2014 10:14 AM
  12. A895's Avatar
    Utopianism substitutes glorious predictions and unachievable promises for knowledge, science, and reason, while laying claim to them all. We now have the progressives "climate change" playbook and we know what they are doing, and we are using it against them. Unlike the Democrats though, we aren't out to destroy our society, we are out to save it..
    Doubtful, based on this thread alone.

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    10-10-2014 10:15 AM
  13. Amamba's Avatar
    I'm sorry but you are asking stuff none of us can answer. The point of this thread is why politics are intertwined with global warming.

    Your questions can't possibly be answered by any of us.

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    I am not asking any questions. Kilofoxtrot and especially Not Quite Right changed this thread into "we must admit the problem and do something drastic now" debate. I am merely showinf
    10-10-2014 10:41 AM
  14. Amamba's Avatar
    HTF do you edit a post on iPad ?

    Anyway, I was merely showing what the biggest problem is. And that the politicians from both sides of the debate refuse to acknowledge it. The ultra Reps decry the whole Global Warming as a hoax and some worldwide conspiracy (and look really stupid jn the process) while the Left treat it as some kind of a sacred cow, tend to ignore or downplay the importance of Earth natural cycles, blame everything on greedy Corporations and their pet Conservatives, and completely refuse to raise the debate on the questions I wrote about, or admit tat
    10-10-2014 10:48 AM
  15. Amamba's Avatar
    ... Fat fingered it again, sorry... Or admit that there's little popular support for the kind of the drastic measures required to do what they preach, even if the Conservatives and Corporations step aside, and that it will all likely result in the economic collapse in the West and increased net global pollution.

    As to why it's so politicized in the US - well, the US politics had become a real circus in the last 20 years, and the crazy GW related theories are just one of the many idiotic things the opposing parties come up with to advance their agendas. Both parties (or rather coalitions, as neither of the two main US parties is really politically homogeneous) have their own clowns and crazy theories, for every Rush Limbaugh there's a Jesse Jackson or Michael Moore. The American politics are a mess, but I suspect it's not much better elsewhere.
    10-10-2014 11:00 AM
  16. Not Quite Right's Avatar
    I must bow out of this thread with reference to a favorite quote of mine ...

    “The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it.”

    - Alberto Brandolini
    A895 and Les74 like this.
    10-10-2014 11:19 AM
  17. Amamba's Avatar
    I must bow out of this thread with reference to a favorite quote of mine ...

    “The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it.”

    - Alberto Brandolini
    In other words, you have good intentions and self-righteous slogans but no solutions, and the real issue is more complex than you're willing to admit.

    Welcome to the real world.

    Peace
    Just_Me_D likes this.
    10-10-2014 11:26 AM
  18. Not Quite Right's Avatar
    In other words, you have good intentions and self-righteous slogans but no solutions, and the real issue is more complex than you're willing to admit.

    Welcome to the real world.

    Peace
    Nope I'm just as tired of your "I'm holier than thou, just playing devils advocate, but not really contributing anything" attitude. You're just as bad if not worse than the ignorant. At least the ignorant have the excuse that they took the wrong stance because they didn't know any better. You don't get that luxury when you simply throw your hands up in defeat because a problem is too complex. The first step to solving this problem would be to do others here & myself have already attempted to do. That would be to educate , and enlightened as many as possible to this issue, then focus on the arrogant assholes that refuse to believe a problem even exists. Only once everyone, or at least a majority is on the same page could one hope to achieve a feasible solution to this problem ...
    Why is the climate change debate a political one in the United States?-10406521_10152731530651250_4772522254709158452_n.jpg
    A895 and Les74 like this.
    10-10-2014 12:42 PM
  19. kch50428's Avatar
    Nope I'm just as tired of your "I'm holier than thou, just playing devils advocate, but not really contributing anything" attitude. You're just as bad if not worse than the ignorant.
    What a pot/kettle moment...
    hydrogen3 and Just_Me_D like this.
    10-10-2014 12:47 PM
  20. Not Quite Right's Avatar
    What a pot/kettle moment...

    "When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser." -- Socrates
    A895 likes this.
    10-10-2014 12:56 PM
  21. hydrogen3's Avatar
    Nope I'm just as tired of your "I'm holier than thou, just playing devils advocate, but not really contributing anything" attitude. You're just as bad if not worse than the ignorant. At least the ignorant have the excuse that they took the wrong stance because they didn't know any better. You don't get that luxury when you simply throw your hands up in defeat because a problem is too complex. The first step to solving this problem would be to do others here & myself have already attempted to do. That would be to educate , and enlightened as many as possible to this issue, then focus on the arrogant assholes that refuse to believe a problem even exists. Only once everyone, or at least a majority is on the same page could one hope to achieve a feasible solution to this problem ...
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Really sad, If we look objectively at what the progressives have done to America with their corruption, divisive race-baiting and poverty-pimping, and promotion of socialism, one would believe that we now live in an alternative universe. How corrupt you ask? Here are useful idiots attempting to nullify the Constitution’s Second Amendment, disarming the law-abiding American public, to create a larger pool of victims in need of big government law enforcement and control.

    Now they want to give control to-http://www.un.org/en/globalissues/peacesecurity/
    Last edited by hydrogen3; 10-10-2014 at 01:24 PM.
    10-10-2014 01:11 PM
  22. Amamba's Avatar
    Again, you're dodging the issue. Even if everybody in the US agreed that global warming is real (which I believe it is) and that it's primarily driven by human activity (which I am not convinced of), then you are asking people to chos
    10-10-2014 01:27 PM
  23. Amamba's Avatar
    I apologize, keep hitting the wrong buttons.

    Anyway, even if most Americans agreed that the Global Warming is caused by human activity, it's naive to think that most will be willing to give up their livelihood and that of their children to fix the problem. It's even more naive to think they can influence the rest of the world, or that people in the developing countries will choose poverty in a cleaner world over improvement of their living standards in a polluted world. The worse position in life you start from, the more desperate you are for any improvement at any cost. As I said multiple times, restricting the pollution in the western world to the point it's no longer competitively possible to make things there will force all manufacturing into developing countries and raise the overall pollution levels.

    Here's how you fix this, after everyone in the West agrees that drastic measures need to be done now

    - impose extremely high tariffs so that only clean producing countries can sell their product here

    - forbid companies from freely moving funds outside of Western economic zone

    - build cr@pload of nuclear stations in Europe and in the meantime buy tons of blankets for the next 10 winters without Russian gas

    There's still this little issue of impending global economic collapse, but I am sur
    10-10-2014 01:42 PM
  24. Amamba's Avatar
    ... I am sure you and I can figure a way to deal with it. Perhaps by suspending political parties until the global warming is over.

    Welcome to the United Clean Earth Alliance !

    Now if you have better ideas, i'd love to hear them. Can't wait, really.
    10-10-2014 01:45 PM
  25. hydrogen3's Avatar
    Again, you're dodging the issue. Even if everybody in the US agreed that global warming is real (which I believe it is) and that it's primarily driven by human activity (which I am not convinced of), then you are asking people to chos
    If global warming is not caused by Human activity... Why do we need to do anything? I'm confused...
    10-10-2014 01:46 PM
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