1. hydrogen3's Avatar
    Actually it sounds a lot like the right wing urban legend and is most likely not even true. Regardless if you have a handful of people doing this it is helping many more. The right is so infatuated with the idea that one person somewhere is gaming the welfare system that they are willing to humiliate and degrade the millions of working poor to find him. Walmart is your welfare state. They don't pay a living wage so the taxpayer subsidizes those 6 lazy fat kids that have never worked a day in their life. You can't have it both ways, either force companies to pay a living wage or embrace subsidizing the businesses by paying for their employees food and healthcare. Pick one, you can't have them both.
    NEITHER... Should be subsidized ... And neither should health care...
    10-21-2014 08:50 AM
  2. sanibel's Avatar
    As for the minimum wage, it will cause two things: A. By setting a price floor on labor, the Feds are causing the market to go out of equilibrium. Because some low skill workers aren't worth 10.10 an hour(or even 7.50, in the case of many farm workers) the minimum wage causes higher unemployment...
    Myth: Raising the minimum wage costs jobs.

    This is one place where conservative ideology is clearly refuted by looking at what actually happens. When you have states next to each other, and one raises the minimum wage while the other does not, you can compare the results.

    It might seem obvious to people that raising wages will cause companies to hire fewer people. But not when you think it through. Well-run companies employ the right number of people to handle the demand for the goods or services they produce. They don’t just have extra people sitting around reading the newspaper, who they will lay off if they have to pay a couple of dollars more an hour.

    Picture a store with only one cashier and 20 people in line. Pretty soon people get impatient and leave. A sensible manager is going to put the right number of cashiers at the checkout lanes to handle the number of customers in the store.

    In Australia the minimum wage is $16.68 and the unemployment rate is 5.8 percent. In the U.S. the minimum wage is $7.25 and unemployment is down to 6.7 percent, but is falling largely due to people leaving the labor force because they just can’t find work. This is not to say that the unemployment rates in Australia and the U.S. are different because of the difference in the minimum wage, but it does show that the high Australian minimum wage has hardly crashed Australia’s economy.

    Myth: Raising the minimum wage hurts small businesses.

    Conservatives like New Jersey Governor Chris Christie say that raising the minimum wage would hurt small business owners. The truth is that most minimum-wage workers do not work for small businesses. According to Think Progress: “The majority (66 percent) of low‐wage workers are not employed by small businesses, but rather by large corporations with over 100 employees.” Also “The three largest employers of minimum wage workers [are], Walmart, Yum! Brands (Pizza Hut, Taco Bell, and KFC), and McDonald’s.”

    Last February, BusinessWeek debunked the “hurts small business” claim, writing, “a growing number of small business advocates support a hike.”

    “That includes dozens of business groups and networks composed primarily of small business owners such as the Main Street Alliance, the National Latino Farmers & Ranchers Trade Association, and the Greater New York Chamber of Commerce. ‘Our women [business owners] who pay a living wage have an advantage over their larger counterparts who don’t,’ says Margot Dorfman, chief executive officer of the U.S. Women’s Chamber of Commerce, an organization with 500,000 members, three-quarters of whom are small business owners. ‘Whether Obama’s proposal is high enough or the time frame is fast enough is the question.'”

    The should-be-obvious reason? “If the customer base is undermined because wages are so low, they feel it directly.”
    A895 and Les74 like this.
    10-21-2014 08:56 AM
  3. the_tech_eater's Avatar
    Myth: Raising the minimum wage costs jobs.

    This is one place where conservative ideology is clearly refuted by looking at what actually happens. When you have states next to each other, and one raises the minimum wage while the other does not, you can compare the results.

    It might seem obvious to people that raising wages will cause companies to hire fewer people. But not when you think it through. Well-run companies employ the right number of people to handle the demand for the goods or services they produce. They dont just have extra people sitting around reading the newspaper, who they will lay off if they have to pay a couple of dollars more an hour.

    Picture a store with only one cashier and 20 people in line. Pretty soon people get impatient and leave. A sensible manager is going to put the right number of cashiers at the checkout lanes to handle the number of customers in the store.

    In Australia the minimum wage is $16.68 and the unemployment rate is 5.8 percent. In the U.S. the minimum wage is $7.25 and unemployment is down to 6.7 percent, but is falling largely due to people leaving the labor force because they just cant find work. This is not to say that the unemployment rates in Australia and the U.S. are different because of the difference in the minimum wage, but it does show that the high Australian minimum wage has hardly crashed Australias economy.

    Myth: Raising the minimum wage hurts small businesses.

    Conservatives like New Jersey Governor Chris Christie say that raising the minimum wage would hurt small business owners. The truth is that most minimum-wage workers do not work for small businesses. According to Think Progress: The majority (66 percent) of low‐wage workers are not employed by small businesses, but rather by large corporations with over 100 employees. Also The three largest employers of minimum wage workers [are], Walmart, Yum! Brands (Pizza Hut, Taco Bell, and KFC), and McDonalds.

    Last February, BusinessWeek debunked the hurts small business claim, writing, a growing number of small business advocates support a hike.

    That includes dozens of business groups and networks composed primarily of small business owners such as the Main Street Alliance, the National Latino Farmers & Ranchers Trade Association, and the Greater New York Chamber of Commerce. Our women [business owners] who pay a living wage have an advantage over their larger counterparts who dont, says Margot Dorfman, chief executive officer of the U.S. Womens Chamber of Commerce, an organization with 500,000 members, three-quarters of whom are small business owners. Whether Obamas proposal is high enough or the time frame is fast enough is the question.'

    The should-be-obvious reason? If the customer base is undermined because wages are so low, they feel it directly.
    It still puts the market out of equilibrium.
    10-21-2014 09:00 AM
  4. Ledsteplin's Avatar
    Sorry man, I'm not reading your national enquirer links.

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    Afraid of the truth?


    Sent from my ancient but trustworthy iPhone 5.
    hydrogen3 and the_tech_eater like this.
    10-21-2014 09:00 AM
  5. hydrogen3's Avatar
    10-21-2014 09:03 AM
  6. the_tech_eater's Avatar
    Here's something: right now I'm the only employee at a small business. I am paid well above the minimum wage. We are currently looking for a second employee that will be under me, and they will get paid minimum wage. That's all the business can afford. So if Uncle Sam tells us " you have to pay this person more than you can afford." That will absolutely cause there to be one less job available(and we have multiple people willing to work at the current minimum wage). This business is in a price taker market(if you don't understand what that means, you have no right to be having this discussion). So we can't just raise our prices to accommodate having to pay the second employee more than we can afford. What do you pro higher minimum wagers say about that?
    There is a good reason to believe that there are many other businesses in the same situation as the one I work for.
    hydrogen3 likes this.
    10-21-2014 09:12 AM
  7. A895's Avatar
    Those are just a few. And not surprising they're white. What about the blacks and other minorities who commit welfare fraud? This seems like it's racist to me!



    Sounds like you're playing the race card again and it needs to stop. It doesn't matter if one is a minority or not, if they fraud the welfare system they are a criminal, period end of story. As a result they should be treated as a criminal. You're the one saying minorities are the ones committing the fraud, not me.
    I am saying that isn't fraud unless it is in large quantities like what kilfoxtrot posted, it shouldn't be fraud.

    And be truthful, what group of people do you think would be arrested more often for welfare fraud? Not race card just a fact of life in America.

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    10-21-2014 09:45 AM
  8. A895's Avatar
    So..minorities are the only ones committing welfare fraud?? You are a silly man.....
    Of course not, but who would be arrested first the black man or the white man for welfare fraud, people already think minorities make up the majority of welfare users already when that isn't true.

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    10-21-2014 09:46 AM
  9. the_tech_eater's Avatar
    Of course not, but who would be arrested first the black man or the white man for welfare fraud, people already think minorities make up the majority of welfare users already when that isn't true.

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    Pulling that race card again. Get a life.
    10-21-2014 09:48 AM
  10. hydrogen3's Avatar
    Living wage:

    Myth-President Barack Obama says he'll press Congress to raise the minimum wage in the same way he courted his wife (Scary)

    Truth-living wage to cost taxpayers $218,000 for new government jobs

    Myth-Only teenagers make the minimum wage

    Truth-Raising the minimum wage costs jobs

    Myth-Obama cares about you

    Truth-In the 2014 State of the Union address, President Obama called on Congress to raise the national minimum wage from $7.25 to $10.10 an hour, and soon after signed an Executive Order to raise the minimum wage to $10.10 for the individuals working on new federal service contracts.
    10-21-2014 09:48 AM
  11. A895's Avatar
    It still puts the market out of equilibrium.
    Which is not always a bad thing, equilibrium changes whenever there is am outside externality. You should learn that in high school economics and I am relearning it again in my college MicroEconomics class.

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    10-21-2014 09:50 AM
  12. ItnStln's Avatar
    I am saying that isn't fraud unless it is in large quantities like what kilfoxtrot posted, it shouldn't be fraud.

    And be truthful, what group of people do you think would be arrested more often for welfare fraud? Not race card just a fact of life in America.

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    What you posted is extremely racist, implying that only minorities are arrested for welfare fraud. And no, one case alone justifies it being fraud. It does not have to be, nor should it be, in large quantities. If a person frauds the welfare system out of even one cent, they should be arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law!
    10-21-2014 09:50 AM
  13. hydrogen3's Avatar
    Of course not, but who would be arrested first the black man or the white man for welfare fraud, people already think minorities make up the majority of welfare users already when that isn't true.

    Posted via the iMore App for Android

    Chuckles... You sound like a racist and a bigot..
    the_tech_eater likes this.
    10-21-2014 09:50 AM
  14. A895's Avatar
    Pulling that race card again. Get a life.
    I have a life, full time college student. And you obviously didn't think about what I wrote, you are only (again) reacting.

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    10-21-2014 09:51 AM
  15. the_tech_eater's Avatar
    I have a life, full time college student. And you obviously didn't think about what I wrote, you are only (again) reacting.

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    Yes I did think about it. It's a feeble attempt to use race to back up your point of view, and try to make whites look racist. I'm done talking to you. You are a racist bigot, your whole demeanor screams entitlement. I will not waste my time arguing with a racist bigot. @the rest of you: you would be wise to not argue with this racist bigot.
    10-21-2014 09:53 AM
  16. A895's Avatar
    What you posted is extremely racist, implying that only minorities are arrested for welfare fraud. And no, one case alone justifies it being fraud. It does not have to be, nor should it be, in large quantities. If a person frauds the welfare system out of even one cent, they should be arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law!
    I am going back to what I spent pages explaining to you and everyone else "White Privilege". Don't like don't live in the U.S. but any Urban Black American can tell you that if it came down to it, who would be more likely to be arrested in a black or white situation, the black would more than likely be arrested first.

    Just a fact of life.

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    10-21-2014 09:54 AM
  17. A895's Avatar
    Chuckles... You sound like a racist and a bigot..
    If only I was racist, but alas I am not. But considering we have spent pages going back and forth, many of the comments that you and others have said have been quite ignorant, yet I am the racist. Lol

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    10-21-2014 09:55 AM
  18. A895's Avatar
    Yes I did think about it. It's a feeble attempt to use race to back up your point of view.
    Not it is going back to my original point of White Privilege. But thanks for that analysis.

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    10-21-2014 09:56 AM
  19. ItnStln's Avatar
    Of course not, but who would be arrested first the black man or the white man for welfare fraud, people already think minorities make up the majority of welfare users already when that isn't true.

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    This is extremely racist.
    Pulling that race card again. Get a life.
    Exactly. I'm sick of people pulling the race card.
    the_tech_eater likes this.
    10-21-2014 09:56 AM
  20. A895's Avatar
    Yes I did think about it. It's a feeble attempt to use race to back up your point of view, and try to make whites loon racist. I'm done talking to you. You are a racist bigot, your whole demeanor screams entitlement. I will not waste my time arguing with a racist bigot. @the rest of you: you would be wise to not argue with this racist bigot.
    So you can to calling me names? This is the second time you have insulted me. I can only imagine how you speak to someone in real life. Calling me insulting names multiples times, and I am the one is wrong? Until you get a better argument than "loon, bigot, racist", I will think I'll chalk this up to high school mentality.

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    10-21-2014 09:59 AM
  21. hydrogen3's Avatar
    Again...where is this white privilege you speak of?
    10-21-2014 10:00 AM
  22. A895's Avatar
    This is extremely racist.

    Exactly. I'm sick of people pulling the race card.
    Alright then, what is racist about my statement?

    http://www.americanprogress.org/issu...united-states/

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    10-21-2014 10:01 AM
  23. the_tech_eater's Avatar
    So you can to calling me names? This is the second time you have insulted me. I can only imagine how you speak to someone in real life. Calling me insulting names multiples times, and I am the one is wrong? Until you get a better argument than "loon, bigot, racist", I will think I'll chalk this up to high school mentality.

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    "Loon" was a spelling error. Sorry. I fixed it. And no, i am very respectful for people that are respectful. I don't tolerate racism. And you think it ok for you to call us racist, but when I rightly call you racist, you say it's insulting, and high school mentality.
    10-21-2014 10:01 AM
  24. A895's Avatar
    Again...where is this white privilege you speak of?
    In everyday life. Until you have spent years as an urban black american and see injustice and the system itself beat down blacks everyday, you won't see it. But read the link I just posted. It is eye opening.

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    10-21-2014 10:02 AM
  25. ItnStln's Avatar
    Chuckles... You sound like a racist and a bigot..
    But minorities can't be racist #sarcasm.
    Yes I did think about it. It's a feeble attempt to use race to back up your point of view, and try to make whites look racist. I'm done talking to you. You are a racist bigot, your whole demeanor screams entitlement. I will not waste my time arguing with a racist bigot. @the rest of you: you would be wise to not argue with this racist bigot.
    Well written the_tech_eater

    I am going back to what I spent pages explaining to you and everyone else "White Privilege". Don't like don't live in the U.S. but any Urban Black American can tell you that if it came down to it, who would be more likely to be arrested in a black or white situation, the black would more than likely be arrested first.

    Just a fact of life.

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    White Privilege is a myth. Get over blaming the white man for your shortcomings. I've seen white people going to jail for doing the same stuff black guys did, and they only got probation despite having a much longer record.

    If only I was racist, but alas I am not. But considering we have spent pages going back and forth, many of the comments that you and others have said have been quite ignorant, yet I am the racist. Lol

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    I'll say it again, " But minorities can't be racist #sarcasm. " Your postings are racist yet you call whites racist.
    Not it is going back to my original point of White Privilege. But thanks for that analysis.

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    Again, White Privilege is just a myth.
    the_tech_eater likes this.
    10-21-2014 10:03 AM
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