1. A895's Avatar
    So you're saying there was no hate crimes against white Americans ? That's BS.
    Don't put words in my posts, I never said that. I asked a question.


    All it shows is that when there's black on white violence, no hate crime charges are usually brought up. The system is biased.
    The system by nature shouldn't be, but by history, what group has been subject of hate crime the most over the past 150+ years?

    Do you remember what actually happened at Ferguson? Tensions were sky high there and still are.


    A black boy in Detroit is playing chicken with traffic and gets hit by a pickup truck. The 54 year old white pickup truck driver gets out to check on the boy, is being beaten into a coma by a mob of black men shouting racial slurs (in the presence of many witnesses), spends days in a coma and weeks in a hospital, no hate crime charges are brought up against any of the attackers (there was, however, a charge of "ethnic intimidation" that doesn't equal hate crime).
    Yeah, seeing someone being hit by a pickup truck will cause tempers to flare. I remember seeing the video in question, it was horrific.


    The problem is not with race or skin color. It's with mentality. The only way out of this mess is to try and change the mentality of some people. Both black and white.
    You said it perfectly, but you can't undo decades of hardships from an entire race, black people were brought here against their will, subjugated for a long time, segregated against, and now are being thrown in jail en masse by those very same race of people (look up jail stats). Then black people who do well in life, they are less likely to be hired despite having the me qualifications as whites, and are least likely to get a promotion. To change that you would have to have a magic spell. You can't change culture. Not one as large and divers as America's anyways.
    10-16-2014 12:44 AM
  2. A895's Avatar
    No, if the race was the driving factor in the attack, it's a hate crime. As simple as that. Attacking a white person because you're angry at Ferguson is a hate crime, no matter how you spin it. Attacking a black person because you're angry at the wave of black violence is a hate crime, as well. Attacking anyone because of their skin color is a hate crime - that's what the law said, the last time I read it. If there's a proof that race was the main, or one of the main factors in the attack, it's a hate crime. That's the standard that is applied to the white-on-black crime, the same standard should be applied to the black-on-white, asian-on-hispanic, or gay-on-straight crime. Nobody should be getting a special treatment, and no group should be singled out.
    If only if it were that simple.
    10-16-2014 12:46 AM
  3. Amamba's Avatar
    Don't put words in my posts, I never said that. I asked a question.
    Which is very hard to answer because there was no hate crime charges brought up.

    It's like saying that there was no hate crimes against the Jews in Nazi Germany because no Germans were ever charged with them by the regime.

    The system by nature shouldn't be, but by history, what group has been subject of hate crime the most over the past 150+ years?
    And what group has been murdered, raped and robbed the most by what other group in the past 60+ years ? Except that bringing this fact up has been a taboo for any mainstream politician or news outlet.

    And what does this have to do with people who came to the US from Poland, Yugoslavia or Russia in the last 40 years ? AFAIK these were the only groups of recent European immigrants allowed into US. Yet they are being subjected to "resentment" just the same, based only on the color of their skin.

    Do you remember what actually happened at Ferguson? Tensions were sky high there and still are.
    Do you remember what happened in New Orleans, when the armed gangs of inner city thugs were roaming the streets raping, robbing and murdering at will ? There was quite some tension there as well. Would you say that an unprovoked attack on a black person there would not be a hate crime ?

    Yeah, seeing someone being hit by a pickup truck will cause tempers to flare. I remember seeing the video in question, it was horrific.




    You said it perfectly, but you can't undo decades of hardships from an entire race, black people were brought here against their will, subjugated for a long time, segregated against, and now are being thrown in jail en masse by those very same race of people (look up jail stats). Then black people who do well in life, they are less likely to be hired despite having the me qualifications as whites, and are least likely to get a promotion. To change that you would have to have a magic spell. You can't change culture. Not one as large and divers as America's anyways.

    Look up the FBI violent crime stats and they put the jail stats in a whole new light.

    As to hiring bias - I am sure it exists. Having a few friends and relatives who own small businesses, I can tell you that any group of people who has a special status under the law will find it harder to get hired. If a newhire white guy doesn't perform to expectations, he'll get sacked and that's it. If a minority (racial, sexual or gender) doesn't perform and get fired, they can and often will sue for discrimination and at the very least cost you tens of thousands of dollars. As a small business owner, you have to carefully access any job applicant's potential risks vs benefits. Because even one lawsuit can put you out of business and ruin your life.

    My cousin, who owns a body shop, once fired a black employee caught stealing. The guy showed up a week later with a lawyer, threatening to file a discrimination lawsuit. Even though there was an indisputable proof of theft, still cost my cousin several grand to defend himself. Had there not been the proof, he'd be out big, big money. A white, straight, male employee would not likely even be able to find a lawyer willing to take up the case. So, why on earth would he ever want to expose himself to this kind of risk again ?

    As to promotions - if I were a minority my career would be far more satisfying, I worked in several large corporations and being a woman or a minority, with all other things being equal, almost guaranteed a speedy promotion. Has been that way for the last 20+ years. There's even a joking term for a white guy being passed over for promotion in favor of a woman / minority - "he got whiteballed". You know, white and with balls...
    10-16-2014 09:16 AM
  4. kilofoxtrot's Avatar
    Louis CK - I enjoy being white.

    (NSFW)

    sanibel and A895 like this.
    10-16-2014 09:43 AM
  5. A895's Avatar
    Which is very hard to answer because there was no hate crime charges brought up.

    It's like saying that there was no hate crimes against the Jews in Nazi Germany because no Germans were ever charged with them by the regime.
    That is not what I mean, you keep missing what I am saying. I said has there been any high profile black on white hate crimes?


    And what group has been murdered, raped and robbed the most by what other group in the past 60+ years ? Except that bringing this fact up has been a taboo for any mainstream politician or news outlet.
    You are missing my point again, what group has been subject of actual slavery, and segregation to even having black codes to stop us from having basic citizen rights?

    And what does this have to do with people who came to the US from Poland, Yugoslavia or Russia in the last 40 years ? AFAIK these were the only groups of recent European immigrants allowed into US. Yet they are being subjected to "resentment" just the same, based only on the color of their skin.
    The same resentment black people face all the time.



    Do you remember what happened in New Orleans, when the armed gangs of inner city thugs were roaming the streets raping, robbing and murdering at will ? There was quite some tension there as well. Would you say that an unprovoked attack on a black person there would not be a hate crime ?
    Two different situations, and have no clue what you are on about.




    Look up the FBI violent crime stats and they put the jail stats in a whole new light.

    As to hiring bias - I am sure it exists. Having a few friends and relatives who own small businesses, I can tell you that any group of people who has a special status under the law will find it harder to get hired. If a newhire white guy doesn't perform to expectations, he'll get sacked and that's it. If a minority (racial, sexual or gender) doesn't perform and get fired, they can and often will sue for discrimination and at the very least cost you tens of thousands of dollars. As a small business owner, you have to carefully access any job applicant's potential risks vs benefits. Because even one lawsuit can put you out of business and ruin your life.

    My cousin, who owns a body shop, once fired a black employee caught stealing. The guy showed up a week later with a lawyer, threatening to file a discrimination lawsuit. Even though there was an indisputable proof of theft, still cost my cousin several grand to defend himself. Had there not been the proof, he'd be out big, big money. A white, straight, male employee would not likely even be able to find a lawyer willing to take up the case. So, why on earth would he ever want to expose himself to this kind of risk again ?

    As to promotions - if I were a minority my career would be far more satisfying, I worked in several large corporations and being a woman or a minority, with all other things being equal, almost guaranteed a speedy promotion. Has been that way for the last 20+ years. There's even a joking term for a white guy being passed over for promotion in favor of a woman / minority - "he got whiteballed". You know, white and with balls...
    A stats sheet does not put jail stats in light, and you are basically saying, black people are special under the law and shouldn't get special treatment, when 9/10 black people in reality do not get any special treatment, if they do it will be news to me. The system was and is still not fair to all races. It would be nice if it was, but it isn't.
    10-16-2014 09:50 AM
  6. kilofoxtrot's Avatar
    As to promotions - if I were a minority my career would be far more satisfying, I worked in several large corporations and being a woman or a minority, with all other things being equal, almost guaranteed a speedy promotion. Has been that way for the last 20+ years. There's even a joking term for a white guy being passed over for promotion in favor of a woman / minority - "he got whiteballed". You know, white and with balls...
    Wow 20+ years vs 300+ years of far worse.

    You can't beat a dog its entire life and one day say, "Hey buddy, here's a steak for ya."

    The jewish people (and rightfully so) say, "Never forget." But we want AA's to "get over it" because the past is the past.

    Again, I do not condone acts of violence. But I understand the resentment. I totally get it.
    A895 likes this.
    10-16-2014 10:06 AM
  7. Amamba's Avatar
    Well, then we should try to make it better, singling out any group of people for either discrimination or special treatment is morally wrong and only serves to make the problems worse. You can't hold every white person responsible for what some other people did a 100 years ago just because they have the same skin color. Just as you can't hold every black person responsible for the black crime wave of the last three generations. People should be treated based on their personal actions, and treated equally, and it's especially unforgivable and wrong for the government to be biased, in any way.
    10-16-2014 10:10 AM
  8. Amamba's Avatar
    Wow 20+ years vs 300+ years of far worse.

    You can't beat a dog its entire life and one day say, "Hey buddy, here's a steak for ya."

    The jewish people (and rightfully so) say, "Never forget." But we want AA's to "get over it" because the past is the past.

    Again, I do not condone acts of violence. But I understand the resentment. I totally get it.
    That 20+ (actually it's been going on for 40+) years is whole of my life, and for most of the people alive today. Besides, what moral right do you have to hold ALL white people responsible for what some groups of white people did several centuries ago ? A Pole, a Finn, a German, an Austrian arriving in the US in the XX century would have no historic connection with slavery, none whatsoever. To blame them for what French, English and Dutch descendants did, based solely on the color of their skin, is pure racism.
    10-16-2014 10:17 AM
  9. kilofoxtrot's Avatar
    I once got into a heated discussion with a person who thought that "The United States is the land of equal opportunity." was the same thing as "The United States is the land of opportunity."

    I think we can agree that the 2nd phrase is the correct one.

    Children born into poverty are a 100 yards behind the starting line in the race to an education. Our society tries to make up for it way too late IMO. Make things even when the race starts, and you don't have to worry about who wins at the end because their merits speak for themselves.

    Breaking the chain starts at the beginning, not at the end.
    A895 likes this.
    10-16-2014 10:19 AM
  10. kilofoxtrot's Avatar
    what moral right do you have to hold ALL white people responsible for what some groups of white people did several centuries ago ?
    I don't hold all white people responsible, its not about responsibility at all ..... I understand the resentment.

    But hey... this is coming from a white guy......... you can't even hurt my feelings.
    A895 likes this.
    10-16-2014 10:27 AM
  11. Amamba's Avatar
    I don't hold all white people responsible, its not about responsibility at all ..... I understand the resentment.

    But hey... this is coming from a white guy......... you can't even hurt my feelings.
    I am really not trying to hurt anyone's feelings.

    My family, on both sides, originated from Central and Eastern Europe, they all came to the US in the XX century. I have no connection to slave trade, voting discrimination, KKK or Jim Crow laws. The countries in which my ancestors lived since medieval times had no overseas colonies, heck most didn't even exist until the end of WW1. Yet somehow a racial bias against me is justified because some other white people, from a different country, speaking different language, and as alien to my ancestors as any black person, did something bad 150 years ago ? What an utter BS.
    10-16-2014 10:44 AM
  12. kilofoxtrot's Avatar
    I am really not trying to hurt anyone's feelings.

    My family, on both sides, originated from Central and Eastern Europe, they all came to the US in the XX century. I have no connection to slave trade, voting discrimination, KKK or Jim Crow laws. The countries in which my ancestors lived since medieval times had no overseas colonies, heck most didn't even exist until the end of WW1. Yet somehow a racial bias against me is justified because some other white people, from a different country, speaking different language, and as alien to my ancestors as any black person, did something bad 150 years ago ? What an utter BS.
    Now you know how they feel.

    I understand your resentment too.
    A895 likes this.
    10-16-2014 10:56 AM
  13. A895's Avatar
    Louis CK - I enjoy being white.

    (NSFW)


    So many people are going to miss his hidden point. He is hilarious though. I love comedians who can send a message with their humor and Louis CK is fantastic at it.
    10-16-2014 11:15 AM
  14. A895's Avatar
    Well, then we should try to make it better, singling out any group of people for either discrimination or special treatment is morally wrong and only serves to make the problems worse. You can't hold every white person responsible for what some other people did a 100 years ago just because they have the same skin color. Just as you can't hold every black person responsible for the black crime wave of the last three generations. People should be treated based on their personal actions, and treated equally, and it's especially unforgivable and wrong for the government to be biased, in any way.
    Yet time and again the government has been mistreating minorities for decades, yet you say we get special treatment. Just like you can't hold everyone responsible for some people looting in Ferguson, double standards I see.
    10-16-2014 11:17 AM
  15. A895's Avatar
    That 20+ (actually it's been going on for 40+) years is whole of my life, and for most of the people alive today. Besides, what moral right do you have to hold ALL white people responsible for what some groups of white people did several centuries ago ? A Pole, a Finn, a German, an Austrian arriving in the US in the XX century would have no historic connection with slavery, none whatsoever. To blame them for what French, English and Dutch descendants did, based solely on the color of their skin, is pure racism.
    So are you saying we should suck it up and keep it moving? Take one on the chin?
    10-16-2014 11:18 AM
  16. A895's Avatar
    I am really not trying to hurt anyone's feelings.

    My family, on both sides, originated from Central and Eastern Europe, they all came to the US in the XX century. I have no connection to slave trade, voting discrimination, KKK or Jim Crow laws. The countries in which my ancestors lived since medieval times had no overseas colonies, heck most didn't even exist until the end of WW1. Yet somehow a racial bias against me is justified because some other white people, from a different country, speaking different language, and as alien to my ancestors as any black person, did something bad 150 years ago ? What an utter BS.
    Now you understand what minorities feel, good job.
    10-16-2014 11:19 AM
  17. hydrogen3's Avatar
    Except that today's conservative is yesterday's liberal. The society changes, and many of the values that were considered liberal, even revolutionary a hundred years ago now mainstream. A person with strong religious conviction, anti-gay, anti-socialist, yet supporting voting rights for women and equal treatment of all people regardless of race or religion would be a radical liberal in the XIX century. Women ? Blacks ? Voting ?!

    That's why I hate labels. I don't buy into some mass-tailored set of ideas. I am very liberal / libertarian in my views on marriage, religion or sex, conservative when it comes to defense, welfare and illegal immigration - but I do believe that the government has it's role and that left to their own devices, with no regulation, the private companies will fairly quickly turn this country into a stagnant swamp divided amongst and ruled by monopolies.

    We need another Teddy Roosevelt
    Yesterday's liberal!?! WTH!! I have no clue where that came from. You are 100% incorrect. Rubbish!! Poppycock!!
    10-16-2014 11:21 AM
  18. A895's Avatar
    Yesterday's liberal!?! WTH!! I have no clue where that came from. You are 100% incorrect. Rubbish!! Poppycock!!
    If anyone remembers republicans in the past were more liberal then democrats. I mean republicans pushed and passed the 13th amendment.
    10-16-2014 11:30 AM
  19. ItnStln's Avatar
    If anyone remembers republicans in the past were more liberal then democrats. I mean republicans pushed and passed the 13th amendment.
    You mean the same Republicans that ended slavery?
    hydrogen3 likes this.
    10-16-2014 12:18 PM
  20. HAWK's Avatar
    Play Nice, Be Helpful, and have Respect!



    This means keep the language clean, keep your posts polite, and dont get into arguments over dumb things. If somebody responds to a thread you posted in poor fashion, ignore it, and the moderation team will quickly clean it up (you can always message or email a moderator at any time if you observe anything that is in poor taste/against the rules). Think back to what your parentals and teachers used to lecture - if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all.
    10-16-2014 12:34 PM
  21. A895's Avatar
    You mean the same Republicans that ended slavery?
    The 13th amendment is what abolished slavery. Proposed by Lincoln (republican).
    10-16-2014 12:35 PM
  22. ItnStln's Avatar
    The 13th amendment is what abolished slavery. Proposed by Lincoln (republican).
    Yet you keep bashing the Republicans...
    10-16-2014 02:39 PM
  23. ItnStln's Avatar
    Play Nice, Be Helpful, and have Respect!



    This means keep the language clean, keep your posts polite, and dont get into arguments over dumb things. If somebody responds to a thread you posted in poor fashion, ignore it, and the moderation team will quickly clean it up (you can always message or email a moderator at any time if you observe anything that is in poor taste/against the rules). Think back to what your parentals and teachers used to lecture - if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all.
    Was this meant towards me?
    10-16-2014 02:39 PM
  24. hydrogen3's Avatar
    Yet you keep bashing the Republicans...
    They can't help it... It's in the progressive play book.. Chapter 1 Page 3.
    10-16-2014 02:40 PM
  25. HAWK's Avatar
    Was this meant towards me?
    No just a friendly reminder in general.
    10-16-2014 02:41 PM
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