1. Alli's Avatar
    So we don't hijack yet another thread.

    I'll address a comment made in the "average age" thread about gun owners in the deep south. Everyone here owns a gun. Almost everyone owning a gun has a permit for one. I actually know a few people with guns or rifles (or shotguns), who do not have permits. But people are typically quite proud of their permits. I even know a couple of people with permits who have no gun. Go figure.

    The differences in how easy/difficult it is to obtain the permit from state to state is the big mystery.

    I actually learned to shoot in NY, where you have to take a class and pass a test to get your permit. Here in AL, all you have to do is pay $20.
    01-27-2011 06:55 AM
  2. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Guns are kind of like motorcycles in a way, people who don't ride, many times, have this really illogical and false idea about the whole act of riding...because of things they've read, heard or seen, they go about their personal opinion of it with this generalized and uneducated basis...it usually leads to a very negative view/opinion. The EXACT same can be said about guns...

    Having been a LEO for quite some time now...gun control, safety and security simply comes down to common sense. Many people argue that guns are a negative in a house because children can get ahold of them...it comes down to keeping them secured away from children (or really ANYONE) who should not have access to them (would you keep steak knives just laying about or in easy access areas for kids to get ahold of? They can be JUST as dangerous!)

    Others argue that guns simply present negative situations that would not exist otherwise...but this approach could literally be applied to nearly ANYTHING. Cars for instance...if cars didn't exist, many DUI's, texting/driving deaths, etc etc etc...would not have happened. But is it a legitimate stance to take that cars should not exist to prevent these kind of things? In my view, its absurd.

    I personally have 2 guns...a federally issued Glock 17 9mm (custom handle grip, flashlight attachment and laser site...not that i can use it on the job, lol) and a Mossberg 930 auto loader w/ tactical kit (flashlight and pistol grip). Obviously my Glock is my duty weapon, but i also use it for hobby purposes too (yearly entry into local Glock competition as well as target shooting). The Mossberg is strictly for home defense and has spent 99% of its life in a safe...i think i've fired it at a range about 10 times in the 3 years i've owned it.

    My wife owns a Glock 23 40cal. It's a beast of a Glock, as it is one of their higher end models, but the power is controllable and the fitment of the size of the body in her hand is good for her (as its a smaller body handgun, my 9mm for size comparison is substantially longer and tends to lose balance in a smaller hand). We bought this handgun for her years ago for a great deal, and she has really honed her skill with it since then, she out shoots me sometimes at the range!

    We both have civilian level concealed permits, i have a federal clearance concealed and exposed permit. My wife got her concealed permit because she wants protection convenient to her when she feels it necessary, she also carries police grade pepper spray and a small knife. We arn't paranoid, we're just taking advantage of the right to do so...she's never pulled her gun on a person in her life, but she knows how, and that's what matters to me...if she needed to, some thug with money and rape on his mind would get his head blown off and my wife would come home a little shaken up that night...instead of the alternative.

    People who fear guns, i respect your opinion...my mother and one of my brother's completely stand against having them, and they do not allow them in their home (i even leave my duty weapon in my vehicle in both cases out of respect). But you have to have an educated approach to them before making that decision, don't just base it on the idea that someone shot a little kid accidentally one day in the world so all guns and gun owners are dangerous...those that own guns MUST practice with them, keep them clean and in good repair, and must use common sense...when those criteria are met, they are a very valuable piece of protection and even fun!
    Last edited by SeanHRCC; 01-27-2011 at 07:44 AM.
    boss75 likes this.
    01-27-2011 07:36 AM
  3. JakePleasants's Avatar
    Guns are kind of like motorcycles in a way, people who don't ride, many times, have this really illogical and false idea about the whole act of riding...because of things they've read, heard or seen, they go about their personal opinion of it with this generalized and uneducated basis...it usually leads to a very negative view/opinion. The EXACT same can be said about guns...

    Having been a LEO for quite some time now...gun control, safety and security simply comes down to common sense. Many people argue that guns are a negative in a house because children can get ahold of them...it comes down to keeping them secured away from children (or really ANYONE) who should not have access to them (would you keep steak knives just laying about or in easy access areas for kids to get ahold of? They can be JUST as dangerous!)

    Others argue that guns simply present negative situations that would not exist otherwise...but this approach could literally be applied to nearly ANYTHING. Cars for instance...if cars didn't exist, many DUI's, texting/driving deaths, etc etc etc...would not have happened. But is it a legitimate stance to take that cars should not exist to prevent these kind of things? In my view, its absurd.

    I personally have 2 guns...a federally issued Glock 17 9mm (custom handle grip, flashlight attachment and laser site...not that i can use it on the job, lol) and a Mossberg 930 auto loader w/ tactical kit (flashlight and pistol grip). Obviously my Glock is my duty weapon, but i also use it for hobby purposes too (yearly entry into local Glock competition as well as target shooting). The Mossberg is strictly for home defense and has spent 99% of its life in a safe...i think i've fired it at a range about 10 times in the 3 years i've owned it.

    My wife owns a Glock 23 40cal. It's a beast of a Glock, as it is one of their higher end models, but the power is controllable and the fitment of the size of the body in her hand is good for her (as its a smaller body handgun, my 9mm for size comparison is substantially longer and tends to lose balance in a smaller hand). We bought this handgun for her years ago for a great deal, and she has really honed her skill with it since then, she out shoots me sometimes at the range!

    We both have civilian level concealed permits, i have a federal clearance concealed and exposed permit. My wife got her concealed permit because she wants protection convenient to her when she feels it necessary, she also carries police grade pepper spray and a small knife. We arn't paranoid, we're just taking advantage of the right to do so...she's never pulled her gun on a person in her life, but she knows how, and that's what matters to me...if she needed to, some thug with money and rape on his mind would get his head blown off and my wife would come home a little shaken up that night...instead of the alternative.

    People who fear guns, i respect your opinion...my mother and one of my brother's completely stand against having them, and they do not allow them in their home (i even leave my duty weapon in my vehicle in both cases out of respect). But you have to have an educated approach to them before making that decision, don't just base it on the idea that someone shot a little kid accidentally one day in the world so all guns and gun owners are dangerous...those that own guns MUST practice with them, keep them clean and in good repair, and must use common sense...when those criteria are met, they are a very valuable piece of protection and even fun!
    Very good post. Lots of wise insight.

    I thinking carry a gun is a very pro-active way to STOP violence, not ignite it. I feel confident that if I were in a public place where a shooting broke out that I could take out the shooter before he killed anyone else. That alone, to me, is enough reason to carry. And if someone broke into my house, it would be over and done - I'd unload.
    01-27-2011 10:49 AM
  4. kch50428's Avatar
    Iowa just enacted a new law where county sherifs "shall issue" CCPs, and if they don't have to have specific legal reasons for not doing so, and state what those reasons are in the event of a denial of a CCP. Used to be, the sheriff could deny a CCP application on a whim, and not have to justify why... the new law also has some training involved... there is a growing market for the approved training courses, and weapons. When there are more training opportunities available, I may pursue a CCP.
    01-27-2011 10:56 AM
  5. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    I've always support the training piece of a weapons permit...if nothing else, it discourages those who don't want their identification and face on a camera in a gun range...not to mention the effort you have to put forth to do all of this. I doesn't solve the problem, but it certainly helps...
    01-27-2011 11:56 AM
  6. boss75's Avatar
    Great posts Sean. Thanks for the info. I have a lot of respect for you now reading what you wrote.

    I personally also have my Concealed Handgun License (as it's called here in Texas) and also believe it's a great way to prevent violence from ever occuring in the first place. My motto is to always avoid situations and places where I could get myself into trouble. I don't think I'd ever draw my weapon though unless it was in defense of my life, or someone else's life. The law here in Texas allows for deadly force to be used in the defense of property also but I just don't think my truck or motorcycle is worth killing someone over.

    I also think most situations can be resolved either by just moving on or by a kind word or two. If someone is cussing at me on the highway I always just ignore them and carry on my merry way. I don't believe that I should let them get me upset just because they're having a bad day and want to yell at someone.

    In my opinion, the more properly trained civilians who carry a loaded firearm there are, the less likely criminals are to pick a person at random and comit some type of crime against them. If there is a small thought in the bad guy's head that this person he's about to assault and rob might be carrying a hand gun and use it against him, then he might also double think what he's about to do and just go home and no one gets hurt.

    I carry one of two guns every day. Either a Kel-tec P-3AT with an Armalaser laser on the front, or a Springfield XD40 subcompact. Usually it's the .380 since it's just so easy to carry. I can just drop it in my back pocket and go. I also own a Springfield XDM40 with a streamlight TLR1 on it for home defense, and I have an old Browning .22 rifle that I use for plinking at the gun range. Lastly I have a Bushmaster AR-15 with a light on the front and an Eotech sight on top. That's my gun for when the SHTF.
    01-27-2011 04:12 PM
  7. JakePleasants's Avatar
    I've always support the training piece of a weapons permit...if nothing else, it discourages those who don't want their identification and face on a camera in a gun range...not to mention the effort you have to put forth to do all of this. I doesn't solve the problem, but it certainly helps...
    I agree. I think classes should be a requirement in all the states. I had the option of either going to the class or not and I opted out of it simply because of my health - it's incredibly hard for me to go to places on a schedule because my day-day is never consistent. I only had that option though because my dad teaches the classes and he just wrote a letter saying that he taught me everything I needed to know. Otherwise, it's a requirement in Virginia.

    Great posts Sean. Thanks for the info. I have a lot of respect for you now reading what you wrote.

    I personally also have my Concealed Handgun License (as it's called here in Texas) and also believe it's a great way to prevent violence from ever occuring in the first place. My motto is to always avoid situations and places where I could get myself into trouble. I don't think I'd ever draw my weapon though unless it was in defense of my life, or someone else's life. The law here in Texas allows for deadly force to be used in the defense of property also but I just don't think my truck or motorcycle is worth killing someone over.

    I also think most situations can be resolved either by just moving on or by a kind word or two. If someone is cussing at me on the highway I always just ignore them and carry on my merry way. I don't believe that I should let them get me upset just because they're having a bad day and want to yell at someone.

    In my opinion, the more properly trained civilians who carry a loaded firearm there are, the less likely criminals are to pick a person at random and comit some type of crime against them. If there is a small thought in the bad guy's head that this person he's about to assault and rob might be carrying a hand gun and use it against him, then he might also double think what he's about to do and just go home and no one gets hurt.

    I carry one of two guns every day. Either a Kel-tec P-3AT with an Armalaser laser on the front, or a Springfield XD40 subcompact. Usually it's the .380 since it's just so easy to carry. I can just drop it in my back pocket and go. I also own a Springfield XDM40 with a streamlight TLR1 on it for home defense, and I have an old Browning .22 rifle that I use for plinking at the gun range. Lastly I have a Bushmaster AR-15 with a light on the front and an Eotech sight on top. That's my gun for when the SHTF.
    I agree with everything you said, very good post. I too think that more trained, armed civilians would give criminals a lot more pause before they commit a crime, especially a violent one. I also wouldn't kill someone for stealing my car. The only time I would kill someone is if they were going to kill or rape another person, then I'd feel justified in using deadly force. I'd also shoot if someone broke into my house and I knew nothing about their intentions. I'd shoot through the door and hope it didn't kill them, but I have to protect myself. I have no way of knowing if they have a gun and plan to kill me, so I have to do what I have to do.

    I think if there had been an armed civilian at the Safeway when our Congresswoman and those innocent people were shot, then maybe they could have done something before the shooter got the chance and little Christina Green would have a future. I hate to think about the "what ifs" but all the talk about banning guns entirely is quite scary. If they take the guns out of our hands, the good people, then how are we going to be any safer when the criminals are walking around with guns and we have nothing to protect ourselves?
    01-27-2011 05:41 PM
  8. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    That's my gun for when the SHTF.
    Zombie attack gun! I'm hoping in the event of total zombie take over, i'll be able to get ahold of a barrett m95 and maybe a few crates of ammo.

    I agree with everything you said, very good post. I too think that more trained, armed civilians would give criminals a lot more pause before they commit a crime, especially a violent one. I also wouldn't kill someone for stealing my car. The only time I would kill someone is if they were going to kill or rape another person, then I'd feel justified in using deadly force. I'd also shoot if someone broke into my house and I knew nothing about their intentions. I'd shoot through the door and hope it didn't kill them, but I have to protect myself. I have no way of knowing if they have a gun and plan to kill me, so I have to do what I have to do.
    No offense man, but a couple of your posts in here have kind of led me to believe that you're a little quick on the trigger (mentally atleast)...i hope you understand your local laws as far as shooting intruders in your home, TRUST ME when i tell you that you will not always win a legal battle against a home intruder if you shoot and kill them...manslaughter carries with it some hefty issues, especially if it is shown to be in a manner where there was no life threatening situation happening (and they WILL figure it out based on every sort of investigation you could think of).

    Again, not trying to call you out, but maybe put a bit of patience in your mind when it comes to snapping off rounds at a person coming into your house...when i first joined Atlanta PD (before going federal), i got to go through the entire process of a situation where a family had a home for sale, but were still living in it...frequently homeless people will assume an empty house and will try squatting at these kind of properties...a man broke the doorknob off a patio door and walked inside a house...the home owner was already locked and loaded after hearing the knob being broken off...he walked around the corner, saw the guy and fired two shots center mass, killing the man instantly.

    Now im not taking up for the homeless guy, while he was just trying to find some warmth from the outside, he WAS breaking and entering...but unfortunately the home owner was convicted of 1st degree manslaughter under the act of "Imperfect Self Defense"...i spent a better part of my first 2 months after rookie training within this case, and sadly, the man ended up with a some jail time and a criminal record...all for defending his home without the right knowledge of what he was legally authorized to do.

    Understand that i dont BLAME him for doing that, he didn't know if the guy was a robber, ****** or the easter bunny...but what we WOULD do and what is LEGAL to do are sometimes very very different animals. Be careful with how quick you are to pull the trigger...the best thing i was ever told was that you will NEVER pull a trigger on a gun and kill someone and simply go on with a normal life...mentally, physically and psychologically, you will always remember and be effected by this...not to mention the possible legal ramifications.
    Last edited by SeanHRCC; 01-27-2011 at 07:38 PM.
    01-27-2011 07:25 PM
  9. JakePleasants's Avatar
    No offense man, but a couple of your posts in here have kind of led me to believe that you're a little quick on the trigger (mentally atleast)...i hope you understand your local laws as far as shooting intruders in your home, TRUST ME when i tell you that you will not always win a legal battle against a home intruder if you shoot and kill them...manslaughter carries with it some hefty issues, especially if it is shown to be in a manner where there was no life threatening situation happening (and they WILL figure it out based on every sort of investigation you could think of).

    Again, not trying to call you out, but maybe put a bit of patience in your mind when it comes to snapping off rounds at a person coming into your house...when i first joined Atlanta PD (before going federal), i got to go through the entire process of a situation where a family had a home for sale, but were still living in it...frequently homeless people will assume an empty house and will try squatting at these kind of properties...a man broke the doorknob off a patio door and walked inside a house...the home owner was already locked and loaded after hearing the knob being broken off...he walked around the corner, saw the guy and fired two shots center mass, killing the man instantly.

    Now im not taking up for the homeless guy, while he was just trying to find some warmth from the outside, he WAS breaking and entering...but unfortunately the home owner was convicted of 1st degree manslaughter under the act of "Imperfect Self Defense"...i spent a better part of my first 2 months after rookie training within this case, and sadly, the man ended up with a some jail time and a criminal record...all for defending his home without the right knowledge of what he was legally authorized to do.

    Understand that i dont BLAME him for doing that, he didn't know if the guy was a robber, ****** or the easter bunny...but what we WOULD do and what is LEGAL to do are sometimes very very different animals. Be careful with how quick you are to pull the trigger...the best thing i was ever told was that you will NEVER pull a trigger on a gun and kill someone and simply go on with a normal life...mentally, physically and psychologically, you will always remember and be effected by this...not to mention the possible legal ramifications.
    No offense taken, you're absolutely right. The only time I would shoot to kill is if it were a situation like Virginia Tech (which is very close to where I live) or what just happened at the Safeway. If it was someone breaking into my house and I could see their body, I would first yell at them to freeze and put their hands up. Now if they whip around like they plan to do something, then I'd shoot them but I would try to wound them rather than kill. I would NEVER intentionally take a life if I didn't absolutely have to in order to protect my life or the life of another. If someone was violently trying to kick in the door, I would position myself behind a piece of furniture and take aim so I could follow the steps I just described. However, if they were pumped up on adrenaline after kicking in a door, I highly doubt they'd listen to reason so I would probably end up shooting when the intention of wounding them.

    I honestly never meant to come across as trigger happy in my posts because I'm not, but to be honest, I'm still taking in what happened at the Safeway and when I said those things, that's the kind of thing I had in mind (even if I was referring to a home invasion, I was still in that mindset). In real life I'm a very rational and caring person who thinks about every possible consequence of my actions before acting. I'm sorry if I gave you the wrong impression of who I am.
    01-27-2011 10:06 PM
  10. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    PSA...never shoot to wound. It comes with so much drama, you'll wish you had killed the person.
    01-28-2011 07:06 AM
  11. ctt1wbw's Avatar
    Ban guns!!! Guns cause global warming which is making it snow all over the world!
    01-28-2011 07:07 AM
  12. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Ban guns!!! Guns cause global warming which is making it snow all over the world!
    Damn right. +1

    Also...9/11.
    01-28-2011 07:08 AM
  13. pilsbury's Avatar
    Ive had my CWP since 96. Carry a Kel Tek .380 in my front pocket, holstered XD .40 on my hip. Patiently awaiting an attempted home invasion.
    01-28-2011 07:25 AM
  14. JakePleasants's Avatar
    PSA...never shoot to wound. It comes with so much drama, you'll wish you had killed the person.
    Then what the hell do you want me to do?
    01-28-2011 10:40 AM
  15. Alli's Avatar
    At the police range, they teach you to shoot for the biggest target to make sure you hit something. It's easier to hit someone in the shoulder if you're aiming for the center of his chest (when he's moving) than if you aim for his wrist and get nothing.
    01-28-2011 11:08 AM
  16. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    ^^^ This.

    Then what the hell do you want me to do?
    Basically what i was saying is that you never want to get into a shoot out with the idea that you're simply going to wound someone...if you're going to crack that round off, make sure you're going to stop whatever or whoever is coming at you as effectively as possible, shooting with the idea to wound someone is basically trying to tell yourself to throw your shot off a bit...

    Center mass and head shots...i dont pull the trigger for any other body part.
    01-28-2011 02:07 PM
  17. JakePleasants's Avatar
    At the police range, they teach you to shoot for the biggest target to make sure you hit something. It's easier to hit someone in the shoulder if you're aiming for the center of his chest (when he's moving) than if you aim for his wrist and get nothing.
    ^^^ This.



    Basically what i was saying is that you never want to get into a shoot out with the idea that you're simply going to wound someone...if you're going to crack that round off, make sure you're going to stop whatever or whoever is coming at you as effectively as possible, shooting with the idea to wound someone is basically trying to tell yourself to throw your shot off a bit...

    Center mass and head shots...i dont pull the trigger for any other body part.
    That's the general idea I was going for. I mean I never said I was aiming for a wrist, arm, or leg. Like Alli said, ideally I'd hit the shoulder. However, I when I said that I was referring to the scenario of a home invasion after telling them to freeze that they whip around - then I'd go for the shoulder or torso/stomach area. If someone is actually coming at me, I would absolutely shoot to kill.

    My dad has always told me the same thing though, that if you have to shoot, you shoot to kill.
    01-28-2011 07:55 PM
  18. john_v's Avatar
    Well, here in IL we don't have concealed carry, but in my hometown today (in fact right down the street) a pharmacist who was packing heat thwarted an armed robbery. Apparently they had been victimized a couple months ago in another armed robbery. Kudos to the pharmacist

    Employee shoots man during Wauconda robbery attempt - DailyHerald.com
    02-14-2011 08:48 PM
  19. ChrisGonzales90's Avatar

    My dad has always told me the same thing though, that if you have to shoot, you shoot to kill.
    Any chance your dad works or worked for Portland Police deparment or is even Sam adams? They seem to love that stuff.
    02-14-2011 09:31 PM
  20. Darth-gamer's Avatar
    I can't say that I have any pistols as I live in Communist NY and can't even apply for a permit for almost another year, but as for long guns:

    Bushmaster XM-15 E2S M4 Style Carbine (5.56/.223)
    Tula Arms Mosin Nagant 91/30 (7.62x54r)
    Hi Point 995 9mm Carbine (9mm)
    Mossberg 535 ATS (12 gauge)
    New England Arms Pardner Pump (12 gauge)
    GSG-5 MP5 SD Clone (.22LR)
    Remington 597 (.22LR)

    So I guess I'll join the TiPb Rifle/Shotgun club.
    02-16-2011 11:55 PM
  21. Alli's Avatar
    Funny thing here, I know as many gun enthusiasts in NY (where I learned to shoot) as here in the south where everyone has a gun.

    I don't like long guns at all, but I think it's cause I'm short.
    02-17-2011 06:57 AM
  22. ghostface147's Avatar
    This is all I need. Glock 23. I hope I NEVER have to use it outside of pleasure at a range or something similar.

    02-17-2011 08:52 PM
  23. cevmkv's Avatar
    My pistol.....Heckler & Koch USP .40
    My shotgun...Remington 11-87 semi-automatic
    02-17-2011 09:43 PM
  24. Darth-gamer's Avatar
    Funny thing here, I know as many gun enthusiasts in NY (where I learned to shoot) as here in the south where everyone has a gun.

    I don't like long guns at all, but I think it's cause I'm short.
    Oh trust me, I'll be getting a pistol soon enough. AS soon as I get my permit a Walther P99 has my name on it.
    02-17-2011 10:34 PM
  25. ghostface147's Avatar
    AS soon as I get my permit a Walther P99 has my name on it.
    My cousin has one of those. Nice gun.
    02-17-2011 10:42 PM
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