1. acadia11's Avatar
    I don't use the device for personal reasons, so I don't download apps or play games on it. I mainly use the z10 for work, such as email, bbm and light browsing. You have much more experience in using the device widely so I'll take your word for it. I wasn't basing my opinion on apps or typing while gaming, but having used both I didn't understand the "set standards" term...you have a broader sense than me.
    I was agreeing with you, but ageed if you are talking of productivity yes berry has st the standard, I don't game etc either on phone. For actually doing office productivity the z10. Email integration is light years better on z10
    01-10-2014 03:28 PM
  2. Frehley's Avatar
    I don't doubt at all, but I do have one gripe. I've never stated or hinted that I would never return to Blackberry. In fact, I've stated on numerous occasions, including my post above, that I look forward to returning to Blackberry devices. The devices you mention ARE VERY NICE indeed, but not enough to pry me from my iPhone at this time. Everything I need to do, I am currently able to do so there is no need for me to move away from Apple. In other words, the comfort I once shared with Blackberry devices is being shared with Apple devices and no matter how much I adore Blackberry, I'm staying put for now....
    As I said when in a response to my original post, "I know that some BB users will feel that I sold out, but I still have my Z10 and Q10. When BB10 (and the app situation) matures...who knows?"

    Right now I am enjoying rocking the 5s.

    I have been a diehard BB user, and BB10 (Z10, Q10) are amazing devices, however the "maturity" of the OS and the app situation have made me love (right now) my new GOLD 5s.
    Last edited by Frehley; 01-10-2014 at 05:27 PM. Reason: Add additional comment
    Just_Me_D likes this.
    01-10-2014 05:25 PM
  3. acadia11's Avatar
    Maturity of OS and maturity of app situation are two distinct things. The OS is pretty mature, especially 10.2, the app situation not so much. The OS and the apps are two separate things though, people talk about them as though they are 1 thing. And nobody here has issue with you going to an iphone I have an iphone. I just like to make sure discussions are based in facts.
    01-10-2014 05:35 PM
  4. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    I'm not saying you should or have to return, I'm just asking if you've actually used the new devices.
    The only use I've had of the two Blackberry device you referenced were demo models for a few minutes.
    I say use which ever device makes you happy, but since I can use both I don't have to choose. Just wondering if your opinion was born out of actual use or not?
    Only for a few minutes with the demo models.
    01-10-2014 05:46 PM
  5. zdn1042's Avatar
    Welcome to iMore, Frehley!
    Frehley likes this.
    01-10-2014 11:06 PM
  6. nikkisharif's Avatar
    Enjoy your 5S and Welcome to iMore!!!
    Frehley likes this.
    01-11-2014 12:22 AM
  7. Frehley's Avatar
    Maturity of OS and maturity of app situation are two distinct things. The OS is pretty mature, especially 10.2, the app situation not so much. The OS and the apps are two separate things though, people talk about them as though they are 1 thing. And nobody here has issue with you going to an iphone I have an iphone. I just like to make sure discussions are based in facts.
    I understand that the maturity of the OS and the app situation are two distinct things. However, 10.2 hasn't been released by AT&T, people are running leaks, so to me the OS has not yet matured. I like to make decisions based on facts also...the fact is that 10.2 is not yet official which, in my opinion, leaves BB10 lacking.

    Anyway, I'm enjoying the 5s now and may revisit BB10 in the future.
    FFR likes this.
    01-12-2014 12:55 PM
  8. acadia11's Avatar
    I understand that the maturity of the OS and the app situation are two distinct things. However, 10.2 hasn't been released by AT&T, people are running leaks, so to me the OS has not yet matured. I like to make decisions based on facts also...the fact is that 10.2 is not yet official which, in my opinion, leaves BB10 lacking.

    Anyway, I'm enjoying the 5s now and may revisit BB10 in the future.
    Yeah, the carriers have really left bb10 high and dry, Apple was smart to control upgrades. Berry should make it even easier to upgrade without relying on carrier. 10.2 is officially out who knows though when ATT will release it if they will at all, I get the impression BBerry is the last thing on their mind
    Frehley likes this.
    01-12-2014 12:59 PM
  9. Golfdriver97's Avatar
    Welcome to iMore.
    Frehley likes this.
    01-13-2014 10:19 AM
  10. bamf-hacker's Avatar
    01-14-2014 12:21 PM
  11. Elizabeth2's Avatar
    I understand that the maturity of the OS and the app situation are two distinct things. However, 10.2 hasn't been released by AT&T, people are running leaks, so to me the OS has not yet matured. I like to make decisions based on facts also...the fact is that 10.2 is not yet official which, in my opinion, leaves BB10 lacking.

    Anyway, I'm enjoying the 5s now and may revisit BB10 in the future.
    Welcome back to an iPhone Frehley. You will find that many of us were previous Blackberry owners.

    Glad you are enjoying your new iPhone 5s! To sum my experience with my iPhone 5 is that it dependable and current.
    Frehley likes this.
    01-14-2014 12:50 PM
  12. offdahglass's Avatar
    Welcome aboard.
    Frehley likes this.
    01-14-2014 02:13 PM
  13. Septembersrain's Avatar
    I had a BB Z10 and I hated the thing. Sure back in the day it was the "Cool" thing to have. Now it's just a cluster and is only really useful for email. Which was pretty much what it had originally been made for right?

    Just my opinion of course but I think they should just stay in the business market.

    Oh and welcome! I'm on my first iDevice myself. =]
    FFR and Frehley like this.
    01-21-2014 01:17 PM
  14. FFR's Avatar
    I had a BB Z10 and I hated the thing. Sure back in the day it was the "Cool" thing to have. Now it's just a cluster and is only really useful for email. Which was pretty much what it had originally been made for right?

    Just my opinion of course but I think they should just stay in the business market.

    Oh and welcome! I'm on my first iDevice myself. =]
    You wouldn't be alone, the z10 had an unusually high return rate. In fact the write down on bb10 devices brought the company to it knees.

    Enjoy your iPhone.

    To the op: congrats on your new purchase.
    01-22-2014 11:20 AM
  15. acadia11's Avatar
    You wouldn't be alone, the z10 had an unusually high return rate. In fact the write down on bb10 devices brought the company to it knees.

    Enjoy your iPhone.

    To the op: congrats on your new purchase.
    Not at all true. It had fewer sales than anticipated but it did not have a high return rate, most of the people who bought it were/are bberry fans.

    But carriers gave it zero love. Try going in and asking about it, first thing sales people said either what is it didn't know about it, or why do you want a bberry let me show you and iphone or this Samsung. This was exact experience I had and many notes it in crack berry forums.
    01-22-2014 03:28 PM
  16. FFR's Avatar
    Not at all true. It had fewer sales than anticipated but it did not have a high return rate, most of the people who bought it were/are bberry
    Actually your wrong.
    The z10 does indeed have an unusually high return rate. In fact one carrier here in the uk actually sells those return models as "like new".

    "Fewer sales than anticipated" is like cling the titanic a dinghy. I believe blackberry had two write downs concerning the z10 and unsold/returned inventory. Not pretty.


    Oh and most bbry fans have transitioned to the iPhone or an
    Android phone not bb10.



    But carriers gave it zero love. Try going in and asking about it, first thing sales people said either what is it didn't know about it, or why do you want a bberry let me show you and iphone or this Samsung. This was exact experience I had and many notes it in crack berry forums.
    Most carriers don't even carry bb10 in stores anymore. It's either available for enterprise customers or direct fulfillment.

    Haven't you heard Blackberry is retreating from the consumer market.
    In 2014 they will be focusing on the enterprise, and a handful of emerging markets such as Mexico and Indonesia.
    mikeo007 likes this.
    01-22-2014 03:49 PM
  17. acadia11's Avatar
    Actually your wrong.
    The z10 does indeed have an unusually high return rate. In fact one carrier here in the uk actually sells those return models as "like new".

    "Fewer sales than anticipated" is like cling the titanic a dinghy. I believe blackberry had two write downs concerning the z10 and unsold/returned inventory. Not pretty.


    Oh and most bbry fans have transitioned to the iPhone or an
    Android phone not bb10.



    Most carriers don't even carry bb10 in stores anymore. It's either available for enterprise customers or direct fulfillment.

    Haven't you heard Blackberry is retreating from the consumer market.
    In 2014 they will be focusing on the enterprise, and a handful of emerging markets such as Mexico and Indonesia.
    Exactly, people who actually purchased a bb10 device had not significant returns. You said they chose it over a bb os7 device, os7 not only is a different OS, it works nothing like bb10. Why do people keep talking about berry as there isn't a brand new set of devices and built from groundup OS not remotely related to previous bb OS, heck, berry bought Quantum creator of QNX in order to build the bb10 OS. Bb10 being a QNX underneath.

    Again, the berry bb10 launch was horrible this was before they fired everyone including the CEO , and then beginning this transition to enterprise focus. There was 0 carrier support at the launch, 9 months ago, I mean literally I went into 3 different stores and sales people tried to talk me out of buying the z10 or k new nothing about the phone. This was 9 months ago, the move to not carrying berry was last month, ... The fault was berry, did horrific job marketing as well as channel partnering, with carriers on the hook to sell millions of iPhones especially as well as Samsungs , I understand but dayum to actively try and talk people out of a purchase they've already decided to make are you serious. Crack berry had entire threads dedicated to how atrocious the in store experience was for someone looking to buy bb10 at launch.

    http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...rience-874114/
    01-22-2014 08:50 PM
  18. acadia11's Avatar
    Actually your wrong.
    The z10 does indeed have an unusually high return rate. In fact one carrier here in the uk actually sells those return models as "like new".

    "Fewer sales than anticipated" is like cling the titanic a dinghy. I believe blackberry had two write downs concerning the z10 and unsold/returned inventory. Not pretty.


    Oh and most bbry fans have transitioned to the iPhone or an
    Android phone not bb10.



    Most carriers don't even carry bb10 in stores anymore. It's either available for enterprise customers or direct fulfillment.

    Haven't you heard Blackberry is retreating from the consumer market.
    In 2014 they will be focusing on the enterprise, and a handful of emerging markets such as Mexico and Indonesia.
    Comments on launch carriers especially AT&T gave it little love at launch, reps are cited to push iphone and samsung, experience does vary

    http://forums.crackberry.com/t-f68/m...ce-att-786171/

    Also, article pointing to berry asking SEC to investigate how false rumor started about z10 rates being higher than normal, it's patently false. Mindshare is a powerful thing the press negativity is working as self fulfilling prophesy of demise

    http://www.siliconrepublic.com/busin...wants-probe-of
    01-22-2014 10:37 PM
  19. CardsFan314's Avatar
    Welcome to Imore! The 5s is a great device.


    Sent from my iPhone 5s using Tapatalk
    Frehley likes this.
    01-22-2014 10:43 PM
  20. FFR's Avatar
    Comments on launch carriers especially AT&T gave it little love at launch, reps are cited to push iphone and samsung, experience does vary

    http://forums.crackberry.com/t-f68/m...ce-att-786171/

    Yes carrier reps were pushing other phones because they didn't want to deal with the angry frustrated customers and the returns anymore.

    Same thing happened with palm.



    Also, article pointing to berry asking SEC to investigate how false rumor started about z10 rates being higher than normal, it's patently false. Mindshare is a powerful thing the press negativity is working as self fulfilling prophesy of demise

    http://www.siliconrepublic.com/busin...wants-probe-of

    Hahaha Blackberry has two class action lawsuits for misleading its investors by pulling stunts like that.

    "The suit accuses BlackBerry of making a series of materially false and misleading statements and omissions related to the Companys business and operations, relating to its Sept. 20 pre-announcement of a huge quarterly loss. Seven days later, the company reported a $965 million operating loss."

    "In reality, the BlackBerry 10 was not well-received by the market, and the company was forced to ... lay off approximately 4,500 employees, totalling approximately 40 percent of its total workforce," the complaint alleges.

    http://allthingsd.com/20131006/black...uyout-chatter/

    And:

    "A class action lawsuit against BlackBerry Ltd. is demanding financial compensation on behalf of Canadian shareholders who bought stock between September 2012 and September 2013, saying the company did not declare the full extent of its financial difficulty to retail investors.

    The lawsuit was launched Tuesday in Quebec Superior Court. It is the second class action lawsuit on behalf of shareholders, following one launched in New York on Oct. 5.

    "For almost a full year, BlackBerry management made market statements based on prophecy rather than fact. Thousands of Canadians who invested in BlackBerry Ltd. in the past year have lost hundreds of millions of dollars." said Tony Merchant, the lawyer representing current and former BlackBerry shareholders.

    The class action lawsuit alleges that BlackBerry senior management misrepresented how well the BlackBerry 10 line of smartphones was received by consumers and the public.

    It also alleges the full extent of BlackBerrys financial trouble wasnt revealed until Sept. 20, 2013, when the company announced a writedown of close to $1 billion in the third quarter and said it would lay off 40 per cent of its workforce."

    http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/#!/content/1.2055257

    Bb10 was such a failure it cost rim over 6 billion dollars. That is not perception that is reality.

    So is the fact that rim is EXITING the consumer market because of it.
    01-23-2014 05:03 AM
  21. acadia11's Avatar
    FFR, the lawsuits have nothing to do with the number of returns, what's the point. As stated the number of returns was not greater than other smart phones. Fact.

    The suits have to do with number of sales. And unsold inventory. I personally can't seem to understand why you would relish in actual demise of what is a very good product. The last thing you would want is homogeny in the market as a consumer.
    01-23-2014 05:37 AM
  22. FFR's Avatar
    FFR, the lawsuits have nothing to do with the number of returns, what's the point. As stated the number of returns was not greater than other smart phones.
    Fact.
    And who stated that?
    Ah yes the same company being sued for misleading the investors by falsifying statements regarding bb10 performance, or lack there of.


    The suits have to do with number of sales. And unsold inventory..

    Aka: returned inventory.

    I personally can't seem to understand why you would relish in actual demise of what is a very good product.
    It's not a good product hence the lack of sales. You know the fact that bb10 has shipped (not sold) less than 6 million phones for 2013, costing it over 6 billion dollars in loses for the year.

    Perhaps we have different definitions of a good product.

    As for what you call "relishing", I'm actually correcting the misinformation you seem to be spreading regarding bb10. (Which is a lot btw, almost every one of your posts seems to be promoting bb10).


    The last thing you would want is homogeny in the market as a consumer.
    Another one of your fallacies you seem to be spreading.

    What do you call iOS, android, and WM. Even without blackberry the market is quite far from homogeneous.

    Blackberry already left the consumer market. Carries are just waiting for inventory to dry up.
    mikeo007 likes this.
    01-23-2014 06:12 AM
  23. ruthannewood's Avatar
    It's good when you got something that makes you happy even if it's a bigger investment.
    Frehley likes this.
    01-23-2014 06:18 PM
  24. acadia11's Avatar
    And who stated that?
    Ah yes the same company being sued for misleading the investors by falsifying statements regarding bb10 performance, or lack there of.





    Aka: returned inventory.



    It's not a good product hence the lack of sales. You know the fact that bb10 has shipped (not sold) less than 6 million phones for 2013, costing it over 6 billion dollars in loses for the year.

    Perhaps we have different definitions of a good product.

    As for what you call "relishing", I'm actually correcting the misinformation you seem to be spreading regarding bb10. (Which is a lot btw, almost every one of your posts seems to be promoting bb10).




    Another one of your fallacies you seem to be spreading.

    What do you call iOS, android, and WM. Even without blackberry the market is quite far from homogeneous.

    Blackberry already left the consumer market. Carries are just waiting for inventory to dry up.
    There are basically iOS and android now , with windows phone soon moving into 3rd position.

    Finally, blackberry did not leave consumer market they are just refocusing on the prosumer market. The bottom line is players leaving the market is never good for a buyer , it doesn't matter that there is iOS and android, my point is less choices is not good for the purchasee in a capitalistic system. What is disinformation about that?


    And you make so many invalid claims it's ridiculous, bb10 selling had nothing to do with it not being a good product, it's in fact a great product. Business 101 tells you having a great product is not the determinate of sales. Betamax was better than VHS , who won out?

    Also, blackberry did not get sued for returned inventory. Returned inventory implies someone bought the product but for whatever reason , returned it. Your implication being people bought the product didn't like it ... And moved on. This is false, #1 people who bought a bb10 were no less satisfied than people who bought an iphone , and returns were pretty much and are the same across the industry. #2 the report by 1 analyst who spread this lie was in march 2013. #3 the lawsuit deals with bberry unsold inventory , not sold and returned stemming from September 2013, well after the fiasco with the analyst.

    Dude, come on now, I don't care that you disagree, I don't care that you prefer iOS, I just want you to be straight and not make up isht about the competition , enjoy your phone.


    Sent from my iPhone using iMore Forums mobile app
    01-24-2014 12:10 PM
  25. Fit24's Avatar
    Welcome to IMore!


    Sent from my iPhone using iMore Forums mobile app
    01-30-2014 01:16 AM
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