1. donnation's Avatar
    Recently my 2017 MacBook Pro keyboard started acting up. The space bar key was spacing everything twice and the N key wasn't registering about half the time. I had to take it in the the genius bar to let them fix it. My wife who has a 2015 MacBook Pro let me use hers while mine was getting sick (she also has an Air that she could use).

    Wow, I really miss everything about the 2015 MacBook Pro. Its quiet, runs like a dream, and I'm not sure after using it for a week why I ever got rid of my 2014 MacBook Pro.

    The Keyboard is 1000% better on this MacBook than it is on the new ones. You can try and tell me it isn't, but there is just no denying that they older keyboards are much more comfortable to type on. They are also so much more quiet which is really nice. The keys are a perfect blend of click and pillowy softness. Honestly after typing on this keyboard for a week going back to the 2017 keyboard sickens me a little bit.

    Performance - So this is a 2.5Ghz model so its like the middle of the road MacBook pro for that year. The thing screams blazingly fast and never hiccuped or stuttered on me a single time. The fan never kicked in (which it does pretty frequently on my 2017 Pro). Everything I threw at it from video editing to the small gaming I do ran perfectly on the machine. The only time the fan came on is when I was playing Limbo, which it also does on my 2017 MacBook Pro.

    Trackpad - I don't need trackpad as large as the one Apple made on the 2017 version. Although it works well most of the time, it still picks up my palm at least a few times a day and messes with what I was typing or doing. Not with the 2015 version. Its the perfect size. This is of course subjective but I think the smaller one is better suited as I'm not sure now why Apple changed to such a large one.

    Ports - Goes without saying. Not living dongle life was a breath of fresh air.

    Battery - Granted, her model doesn't have battery sucking dual graphics, but her model would run circles around mine in the battery department.

    Screen - Honestly, they are both the same resolution and I can't tell a difference. I know the new one is a little brighter and has deeper colors, but I can't really tell a difference. I'd have to have them next to each other to be able to tell the difference.

    Things I miss -
    Touch Bar - Do I ever use it? Very rarely but it looks cool.
    Touch ID - That is a homerun and I love having that even if its not integrated as deeply as I would like into the OS.
    Size - I do like the slim down size and weight of the newer model. Its not a huge difference but it is smaller and lighter.

    Overall I think the 2015 MacBook Pro might be the best laptop Apple has every built. When I get mine back, I am going to sell it and return to the 2015 if I can find one that is like new or in excellent shape as I really want that experience back on a daily basis.

    Has anyone else ever experienced this?
    04-21-2018 07:32 AM
  2. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    I use a MacBook Air at work and a 2017 MacBook Pro w/o touch bar at home. I enjoy the keyboard on my MacBook Pro because I don’t make as many typos with it. Sure, it’s not spongy like the keyboard on the MacBook Air, but it feels okay to me. As for the keystroke noise, it’s definitely less than my MacBook Air, but I come from the typewriter era so I don’t consider either as being loud..........The only time I’ve heard the fan kick in was when I initiated the disk encryption option and when I decrypted it and then re-installed macOS. Other than that, the fan never comes on.

    Anyway, go with the best device that fits “you”, and if that be your 2015 MacBook Pro, so be it. That’s your business and you do not have to justify your decision with anyone here at iMore. Enjoy your weekend, sir.
    04-21-2018 07:52 AM
  3. donnation's Avatar
    I use a MacBook Air at work and a 2017 MacBook Pro w/o touch bar at home. I enjoy the keyboard on my MacBook Pro because I don’t make as many typos with it. Sure, it’s not spongy like the keyboard on the MacBook Air, but it feels okay to me. As for the keystroke noise, it’s definitely less than my MacBook Air, but I come from the typewriter era so I don’t consider either as being loud..........The only time I’ve heard the fan kick in was when I initiated the disk encryption option and when I decrypted it and then re-installed macOS. Other than that, the fan never comes on.

    Anyway, go with the best device that fits “you”, and if that be your 2015 MacBook Pro, so be it. That’s your business and you do not have to justify your decision with anyone here at iMore. Enjoy your weekend, sir.
    I wasn't trying to justify my decision I was just curious if anyone else had a similar experience with the newer MacBook's vs the old.
    04-21-2018 10:44 AM
  4. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    I wasn't trying to justify my decision I was just curious if anyone else had a similar experience with the newer MacBook's vs the old.
    I’m sure others have because I’ve seen posts somewhere in here where people disliked the new keyboard and the removal of popular ports. I can only compare my 2017 MacBook Pro to my old 2009 model MacBook and my work issued MacBook Air.
    04-21-2018 11:45 AM
  5. metllicamilitia's Avatar
    Honestly the biggest thing keeping me from saving up for a newer MacBook is the fact that I would need to get a dongle hub to do the things I do now. All my peripherals are USB-A and I use the SD card slot all the time. I’m not sure I’m ready to go that route. I still have a 2013 MBP that runs fine, it just needs more storage.
    04-21-2018 12:25 PM
  6. TylerLV76's Avatar
    Went from a 128gb 2015 MBP to a 256GB 2017 MBP and although a few things changed, Im pretty pleased with the upgrade.

    The keyboard is louder but Ive figured out how to type relatively quiet and I can type quite a bit faster on the new one. The trackpad is much bigger but Ive not had any issues and the palm rejection is really good.

    As for the ports, yeah I liked them on the 2015 but by getting a bigger drive on the new one, Ive not had a big need for the old ports. I did pick up one of the legacy hubs that attaches to the side of the computer and gives me back all my peripherals if I need them.

    The speakers on the 2017 are incredible and those alone were worth the upgrade to me and I get a bit better battery on the new one compared to the 2015. Seems like maybe an extra 30-45 minutes.

    The only thing I don't like about the new one is losing the MagSafe charger. I ended up getting the Griffin break safe charger and its ok but not as good as the old MagSafe. Also, I don't get why they didn't include the extension cable with the new ones.
    Just_Me_D likes this.
    04-21-2018 04:32 PM
  7. donnation's Avatar
    Went from a 128gb 2015 MBP to a 256GB 2017 MBP and although a few things changed, Im pretty pleased with the upgrade.

    The keyboard is louder but Ive figured out how to type relatively quiet and I can type quite a bit faster on the new one. The trackpad is much bigger but Ive not had any issues and the palm rejection is really good.

    As for the ports, yeah I liked them on the 2015 but by getting a bigger drive on the new one, Ive not had a big need for the old ports. I did pick up one of the legacy hubs that attaches to the side of the computer and gives me back all my peripherals if I need them.

    The speakers on the 2017 are incredible and those alone were worth the upgrade to me and I get a bit better battery on the new one compared to the 2015. Seems like maybe an extra 30-45 minutes.

    The only thing I don't like about the new one is losing the MagSafe charger. I ended up getting the Griffin break safe charger and its ok but not as good as the old MagSafe. Also, I don't get why they didn't include the extension cable with the new ones.
    Yes, I know what you mean about learning type quieter. Lol I worked on that too and have made some strides on being more quiet, but I just think the feel of the newer keyboards compared to the older ones is wrong. I really wish they just felt like the new dark keyboard that Apple came out with. I picked one of those up a couple of weeks ago to replace my aging magic keyboard for my iMac. It is soooo nice to type on. I wish there was a way to integrate that type of keyboard into the MacBooks.

    Yeah I forgot to mention Magsafe. I will never for the life of me understand why Apple chose to get rid of it. It was such a great feature.
    Just_Me_D likes this.
    04-22-2018 06:09 AM
  8. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Yes, I know what you mean about learning type quieter. Lol I worked on that too and have made some strides on being more quiet, but I just think the feel of the newer keyboards compared to the older ones is wrong. I really wish they just felt like the new dark keyboard that Apple came out with. I picked one of those up a couple of weeks ago to replace my aging magic keyboard for my iMac. It is soooo nice to type on. I wish there was a way to integrate that type of keyboard into the MacBooks.

    Yeah I forgot to mention Magsafe. I will never for the life of me understand why Apple chose to get rid of it. It was such a great feature.
    Yeah, Apple getting rid of the MagSafe shocked many of us. I, too, would like to know the rationale, even if it was for the sake of increasing profits. I just want to know. Know what I mean?
    04-22-2018 12:14 PM
  9. donnation's Avatar
    Yeah, Apple getting rid of the MagSafe shocked many of us. I, too, would like to know the rationale, even if it was for the sake of increasing profits. I just want to know. Know what I mean?
    Had to be a money thing, which is disappointing. There really is no rationale that they would give that would make any sense other than "It cost us less to not make a standalone magsafe charging port." There's obviously room for it. Its small decisions like this that sometimes have me question that if Steve Jobs was around if/would those decisions have been made. Yes he was about making money, but he was also about providing the best experience possible to the user, and removing that feature is not one that is in any buyers best interest.
    Just_Me_D likes this.
    04-22-2018 12:17 PM
  10. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Had to be a money thing, which is disappointing. There really is no rationale that they would give that would make any sense other than "It cost us less to not make a standalone magsafe charging port." There's obviously room for it. Its small decisions like this that sometimes have me question that if Steve Jobs was around if/would those decisions have been made. Yes he was about making money, but he was also about providing the best experience possible to the user, and removing that feature is not one that is in any buyers best interest.
    ‘Nuf said, sir....
    04-22-2018 12:23 PM
  11. TylerLV76's Avatar
    Yeah, Apple getting rid of the MagSafe shocked many of us. I, too, would like to know the rationale, even if it was for the sake of increasing profits. I just want to know. Know what I mean?
    Its the universal nature of USB-C. USB-C allows everything in one port. You can charge using any of the ports available and offering a separate charge port would be redundant as well as costly because now you have to build a secondary charge path along side the up to 4 others available. USB-C also charges faster. The idea is one type of cable for all types of connections.

    The only thing they could have done that would make sense is to supply a MagSafe cable (which is rumored to be coming soon).

    USB-C offers a ton of versatility, the issue is its still relatively new and adoption has been somewhat slow. Similarly was HDMI. When it came out it was under scrutiny unless you knew its capabilities. Component cables were the norm at the time and HDMI cables were very expensive. Convincing people that a cable upwards of $100 was practical didn't go over so well. Now, not only is it the norm but its substantially cheaper. The same will come of USB-C.
    Just_Me_D likes this.
    04-22-2018 02:04 PM
  12. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Its the universal nature of USB-C. USB-C allows everything in one port. You can charge using any of the ports available and offering a separate charge port would be redundant as well as costly because now you have to build a secondary charge path along side the up to 4 others available. USB-C also charges faster. The idea is one type of cable for all types of connections.

    The only thing they could have done that would make sense is to supply a MagSafe cable (which is rumored to be coming soon).

    USB-C offers a ton of versatility, the issue is its still relatively new and adoption has been somewhat slow. Similarly was HDMI. When it came out it was under scrutiny unless you knew its capabilities. Component cables were the norm at the time and HDMI cables were very expensive. Convincing people that a cable upwards of $100 was practical didn't go over so well. Now, not only is it the norm but its substantially cheaper. The same will come of USB-C.
    Oh okay. That's good information. Thank you!
    04-22-2018 02:07 PM
  13. donnation's Avatar
    Its the universal nature of USB-C. USB-C allows everything in one port. You can charge using any of the ports available and offering a separate charge port would be redundant as well as costly because now you have to build a secondary charge path along side the up to 4 others available. USB-C also charges faster. The idea is one type of cable for all types of connections.
    It was simply a cost cutting measure. There are a ton of them in the new MacBooks and it’s definitely one of them.
    04-22-2018 02:24 PM
  14. TylerLV76's Avatar
    It was simply a cost cutting measure. There are a ton of them in the new MacBooks and it’s definitely one of them.

    Cost for sure for the simple fact that you would have to run 2 charging sources to one battery. USB-C has a ton of advantages so its not shocking that they are implementing it. I won't be surprised to see the iPhone switch to it soon.

    I really don't see any other cost cutting measures between my 2015 and 2017.

    Maybe myself and my family are among the weird ones but we actually enjoy the keyboard over the old style. We still have a 2013 Air that my kid uses and even she is begging me to let her upgrade before heading to college in the fall. The keyboard is one of the main reasons she wants to switch.

    Its definitely not for everyone and they have had their issues.
    04-22-2018 02:32 PM
  15. donnation's Avatar
    Cost for sure for the simple fact that you would have to run 2 charging sources to one battery. USB-C has a ton of advantages so its not shocking that they are implementing it. I won't be surprised to see the iPhone switch to it soon.

    I really don't see any other cost cutting measures between my 2015 and 2017.

    Maybe myself and my family are among the weird ones but we actually enjoy the keyboard over the old style. We still have a 2013 Air that my kid uses and even she is begging me to let her upgrade before heading to college in the fall. The keyboard is one of the main reasons she wants to switch.

    Its definitely not for everyone and they have had their issues.
    To me, eliminating all of the ports and making them all USB-C was a cost cutting measure.

    It’s not that I hate the new keyboards. I just prefer the old ones more. I don’t think a keyboard should have such little travel while also being annoyingly loud.
    04-22-2018 02:48 PM
  16. TylerLV76's Avatar
    To me, eliminating all of the ports and making them all USB-C was a cost cutting measure.

    It’s not that I hate the new keyboards. I just prefer the old ones more. I don’t think a keyboard should have such little travel while also being annoyingly loud.
    Just for clarity sake, USB-C is more expensive to implement than USB-A. It now handles power regulation as well as data whereas USB-A simply handles data. USB-C, done incorrectly or with shady cables, can be very dangerous and problematic. There is a lot of information going through that cable now that determines whether or not your computer can explode during a charge.
    04-22-2018 02:52 PM
  17. donnation's Avatar
    Just for clarity sake, USB-C is more expensive to implement than USB-A. It now handles power regulation as well as data whereas USB-A simply handles data. USB-C, done incorrectly or with shady cables, can be very dangerous and problematic. There is a lot of information going through that cable now that determines whether or not your computer can explode during a charge.
    But was it more expensive than putting all of the ports that the 2015 and below models have? I don’t think so. Instead they chose to put usb-c in and try and get you to purchase ridiculously overpriced dongles from them.

    Don’t get me wrong, I love Apple. But sometimes they wear me out with their cash grabs.
    04-22-2018 02:57 PM
  18. TylerLV76's Avatar
    But was it more expensive than putting all of the ports that the 2015 and below models have? I don’t think so. Instead they chose to put usb-c in and try and get you to purchase ridiculously overpriced dongles from them.

    Don’t get me wrong, I love Apple. But sometimes they wear me out with their cash grabs.
    Yes. Now the board that controls your USB devices must also regulate power. Before they just had a board that regulated data and one to regulate power. This is now built into one board that complicates things drastically. If one fails it all fails. The cable used also is more expensive as well as the charging block. These all work together now to regulate power.

    The thing is, USB-C is the future for its advantages both in use as well as ability to cut the size of devices down. It will also be safer for charging than previous methods because the port can now relay power data to the charging block and vice versa possibly preventing damage to the battery.

    IMO based on my research of the technology, this definitely wasn't a cost cutting measure but a future proofing method.

    For the record, I don't love Apple, not even close.
    04-22-2018 03:04 PM
  19. donnation's Avatar
    Yes. Now the board that controls your USB devices must also regulate power. Before they just had a board that regulated data and one to regulate power. This is now built into one board that complicates things drastically. If one fails it all fails. The cable used also is more expensive as well as the charging block. These all work together now to regulate power.

    The thing is, USB-C is the future for its advantages both in use as well as ability to cut the size of devices down. It will also be safer for charging than previous methods because the port can now relay power data to the charging block and vice versa possibly preventing damage to the battery.

    IMO based on my research of the technology, this definitely wasn't a cost cutting measure but a future proofing method.
    Yes it’s future proofing but they were cutting costs not putting the other ports in there. You mean to tell me that Apple didn’t have the ability to put some usb-c ports in as well as some of the other ports?

    Come on, it’s a cash grab. The same way getting rid of the headphone jack on the iPhone is a cash grab. You can say wireless is the future, but there wasn’t really any reason to get rid of it. There’s certainly room for it as has been proven but it saves Apple a few bucks in production.
    04-22-2018 03:11 PM
  20. TylerLV76's Avatar
    Yes it’s future proofing but they were cutting costs not putting the other ports in there. You mean to tell me that Apple didn’t have the ability to put some usb-c ports in as well as some of the other ports?

    Come on, it’s a cash grab. The same way getting rid of the headphone jack on the iPhone is a cash grab. You can say wireless is the future, but there wasn’t really any reason to get rid of it. There’s certainly room for it as has been proven but it saves Apple a few bucks in production.
    I think you're missing the reason everyone is migrating to USB-C and away from legacy ports.

    USB-A is very limited in data transfer speeds, even USB 3. USB-C allows for incredibly fast data transfer and people want speed above all else.

    The power port on the 2015 and older versions could not do the charging speeds available with USB-C. Again, people want speed, especially when charging.

    Removing these ports not only saved space but it simplified things for the user drastically. It allows one connection for everything from video to power to data. It allows for smaller, lighter hardware that if done properly is also safer.

    The issue is this technology is relatively new so there aren't a lot of devices utilizing it yet but they are growing rapidly. USB-C will most likely replace HDMI. It also replaces power cables and storage devices are already making the switch. One cable will handle literally everything you need. no more carrying a USB-A, HDMI, power cable and any other cable or adapter. One universal cable for every single device.

    The issue is people bought these devices without realizing the technology is in its infancy.
    04-22-2018 03:21 PM
  21. donnation's Avatar
    I think you're missing the reason everyone is migrating to USB-C and away from legacy ports.

    USB-A is very limited in data transfer speeds, even USB 3. USB-C allows for incredibly fast data transfer and people want speed above all else.

    The power port on the 2015 and older versions could not do the charging speeds available with USB-C. Again, people want speed, especially when charging.

    Removing these ports not only saved space but it simplified things for the user drastically. It allows one connection for everything from video to power to data. It allows for smaller, lighter hardware that if done properly is also safer.

    The issue is this technology is relatively new so there aren't a lot of devices utilizing it yet but they are growing rapidly. USB-C will most likely replace HDMI. It also replaces power cables and storage devices are already making the switch. One cable will handle literally everything you need. no more carrying a USB-A, HDMI, power cable and any other cable or adapter. One universal cable for every single device.

    The issue is people bought these devices without realizing the technology is in its infancy.
    I think you are also simplifying things. USB-C is great. But you don’t need 4 separate places to charge a device.

    And being in it’s infancy is part of the reason that just having those ports makes no sense. Apple isn’t even ready for it but they made a pro device that won’t connect to everything you need (including your iPhone) without buying other cables and adaptors.

    They could have included the usb-c ports as well as the additional ports. HDMI isn’t being replaced any time in the near future and neither is a card reader. When that time comes these computers will be way outdated anyway so the future proofing argument really doesn’t hold any water.
    bill.davis likes this.
    04-22-2018 03:27 PM
  22. bill.davis's Avatar
    The 2017 MacBook Pro has basically caused me to decide that after using Macs since 1984, I likely won't buy another.

    Ridiculously more expensive and worse, non-upgradable. That might be ok in a low-end Mac, but not a Pro model. In a Pro, it's a death sentence. Unforgivable.

    I literally can't afford a maxed out MBP anymore, either. Which is what I have bought for decades, then upgraded later. And the next step down from a maxed out MBP is LESS than I have now.

    Apple has screwed the pooch. BADLY.

    I might buy a used 2015 MBP or two though, in the hope that after a few more years Apple either drops the prices back again so it's feasible for "the rest of us" to afford to buy a new one every few years, or the prices of flash storage come down enough to accomplish the same thing.

    If the damn 2017 had an SD card slot that might be something.

    But as it stands, if they don't make them upgradable again, or bring prices back into a ridiculous but at least affordable range, they have lost me as a customer after 30+ years.

    Bad move, because I'll take a lot of other customers in my family with me and I am seeing a lot of other similar comments such as ones in this thread, and from long-time customers too. When they start of leave, you really are doomed.
    04-22-2018 03:28 PM
  23. TylerLV76's Avatar
    I think you are also simplifying things. USB-C is great. But you don’t need 4 separate places to charge a device.
    Why not? You now can connect an external graphics card, power and a hard drive at the same time, which would not be uncommon.

    And being in it’s infancy is part of the reason that just having those ports makes no sense. Apple isn’t even ready for it but they made a pro device that won’t connect to everything you need (including your iPhone) without buying other cables and adaptors.
    Thats how technology works. When new technology becomes approved as accepted you either implement it get your customer base used to it or you wait for everyone else to do it. In this case, Apple jumped in around the same time as others like Samsung did. This is how new technology becomes the norm. Same exact way HDMI became the norm.

    Also, you don't need a cable to connect your phone. Wireless iTunes works very well in my experience.

    They could have included the usb-c ports as well as the additional ports. HDMI isn’t being replaced any time in the near future and neither is a card reader. When that time comes these computers will be way outdated anyway so the future proofing argument really doesn’t hold any water.
    That would have drastically raised the cost as well as size, weight and heat of the device. All things people wanted lowered. Instead a $40 adapter can replace all those items while giving you the latest technology.

    As for HDMI being replaced, its all a matter of how fast the industry adopts USB-C. Apple, Samsung, LG doing so moves that adoption rate along substantially as opposed to smaller companies.
    04-22-2018 03:35 PM
  24. TylerLV76's Avatar
    I don't know how old some of you are but if you were around, do you remember when beta max went to vhs and how angry people were? Then it shifted to laser discs (what a disaster) and eventually DVD's and now BluRay? Same for 8 tracks to tape then cd's.

    Technology evolves and when you get in on the ground floor there are some adjustments needed. Companies can only support old technology (USB-A is very old) for so long and then eventually have to rip the bandaid off and embrace the new technology or they get left behind. Just look at when Apple went from the 30 pin power cord to the lightning cord. People were outraged because they had become used to it.
    04-22-2018 03:46 PM
  25. donnation's Avatar
    Why not? You now can connect an external graphics card, power and a hard drive at the same time, which would not be uncommon.



    Thats how technology works. When new technology becomes approved as accepted you either implement it get your customer base used to it or you wait for everyone else to do it. In this case, Apple jumped in around the same time as others like Samsung did. This is how new technology becomes the norm. Same exact way HDMI became the norm.

    Also, you don't need a cable to connect your phone. Wireless iTunes works very well in my experience.



    That would have drastically raised the cost as well as size, weight and heat of the device. All things people wanted lowered. Instead a $40 adapter can replace all those items while giving you the latest technology.

    As for HDMI being replaced, its all a matter of how fast the industry adopts USB-C. Apple, Samsung, LG doing so moves that adoption rate along substantially as opposed to smaller companies.
    You can do all of that on older MacBooks without just USB-C.


    Sadly, you can’t wirelessly charge an iPhone by sitting it on top of your MacBook Pro. You need a USB-C to lightning, which is a cable that Apple doesn’t ship with their phones. Interesting you mention wireless transfer. I agree that’s great (albeit slower) but you can’t actually do that until you physically connect the devices first so you’ll need an adaptor or additional cable.

    And yes, I realize an adaptor can do all of that. My whole point is that it sure was nice not needing an adaptor for every single thing I wanted to connect to my MacBook and not having to spend additional money for the already most expensive laptop on the market.
    bill.davis likes this.
    04-22-2018 03:52 PM
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