1. DayThyme's Avatar
    How would I do it though? I get the warning that I have to call Verizon to set it up on my account when I try to use it. I called Verizon before when I first say the ruling and they told me that I still had to pay. I argued with them about the ruling and they said no way. I don't see anyway to do it without jailbreaking my phone.
    You can't do it unless you jailbreak your iPhone. That's how this discussion got in the jailbreak section.

    Verizon's position is that they are not going to provide functionality on your device that allows you to tether if you have unlimited data. That is fine and not in violation of their block c licenses. They don't have to. They instead ask you to pay another $30 for that functionality. That is fine for them to ask, but I don't have to take them up on their offer.

    And while Verizon can ask you to pay another $30, what Verizon can't do is stop you from using an app that will let you tether and not pay the $30 - that, as the consent decree shows, is a violation of their block c open access restrictions. Problem is that Apple won't allow apps like that in their app store so to get them you have to jailbreak your device. Also, I am sure that Apple's iOS wouldn't allow an app like that to run so you would need to jailbreak not only to get the app, but for the app to function.

    Google allows these types of apps in the playstore and in fact, that is what the consent decree was all about - Verizon telling Google to take those apps out of the playstore. Unequivocably, Verizon is not allowed to do that and was fined $1.25M for doing that. BUT the latest Android OS, Kit Kat, patched the exploit that the apps use so you have to root to be able to do it on Android Kit Kat. Moreover, the more Google implements Selinux in the Android OS, the harder it will be to root without unlocking your bootloader.

    So while it is still possible to do this, even Google is moving towards securing their OS to the point that you will have to have an unlockable bootloader to do it.

    Please understand that only Verizon (the licensee) is under the block c open access restrictions. Apple and Google are not and neither are the Android phone manufacturers. So whatever Apple, Google, Samsung, etc. do of their own accord is not relevant to the block c restrictions. But Verizon cannot pressure them to do things that violate this provision:

    Licensees offering service on spectrum subject to this section shall not deny, limit, or restrict the ability of their customers to use the devices and applications of their choice on the licensee's C Block network, except:


    (1) Insofar as such use would not be compliant with published technical standards reasonably necessary for the management or protection of the licensee's network, or

    (2) As required to comply with statute or applicable government regulation.
    That is what the consent decree was about, too. It is not just that Verizon can't do it themselves; they can't ask Google or Apple or the Android phone manufacturers to do it, either. But nothing stops Google or Apple or the Android phone manufacturers from doing it on their own because they aren't the licensee of the block c spectrum.
    Last edited by DayThyme; 12-24-2013 at 11:19 AM.
    12-24-2013 10:59 AM
  2. kch50428's Avatar
    Or, one can go a much, much simpler route: Use available online account management tools Verizon offers, review your historical data use, and switch to one of Verizon's current plans that is enough to cover your use and includes tethering... Sorry to go all Captain Obvious here...
    12-24-2013 11:24 AM
  3. DayThyme's Avatar
    Or, one can go a much, much simpler route: Use available online account management tools Verizon offers, review your historical data use, and switch to one of Verizon's current plans that is enough to cover your use and includes tethering... Sorry to go all Captain Obvious here...
    The problem with that approach is that I can't predict the future. The amount of data I am using now may or may not remain constant as new apps/technologies are developed.
    12-24-2013 11:41 AM
  4. acerace113's Avatar
    Just out of curiosity, what would you do if Verizon changed your unlimited data plan to the 6 GB data plan on you without warning?

    (I'm just asking cause that's what bell, Rogers & telus did in Canada without warning)


    Sent from my 5th gen iPod Touch or iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    12-24-2013 11:41 AM
  5. kch50428's Avatar
    The problem with that approach is that I can't predict the future. The amount of data I am using now may or may not remain constant as new apps/technologies are developed.
    It's called learning to live within your means... you either adjust your data use such that the bulk of it occurs when you have wifi available, or - change your data plan to cover your use. Once again, apologies for going Captain Obvious...
    12-24-2013 11:48 AM
  6. natasftw's Avatar
    Or, one can go a much, much simpler route: Use available online account management tools Verizon offers, review your historical data use, and switch to one of Verizon's current plans that is enough to cover your use and includes tethering... Sorry to go all Captain Obvious here...
    It's called learning to live within your means... you either adjust your data use such that the bulk of it occurs when you have wifi available, or - change your data plan to cover your use. Once again, apologies for going Captain Obvious...
    You should avoid using the term Captain Obvious to describe yourself. It's not fitting. He's already broken apart his grandfathered plan versus the current Verizon offering. His plan is $20/mo cheaper and includes unlimited data. The new plan includes 2GB. It's not an "obvious" solution to pay more to receive less. It's also not an obvious solution to pay more to force yourself to change your habits. If the alternative is to pay less and not have to strictly manage the habits, the obvious answer is to remain on the current course.

    Being condescending only works when you're making sense. You're not.

    They are not blocking the apps they are blocking the tethering. Talk about my reading comprehension, from the blurb you posted:

    Though it's not explicitly stated, we assume that means those of you lucky enough to be grandfathered in to the unlimited data plans are left out.

    Which is what I was saying all along. Unlimited data plan users are required to pay a fee to tether. If you read my posts.
    I'll reply to this here so ace can continue to represent his suggestions as more than just his suggestions in the other thread. You want to applaud your reading comprehension and suggest mine is failing and use THAT as evidence!? Let's evaluate that.

    They were attempting to block third-party tethering apps. Doing so was found to be in violation of their license. For those with reading comprehension, that means they are not allowed to act on customers using a third-party tethering app.

    The line before the one you included and bolded claimed the FCC ruled they couldn't do this on a "usage-based pricing plan." The line you specifically included used a keyword your amazing reading comprehension missed: "assumed." They assume a plan priced on unlimited usage doesn't fall under the category of usage. That's a blogger's assumption and it's the ONLY thing you have to support your claim. I've read your posts. They've been beyond silly. The most worthwhile argument you have to support your argument is something I gave you. Even then, it's nothing more than a blogger's assumption.

    Continue feeling righteous because you're not committing an imaginary crime against Verizon if you please. Just understand that those of us that understand the terms we're using will continue to see you as someone throwing a tantrum over a non-issue.
    DayThyme likes this.
    12-24-2013 12:18 PM
  7. natasftw's Avatar
    Just out of curiosity, what would you do if Verizon changed your unlimited data plan to the 6 GB data plan on you without warning?

    (I'm just asking cause that's what bell, Rogers & telus did in Canada without warning)


    Sent from my 5th gen iPod Touch or iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    In this event, those with the unlimited plan wouldn't really have much they could do. After the 2 year agreement, it's a month-to-month contract.
    DayThyme likes this.
    12-24-2013 12:19 PM
  8. acerace113's Avatar
    In this event, those with the unlimited plan wouldn't really have much they could do. After the 2 year agreement, it's a month-to-month contract.
    Should've mentioned that everyone with unlimited data (including people off contract) got changed to a 6 GB data plan in Canada but it was the same price the unlimited plan.


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    12-24-2013 12:39 PM
  9. i7guy's Avatar
    Do you even understand it's against Verizon's t and c to circumvent their policies? Talk about entitlement.

    Nobody is talking about blocking tethering apps, I am talking specifically about circumventing the fee and 5 gig limit for unlimited customers on lte.

    If you are telling me you are gonna pay the fee and get that feature added to you unlimited data account and then use the tethering app of your choice, I will eat internet humble pie. But that is not the case, this is about circumventing adding the feature to avoid the charges and the overage. That's stealing by any name.

    Did you even read the ruling yourself?Not a peep about unlimited customers.

    I know you're not a lawyer....you just play one on the internet.

    Btw. Since you quoting the FCC decree, does anyone believe they have the right to resell LTE bandwidth through their tethering , since the "consent decree" says so?
    12-24-2013 12:39 PM
  10. DayThyme's Avatar
    Just out of curiosity, what would you do if Verizon changed your unlimited data plan to the 6 GB data plan on you without warning?

    (I'm just asking cause that's what bell, Rogers & telus did in Canada without warning)
    Depends on if I were in contract or out of contract. If I were out of contract when they did it, I would accept it as nothing I could do about it. They had discontinued my plan after my contract had expired.

    In contract, the issue is more complex and in the US depends on what state you are in.

    Were you in contract or off contract when this was done to you?
    12-24-2013 06:27 PM
  11. DayThyme's Avatar
    It's called learning to live within your means... you either adjust your data use such that the bulk of it occurs when you have wifi available, or - change your data plan to cover your use. Once again, apologies for going Captain Obvious...
    Or stick with my approach - hang onto my unlimited data as long as I can.
    12-24-2013 06:28 PM
  12. DayThyme's Avatar
    Should've mentioned that everyone with unlimited data (including people off contract) got changed to a 6 GB data plan in Canada but it was the same price the unlimited plan.
    This is why Verizon tries to argue that data is a feature and not part of the contract. Whether or not that distinction has legal merit or not depends on which state's laws apply to the contract.

    If it ever were to happen and I were on contract when it did, I would start by reading the contract to determine if there was a choice of law provision in it. And then look to federal law, my state's law and if there were a choice of law provision in the contract, that state's law. It wouldn't be a simple task, but I assure you if Verizon ever does that, more than a few class action plaintiff's lawyers would be racing each other to the courthouse to file suit.

    I am sure Verizon realizes this and this is why they have chosen to encourage people to move off unlimited data on their own by restricting the subsidized phones.
    12-24-2013 06:38 PM
  13. acerace113's Avatar
    This is why Verizon tries to argue that data is a feature and not part of the contract. Whether or not that distinction has legal merit or not depends on which state's laws apply to the contract.

    If it ever were to happen and I were on contract when it did, I would start by reading the contract to determine if there was a choice of law provision in it. And then look to federal law, my state's law and if there were a choice of law provision in the contract, that state's law. It wouldn't be a simple task, but I assure you if Verizon ever does that, more than a few class action plaintiff's lawyers would be racing each other to the courthouse to file suit.

    I am sure Verizon realizes this and this is why they have chosen to encourage people to move off unlimited data on their own by restricting the subsidized phones.
    From what I understand, via customer support, plans are tied to the phone not the number here in Canada, but if you go to a different carrier the plan doesn't carry over but the number can.


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    12-24-2013 06:53 PM
  14. acerace113's Avatar
    Depends on if I were in contract or out of contract. If I were out of contract when they did it, I would accept it as nothing I could do about it. They had discontinued my plan after my contract had expired.

    In contract, the issue is more complex and in the US depends on what state you are in.

    Were you in contract or off contract when this was done to you?
    I have not experienced this myself but other people that I know had this happen to them but the carriers waived all overage fees for 1 or 2 months so people can get use to it and they kept the new data plan the same price as the unlimited one (which if I remember correctly was $20 or $25/month)


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    12-24-2013 06:59 PM
  15. DayThyme's Avatar
    From what I understand, via customer support, plans are tied to the phone not the number here in Canada, but if you go to a different carrier the plan doesn't carry over but the number can.
    I am not sure I understand.

    Here in the US, I have a contract with Verizon for 2 years and at expiration it goes month-to-month. Once it goes month-to-month, starting at the next month, Verizon can make any changes they want and I can stop my service with them and port my phone number to another carrier.

    But during the 2 year contract, Verizon cannot make any changes to my plan unless there is something in the contract that allows this. When I just scanned the current customer agreement dated 11/21/13, which is the one I am currently under, it does say they can throttle. However, they have never throttled on the 4G LTE network, only the 3G network and I believe that is because they are worried the block c open access restrictions prevent them from doing so. What they are doing now is booting people to the 3G network, where they can and do throttle, but still not throttling on the 4G LTE network (again I believe because they think their license restrictions prevent them from doing it).

    Verizon Customer Agreement
    12-24-2013 07:06 PM
  16. acerace113's Avatar
    This is why Verizon tries to argue that data is a feature and not part of the contract. Whether or not that distinction has legal merit or not depends on which state's laws apply to the contract.

    If it ever were to happen and I were on contract when it did, I would start by reading the contract to determine if there was a choice of law provision in it. And then look to federal law, my state's law and if there were a choice of law provision in the contract, that state's law. It wouldn't be a simple task, but I assure you if Verizon ever does that, more than a few class action plaintiff's lawyers would be racing each other to the courthouse to file suit.

    I am sure Verizon realizes this and this is why they have chosen to encourage people to move off unlimited data on their own by restricting the subsidized phones.
    Also the law is Canada is run by the CRTC which has board member that were once part of bell, Rogers, telus. So here in Canada people get screwed by carriers all the time and up until recently the government has stepped in to correct and change things.


    Sent from my 5th gen iPod Touch or iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    12-24-2013 07:07 PM
  17. acerace113's Avatar
    I am not sure I understand.

    Here in the US, I have a contract with Verizon for 2 years and at expiration it goes month-to-month. Once it goes month-to-month, starting at the next month, Verizon can make any changes they want and I can stop my service with them and port my phone number to another carrier.

    But during the 2 year contract, Verizon cannot make any changes to my plan unless there is something in the contract that allows this. When I just scanned the current customer agreement dated 11/21/13, which is the one I am currently under, it does say they can throttle. However, they have never throttled on the 4G LTE network, only the 3G network and I believe that is because they are worried the block c open access restrictions prevent them from doing so. What they are doing now is booting people to the 3G network, where they can and do throttle, but still not throttling on the 4G LTE network (again I believe because they think their license restrictions prevent them from doing it).

    Verizon Customer Agreement
    Here in Canada carriers are allowed to change plans without notice when you are under contract.

    Trust me you don't want US carriers to copy what the Canadian carriers have been doing for years.


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    12-24-2013 07:10 PM
  18. DayThyme's Avatar
    I have not experienced this myself but other people that I know had this happen to them but the carriers waived all overage fees for 1 or 2 months so people can get use to it and they kept the new data plan the same price as the unlimited one (which if I remember correctly was $20 or $25/month)
    I am certain that would result in a class action lawsuit in the US. Verizon would take the position that data is a feature they can modify at any time. I would have to spend more time thinking about it and researching it to know how good of an argument they have.

    But even if it were a good argument, the suit would likely get filed in a plaintiff friendly jurisdiction and the costs to Verizon to litigate it would exceed the costs of buying out the unlimited data contracts or just letting the subscribers keep unlimited data until the contracts expire.

    Notably, the upgrade transfer process I have posted about elsewhere results in your unlimited data contract getting renewed for 2 years, which is another benefit to doing it.
    12-24-2013 07:13 PM
  19. DayThyme's Avatar
    Trust me you don't want US carriers to copy what the Canadian carriers have been doing for years.
    they wouldn't be able to do it here without getting sued out of business. Its why I still have unthrottled, unlimited data on Verizon. If they could take it away from us while we were under contract, they would.

    Do you know if lawyers can take cases on contingency fee in Canada? If not, that is why big businesses get away with that kind of stuff in canada.
    12-24-2013 07:15 PM
  20. acerace113's Avatar
    I am certain that would result in a class action lawsuit in the US. Verizon would take the position that data is a feature they can modify at any time. I would have to spend more time thinking about it and researching it to know how good of an argument they have.

    But even if it were a good argument, the suit would likely get filed in a plaintiff friendly jurisdiction and the costs to Verizon to litigate it would exceed the costs of buying out the unlimited data contracts or just letting the subscribers keep unlimited data until the contracts expire.

    Notably, the upgrade transfer process I have posted about elsewhere results in your unlimited data contract getting renewed for 2 years, which is another benefit to doing it.
    And that is exactly why Canadians wanted Verizon to come to Canada


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    12-24-2013 07:19 PM
  21. acerace113's Avatar
    Do you know if lawyers can take cases on contingency fee in Canada? If not, that is why big businesses get away with that kind of stuff in canada.
    There would be no case cause the carriers put in the contracts that they are allowed to change your plan at any time without notice. If it's in the contract and you sign it without reading it then you can't do anything.


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    12-24-2013 07:23 PM
  22. DayThyme's Avatar
    There would be no case cause the carriers put in the contracts that they are allowed to change your plan at any time without notice. If it's in the contract and you sign it without reading it then you can't do anything.
    In the US, you have the legal concept of an adhesion contract - one in which one party has no power to negotiate the terms. In a situation where the government has given exclusive licenses to portions of the EM spectrum to carriers and subscribers have no power to negotiate the terms of the contract, it would be deemed an adhesion contract.

    Adhesion contracts are treated very differently under the law in the US than those that are negotiated at arm's length. Courts can rewrite adhesion contracts in ways they can't if both parties are considered close equals in terms of bargaining power. Hence the lawsuits if Verizon would try to eliminate unlimited data on contract even if the contract says they could, and this is why Verizon isn't doing it (not because they are good guys).

    I am ignorant of Canadian law other than to know Canadian law shares the same common law ancestry as 49 of the US states, in that it is derived from English common law. But the US has diverged so much from the English common law at this point, I am sure that there are significant differences between US and Canadian law, too.

    I did quickly research whether Canada has contingency fee attorneys and you do, but they are far more restricted than in the US, notably, in some provinces (maybe in all?) they have to have their fees approved by a court and must charge hourly rates if they lose. Very, very different than the US.
    12-24-2013 07:33 PM
  23. acerace113's Avatar
    In the US, you have the legal concept of an adhesion contract - one in which one party has no power to negotiate the terms. In a situation where the government has given exclusive licenses to portions of the EM spectrum to carriers and subscribers have no power to negotiate the terms of the contract, it would be deemed an adhesion contract.

    Adhesion contracts are treated very differently under the law in the US than those that are negotiated at arm's length. Courts can rewrite adhesion contracts in ways they can't if both parties are considered close equals in terms of bargaining power. Hence the lawsuits if Verizon would try to eliminate unlimited data on contract even if the contract says they could, and this is why Verizon isn't doing it (not because they are good guys).

    I am ignorant of Canadian law other than to know Canadian law shares the same common law ancestry as 49 of the US states, in that it is derived from English common law. But the US has diverged so much from the English common law at this point, I am sure that there are significant differences between US and Canadian law, too.

    I did quickly research whether Canada has contingency fee attorneys and you do, but they are far more restricted than in the US, notably, in some provinces (maybe in all?) they have to have their fees approved by a court and must charge hourly rates if they lose. Very, very different than the US.
    Yea... That's why no one has really challenged the carriers here in Canada... But the Canadian government has stepped in to change the way carrier contracts work. It's a start but it will take some time.

    By the looks of it the US carriers are more flexible when it comes to contracts than Canadian carriers. (Maybe that's why Verizon pulled out of Canada)


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    12-24-2013 07:49 PM
  24. acerace113's Avatar
    But in terms of jailbreaking to use a tethering app to get around Verizon's requirements, I personally don't support it but I'm not going to stop you from using it nor argue against you using it.


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    12-24-2013 07:55 PM
  25. DayThyme's Avatar
    But the Canadian government has stepped in to change the way carrier contracts work. It's a start but it will take some time.
    Well, just like in the US, the Canadian people get the government they vote for. And the more involved you become in your political system, the more you can influence it. Younger people don't flex their political muscles enough! You have to get involved to get things changed.


    By the looks of it the US carriers are more flexible when it comes to contracts than Canadian carriers.
    The US carriers are only as flexible as they absolutely have to be given our laws and their licenses. I assure you, if Verizon could screw us without fear of lawsuits, they would.
    12-24-2013 07:58 PM
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