Jailbreaking a Verizon iPhone to Tether With Unlimited Data

[acerace113]

Do you know if lawyers can take cases on contingency fee in Canada? If not, that is why big businesses get away with that kind of stuff in canada.

There would be no case cause the carriers put in the contracts that they are allowed to change your plan at any time without notice. If it's in the contract and you sign it without reading it then you can't do anything.


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[DayThyme]

There would be no case cause the carriers put in the contracts that they are allowed to change your plan at any time without notice. If it's in the contract and you sign it without reading it then you can't do anything.

In the US, you have the legal concept of an adhesion contract - one in which one party has no power to negotiate the terms. In a situation where the government has given exclusive licenses to portions of the EM spectrum to carriers and subscribers have no power to negotiate the terms of the contract, it would be deemed an adhesion contract.

Adhesion contracts are treated very differently under the law in the US than those that are negotiated at arm's length. Courts can rewrite adhesion contracts in ways they can't if both parties are considered close equals in terms of bargaining power. Hence the lawsuits if Verizon would try to eliminate unlimited data on contract even if the contract says they could, and this is why Verizon isn't doing it (not because they are good guys).

I am ignorant of Canadian law other than to know Canadian law shares the same common law ancestry as 49 of the US states, in that it is derived from English common law. But the US has diverged so much from the English common law at this point, I am sure that there are significant differences between US and Canadian law, too.

I did quickly research whether Canada has contingency fee attorneys and you do, but they are far more restricted than in the US, notably, in some provinces (maybe in all?) they have to have their fees approved by a court and must charge hourly rates if they lose. Very, very different than the US.

 

[acerace113]

In the US, you have the legal concept of an adhesion contract - one in which one party has no power to negotiate the terms. In a situation where the government has given exclusive licenses to portions of the EM spectrum to carriers and subscribers have no power to negotiate the terms of the contract, it would be deemed an adhesion contract.

Adhesion contracts are treated very differently under the law in the US than those that are negotiated at arm's length. Courts can rewrite adhesion contracts in ways they can't if both parties are considered close equals in terms of bargaining power. Hence the lawsuits if Verizon would try to eliminate unlimited data on contract even if the contract says they could, and this is why Verizon isn't doing it (not because they are good guys).

I am ignorant of Canadian law other than to know Canadian law shares the same common law ancestry as 49 of the US states, in that it is derived from English common law. But the US has diverged so much from the English common law at this point, I am sure that there are significant differences between US and Canadian law, too.

I did quickly research whether Canada has contingency fee attorneys and you do, but they are far more restricted than in the US, notably, in some provinces (maybe in all?) they have to have their fees approved by a court and must charge hourly rates if they lose. Very, very different than the US.

Yea... That's why no one has really challenged the carriers here in Canada... But the Canadian government has stepped in to change the way carrier contracts work. It's a start but it will take some time.

By the looks of it the US carriers are more flexible when it comes to contracts than Canadian carriers. (Maybe that's why Verizon pulled out of Canada)


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[acerace113]

But in terms of jailbreaking to use a tethering app to get around Verizon's requirements, I personally don't support it but I'm not going to stop you from using it nor argue against you using it.


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[DayThyme]

But the Canadian government has stepped in to change the way carrier contracts work. It's a start but it will take some time.

Well, just like in the US, the Canadian people get the government they vote for. And the more involved you become in your political system, the more you can influence it. Younger people don't flex their political muscles enough! You have to get involved to get things changed.

By the looks of it the US carriers are more flexible when it comes to contracts than Canadian carriers.

The US carriers are only as flexible as they absolutely have to be given our laws and their licenses. I assure you, if Verizon could screw us without fear of lawsuits, they would.

 

[DayThyme]

But in terms of jailbreaking to use a tethering app to get around Verizon's requirements, I personally don't support it but I'm not going to stop you from using it nor argue against you using it.

You are missing the point. Verizon can "require" anything they want to but it doesn't mean that they have any legal right to "require" it nor does it mean that they aren't violating their licenses by making such a "requirement." And any such "requirement" that is in violation of their licenses is void as a matter of law.

But someone has to complain to the FCC and pursue it and at the end of the day, Verizon doesn't have to offer unlimited data to us once we are off contract, so there really is not point in pursuing it. Rather, I will continue to do what is perfectly legal and in line with Verizon's licenses and confront anyone who tries to tell me I am not allowed to do this with facts, logic, sound reasoning and the law.

Verizon has violated the terms of their licenses in the past and the current Nexus 7 LTE controversy indicates they are not afraid to continue to do so.

 

[acerace113]

You are missing the point. Verizon can "require" anything they want to but it doesn't mean that they have any legal right to "require" it nor does it mean that they aren't violating their licenses by making such a "requirement." And any such "requirement" that is in violation of their licenses is void as a matter of law.

But someone has to complain to the FCC and pursue it and at the end of the day, Verizon doesn't have to offer unlimited data to us once we are off contract, so there really is not point in pursuing it. Rather, I will continue to do what is perfectly legal and in line with Verizon's licenses and confront anyone who tries to tell me I am not allowed to do this with facts, logic, sound reasoning and the law.

Verizon has violated the terms of their licenses in the past and the current Nexus 7 LTE controversy indicates they are not afraid to continue to do so.

This is why I won't argue against you cause this is very confusing to customers. One side says one thing and the other is saying something different. The problem is customers are not aware of this and just do what the carrier says to do. You know what you are allowed to do and that's what Verizon is mad at.


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[DayThyme]

You know what you are allowed to do and that's what Verizon is mad at.

I don't think they are mad; they are just a corporation that in a capitalistic society will try to make as much money as it can. They will push the envelope when it comes to profits as far as they can and will only be constrained by the law when they are forced to be.

What is so odd to me is that posters on a jailbreaking forum of all things will defend corporate america against its subscribers. I pay for my unlimited data every month on auto pay no less. I am never even late at paying. I don't steal anything. I pay for what I use.

 

[acerace113]

I don't think they are mad; they are just a corporation that in a capitalistic society will try to make as much money as it can. They will push the envelope when it comes to profits as far as they can and will only be constrained by the law when they are forced to be.

Every company pushes the envelope until there is a problem or the law says otherwise.

What is so odd to me is that posters on a jailbreaking forum of all things will defend corporate america against its subscribers. I pay for my unlimited data every month on auto pay no less. I am never even late at paying. I don't steal anything. I pay for what I use.

The way I see it you can use your unlimited data however you want on your phone. I'm terms of tether via a 3rd party app I'm not saying anything about that.


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[DayThyme]

I'm terms of tether via a 3rd party app I'm not saying anything about that.

well get ready for some criticism then. I walk you through, hold your hand and spoon feed you all of the relevant facts and law and you can't form an opinion? really? lol!

Seriously, if you can't use your powers of deductive reasoning and your googling ability to figure out what the legal issue is here and how the law would be applied in this case after all I have posted, I caution anyone from listening to your jailbreak advice.

The law is not rocket science, but yes, you do actually have to read the stuff, pay attention when you do and think about it critically. But I would think anyone giving out jailbreaking advice would have those skills.

 

[i7guy]

Every company pushes the envelope until there is a problem or the law says otherwise.



The way I see it you can use your unlimited data however you want on your phone. I'm terms of tether via a 3rd party app I'm not saying anything about that.


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The setiment of ignoring verizons t and c to avoid paying the fee would be the same as you splitting your cable signal to give your neighboor free tv and internet. I mean its my bandwidth i pay for it and i can do what i want, even though it's against the cable companys' t and c. Right?

Theft of service is theft of service. With the cable company however, i've read where the fbi was called in to make arrests for theft of service.

I agree about lte, stream 24x7 on your phone no harm no foul. Bypass verizon's fee and loose caps for tethering is a whole other matter. You think VZW is going to let that happen? They will figure a way to screw the whole lot of us because of the actions of a small number or maybe large number of individuals.

 

[acerace113]

well get ready for some criticism then. I walk you through, hold your hand and spoon feed you all of the relevant facts and law and you can't form an opinion? really? lol!

Seriously, if you can't use your powers of deductive reasoning and your googling ability to figure out what the legal issue is here and how the law would be applied in this case after all I have posted, I caution anyone from listening to your jailbreak advice.

The law is not rocket science, but yes, you do actually have to read the stuff, pay attention when you do and think about it critically. But I would think anyone giving out jailbreaking advice would have those skills.

I just re-read everything and I did miss read some of the wording since I was doing other stuff at the same time (that was my fault) and your posts are 100% correct.

And if you want my opinion; if you pay for tethering and just want more control and advanced settings for you personal hotspot then sure download a 3rd party app, but if you don't pay for tethering or it's not included in your plan then use a 3rd party app at your own risk with other carriers. By law you should be ok though with Verizon and shouldn't be an issue. I would still recommend people read the laws in there own country before using 3rd party tethering apps though just to make sure it's ok but I'm not responsible if you get caught using those apps when your not suppose to.

People have different views on this and this discussion will go on forever but by the looks of it if your on Verizon they shouldn't be able to do anything about it, and if they do you can "take matters into your own hands".


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[acerace113]

The setiment of ignoring verizons t and c to avoid paying the fee would be the same as you splitting your cable signal to give your neighboor free tv and internet. I mean its my bandwidth i pay for it and i can do what i want, even though it's against the cable companys' t and c. Right?

Theft of service is theft of service. With the cable company however, i've read where the fbi was called in to make arrests for theft of service.

I agree about lte, stream 24x7 on your phone no harm no foul. Bypass verizon's fee and loose caps for tethering is a whole other matter. You think VZW is going to let that happen? They will figure a way to screw the whole lot of us because of the actions of a small number or maybe large number of individuals.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't a law bypass Verizon's t & c? Plus isn't the Terms and conditions that apply to the plan are the ones that were written at the time of signing the contract and not the ones added after?


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[DayThyme]

Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't a law bypass Verizon's t & c?

Absolutely. Anyone can put anything they want in a contract. Doesn't mean it is a legally enforceable contract provision.

That's the whole point here - Verizon does things that violate their licenses.

 

[natasftw]

Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't a law bypass Verizon's t & c? Plus isn't the Terms and conditions that apply to the plan are the ones that were written at the time of signing the contract and not the ones added after?


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You're partially correct. The law definitely takes precedent over Verizon's terms. Anyone on Verizon with unlimited data is on a month to month contract at this point. As they could walk away without penalty, Verizon could easily expect to uphold the newest version of their terms. That's the glory of month to month.

Regardless, the cable analogy was ****-poor. Tethering your phone is like splitting your cable to go into multiple rooms in your home. The FBI has never been called in for such a thing.

 

[acerace113]

You're partially correct. The law definitely takes precedent over Verizon's terms. Anyone on Verizon with unlimited data is on a month to month contract at this point. As they could walk away without penalty, Verizon could easily expect to uphold the newest version of their terms. That's the glory of month to month.

Regardless, the cable analogy was ****-poor. Tethering your phone is like splitting your cable to go into multiple rooms in your home. The FBI has never been called in for such a thing.

Based on the logic of that cable analogy that was posted that would mean that wireless routers are illegal also IMO.


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[DayThyme]

Anyone on Verizon with unlimited data is on a month to month contract at this point.

Not if you do the upgrade transfer. I just did this on 2 verizon unlimited data lines in november and december. You transfer your unlimited data upgrade to a basic phone or tiered data phone line on the same account. Then upgrade on that line. It extends the contract on the unlimited data line by 2 years.

I am now the proud owner of 2 unlimited data lines with contract end dates at the end of 2015

This is verizon's system. I didn't tell them to configure their system to do this. They allow it; I just do what they allow.

 

[bobbob1016]

"(1) Insofar as such use would not be compliant with published technical standards reasonably necessary for the management or protection of the licensee's network..."

They protect their network by not allowing unlimited tethering. Case and point, they are not violating anything by kicking you off for tethering, without $30, on an unlimited plan. The "applications" part is because they don't understand the tech as well. They don't mean an app, that basically means net neutrality. They can't slow Netflix, unless every user goes to Netflix at the same time and it messes with their bandwidth. Also, torrents.

 

[i7guy]

This is really a simple question getting a yes or no answer...do you have a personal hotspot that comes with your unjailbroken iphone 5S? If yes, while I'm surprised, putting in the tethering app of your choice is perfectly legal. If not, well you know my stance.

VZW does have a confusing maze of services and plans, for example:

- My old blackberry with unlimited data had to have the old $20 VZW access plan to tether.
- Family's iphone 4's (iphone 4 not 4s) with unlimited data all come with personal hotspot enabled, at no additional charge.
- My fully paid 5S, which I bought outright to replace my BB and to keep unlimited data does not come with personal hotspot enabled. I could legally enable it at a cost of $30/mo. (As a side benefit I'm on month to month, so an iphone 6 acquisition is not out of the question)

If personal hotspot is enabled due to some upgrade perk on your 5c or 5s, what is being done seems is within guidelines/law/terms and conditions. If personal hotspot is not enabled and you are able to "game/hack" the system then just admit this is what is happening.

 

[bobbob1016]

This is really a simple question getting a yes or no answer...do you have a personal hotspot that comes with your unjailbroken iphone 5S? If yes, while I'm surprised, putting in the tethering app of your choice is perfectly legal. If not, well you know my stance.

I thought OP did at first. Wouldn't have to talk about the FCC ruling or whatever if it was a legit way to get tethering. And honestly, not sure how many people use a different iOS tethering app when they already have it on their plan TBH. I mean, yeah, could have different features, but yeah.