1. kch50428's Avatar
    Horse. Dead. Beating. Stop.
    iOS Gravity likes this.
    12-30-2013 05:29 PM
  2. bobbob1016's Avatar
    I'm not sure you understand how data works.

    Your car analogy only works if the original user was using 1Mbps to begin with. That's a truck 20 times longer than a typical car.

    If they were already pushing the max at any point, it's the same as an "oversized load" that's the width of 20 cars. So which creates more "traffic?" Both equally block all 20 lanes.

    Either way. That's not a relevant point. We're not discussing the data. We're discussing Mobile Hotspot. If I were one of the unlimited users and paid the additional fee for Mobile Hotspot, would you still view sharing data as theft? If so, it has absolutely nothing to do with the Mobile Hotspot fee. If you don't, then I'm not sure where you're basing your claim of theft on.

    I read your entire statement. I just understand telecommunications so I understand how the tunnel works well enough not to believe the 20 car length truck analogy.
    Maybe I didn't concisely say it, but "One truck that is 20 cars long" presupposes that the one "truck" is 20Mbps, vs 20 "cars" that are 1/20th the length of the truck, or 1Mbps per car. I'm going to avoid being insulting here, but I'm not sure how much understanding is meant by "I just understand telecommunications".

    Edit: Just saw this, my bad, stopping "Horse. Dead. Beating. Stop."
    12-30-2013 06:00 PM
  3. i7guy's Avatar
    Horse. Dead. Beating. Stop.
    Awww. cmon, the horse isn't quite that dead yet...
    12-30-2013 09:06 PM
  4. kch50428's Avatar
    Awww. cmon, the horse isn't quite that dead yet...
    Yeah, it is. No minds are going to change... Especially when at least one of those minds think others have lesser grey matter...
    iOS Gravity likes this.
    12-30-2013 09:12 PM
  5. DayThyme's Avatar
    Yeah, it is. No minds are going to change... Especially when at least one of those minds think others have lesser grey matter...
    Just like people have various levels of physical capabilities, as this thread shows people also have various levels of cognitive capacities. However, some of you are smart enough to get it, and do get it, but can't admit when you are wrong.

    In other words, while some here clearly do have lesser grey matter, others are just sore losers and will make ridiculous arguments just to save face.
    12-30-2013 11:05 PM
  6. natasftw's Avatar
    Maybe I didn't concisely say it, but "One truck that is 20 cars long" presupposes that the one "truck" is 20Mbps, vs 20 "cars" that are 1/20th the length of the truck, or 1Mbps per car. I'm going to avoid being insulting here, but I'm not sure how much understanding is meant by "I just understand telecommunications".

    Edit: Just saw this, my bad, stopping "Horse. Dead. Beating. Stop."
    You can try to be insulting.

    The one truck is NOT 20Mbps. It's 1Mbps for 20 seconds. You said it concisely. You didn't say it accurately.

    I graduate in May with an EE degree with a focus on wireless communications. I have a pretty solid understanding of telecommunications. The term Mbps means "Megabits per second." If the truck is 20Mbps, it's using the entire width of the tunnel in that given second. If it's 20 length's long but doesn't use any additional bandwidth compared to the "car," it's using 20 seconds worth of the same 1Mbps. If you'd like to insult me for being aware of this, feel free. It won't hurt my feelings any.
    12-31-2013 03:29 AM
  7. natasftw's Avatar
    The bottom line is if the fee is circumvented it is stealing. If the masses do this and game the system, we all will be losers.

    Over and out.
    The bottom line is you've never once been able to explain this in your own terms without saying "the T&C think so." I'm going to agree with Keith. I've asked you multiple times to explain it and you're unwilling to do so. If you'd like to continue this, you're free to message me.
    12-31-2013 03:30 AM
  8. i7guy's Avatar
    The bottom line is you've never once been able to explain this in your own terms without saying "the T&C think so." I'm going to agree with Keith. I've asked you multiple times to explain it and you're unwilling to do so. If you'd like to continue this, you're free to message me.
    I agree with Keith, this topic has run its course. It's been a fun internet exchange, showing most of us have a maturity level of adults, some unfortunately have a maturity age of said shoe size. This voluminous discussion would probably have been a 3 minute discussion face to face.
    12-31-2013 06:31 AM
  9. bobbob1016's Avatar
    You can try to be insulting.

    The one truck is NOT 20Mbps. It's 1Mbps for 20 seconds. You said it concisely. You didn't say it accurately.

    I graduate in May with an EE degree with a focus on wireless communications. I have a pretty solid understanding of telecommunications. The term Mbps means "Megabits per second." If the truck is 20Mbps, it's using the entire width of the tunnel in that given second. If it's 20 length's long but doesn't use any additional bandwidth compared to the "car," it's using 20 seconds worth of the same 1Mbps. If you'd like to insult me for being aware of this, feel free. It won't hurt my feelings any.
    Really, I know I said I'd stop, but 20 Mbps, as you said, is *20 megabits* per *second*, or 20 chicken nuggets per box, not 1 for 20 boxes. If that were the case, wouldn't 1Mbps then further reduce to .1Mbps for 10 seconds or something? Either way, you're creating 20 tunnels to 20 different end points through the one big tunnel. You're making 20 connections ti the same end point or user instead of 1 connection. If you were the only cars on the road sure, but these 20 cars can negatively impact the rest of the drivers on the road, or people on the tower.

    I will really ignore this thread now, but I just felt obligated in some way to clarify this, for historians when the thread gets locked.
    12-31-2013 10:54 AM
  10. natasftw's Avatar
    Really, I know I said I'd stop, but 20 Mbps, as you said, is *20 megabits* per *second*, or 20 chicken nuggets per box, not 1 for 20 boxes. If that were the case, wouldn't 1Mbps then further reduce to .1Mbps for 10 seconds or something? Either way, you're creating 20 tunnels to 20 different end points through the one big tunnel. You're making 20 connections ti the same end point or user instead of 1 connection. If you were the only cars on the road sure, but these 20 cars can negatively impact the rest of the drivers on the road, or people on the tower.

    I will really ignore this thread now, but I just felt obligated in some way to clarify this, for historians when the thread gets locked.
    That didn't offer much clarity. It actually did the opposite. If I understand your nuggets analogy, you're claiming 20 people using the tethering would be similar to the inefficiency of carrying 20 boxes rather than one box. In this explanation, the box is a second because the highway made less sense to you? The highway's width was equivalent of a second in the prior analogy. The length of the highway was the timeline. That's why 20Mbps means 20 lanes wide where 1Mbps for 20 seconds means 20 lengths long. In your new analogy, there is an "infinite" row of nugget boxes. Each box can hold 20 nuggets, which represent 1Mbps each. If that's the intent, here's where it's a bit off:

    The phone ultimately has one outgoing data stream. This is the aggregate stream. It's similar to how the router works. It will receive the packet from each of the 20 people using the phone and forward the data out. Packets aren't infinite in size. Whether I pass 20 packets or 20 people pass 1 packet each, the phone would treat it as 20 outgoing packets. The overhead is mostly negligible. The bottle neck will be AT the phone rather than after the phone.

    No, it wouldn't reduce to anything. If you're drawing 1Mbps, you're drawing 1Mbps. It won't reduce. If 10 people are collectively drawing 1Mbps, then each are essentially drawing 0.1Mbps, yes. If you were attempting to say each wanted to draw the 20Mbps instantly, then yes each would extend out. But, that has absolutely nothing to do with what you were saying in terms of trucks versus cars. That's simply claiming "more people could potentially use more data." I'm not sure that was ever a debate. He had suggested someone might setup a kiosk. If they did, that wouldn't increase the bandwidth. It creates an unrealistic scenario where people would pay to get less than dialup access where the Verizon customer would be paying ~$100/mo to provide that internet rather than providing the same access by purchasing internet at less than half the cost and installing a wifi router. It was a silly point to begin with. Your argument, using incorrect telecommunications explanations, didn't make it any stronger.

    If you'd like to clarify, the same offer I provided i7 applies to you. You're free to send me a message. However, you're better off remaining with the highway analogy or using actual telecommunications terms than trying to create a new analogy. The nuggets were far less clear =/
    DayThyme likes this.
    12-31-2013 02:55 PM
  11. iOS Gravity's Avatar
    Yeah, it is. No minds are going to change... Especially when at least one of those minds think others have lesser grey matter...
    Agreed. No one wants to be proven wrong.
    12-31-2013 03:07 PM
  12. i7guy's Avatar
    Agreed. No one Some people do not want to be proven wrong.
    Yes, that could be said of all of us.
    12-31-2013 05:57 PM
  13. 3cit's Avatar
    For the record, it took me at least thirty minutes to read through all this
    I don't know if it's legal or not.
    I don't care.

    I finagled my way into a 5s with unlimited data on my out of contract line. The third tweak I downloaded was mywi. I used it today so my kids could watch netflix on a long drive. I will buy it when my trial is over.
    I will let you all know what Verizon does with my unlimited data plan.

    Because honestly, unfortunately, none of your OPINIONS matter. I say unfortunately because you all have such strong OPINIONS. But like I said, it doesn't matter, until it comes up. When the first American is kicked off of unlimited data for unauthorized tethering, then it will start to matter, and will only then be resolved by someone's OPINION. That person however, will be a judge so it will be more than opinion, it will be fact.
    DayThyme likes this.
    01-02-2014 02:41 AM
  14. DayThyme's Avatar
    When the first American is kicked off of unlimited data for unauthorized tethering, then it will start to matter, and will only then be resolved by someone's OPINION. That person however, will be a judge so it will be more than opinion, it will be fact.
    Well, the class action (which is what it would be) could settle before a judge ruled or if it did get to the point a judge ruled, then it would go through the appellate process and then either cert is denied or the SCOTUS rules on the issue before it would all be over.

    However, Verizon isn't ever going to chance it for all of the reasons I indicated in my "opinion". Not gonna happen.
    01-02-2014 11:52 AM
  15. DayThyme's Avatar
    I finagled my way into a 5s with unlimited data on my out of contract line.
    what does this mean?
    01-02-2014 11:53 AM
  16. i7guy's Avatar
    Or you are forced to pay for the bandwidth.
    01-02-2014 03:20 PM
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