Uh-oh... Trouble on the horizon?

[Blackfeet]

Good Day to All,

My Dept. has contracted with a company called Meraki to manage their IT mobile devices, via (I believe) the cloud. Reportedly, as in rumor on the street, is that it will be able to detect jailbroken devices (which is against policy - DOH!) and report it to ITS. I have been unable to verify this, but if it is true, my Jailbreak will have to go away, and I will have to upgrade to 6.1.3 (DANG!!!!).

My question to the JB community, is this true - does anybody have any experience with this Company? PLEASE say it ain't so!

 

[rdiddy_25]

Never heard of that company personally but I do know that if ur companies uses exchange for its iPhone, then yea they can detect if its JB and require u to update to remove it. Not really anything u can do about it since they pay for and own the device. Sorry.

 

[jclisenby]

If they are on a managed server then they will see it and force an upgrade. Sorry! I would 100% advise against jailbreaking or modifying company owned devices. At some places that can get you fired, fined, or even arrested and jailed.


Tappin and Talkin from my iPhone 5

 

[androidluvr2]

it will be able to detect jailbroken devices (which is against policy - DOH!) and report it to ITS.

check this out:

Managing iOS devices with Meraki Systems Manager - YouTube

 

[natasftw]

If they are on a managed server then they will see it and force an upgrade. Sorry! I would 100% advise against jailbreaking or modifying company owned devices. At some places that can get you fired, fined, or even arrested and jailed.


Tappin and Talkin from my iPhone 5

It's not criminal. Worst case, it's a violation of a contract with the company. You can't be jailed for civil cases.

What crazy stories are you hearing?

 

[jclisenby]

It's not criminal. Worst case, it's a violation of a contract with the company. You can't be jailed for civil cases.

What crazy stories are you hearing?

Depends on the company and sector of work. I know many government contracting companies that press criminal charges for tampering with equipment. It all depends on the company's rules and laws concerning that company b


Tappin and Talkin from my iPhone 5

 

[androidluvr2]

I know many government contracting companies that press criminal charges for tampering with equipment.

I could see this if the company was a military contractor or something similar where employees were required to have a security clearance. Then arguably, the jailbreaking could be seen as circumventing security protocols.

Otherwise, I don't know what laws could be broken. There have to be laws in place that make it a crime since it is not up to the company to prosecute; that is up to the district or state's attorney or in federal court, the federal prosecutors.

First though, there has to be a law that is broken. Specifically, what laws would be broken?

 

[androidluvr2]

It's not criminal. Worst case, it's a violation of a contract with the company. You can't be jailed for civil cases.

I agree with this in general, but if the phone were issued to an employee with a security clearance by a military contractor or the like and used for business calls/emails about military projects (or the like), I could see there being security clearance laws that were broken.

Other than that, I agree.

 

[jclisenby]

I could see this if the company was a military contractor or something similar where employees were required to have a security clearance. Then arguably, the jailbreaking could be seen as circumventing security protocols.

Otherwise, I don't know what laws could be broken. There have to be laws in place that make it a crime since it is not up to the company to prosecute; that is up to the district or state's attorney or in federal court, the federal prosecutors.

First though, there has to be a law that is broken. Specifically, what laws would be broken?

The laws I have seen involve tampering with company equipment, circumventing security protocols, illegally accessing data, hacking, and piracy. I've also seen some places where jailbreaking or modifying company devices is considered vandalism or destruction of property.

I'm sure most companies just fire people who do it, but there's always a chance worse things can happen.


Tappin and Talkin from my iPhone 5

 

[androidluvr2]

The laws I have seen involve tampering with company equipment, circumventing security protocols, illegally accessing data, hacking, and piracy. I've also seen some places where jailbreaking or modifying company devices is considered vandalism or destruction of property.

What laws in what jurisdiction? Specifically. I am not asking for broad legal concepts, rather, I am asking for the statutes.

I'm sure most companies just fire people who do it, but there's always a chance worse things can happen.

There's not the chance if there is no law that makes it a crime. But fired, sure, that is what the OP needs to worry about.

 

[jclisenby]

What laws in what jurisdiction? Specifically. I am not asking for broad legal concepts, rather, I am asking for the statutes.

There's not the chance if there is no law that makes it a crime. But fired, sure, that is what the OP needs to worry about.

Yes, in most cases the harshest punishment brought down will be getting fired. I do know many companies who can press charges if this happens. There are many laws on the federal, state, and local level protecting company assets and data. Many jurisdictions allow companies to consider jailbreaking a form of either breaking & entering, vandalism, or burglary. It all depends on where and what company. The majority of companies I know that do this are government contractors.


Tappin and Talkin from my iPhone 5

 

[androidluvr2]

There are many laws on the federal, state, and local level protecting company assets and data.

Yes, there are, but that is not the issue. The issue is do any of them make it a crime to gain root access to a company issued phone (aka jailbreaking). I haven't seen any statutes that do.

 

[androidluvr2]

Many jurisdictions allow companies to consider jailbreaking a form of either breaking & entering, vandalism, or burglary.

Which jurisdictions and what are the specific statutes that apply?

 

[jclisenby]

Yes, there are, but that is not the issue. The issue is do any of them make it a crime to gain root access to a company issued phone (aka jailbreaking). I haven't seen any statutes that do.

I personally know of some company policies that equate jailbreaking with these and people have been fired and arrested for attempting to jailbreak or circumvent security protocols. Keep in mind that my experience is with contracting companies with government ties. They have the federal data laws on their side.


Tappin and Talkin from my iPhone 5

 

[Blackfeet]

Well, while I have no fear of getting arrested, and very little fear of being fired, I could be/would be in some kind of trouble if our ITS Manager were to find out, so I guess it is bye-bye evasi0n.

Perhaps it is time for me to get my own device and hand the Dept.'s back.

 

[androidluvr2]

I personally know of some company policies that equate jailbreaking with these

It doesn't matter whether or not the company considers jailbreaking a crime. What matters is whether there is a law that makes it a crime. So far, you haven't cited to any such law. All you are doing is throwing out broad legal concepts like breaking and entering, which is a legal concept that applies to a dwelling/building or other enclosed structure and requires intent to commit a crime upon entering. It's also called burglary and it's irrelevant to gaining root access to a company-issued phone.

and people have been fired and arrested for attempting to jailbreak or circumvent security protocols.

If they have been arrested, it is a matter of public record. What are their names? I would like to look up their case.

 

[androidluvr2]

Perhaps it is time for me to get my own device and hand the Dept.'s back.

yeah, that sounds like a plan.

 

[jclisenby]

It doesn't matter whether or not the company considers jailbreaking a crime. What matters is whether there is a law that makes it a crime. So far, you haven't cited to any such law. All you are doing is throwing out broad legal concepts like breaking and entering, which is a legal concept that applies to a dwelling/building or other enclosed structure and requires intent to commit a crime upon entering. It's irrelevant to jailbreaking.


If they have been arrested, it is a matter of public record. What are their names? I would like to look up their case.

I don't know the actual laws, man. If its that important to you I can look them up. Just know its a bad idea.

Keep in mind that when you gain employment with a company, you are given the rules and regulations with that company. Whatever is in those rules, once signed by you, holds up 100% in court. That's where it's usually cited that you can be prosecuted for these crimes if modifications are made to company devices. The laws concern both the physical devices, the company data, and intellectual property contained on them.


Tappin and Talkin from my iPhone 5

 

[androidluvr2]

I don't know the actual laws, man. If its that important to you I can look them up.

Please look them up and let me know what they are. That is what I have been asking - what are the laws.

Keep in mind that when you gain employment with a company, you are given the rules and regulations with that company. Whatever is in those rules, once signed by you, holds up 100% in court.

First, let's be clear, that would be in a civil court, as that would be a civil matter. But even then, the terms can be deemed unenforceable by a court. An example are non-compete clauses in California. An employer can have an employee sign one of those, but no California court will enforce it. Even if the non-compete clause was signed outside of California between a non-California employer and a non-California employee and was legal under their state's law. If that employee takes a job in California that violates the non-compete clause they signed before they moved to California, no California court will enforce it. Period. And no courts in any other state have any jurisdiction to enforce it once the former employee moves to California and accepts employment with a California employer.

There are other examples I can think of off the top of my head. That is just one. Another would be non-disclosure agreements. A company can draft an overly broad NDA, have the employee sign it and a court can refuse to enforce it.

Moreover, a company can't enact a criminal statute and if there is no criminal statute making an act a crime, then it is not a crime no matter what a company's rules and regulations say.

That's where it's usually cited that you can be prosecuted for these crimes if modifications are made to company devices.

A company can put whatever they want in their company manual. It doesn't mean that any laws exist that actually make breaching the terms of that employment contract a crime. And it doesn't mean that what they put in their company manual will be enforced even by a civil court.

 

[jclisenby]

Please look them up and let me know what they are. That is what I have been asking - what are the laws.

First, let's be clear, that would be in a civil court, as that would be a civil matter. But even then, the terms can be deemed unenforceable by a court. An example are non-compete clauses in California. An employer can have an employee sign one of those, but no California court will enforce it. Even if the non-compete clause was signed outside of California between a non-California employer and a non-California employee and was legal under their state's law. If that employee takes a job in California that violates the non-compete clause they signed before they moved to California, no California court will enforce it. Period. And no courts in any other state have any jurisdiction to enforce it once the former employee moves to California and accepts employment with a California employer.

There are other examples I can think of off the top of my head. That is just one. Another would be non-disclosure agreements. A company can draft an overly broad NDA, have the employee sign it and a court can refuse to enforce it.

Moreover, a company can't enact a criminal statute and if there is no criminal statute making an act a crime, then it is not a crime no matter what a company's rules and regulations say.


A company can put whatever they want in their company manual. It doesn't mean that any laws exist that actually make breaching the terms of that employment contract a crime. And it doesn't mean that what they put in their company manual will be enforced even by a civil court.

For companies that are contracted by the government, all data, computers, and even smartphones are covered under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. It's a federal law making it a criminal offense to do pretty much anything unauthorized to a government computing device. It has been strengthened in recent years by the Patriot Act and revisions to include smartphones and tablets in the law's reach.

I'm not sure how private companies would go about it, but there it is for any government contracted company.


Tappin and Talkin from my iPhone 5