Jailbreaking is Dangerous!

[Aquillium]

Did you hear that Jailbreaking is very very dangerous!

PLEASE!

All i am hearing across the net, is "Oh all the jailbroken iPhones are about to get destroyed by the new worm virus" "Anyone who jailbroke they're iPhone is going to be stuffed" etc

What a crock of crud.

The only thing Dangerous about Jailbreaking is not researching it. Im glad the n00bs are getting this big scary virus. Maybe they'll look before they leap next time. It's not hard to read into a subject these days, google is a wonderful resource

Jailbreaking, in my opinion, was the best thing to come out since Jesus. It takes a beautiful piece of technology and makes it completely customizable. (Why it isnt able to do Winterboard type changes as standard i dont know)

The best thing of all is that the Iphone Gods and Gurus (You know who they are) do this all for free! If you dont donate, atleast spread the word and get some more people on board!

...and to all you non-Jailbreak believers... Hahahaha.

 

[redbeard]

Yea I thought it was funny that all the people with phones going into coma mode with 3.1 were non-jailbroken devices only, I'vwe been jailbroken for 9 months now and it's been awesome, I could never go back. Those that don't do it are missing out, for sure..

 

[IGoSlo]

JailBreaking your iPhone has both Good and Bad issues. If not done properly it may cause issues. With blackra1n and other JB Programs available most JB'rs are safe. I have found the one's that encounter problems are individuals that Don't or Won't investigate and gather as much knowledge about JB'ing as possible. Some "wannabe" backyard Hacker that thinks he/she has it all together and uses openSSH on his iPhone and deletes, moves or mod's a file without backing up then get's into trouble and desperately wines on this and other forums about how BAD a Jail Break Experience they had. Personally, I stand with redbeard and the 1,000's of other Jail Broken iPhone owners. It's Awesome... Simply for the FREEDOM of NOT being tethered to APPLE. It was my money that purchased my iPhone's. It's my choice to JB and enjoy the Universe. I SAY go for it... But investigate... As a GREAT President once said... "TRUST BUT VERIFY"...

 

[whmurray]

Robin Hood was a thug.

.............The only thing Dangerous about Jailbreaking is not researching it. Im glad the n00bs are getting this big scary virus. Maybe they'll look before they leap next time. It's not hard to read into a subject these days, google is a wonderful resource .............

Sorry. The really dangerous part of jailbreaking is that you become part of a community of jailbreakers, many, not to say, most, of whom did not research it. You become part of a hostile neighborhood. You become part of a population that includes the rogues, thugs, bullies, and naifs.

Apple knew what it was doing. It understood that "open" devices are dangerous, that they are targets for rogues, that once compromised, they are bad neighbors. Instead of the permissive strategy adopted by the Internet, it elected a more restrictive one, not completely restrictive but much more so than the personal computer or the Internet.

They might have chosen an even more restrictive policy, one that would have resisted jailbreaking, but then it would have been a different product, not open to all of the one hundred thousand apps. Apple understood that successful products invite attack. It also understood that a secure user interface is necessary but not sufficient; one must also have a secure network interface and a secure application program interface, much more difficult problems.

One of the things that many jailbreak program suites add to the network interface is SSH, by definition, a "secure" interface, but one that, of necessity, installs with a default password. For some jailbreakers, their "research" ends before they learn that the interface is there and that it exposes them until they change the password. If they fail to choose a secure password, they will fall to brute force attacks when all of the default passwords have been exploited.

Apple makes a security choice every time it adds functionality to the interfaces. The jailbreakers may also make a choice but we know that they are including a great deal of legacy code and historically broken interfaces in their suites, code and interfaces too extensive for them to even know about the vulnerabilities that they may include.

I am content to use the product that Apple intended and that I bought. I appreciate the security model that Apple built, one where the complexity, generality, and flexibility is hidden from most users under one hundred thousand purpose-built applications.

I admit that I resent the fact that Apple uses this model to engage in restraint of trade with AT&T. However, in the interest of security, I am willing to wait for competitive pressure to force both Apple and AT&T to liberalize the restrictions within the Apple security model. Most of the restrictions that applied when I bought my first iPhone have disappeared. While I would love to have PDANet on my iPhone, as I had on my Treo, I can wait.

Fortunately for both me and thee, there are more of me than of thee. I wish you luck in your "research." At least for the time being, we do not have to do "research" or protect ourselves from the rogue hackers; you are the target. We do not have to outrun the bear, we only have to outrun you.

 

[BENGRIMM]

Yeah I could never go back , I actually fear the day I have to get a new phone . The idea of jailbreaking scared the CRAP outa mean I thought all sort of bad things could go wrong , but I did my research , read everything I could and then sat down one day and went to work on jailbreaking my original 2G Iphone after a few tries , opps un responsive I damn near wanted to cry , but I did a quick search in some forums and found a way out . This turned me off for months , until I got my 3GS . So I started again researching and researching till i couldnt research any more . And Blackra1n hits and POOF with a miracle I was jailbroken , but I havent stopped reading , I try an learn something everyday .

 

[BLiNK]

The really dangerous part of jailbreaking is that you become part of a community of jailbreakers, many, not to say, most, of whom did not research it. You become part of a hostile neighborhood. You become part of a population that includes the rogues, thugs, bullies, and naifs.

hello my fellow rogues, thugs, bullies, and naifs!

 

[Corrina]

It's unfortunate that there are bad apples in every bunch but that's with pretty much everything in life, not just the jailbreaking of iPhones. I don't believe that the majority of the jailbreaking community are "thugs, bullies and naifs." A lot of us simply want the ability to customize our phones and maximize their capabilities. We're not all trying to take down cell towers or Rickroll the world's iPhones.

I've modded Motorolas and Nokias for years without problems and I haven't had any with jailbreaking my iPhone. I did my homework before I made the decision to jailbreak. However, there are always going to be things I don't know and that's the risk I take. But it's MY choice. There are plenty of people who don't believe in jailbreaking, which is THEIR choice, and I respect that. It's awesome that non-jailbreakers love their phones are happy with them as they are. I don't begrudge them that contentment.

I am not renting my iPhone; I purchased a product and it belongs to me. I am not hurting anyone, so I will do with it as I wish. No one tells me what I can and cannot run on my computer and the same should be true for my phone. And for now... it is.

 

[whmurray]

It's unfortunate that there are bad apples in every bunch but that's with pretty much everything in life, not just the jailbreaking of iPhones. I don't believe that the majority of the jailbreaking community are "thugs, bullies and naifs." A lot of us simply want the ability to customize our phones and maximize their capabilities. We're not all trying to take down cell towers or Rickroll the world's iPhones.

I've modded Motorolas and Nokias for years without problems and I haven't had any with jailbreaking my iPhone. I did my homework before I made the decision to jailbreak. However, there are always going to be things I don't know and that's the risk I take. But it's MY choice. There are plenty of people who don't believe in jailbreaking, which is THEIR choice, and I respect that. It's awesome that non-jailbreakers love their phones are happy with them as they are. I don't begrudge them that contentment.

I am not renting my iPhone; I purchased a product and it belongs to me. I am not hurting anyone, so I will do with it as I wish. No one tells me what I can and cannot run on my computer and the same should be true for my phone. And for now... it is.

I am afraid that you may be missing the point. You may not be putting yourself at risk. However, the fact that you have not been successfully attacked is only anecdotal information about your risk. In the population of jailbreakers, many are putting themselves at risk. They not only put themselves at risk, they put their neighbors at risk.

The clueless puppy in Australia who wrote the attack was surprised at how well it spread. He did not think that the population of targets was vulnerable enough, large enough, or dense enough for his program to spread, much less thrive. Incidentally, until they were contaminated, and became complicit in attacking their neighbors, those jailbreakers were singing the same song that you are.

Perhaps you might want to think it through again.

 

[Indygangsta]

no its not close this thread

 

[IGoSlo]

I stand Shoulder to Shoulder with you Corrina... You couldn't have said it any BETTER. WHM, your points are well taken and respected. I believe by ALL... I may be reading to much between the lines but it sounds like YOU don't respect our views... As Corrina stated, I, (That's Me NOT you) that laid out my cash to purchase a product I saw worthwhile and wanted to own. Again it's ME that takes the risk with MY investment... Like Corrina and others I've met on this Forum and other forums, MOST are Hard working individuals who wanted just a LITTLE bit more than Apple offered. The iPhone is a GREAT product, as ALL products there are areas of needed improvement per Each individual. I'm NO EXPERT and I MAY fall prey to the "Rogue,Thug, Bully or Naif". That my friend, is what's called FREEDOM of Choice. I KNOW the risks and have for me weighed them and decided for myself to explore my UNTETHERED iPhone Experience... I Support and purchase APPS & misic off the iStore, so Apple DOES receive cash from me and I'm sure others. I ALSO am offended that you deem it appropriate to group "ALL Jail Breakers" with the "Rogues, Bullies, Thugs and Naif's. Beware those same "Rogues, Bullies, Thugs and Naif's ALSO walk the halls of Corporate America. So NOT ONLY iPhone Jail Breakers are susceptible to their mayhem... You to my friend have fall prey ...

 

[Leanna Lofte]

I'm not joining the to jailbreak or not to jailbreak discussion, but in regards to paying for jailbreak software, I recommend reading this blog post written by the developer of blackra1n.

On the iPhone: An Information Campaign

To sum it up, when you buy jailbreaking software, the seller is making a profit off something someone else developed and is providing for free... so it's theft.

 

[whmurray]

I stand Shoulder to Shoulder with you Corrina... You couldn't have said it any BETTER. WHM, your points are well taken and respected. I believe by ALL... I may be reading to much between the lines but it sounds like YOU don't respect our views... As Corrina stated, I, (That's Me NOT you) that laid out my cash to purchase a product I saw worthwhile and wanted to own. Again it's ME that takes the risk with MY investment... Like Corrina and others I've met on this Forum and other forums, MOST are Hard working individuals who wanted just a LITTLE bit more than Apple offered. The iPhone is a GREAT product, as ALL products there are areas of needed improvement per Each individual. I'm NO EXPERT and I MAY fall prey to the "Rogue,Thug, Bully or Naif". That my friend, is what's called FREEDOM of Choice. I KNOW the risks and have for me weighed them and decided for myself to explore my UNTETHERED iPhone Experience... I Support and purchase APPS & misic off the iStore, so Apple DOES receive cash from me and I'm sure others. I ALSO am offended that you deem it appropriate to group "ALL Jail Breakers" with the "Rogues, Bullies, Thugs and Naif's. Beware those same "Rogues, Bullies, Thugs and Naif's ALSO walk the halls of Corporate America. So NOT ONLY iPhone Jail Breakers are susceptible to their mayhem... You to my friend have fall prey ...

First, I was very careful not to group all jailbreakers with "rogues, thugs, and bullies" but simply pointed out that by jailbreaking one includes oneself in a population that they occupy.

Second, one can only enjoy "FREEDOM" under the Rule of Law which explicitly and expressly includes Contract. When you activated your iPhone, you agreed to both Apple and AT&T's Terms of Use. While I grant you that those terms of use are intended to protect Apple and AT&T from you, they also have the secondary impact of protecting the community from from its members. While you may have concluded that the terms infringe your rights of ownership, that is a unilateral abrogation of a contract that you freely entered. One cannot pick and choose among the laws and contracts that one will honor and then expect to enjoy their protection.

Third, while you are entitled to take risk onto to yourself, you are not free to take on risk to the community. If jaibreaking only endangered you, that would be one thing. However, it endangers others. The clueless puppy in Australia contaminated only a small number of systems. The rest were contaminated by his victims. Their tacit cooperation, jailbreaiking, was necessary to his success. Had they not jailbroken, they would not have been contaminated and could not have contaminated others.

The ethical test, is Kant's Categorical Imperative:

"Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law."

I do not jailbreak because I do not want others to do so. I do not want to live in a population of vulnerable systems, and, therefore, potentially hostile systems. If everyone jailbreaks, the security of the entire population of iPhones will approach the level of the Internet. It will not be possible for the naifs to protect themselves from the rogues, thugs, and bullies.

I will grant you that AT&T and Apple are, at least to some extent, behaving as thugs and bullies. That is not to say that there are no good intentions or effects to their actions. By the same token, one's (not to say, your) good intentions may not excuse all of one's actions.

Those of us who argue for this position understand that we are unlikely to convince those who have already "jumped the shark." We hope to convince those who have not yet decided. We all have an interest in an orderly community.

 

[Greenchunks]

First, I was very careful not to group all jailbreakers with "rogues, thugs, and bullies" but simply pointed out that by jailbreaking one includes oneself in a population that they occupy.

Second, one can only enjoy "FREEDOM" under the Rule of Law which explicitly and expressly includes Contract. When you activated your iPhone, you agreed to both Apple and AT&T's Terms of Use. While I grant you that those terms of use are intended to protect Apple and AT&T from you, they also have the secondary impact of protecting the community from from its members. While you may have concluded that the terms infringe your rights of ownership, that is a unilateral abrogation of a contract that you freely entered. One cannot pick and choose among the laws and contracts that one will honor and then expect to enjoy their protection.

Third, while you are entitled to take risk onto to yourself, you are not free to take on risk to the community. If jaibreaking only endangered you, that would be one thing. However, it endangers others. The clueless puppy in Australia contaminated only a small number of systems. The rest were contaminated by his victims. Their tacit cooperation, jailbreaiking, was necessary to his success. Had they not jailbroken, they would not have been contaminated and could not have contaminated others.

The ethical test, is Kant's Categorical Imperative:

"Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law."

I do not jailbreak because I do not want others to do so. I do not want to live in a population of vulnerable systems, and, therefore, potentially hostile systems. If everyone jailbreaks, the security of the entire population of iPhones will approach the level of the Internet. It will not be possible for the naifs to protect themselves from the rogues, thugs, and bullies.

I will grant you that AT&T and Apple are, at least to some extent, behaving as thugs and bullies. That is not to say that there are no good intentions or effects to their actions. By the same token, one's (not to say, your) good intentions may not excuse all of one's actions.

Those of us who argue for this position understand that we are unlikely to convince those who have already "jumped the shark." We hope to convince those who have not yet decided. We all have an interest in an orderly community.

I don't know where your argument about jailbreaking putting others at risk comes from. The only people at risk are other people who have jailbroken their phones, installed SSH and not changed their passwords. Maybe I haven't been around long enough,and dont fully understand, but no 'regular' users were affected by this. People who jailbreak their phones unsafely (SSH w/default pass) are at risk from others who do the same, I will give you that, but that is a result of their own negligence, they are not innocent bystanders.

Additionally, jailbreaking does not necessarily imply unlocking or loading pay software for free. I can see where a breach of contract issue and potential damages could arise if everyone was unlocking a phone that ATT subsidized only to use on another network, or people were illegally loading apps onto their phone and losing potential revenue for the developers. Your looking at a small niche of people and assuming that everyone behaves like them.

I'm not trying to convince you that jailbreaking is the bee's knees, I'm just saying that you're assigning a lot of false blame to jailbreakers when they are the only ones that are potentially affected by these worms, any only susceptible to them as a result of their own negligence.

 

[big9erfan]

First, I was very careful not to group all jailbreakers with "rogues, thugs, and bullies" but simply pointed out that by jailbreaking one includes oneself in a population that they occupy.

You include yourself in the same population they occupy by also; being human, using a computer, breathing, drinking water, eating, etc . Your attempt to generalize the jailbreakers as "the bad guys" and the non-jailbreakers as "the good guys" is flawed from the start.

 

[Corrina]

I stand Shoulder to Shoulder with you Corrina... You couldn't have said it any BETTER. WHM, your points are well taken and respected. I believe by ALL... I may be reading to much between the lines but it sounds like YOU don't respect our views... As Corrina stated, I, (That's Me NOT you) that laid out my cash to purchase a product I saw worthwhile and wanted to own. Again it's ME that takes the risk with MY investment... Like Corrina and others I've met on this Forum and other forums, MOST are Hard working individuals who wanted just a LITTLE bit more than Apple offered. The iPhone is a GREAT product, as ALL products there are areas of needed improvement per Each individual. I'm NO EXPERT and I MAY fall prey to the "Rogue,Thug, Bully or Naif". That my friend, is what's called FREEDOM of Choice. I KNOW the risks and have for me weighed them and decided for myself to explore my UNTETHERED iPhone Experience... I Support and purchase APPS & misic off the iStore, so Apple DOES receive cash from me and I'm sure others. I ALSO am offended that you deem it appropriate to group "ALL Jail Breakers" with the "Rogues, Bullies, Thugs and Naif's. Beware those same "Rogues, Bullies, Thugs and Naif's ALSO walk the halls of Corporate America. So NOT ONLY iPhone Jail Breakers are susceptible to their mayhem... You to my friend have fall prey ...

Good on ya.

As for missing the point, I don't believe that I am. Besides that, that naive little puppy couldn't have gotten into my phone (or my neighbors' via my phone). If memory serves, that was only an attack on jailbroken phones, with SSH installed, who's root passwords remained default. Mine has been changed. Access denied.

And in the immortal words of Forrest Gump: That's all I have to say about that.

 

[redbeard]

First, I was very careful not to group all jailbreakers with "rogues, thugs, and bullies" but simply pointed out that by jailbreaking one includes oneself in a population that they occupy.

Second, one can only enjoy "FREEDOM" under the Rule of Law which explicitly and expressly includes Contract. When you activated your iPhone, you agreed to both Apple and AT&T's Terms of Use. While I grant you that those terms of use are intended to protect Apple and AT&T from you, they also have the secondary impact of protecting the community from from its members. While you may have concluded that the terms infringe your rights of ownership, that is a unilateral abrogation of a contract that you freely entered. One cannot pick and choose among the laws and contracts that one will honor and then expect to enjoy their protection.

Third, while you are entitled to take risk onto to yourself, you are not free to take on risk to the community. If jaibreaking only endangered you, that would be one thing. However, it endangers others. The clueless puppy in Australia contaminated only a small number of systems. The rest were contaminated by his victims. Their tacit cooperation, jailbreaiking, was necessary to his success. Had they not jailbroken, they would not have been contaminated and could not have contaminated others.

The ethical test, is Kant's Categorical Imperative:

"Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law."

I do not jailbreak because I do not want others to do so. I do not want to live in a population of vulnerable systems, and, therefore, potentially hostile systems. If everyone jailbreaks, the security of the entire population of iPhones will approach the level of the Internet. It will not be possible for the naifs to protect themselves from the rogues, thugs, and bullies.

I will grant you that AT&T and Apple are, at least to some extent, behaving as thugs and bullies. That is not to say that there are no good intentions or effects to their actions. By the same token, one's (not to say, your) good intentions may not excuse all of one's actions.

Those of us who argue for this position understand that we are unlikely to convince those who have already "jumped the shark." We hope to convince those who have not yet decided. We all have an interest in an orderly community.

One question, are you for real???

Might wanna do something about that paranoia...

 

[IGoSlo]

WHM , You can't have it both ways. Your TRUE COLORS SHINE BRIGHTLY. With your upper lip you include Jailbreakers in the Community of "Rogues, Thugs and the like". With your bottom lip you "VAGUELY" apologize for that grouping. In short, You'd be an Excellant Politician in today's Socialistic Society. Aparently you view the "Jailbroken" iPhone Society as a "Threat" to your world. If not your personal attacks would not be as harsh and demeaning. My friend, the "Beautiful" thing about Freedom is "ALL"can partake to their "OWN" liking. Not by anothers idea of what's "Good for ALL". Just to cover my back. With that Freedom also comes Personal RESPONSIBILITIES... enough said

 

[whmurray]

WHM , You can't have it both ways. Your TRUE COLORS SHINE BRIGHTLY. With your upper lip you include Jailbreakers in the Community of "Rogues, Thugs and the like". With your bottom lip you "VAGUELY" apologize for that grouping. In short, You'd be an Excellant Politician in today's Socialistic Society. Aparently you view the "Jailbroken" iPhone Society as a "Threat" to your world. If not your personal attacks would not be as harsh and demeaning. My friend, the "Beautiful" thing about Freedom is "ALL"can partake to their "OWN" liking. Not by anothers idea of what's "Good for ALL". Just to cover my back. With that Freedom also comes Personal RESPONSIBILITIES... enough said

I see jailbreaking as spreading unnecessary vulnerability. I see that vulnerability as an invitation to the rogues and as a reduction in order. I think that all of us, including the rogues, have an interest in an orderly and reliable computing environment.

Most rogues self-identify as victims, not rogues. Rogue hackers are the exception. They self-identify as so much smarter than the rest of us that traditional rules simply do not apply to them. For example, within a contract, they can pick and choose among the provisions with which they will comply. Is that you?

I have spent forty plus years in information security. The last twenty of it I have been listening and responding to the self-justification of the hackers. Those arguments sound very much like yours. I have also been forced to watch as the level of risk has approached the tipping point. Down this road lies chaos.

 

[sargd66]

@whmurray

Why dont you go away and join a debate forum somewhere else.

 

[whmurray]

Good on ya.

As for missing the point, I don't believe that I am. Besides that, that naive little puppy couldn't have gotten into my phone (or my neighbors' via my phone). If memory serves, that was only an attack on jailbroken phones, with SSH installed, who's root passwords remained default. Mine has been changed. Access denied.

And in the immortal words of Forrest Gump: That's all I have to say about that.

Good for you. Are you certain that that is the only vulnerability that you have introduced into your iPhone?

Keep in mind that even attacks that you successfully resist consume resources. Contemplate a world in which half of all iPhones are jailbroken and only half of those compromised and generating attack traffic. While such a scenario is less likely in the iPhone population than in the Internet, we used to think bot-farms were unlikely there.

I remember getting the same arguments that you are using from IT professionals when I suggested to them that connecting weak systems to the Internet was anti-social. Today, if one attaches a weak system directly to the Internet, it will be covertly owned by others in minutes. Today there are hundreds of thousands of such compromised systems in the Internet. Control and use of these systems is available for a fee.

Today, most malicious software is purpose-built and used only against targets of choice. However, the multi-billion dollar anti-virus industry was a response to mischief against targets of opportunity. The mischief makers used the same arguments, including that the naifs did not deserve our concern, much less our protection. We should not be asked to use hygiene simply to protect them.

The Pakistani virus, arguably the first real problem virus, was distributed by software pirates with their offerings. They wanted to punish those who were unethical enough to do business with them. Of course, millions of others were victimized.

Clueless Puppy was surprised at how well his attack worked. So, perhaps your neighbor is not as smart as you give him credit for.

For the moment, the iPhone population is dramatically more secure than the Internet. That is because of choices that Apple, and to a lesser extent, AT&T, have made. I do not want to see us piss that away in the name of a little more generality and flexibility that was not included in the product they bought, most do not really need, and few are competent to manage.