What about Apple’s “responsibility” to consumers?

[SwitchBeach]

You guys do a lot of "it's business" type comments here so I'm surprised that you don't see how funny this statement is. Apple and every other company devotes money and resources to convince the public that they need their product. They also work to establish brand loyalty and develop a consumer base. The very thing you call "illogical" is exactly what the companies you're all defending want lol. This isn't conspiracy. This is reality. This is "business".

1. I'm not "defending" Apple or any company. I was simply answering the question posed. "Does Apple have a responsibility to consumers?"

2. Yes, I'm sure that Apple and many other companies spend a lot of money to develop a customer base. But it's still illogical to be "loyal" to business. And just because they want me to be loyal doesn't mean that I am or that I should be.

Loyalty implies that you stick with them no matter what. It's analogous to supporting your favorite sports team. You are loyal to them no matter if they win or lose. Blind love/loyalty.

But in business, it doesn't make sense to be loyal like that. I use Apple products that meet my needs. And I purchase other brands that meet other needs. For example, I do not use a Mac computer. It doesn't meet my needs. If I were "loyal", I would use a Mac regardless.

Apple doesn't have a responsibility to me as a consumer beyond that which exists in a purchase contract. As I stated above, it might be (and probably is) in their business interests to provide good customer service, etc. But they have no other "obligation".

 

[BreakingKayfabe]

Sorry for the confusion. I was speaking in general and not to this specific post. I've read a number of tech blogs/forums where the community feels this was handled poorly.

That’s just people complaining for the sake of complaining and generating arguments, in my opinion. I think the whole thing is settled now.

 

[Quis89]

Okay, speaking for myself only, I have low expectations of any company outside of what was agreed upon. So if six months or a year from now this iPad drags to a crawl, for whatever reason, I wouldn't feel some sense of betrayal or expect some explanation from Apple.

I guess I'm seeing all this as people having expectations that Apple never said explicitly they would grant. When I bought my new device, I tempered all expectations and responsibilities from Apple outside of the terms of agreement. If they want to do something else additional outside of that to be "nice" that's fine, but I don't expect them (or any other company) to, I guess

To your example of an iPad slowing after 6 months, it’s one thing for it to simply slow down. It’s something completely different for the manufacturer to intentionally slow it down. That’s the key difference here. If you spent $1000+ on a device for it to slow down after a year by the hands of the manufacturer, you wouldn’t expect, at minimum, a “hey here is why this is happening. We did it. Here’s the fix”? I’m not saying Apple needs to recall the phones, give refunds, give free upgrades or anything. Simply provided knowledge to what they’re doing to our devices so we can make informed decisions going forward. Are we saying that’s an unreasonable request?

I guess we have different expectations. Which is fine.

 

[bakron1]

I think they have handled the battery issue quite well and there will always be folks out there who you can never satisfy, just part of doing business in 2017.

 

[anon(10092459)]

To your example of an iPad slowing after 6 months, it’s one thing for it to simply slow down. It’s something completely different for the manufacturer to intentionally slow it down. That’s the key difference here. If you spent $1000+ on a device for it to slow down after a year by the hands of the manufacturer, you wouldn’t expect, at minimum, a “hey here is why this is happening. We did it. Here’s the fix”? I’m not saying Apple needs to recall the phones, give refunds, give free upgrades or anything. Simply provided knowledge to what they’re doing to our devices so we can make informed decisions going forward. Are we saying that’s an unreasonable request?

I guess we have different expectations. Which is fine.

It's not an unreasonable request, but if that doesn't happen that's okay too.. There are a lot of things companies should do. A lot of people think if you make a device capable of quick charging that the equipment to do that should be included in the box with the device. Some companies do, Apple does not. Even though some say "It should be included. What a rip off!"

I guess, for me at least, a company is just that and nothing more. They're not my friend or bother in law. They want my money and I want their product or service. Just business.

 

[Just_Me_D]

Well, yeah. It's called good business. Anyone with any business experience knows that these two things go hand in hand.



Of course not. Who is arguing this? This is just hyperbole.



He literally quoted you and then said that the question isn't about what Apple's obligations are then you brought up "obligations" again.


^^


I understand people want to sound like they're being exquisite and want to show people that they figured out the underlying reason why Apple did what they did so they can tell the less intellectual people what this is really about, but this is a win-win. A customer will be paying $50 less for a battery replacement, thus saving $50, while Apple still turns a profit.

I know I'm a villain around here sometimes, but this is a pretty pretentious post and I have a feeling I'm not alone in this line of thinking.

You are NOT a villain around here. Like the rest of us, you have an opinion and you don’t mind expressing it. There’s nothing wrong with that. Heck, I welcome it. Anyway, I agree that it’s a “win-win”, but my focus is on Apple and some people’s expectations of it. They are still making a profit. I am not posting mere hearsay. I’m posting what has personally been expressed to me.

 

[phlamethrowre]

Apple is completely lying about this. A fully charged older battery can power an IPhone at full processing power. It just can do it for quite as long as a new battery without a recharge. This BS excuse is for the uneducated masses who believe it because they love their iPhones. It’s BS.

 

[Just_Me_D]

I haven't seen anyone arguing anything to the contrary. It hasn't been what Apple is obligated to do. It's what should they do in an attempt to do right by the consumers who felt wronged. To respond to them with "too bad. Apple doesn't owe you anything" is a bit rough. I'm glad Apple chose a different approach.

And let's be honest, the menality expressed here certainly isn't what got Apple to where they are. Their exceptional customer service played a big role. Regardless of the legalities of what they rightfully should and shouldn't do. Arguing what they don't owe us is pointless when they've shown time and time again that they work to make things right and go beyond the fine print you guys reference.

Did you read post #1 ? It’s not about what “you” haven’t heard. It’s about what I have heard - some people think that Apple has certain “responsibilities” that they do not have. As you’ve stated, let’s be honest, not one time did I say that Apple cannot or should not do anything to appease consumers. I clearly stated that they don’t have to, with the exception of things outlined by local and regional laws.

 

[Just_Me_D]

...

I guess, for me at least, a company is just that and nothing more. They're not my friend or brother in law. They want my money and I want their product or service. Just business.

Nuf said...

 

[Quis89]

It's not an unreasonable request, but if that doesn't happen that's okay too..

I guess we just agree to disagree. Because in no way shape or form is it “okay” for a company to throttle our equipment without our knowledge, in my opinion. I get what you’re saying. A company is a for profit business and we should expect that they give a rats tail about us. I get that. But I’m not subscribing to the thought that we should just take it. We speak with our money. And I’d argue the majority would rather spend money at a company that has shown they value their consumers and are doing right by them.

Again, and I think this consistently gets lost in discussion, I’m not saying Apple or any company has an obligation to do right by its consumers. But it’s definitely in their best interests to do so. The outcry over this proves it. I had the most non tech savvy family members calling me asking why Apple was slowing their phone down when this story broke. Perception is reality. And the whole “Apple doesn’t have to do right by you” argument should really stay behind closed doors because that’s not the best way to win over and retain customers. Henry Selfridge coined the term “The customer is always right” and that phrase has dominated the consumer mindset ever since. Of course that isn’t the reality but companies should probably work to find a happy medium. I believe Apple has done that.

 

[Quis89]

Did you read post #1 ? It’s not about what “you” haven’t heard.

If it's not about what "we" the readers of the post have heard, then it may be best to ask those people you've heard. Asking others to rationalize the thoughts of people we haven't heard seems odd. It's tough to defend/bash a viewpoint that hasn't been expressed around here. Especially considering I haven't seen those thoughts expressed on the forums, which is where I figured this thread stemmed from. Guess I was wrong.

As you’ve stated, let’s be honest, not one time did I say that Apple cannot or should not do anything to appease consumers. I clearly stated that they don’t have to, with the exception of things outlined by local and regional laws.

Ok, but we know they don't HAVE to do anything.

 

[Just_Me_D]

....



Ok, but we know they don't HAVE to do anything.

Exactly!....

 

[anon(5630457)]

I don't like the excuses defending Apple. Look, what they did was sold a product and gimped the product after 2-3 years, and not telling its customers, forcing them to upgrade. When I spend $800-$1100 on a device, I expect it to function as it did the day I purchased it. I don't expect it to be gimped without my knowledge. It needs to be spelled out to me. Otherwise, I'll take my $1K elsewhere. Apple screwed over its customers. Imagine how many people upgraded their device when THEY DIDNT HAVE TO, unknown to them that a simple $79 battery replacement would've fixed their issues? Making excuses for Apple with this issue is reprehensible, IMO.

 

[Just_Me_D]

I don't like the excuses defending Apple. Look, what they did was sold a product and gimped the product after 2-3 years, and not telling its customers, forcing them to upgrade. When I spend $800-$1100 on a device, I expect it to function as it did the day I purchased it. I don't expect it to be gimped without my knowledge. It needs to be spelled out to me. Otherwise, I'll take my $1K elsewhere. Apple screwed over its customers. Imagine how many people upgraded their device when THEY DIDNT HAVE TO, unknown to them that a simple $79 battery replacement would've fixed their issues? Making excuses for Apple with this issue is reprehensible, IMO.

No. Apple did not “force” anyone to upgrade and not everyone experienced battery issues. I didn’t have battery issues with any of my previous iPhone models and when I passed them along to my kids, they didn’t complain of having battery issues. I upgraded to the newer models because I wanted to. I pretty much upgrade every year like a good deal of other people. As for people claiming that they “had to upgrade”, I’m not buying it.....

 

[Ledsteplin]

No. Apple did not “force” anyone to upgrade and not everyone experienced battery issues. I didn’t have battery issues with any of my previous iPhone models and when I passed them along to my kids, they didn’t complain of having battery issues. I upgraded to the newer models because I wanted to. I pretty much upgrade every year like a good deal of other people. As for people claiming that they “had to upgrade”, I’m not buying it.....

I doubt seriously if anyone upgraded because Apple slowed the CPU. If their battery was degraded, that was probably the reason. And/or other issues.

 

[metllicamilitia]

https://youtu.be/UiaqBdzCcBA

 

[Quis89]

I don't like the excuses defending Apple. Look, what they did was sold a product and gimped the product after 2-3 years, and not telling its customers, forcing them to upgrade. When I spend $800-$1100 on a device, I expect it to function as it did the day I purchased it. I don't expect it to be gimped without my knowledge. It needs to be spelled out to me. Otherwise, I'll take my $1K elsewhere. Apple screwed over its customers. Imagine how many people upgraded their device when THEY DIDNT HAVE TO, unknown to them that a simple $79 battery replacement would've fixed their issues? Making excuses for Apple with this issue is reprehensible, IMO.

Exactly. People assume because THEY didn't have issues that nobody had issues. It's obvious this was a problem. Apple addressed it. Why people are still trying to defend this is crazy.

The whole "I gave my old phone to someone and they didn't mention issues" is naive at best. If I'm given a used phone, that's all I know. I have no frame of reference to indicate degraded performance. You can't logically say that person hasn't suffered issues because they don't know how the phone would have performed if it were brand new. So they may assume it's working just fine when in reality it's not simply because they dont know what its capable of. You can say "it works for them".

The excuses I read are selfish and pretentious to be honest.
1. I didn't have issues nor did anyone in my family so what's the issue?
2. People shouldn't expect Apple to care about them

And you guys know what people mean when they say people were "forced" to upgrade. Being insensitive to those people does nothing. Obviously a gun wasn't put to their heads. But when these people experienced throttled devices and their phones slowed, prior to Apple addressing this they had two options;
1. Deal with it
2. Upgrade

If you work depends on your device performing then you have no choice but to upgrade. Arguing semantics is to ignore the argument simply because you don't want to hear their side.

 

[Just_Me_D]

Let me be ‘selfish’ and reiterate some things from the initial post....

1. Some people believe that Apple should do everything in their power to take care of its customers.
My stance is that once they have sold a product or service that the consumer has agreed to buy, their ‘obligation’ to the purchaser ends.

2. Apple voluntarily provide a degree of benevolence - software update, customer service, return policy, etcetera .
My stance is that although I understand why they do it, they don’t have to do it. They are not ‘obligated’ to do it.

3. The battery replacement option is a win for Apple.
It is a win for Apple because they are still making money off of it.

 

[anon(10092459)]

@Quis89 Well, people can have opposing opinions and points of view. That doesn't make either opinion less valid. If someone doesn't agree with your point of view, that doesn't make them naive or selfish or pretentious. I disagree with Rene Richie practically daily, doesn't mean his view doesn't speak to someone else.

I'm cynical and have been most of my adult life. I don't and won't ever believe that any company isn't working from it's own interest first and foremost. I agreed to the terms and conditions of the iOS license agreement, so I am alright with whatever they feel that they need to do to the software. If people believe otherwise, that's okay too.

 

[anon(5630457)]

The excuses I read are selfish and pretentious to be honest.
1. I didn't have issues nor did anyone in my family so what's the issue?
2. People shouldn't expect Apple to care about them

Exactly this. It's been common knowledge among consumers for years that Apple slowed down older devices to the point that a consumer had to purchase a new device to get a faster experience. That is the very definition of planned obsolescence. Apple made BILLIONS off this. It's reprehensible.