1. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Well, yeah. It's called good business. Anyone with any business experience knows that these two things go hand in hand.



    Of course not. Who is arguing this? This is just hyperbole.



    He literally quoted you and then said that the question isn't about what Apple's obligations are then you brought up "obligations" again.


    ^^


    I understand people want to sound like they're being exquisite and want to show people that they figured out the underlying reason why Apple did what they did so they can tell the less intellectual people what this is really about, but this is a win-win. A customer will be paying $50 less for a battery replacement, thus saving $50, while Apple still turns a profit.

    I know I'm a villain around here sometimes, but this is a pretty pretentious post and I have a feeling I'm not alone in this line of thinking.
    You are NOT a villain around here. Like the rest of us, you have an opinion and you don’t mind expressing it. There’s nothing wrong with that. Heck, I welcome it. Anyway, I agree that it’s a “win-win”, but my focus is on Apple and some people’s expectations of it. They are still making a profit. I am not posting mere hearsay. I’m posting what has personally been expressed to me.
    Last edited by Just_Me_D; 12-31-2017 at 07:54 AM.
    12-30-2017 08:09 PM
  2. phlamethrowre's Avatar
    Apple is completely lying about this. A fully charged older battery can power an IPhone at full processing power. It just can do it for quite as long as a new battery without a recharge. This BS excuse is for the uneducated masses who believe it because they love their iPhones. It’s BS.
    Retinella and DEman19901 like this.
    12-30-2017 08:18 PM
  3. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    I haven't seen anyone arguing anything to the contrary. It hasn't been what Apple is obligated to do. It's what should they do in an attempt to do right by the consumers who felt wronged. To respond to them with "too bad. Apple doesn't owe you anything" is a bit rough. I'm glad Apple chose a different approach.

    And let's be honest, the menality expressed here certainly isn't what got Apple to where they are. Their exceptional customer service played a big role. Regardless of the legalities of what they rightfully should and shouldn't do. Arguing what they don't owe us is pointless when they've shown time and time again that they work to make things right and go beyond the fine print you guys reference.
    Did you read post #1 ? It’s not about what “you” haven’t heard. It’s about what I have heard - some people think that Apple has certain “responsibilities” that they do not have. As you’ve stated, let’s be honest, not one time did I say that Apple cannot or should not do anything to appease consumers. I clearly stated that they don’t have to, with the exception of things outlined by local and regional laws.
    12-30-2017 08:24 PM
  4. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    ...

    I guess, for me at least, a company is just that and nothing more. They're not my friend or brother in law. They want my money and I want their product or service. Just business.
    Nuf said...
    12-30-2017 08:27 PM
  5. Quis89's Avatar
    It's not an unreasonable request, but if that doesn't happen that's okay too..
    I guess we just agree to disagree. Because in no way shape or form is it “okay” for a company to throttle our equipment without our knowledge, in my opinion. I get what you’re saying. A company is a for profit business and we should expect that they give a rats tail about us. I get that. But I’m not subscribing to the thought that we should just take it. We speak with our money. And I’d argue the majority would rather spend money at a company that has shown they value their consumers and are doing right by them.

    Again, and I think this consistently gets lost in discussion, I’m not saying Apple or any company has an obligation to do right by its consumers. But it’s definitely in their best interests to do so. The outcry over this proves it. I had the most non tech savvy family members calling me asking why Apple was slowing their phone down when this story broke. Perception is reality. And the whole “Apple doesn’t have to do right by you” argument should really stay behind closed doors because that’s not the best way to win over and retain customers. Henry Selfridge coined the term “The customer is always right” and that phrase has dominated the consumer mindset ever since. Of course that isn’t the reality but companies should probably work to find a happy medium. I believe Apple has done that.
    Retinella likes this.
    12-30-2017 08:31 PM
  6. Quis89's Avatar
    Did you read post #1 ? It’s not about what “you” haven’t heard.
    If it's not about what "we" the readers of the post have heard, then it may be best to ask those people you've heard. Asking others to rationalize the thoughts of people we haven't heard seems odd. It's tough to defend/bash a viewpoint that hasn't been expressed around here. Especially considering I haven't seen those thoughts expressed on the forums, which is where I figured this thread stemmed from. Guess I was wrong.


    As you’ve stated, let’s be honest, not one time did I say that Apple cannot or should not do anything to appease consumers. I clearly stated that they don’t have to, with the exception of things outlined by local and regional laws.
    Ok, but we know they don't HAVE to do anything.
    12-30-2017 08:43 PM
  7. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    ....



    Ok, but we know they don't HAVE to do anything.
    Exactly!....
    12-30-2017 09:00 PM
  8. Retinella's Avatar
    I don't like the excuses defending Apple. Look, what they did was sold a product and gimped the product after 2-3 years, and not telling its customers, forcing them to upgrade. When I spend $800-$1100 on a device, I expect it to function as it did the day I purchased it. I don't expect it to be gimped without my knowledge. It needs to be spelled out to me. Otherwise, I'll take my $1K elsewhere. Apple screwed over its customers. Imagine how many people upgraded their device when THEY DIDNT HAVE TO, unknown to them that a simple $79 battery replacement would've fixed their issues? Making excuses for Apple with this issue is reprehensible, IMO.
    Quis89 and phlamethrowre like this.
    12-31-2017 01:40 PM
  9. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    I don't like the excuses defending Apple. Look, what they did was sold a product and gimped the product after 2-3 years, and not telling its customers, forcing them to upgrade. When I spend $800-$1100 on a device, I expect it to function as it did the day I purchased it. I don't expect it to be gimped without my knowledge. It needs to be spelled out to me. Otherwise, I'll take my $1K elsewhere. Apple screwed over its customers. Imagine how many people upgraded their device when THEY DIDNT HAVE TO, unknown to them that a simple $79 battery replacement would've fixed their issues? Making excuses for Apple with this issue is reprehensible, IMO.
    No. Apple did not “force” anyone to upgrade and not everyone experienced battery issues. I didn’t have battery issues with any of my previous iPhone models and when I passed them along to my kids, they didn’t complain of having battery issues. I upgraded to the newer models because I wanted to. I pretty much upgrade every year like a good deal of other people. As for people claiming that they “had to upgrade”, I’m not buying it.....
    Tartarus, TwitchyPuppy and taz323 like this.
    12-31-2017 02:04 PM
  10. Ledsteplin's Avatar
    No. Apple did not “force” anyone to upgrade and not everyone experienced battery issues. I didn’t have battery issues with any of my previous iPhone models and when I passed them along to my kids, they didn’t complain of having battery issues. I upgraded to the newer models because I wanted to. I pretty much upgrade every year like a good deal of other people. As for people claiming that they “had to upgrade”, I’m not buying it.....
    I doubt seriously if anyone upgraded because Apple slowed the CPU. If their battery was degraded, that was probably the reason. And/or other issues.
    Just_Me_D, TwitchyPuppy and taz323 like this.
    12-31-2017 02:38 PM
  11. metllicamilitia's Avatar
    12-31-2017 02:42 PM
  12. Quis89's Avatar
    I don't like the excuses defending Apple. Look, what they did was sold a product and gimped the product after 2-3 years, and not telling its customers, forcing them to upgrade. When I spend $800-$1100 on a device, I expect it to function as it did the day I purchased it. I don't expect it to be gimped without my knowledge. It needs to be spelled out to me. Otherwise, I'll take my $1K elsewhere. Apple screwed over its customers. Imagine how many people upgraded their device when THEY DIDNT HAVE TO, unknown to them that a simple $79 battery replacement would've fixed their issues? Making excuses for Apple with this issue is reprehensible, IMO.
    Exactly. People assume because THEY didn't have issues that nobody had issues. It's obvious this was a problem. Apple addressed it. Why people are still trying to defend this is crazy.

    The whole "I gave my old phone to someone and they didn't mention issues" is naive at best. If I'm given a used phone, that's all I know. I have no frame of reference to indicate degraded performance. You can't logically say that person hasn't suffered issues because they don't know how the phone would have performed if it were brand new. So they may assume it's working just fine when in reality it's not simply because they dont know what its capable of. You can say "it works for them".

    The excuses I read are selfish and pretentious to be honest.
    1. I didn't have issues nor did anyone in my family so what's the issue?
    2. People shouldn't expect Apple to care about them

    And you guys know what people mean when they say people were "forced" to upgrade. Being insensitive to those people does nothing. Obviously a gun wasn't put to their heads. But when these people experienced throttled devices and their phones slowed, prior to Apple addressing this they had two options;
    1. Deal with it
    2. Upgrade

    If you work depends on your device performing then you have no choice but to upgrade. Arguing semantics is to ignore the argument simply because you don't want to hear their side.
    Retinella likes this.
    12-31-2017 03:13 PM
  13. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Let me be ‘selfish’ and reiterate some things from the initial post....

    1. Some people believe that Apple should do everything in their power to take care of its customers.
    My stance is that once they have sold a product or service that the consumer has agreed to buy, their ‘obligation’ to the purchaser ends.

    2. Apple voluntarily provide a degree of benevolence - software update, customer service, return policy, etcetera .
    My stance is that although I understand why they do it, they don’t have to do it. They are not ‘obligated’ to do it.

    3. The battery replacement option is a win for Apple.
    It is a win for Apple because they are still making money off of it.
    12-31-2017 03:41 PM
  14. DMP89145's Avatar
    @Quis89 Well, people can have opposing opinions and points of view. That doesn't make either opinion less valid. If someone doesn't agree with your point of view, that doesn't make them naive or selfish or pretentious. I disagree with Rene Richie practically daily, doesn't mean his view doesn't speak to someone else.

    I'm cynical and have been most of my adult life. I don't and won't ever believe that any company isn't working from it's own interest first and foremost. I agreed to the terms and conditions of the iOS license agreement, so I am alright with whatever they feel that they need to do to the software. If people believe otherwise, that's okay too.
    Just_Me_D likes this.
    12-31-2017 03:46 PM
  15. Retinella's Avatar
    The excuses I read are selfish and pretentious to be honest.
    1. I didn't have issues nor did anyone in my family so what's the issue?
    2. People shouldn't expect Apple to care about them
    Exactly this. It's been common knowledge among consumers for years that Apple slowed down older devices to the point that a consumer had to purchase a new device to get a faster experience. That is the very definition of planned obsolescence. Apple made BILLIONS off this. It's reprehensible.
    DEman19901 likes this.
    12-31-2017 03:47 PM
  16. Retinella's Avatar
    My stance is that although I understand why they do it, they don’t have to do it. They are not ‘obligated’ to do it.
    This is where you're wrong. When I spend $1,000 on a device, I expect it to get timely updates for a period of time. This is INCLUDED in the purchase price. The purchase price DOES NOT stop at the hardware. The purchase price includes the hardware, timely software updates, and the expectation that any software issue will be taken care of when I own the device. Never once when I purchased a device did I think it's "benevolent" for a manufacturer to update the software because it is EXPECTED when I purchase the device.
    12-31-2017 03:48 PM
  17. Retinella's Avatar
    No. Apple did not “force” anyone to upgrade and not everyone experienced battery issues. I didn’t have battery issues with any of my previous iPhone models and when I passed them along to my kids, they didn’t complain of having battery issues. I upgraded to the newer models because I wanted to. I pretty much upgrade every year like a good deal of other people. As for people claiming that they “had to upgrade”, I’m not buying it.....
    Dismissing the issue speaks volumes because you're ignoring the fact that millions of customers had these issues. Just because you didn't experience them doesn't mean no one else experienced them. If only a few people experienced this, it wouldn't be an issue. But since millions of people are upset, this is a HUGE issue. Of course your kids won't complain about battery issues because either they don't know anything about how a battery works, didn't have a frame of reference when the device was new, and/or didn't care about the battery.
    12-31-2017 03:53 PM
  18. Tartarus's Avatar
    Exactly this. It's been common knowledge among consumers for years that Apple slowed down older devices to the point that a consumer had to purchase a new device to get a faster experience. That is the very definition of planned obsolescence. Apple made BILLIONS off this. It's reprehensible.
    People generally buy a new phone because the newer ones have new features. The speed improvement is implied, but not a necessity in itself.
    Most people don’t even care about speed. They notice their phone is slightly slower and think ‘Nah, it suits my needs’ and ‘I’m not gonna spend money on a new phone’.

    You are wrong in assuming that people tend to upgrade when they experience slower phones.

    If any, people tend to upgrade every 2 to 3 years, the more advanced users upgrade every year.
    Just_Me_D likes this.
    12-31-2017 04:04 PM
  19. Quis89's Avatar
    @Quis89 Well, people can have opposing opinions and points of view. That doesn't make either opinion less valid. If someone doesn't agree with your point of view, that doesn't make them naive or selfish or pretentious. I disagree with Rene Richie practically daily, doesn't mean his view doesn't speak to someone else.

    I'm cynical and have been most of my adult life. I don't and won't ever believe that any company isn't working from it's own interest first and foremost. I agreed to the terms and conditions of the iOS license agreement, so I am alright with whatever they feel that they need to do to the software. If people believe otherwise, that's okay too.
    It’s fine to disagree. It’s the shunning of those with issues and implying people who are offended by Apple in this situation are silly for their feelings that I think is wrong.
    12-31-2017 04:43 PM
  20. SwitchBeach's Avatar
    This is where you're wrong. When I spend $1,000 on a device, I expect it to get timely updates for a period of time. This is INCLUDED in the purchase price. The purchase price DOES NOT stop at the hardware. The purchase price includes the hardware, timely software updates, and the expectation that any software issue will be taken care of when I own the device. Never once when I purchased a device did I think it's "benevolent" for a manufacturer to update the software because it is EXPECTED when I purchase the device.
    Where is it stated in the purchase agreement or software agreement that ANY update to the software on the device is "INCLUDED IN THE PRICE"?

    Just because a customer might feel entitled to it does not make it the responsibility of the manufacturer.

    I have never understood this mindset.
    12-31-2017 04:55 PM
  21. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Dismissing the issue speaks volumes because you're ignoring the fact that millions of customers had these issues. Just because you didn't experience them doesn't mean no one else experienced them. If only a few people experienced this, it wouldn't be an issue. But since millions of people are upset, this is a HUGE issue. Of course your kids won't complain about battery issues because either they don't know anything about how a battery works, didn't have a frame of reference when the device was new, and/or didn't care about the battery.
    I did NOT say that people weren’t having issues. I said that I was NOT BUYING the statement that claimed that Apple ‘forced’ people to upgrade and I still stand by that. As for my know kids, you clearly don’t know them. If something is wrong with their phone or if it’s not operating right, believe me when I say that they will seek my assistance and advice. Anyway, I do not have a problem with your opinion or anyone else’s opinion regarding this matter.
    Tartarus likes this.
    12-31-2017 04:56 PM
  22. kataran's Avatar
    A business that sells a quality product that performs as good or better than its closes competition with a good track record is becoming rare.

    Look at the Auto industry!

    Yeah they sell at a profit but I don’t mind paying for a good product. That’s all I ever ask from any Company or Service
    Just_Me_D and Tartarus like this.
    12-31-2017 05:17 PM
  23. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Where is it stated in the purchase agreement or software agreement that ANY update to the software on the device is "INCLUDED IN THE PRICE"?

    Just because a customer might feel entitled to it does not make it the responsibility of the manufacturer.

    I have never understood this mindset.
    Thank you!
    12-31-2017 05:23 PM
  24. Retinella's Avatar
    Where is it stated in the purchase agreement or software agreement that ANY update to the software on the device is "INCLUDED IN THE PRICE"?

    Just because a customer might feel entitled to it does not make it the responsibility of the manufacturer.

    I have never understood this mindset.
    It's specifically part of the purchasing package. It's not "entitlement". If I spend $1K on a device, it better get timely software updates. This is not a compromise. It's Apple's responsibility to protect its consumers from the vast amount of hackers, bugs, and exploits that are out there. It's flabbergasting that you'd even write what you wrote.

    A lot of Android enthusiasts do not purchase LG, Samsung, or HTC Android phones because the companies don't update the software in a timely matter, or even at all. People expect it, and I do not think it's unreasonable to expect that, especially when anyone drops $800-$1200 on a device. Now, when we purchase a computer, we expect it to be protected from the latest exploits or hacks, right? It's not unreasonable to expect the same thing from a phone manufacturer.
    Last edited by Retinella; 12-31-2017 at 05:59 PM.
    12-31-2017 05:48 PM
  25. Retinella's Avatar
    I did NOT say that people weren’t having issues. I said that I was NOT BUYING the statement that claimed that Apple ‘forced’ people to upgrade and I still stand by that. As for my know kids, you clearly don’t know them. If something is wrong with their phone or if it’s not operating right, believe me when I say that they will seek my assistance and advice. Anyway, I do not have a problem with your opinion or anyone else’s opinion regarding this matter.
    You keep defending the indefensible. Apple screwed over its customers. Period. There's no way around it. Customers had no idea that they could replace the battery for $79. They were led to believe that they had to upgrade their devices. Even Apple's customer support didn't bring up replacing the battery when people were complaining about slowdowns.

    I worked for Walmart years ago and they had better ethical practices, and I got screwed out of overtime pay again and again.
    12-31-2017 05:51 PM
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