1. hbcbob573's Avatar
    I have been reading a lot of flack toward Apple in how it "borrowed" a few jailbreak tweaks like LockInfo, WiFi Sync, MobileNotifier (ok maybe not a good example because Hajas was hired by Apple), etc.

    I understand that Apple was probably in the moral wrong to do this with so many different apps and tweaks, but what did you expect (if you're the one *****ing)? Apple is a multi-billion dollar corporation and can pretty much do as they please. Besides that, they frown upon jailbreaking, so why wouldn't they take a stab at the developers who have made it so popular with their extremely useful apps?

    I mean, yes, it sucks, but really, what did you expect?

    I just had to throw that out there.
    06-09-2011 03:26 PM
  2. sting7k's Avatar
    Not shocking to me. By effectively going underground they left themselves open for it to happen. I don't know if any of these devs had their stuff patented, judging by the reactions I'd wager none have. In that case they have no recourse and are basically SOL. It's business and they didn't protect themselves. No sympathy here.
    06-09-2011 03:33 PM
  3. rgar3388's Avatar
    On top of that there are only so many ways to do things. Especially in the time frame that we the end users give them. We are so impatient. Sure they have some of the most creative minds in the world and will most likely eventually come up with something we can't even dream of. But I think this is great for now. It's their software and platform. All this does is up the ante and provide for some even greater competition. And for the jailbreak community (I'm pure), some great new innovative jailbroken apps. I know I sound like a fanboy right now, but really I'm just the type of guy that sees the glass half full. I'd probably do the same for google and rim....well maybe D.
    06-09-2011 03:36 PM
  4. BLiNK's Avatar
    to be honest i am surprised it took this long.. well maybe not
    06-09-2011 04:07 PM
  5. AStranger's Avatar
    I have been reading a lot of flack toward Apple in how it "borrowed" a few jailbreak tweaks like LockInfo, WiFi Sync, MobileNotifier (ok maybe not a good example because Hajas was hired by Apple), etc.

    I understand that Apple was probably in the moral wrong to do this with so many different apps and tweaks, but what did you expect (if you're the one *****ing)? Apple is a multi-billion dollar corporation and can pretty much do as they please. Besides that, they frown upon jailbreaking, so why wouldn't they take a stab at the developers who have made it so popular with their extremely useful apps?

    I mean, yes, it sucks, but really, what did you expect?

    I just had to throw that out there.
    Actually, if they were close enough them they could possibly have a case against apple.

    However, apple has more lawyers than most of these developers have dollars in their bank accounts and they know that they can likely quash most cases - and if they can't then they can just settle.

    I think if the developers have a case then all the more power to them. If apple is stealing, whether it's jailbroken or not, then it's wrong and someone should call them on it.
    06-09-2011 04:54 PM
  6. Sketso's Avatar
    Doesn't bother me at all, as it should be an expected side-effect of jailbreaking. Folks start "hacking" or exploiting a base system and showing off what it can do, then Apple starts listening to all of their customers ask for the same offerings built in... what would you do?

    Yes, it may affect the folks that write apps for jb phones, but unless Applie took their specific codes/apps/etc., it's all part of the free-enterprise system. PLUS, it proved to be beneficial to Hajas, who did what he did SOOOO well that they hired him to continue his work! I'd think that would be a badge of honor for him, and a huge carrot at the end of Apple's stick to discreetly encourage more folks to try and duplicate that feat (i.e. create something so good Apple wants it too).
    Last edited by Sketso; 06-09-2011 at 05:14 PM.
    06-09-2011 05:08 PM
  7. AStranger's Avatar
    Doesn't bother me at all, as it should be an expected side-effect of jailbreaking. Folks start "hacking" or exploiting a base system and showing off what it can do, then Apple starts listening to all of their customers ask for the same offerings built in... what would you do?

    Yes, it may affect the folks that write apps for jb phones, but unless Applie took their specific codes/apps/etc., it's all part of the free-enterprise system. PLUS, it proved to be beneficial to Hajas, who did what he did SOOOO well that they hired him to continue his work! I'd think that would be a badge of honor for him, and a huge carrot at the end of Apple's stick to discreetly encourage more folks to try and duplicate that feat (i.e. create something so good Apple wants it too).
    So you essentially think anyone's work really can't be copyrighted?

    By your argument I should be able to steal what Apple does and they shouldn't have the right to complain - but I'm willing to bet they'd squeal like a pig.
    06-09-2011 05:53 PM
  8. Sketso's Avatar
    So you essentially think anyone's work really can't be copyrighted?
    Wow, you almost had me. I had to re-read my original post very closely to make sure I didn't say "screw copyrights" or something similar. *snark*

    By your argument I should be able to steal what Apple does and they shouldn't have the right to complain - but I'm willing to bet they'd squeal like a pig.
    If you'll read closely, I specifically mentioned Apple duplicating features/processes without using/taking/stealing specific codes/apps/etc. You can't steal someone else's work, but if you see something and think you can duplicate the benefits and/or feel without taking proprietary code, trademarked images, etc., why the heck not? This is America. The idea of dry cereal was introduced by one person, but walk down the cereal aisle some time. Not only is there a huge variety of dry cereal, but there are SEVERAL different brands/versions of specific types of cereal (cheerios, bran flakes, rice krispies etc.). One person introduced the automobile, but there are now Dodges, Fords, Chevies, etc. Sarah's Grandma baked an apple pie, but Billy's Grandma made a better one, and *gasp* she even did it without even looking at Sarah's Grandma's recipe. It's called "free enterprise", and it gives people and businesses (both small and large) a way to compete. I, in no way, implied that Apple could take someone else's work and claim it as their own, but rather stated that they saw what their own iOS could do and found a way to do it themselves, and in their own way. In one area, where they felt they couldn't compete with the quality, they didn't STEAL the work of the original author, but rather offered him a job to do the work for them.

    It's not a hard concept to grasp, really...
    Last edited by Sketso; 06-09-2011 at 06:11 PM.
    06-09-2011 06:08 PM
  9. hbcbob573's Avatar
    What is it, I think 10%. 10% is all you have to change in one product/piece of a product to be free and clear from any case of copyright fraud. That's not much. And I'm pretty sure that Apple has changed the "borrowed" apps at least 10% or more.

    Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
    06-09-2011 06:25 PM
  10. Sketso's Avatar
    What is it, I think 10%. 10% is all you have to change in one product/piece of a product to be free and clear from any case of copyright fraud. That's not much. And I'm pretty sure that Apple has changed the "borrowed" apps at least 10% or more.

    Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
    I think that's a myth, actually, thinking along the lines of literary copyrights. Try to publish a book with only a 10% change, for instance, and WHAMMO! I'm interested to see if someone will track that info down and post it for us.

    ***Also, on a side note, I would like to say THANK YOU to the JB app creators for challenging Apple and leading to many of the iOS 5 changes! Here's to hoping they made a buck before Apple made those changes, and to hoping they continue the work for future inspiration!
    06-09-2011 06:49 PM
  11. BLiNK's Avatar
    haha, i am really curious as to how many jailbreakers out there will go Pure and stay there. over the past couple of years i have read oodles and oodles of posts/threads of how "if Apple would only... blah-blah-blah"

    well i think this will satisfy a lot of jailbreakers needs, no not 100% of their needs but probably enough to make them sway away from the mysterious battery drains and micro-managing

    Apple definitely hit a home run this time. plain & simple
    06-09-2011 08:48 PM
  12. jsntrenkler's Avatar
    I am less concerned about where they got the ideas and more thankful that they have finally implemented some features that were long overdue.
    06-09-2011 09:13 PM
  13. AStranger's Avatar
    If you'll read closely, I specifically mentioned Apple duplicating features/processes without using/taking/stealing specific codes/apps/etc. You can't steal someone else's work, but if you see something and think you can duplicate the benefits and/or feel without taking proprietary code, trademarked images, etc., why the heck not? This is America. The idea of dry cereal was introduced by one person, but walk down the cereal aisle some time. Not only is there a huge variety of dry cereal, but there are SEVERAL different brands/versions of specific types of cereal (cheerios, bran flakes, rice krispies etc.). One person introduced the automobile, but there are now Dodges, Fords, Chevies, etc. Sarah's Grandma baked an apple pie, but Billy's Grandma made a better one, and *gasp* she even did it without even looking at Sarah's Grandma's recipe. It's called "free enterprise", and it gives people and businesses (both small and large) a way to compete. I, in no way, implied that Apple could take someone else's work and claim it as their own, but rather stated that they saw what their own iOS could do and found a way to do it themselves, and in their own way. In one area, where they felt they couldn't compete with the quality, they didn't STEAL the work of the original author, but rather offered him a job to do the work for them.

    It's not a hard concept to grasp, really...
    You're quite over-verbose.

    When it comes down to it there is no real argument and I'm sorry that I did somewhat misunderstand/misread your post.

    There seem to be some people who do seem to think that apple somehow has the right to simply copy other apps - which they have done before. In fact they have patented specific apps that other people have developed:

    Apple "steals" iPhone app ideas and patents them (and lightsabers) - Computerworld Blogs

    Of course, one could argue that stealing ideas is almost a tradition in the computing industry - but for a company that so values its own patents and copyrights, it wouldn't surprise me if they don't have much regard for those of others.
    06-09-2011 10:01 PM
  14. graysonip's Avatar
    The standard for copyright infringement is two-fold: access and substantial similarity. Beyond copyright, there are also potential patent claims that developers may purdue, if they made appropriate filings with a patent office with relevant jurisdiction. A duly thoughtful attorney could likely identify a few other commercial claims, but in reality, these issues most often settle. No more law - it's after hours.
    06-09-2011 10:07 PM
  15. hbcbob573's Avatar
    Here here!

    I think that's a myth, actually, thinking along the lines of literary copyrights. Try to publish a book with only a 10% change, for instance, and WHAMMO! I'm interested to see if someone will track that info down and post it for us.

    ***Also, on a side note, I would like to say THANK YOU to the JB app creators for challenging Apple and leading to many of the iOS 5 changes! Here's to hoping they made a buck before Apple made those changes, and to hoping they continue the work for future inspiration!
    06-10-2011 09:10 AM
  16. Sketso's Avatar
    You're quite over-verbose.
    Thanks!

    Gracias! Xie Xie! Merci! Danke! Sukria! Grazie! Obrigado! Asante! Arigato!

    etc...

    (sorry, couldn't resist) Yes, I do tend to get a bit wound up...
    Last edited by Sketso; 06-10-2011 at 10:43 AM.
    06-10-2011 10:35 AM
  17. Fausty82's Avatar
    The one that really has my head spinning is the story about Apple rejecting the app for wi-fi syncing completely, and then developing the same system.

    But I see this whole issue as evolutionary... and as one of Apple seeing the benefits of some of the JB apps and trying to implement them in their iOS product line.

    And as for the question about JB'ers going to TeamPure... I am one. I was jailbroken for quite a while, but went to TeamPure about 3 weeks ago... now with the innovations of iOS5, I can't see going back... too many issues for me to be JB... at least in my experience, the phone performance/battery life, etc degraded over time when I was jailbroken.

    Now back on topic, the concept of "borrowing" tweaks and ideas has been around since day one of the computer industry and will continue to be a part of it... I see no problem there as long as no copyright or patent infringements are involved...
    06-10-2011 10:35 AM
  18. anon4705295's Avatar
    The thing is, the JB apps are not original at all... Other phones and devices have been doing this before the jailbreak devs made apps for it on iPhone. So really, people will just take any opportunity to rage on Apple lol
    06-10-2011 10:37 AM
  19. DrAma99's Avatar
    Well I guess that is normal... also because the most unbelievable apps on JB iPhones are made thanks to private Apple APIs and genius mind of course. I'm pretty sure that Apple use underground JB movement as a training field.
    06-12-2011 12:24 PM
  20. Jellotime91's Avatar
    Legally, because what they are doing is not protected under copyright laws, they have absolutely no right to complain if Apple uses their ideas. It sucks that this puts them out of a job, but the WiFi sync guy made about $500,000. I am pretty sure he can figure out something else to do.
    06-12-2011 12:28 PM
  21. dsjr2006's Avatar
    I have been reading a lot of flack toward Apple in how it "borrowed" a few jailbreak tweaks like LockInfo, WiFi Sync, MobileNotifier (ok maybe not a good example because Hajas was hired by Apple), etc.

    I understand that Apple was probably in the moral wrong to do this with so many different apps and tweaks, but what did you expect (if you're the one *****ing)? Apple is a multi-billion dollar corporation and can pretty much do as they please. Besides that, they frown upon jailbreaking, so why wouldn't they take a stab at the developers who have made it so popular with their extremely useful apps?

    I mean, yes, it sucks, but really, what did you expect?

    I just had to throw that out there.
    You can't really expect Apple not to add new features just because somebody else already had the idea.
    06-12-2011 01:42 PM
  22. ChrisGonzales90's Avatar
    I think Apple is aiming at adding most, if not all of the popluar jailbreak features so people won't have a need to jailbreak.
    06-12-2011 02:37 PM
  23. Ipheuria's Avatar
    I'm a JBer and I can honestly say any dev that made money and is now crying foul deserves to be sued. Apple uses th ideas dso what? If it wasn't for yo piggybacking their hardware and their partially implimented ideas where would that money have come from? Sure some of the more beginner JBers will go pure but lack of real custom tones, ability to customize the look and feel of the UI, plus the fact iOS is already JBen means JBers will still JB.

    It's just like Android and WP7 users who are mad that they copied x,y,z. The last time I checked so many parts of their OSes looked exactly the same so what's the problem?
    06-12-2011 03:25 PM
  24. hbcbob573's Avatar
    You can't really expect Apple not to add new features just because somebody else already had the idea.
    I agree completely.
    06-13-2011 11:21 AM
  25. sting7k's Avatar
    The one that really has my head spinning is the story about Apple rejecting the app for wi-fi syncing completely, and then developing the same system.
    The Zune has been WiFi syncing for years. It's not a new or revolutionary idea. It's about time Apple copied this from Microsoft, I'd wager someone else was doing it before them even.
    06-13-2011 11:31 AM
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