How much better can lightning headphones be (technical details appreciated)?

garfieldthecat

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Apple?s decision to remove the audio jack is proving unsurprisingly controversial. I personally agree with The Verge editor who said the decision is user-hostile ( Taking the headphone jack off phones is user-hostile and stupid | The Verge ), but that?s not what I want to talk about: I don?t want to talk about subjective opinions, but about objective technical details. Many people are claiming that the lightning connector offers the potential for better audio, and I?d like to understand this point better. Can anyone clarify the technical details? I see this as, in fact, two questions:
1) What defines ?better? (larger data bandwidth?) and how much ?better? is lightning?s potential?
2) (and this is trickier / potentially less objective) How much of this supposedly better performance can the human ear perceive?

I am sceptical that lightning headphones can be substantially better than non-lightning alternatives, because most people (me included) fail to notice any considerable difference among a 192Kbs, a 320 Kbps and uncompressed audio. Even if lightning allows for more bandwidth, is this additional bandwidth really needed?

I have read comments about how lightning may make it easier for headphones to have active noise-cancelling, but I have not understood why that would be (can anyone clarify please?), plus I?m honestly unimpressed because active noise cancelling tends to distort audio, so if top-notch audio quality is what you?re after, passive noise cancelling should be the way to go; it?s no coincidence that professionals use headphone with passive noise cancelling that seal the ears blocking out external noise.
 

Jeroen7

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Instead of being dependent on how good the dac in the device is, you can now choose yourself how good a dac you want to use with your device by choosing the right headphones to suit your needs.

So it's not really if lightning is better quality than the traditional connection, you just move the translation from digital to analogue outside of the device.
 

garfieldthecat

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Instead of being dependent on how good the dac in the device is, you can now choose yourself how good a dac you want to use with your device by choosing the right headphones to suit your needs.

So it's not really if lightning is better quality than the traditional connection, you just move the translation from digital to analogue outside of the device.

I see. Well, sort of: I understand the theory but not the practice.

What makes a better or worse DAC? How different is the DAC in the lightning headphones currently on the market vs that of the previous iphone?
Can lightning headphones provide better sound quality than, say, top of the range Shure or Sennehiser (eg the $ 1,000 Shure SE846 Sound Isolating? Earphones | Shure Americas ) with an audio jack? By the way, even if I won the lottery I would never spend that much on a pair of headphones because my imperfect ears cannot tell the difference between those and some headphones which cost half.
 

Jeroen7

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Even top dollar high end headphones with a 3,5inch plug are limited by the dac.
It's not that lightning headphones will have a better sound quality by default, but companies now can optimize the dac to their headset for best quality. I think the differences in sound quality could even be better audible between lightning headphones.
 

garfieldthecat

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Even top dollar high end headphones with a 3,5inch plug are limited by the dac.
It's not that lightning headphones will have a better sound quality by default, but companies now can optimize the dac to their headset for best quality. I think the differences in sound quality could even be better audible between lightning headphones.
My question is still unanswered. What defines 'better' and how much better will the final output realistically be? It's not like anyone has been screaming from the rooftops that lightning headphones are better than top-of-the-range headphones with an audio jack - in fact, quite the opposite, at least until now.
 

fury

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Two things jump out to me:

  • The potential for higher sample rate, 24-bit audio. I can't find a definitive source that confirms this, but some lightning headphones claim to support 24-bit audio. That will depend on whether the phone supports decoding that audio, of course, which may involve a special music playback app. The difference it will make will depend on the listener, so a more finely tuned ear might better be able to tell the difference. Me, I'm fine with 128 kbit streamed music, or even watching music playlists on YouTube. Haven't heard high resolution audio, personally, and I'm happy to remain blissfully ignorant, because I'm likely to be spoiled by it if I do try it.
  • Powered headphones. I'm not sure how much power the headphones can draw from an iPhone, but aside from making active noise cancellation possible without a battery, you may also be able to make higher powered headphones for louder or more accurate sound.
 

scruffypig

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Instead of being dependent on how good the dac in the device is, you can now choose yourself how good a dac you want to use with your device by choosing the right headphones to suit your needs.

So it's not really if lightning is better quality than the traditional connection, you just move the translation from digital to analogue outside of the device.

The great thing is, that we have had this option for every iPhone. The Lightning port has supported digital audio as well as the 30 pin connector. The 30 pin connector also supported analogue line out, where the Lightning port does not and never has. The Lightning ear pods have the DAC built in, but who knows if that is any better than the one used previously onboard the iPhone. I haven't heard much about the tech specs yet.
 

fury

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Isn't this what Sony does already with headphones like Most Comfortable Headphones with Microphone | MDR-1A | Sony US , which is meant for 24-bit hi-res audio and, by the way, uses a standard audio jack? :confused:

That depends on the DAC that goes to the jack you plug it into supporting that high resolution audio. In the case of the iPhone, it's been 44.1 or 48 kHz 16-bit - trying to play higher sample rates or bit depths over the headphone jack, even with specialized apps, leads to no improvement (at least according to one source)

With the right DAC hanging off the USB port that's hidden in that lightning port, you can get higher bit depth at least. (I'm not sure yet about the sample rate.) This was definitely possible on all the previous lightning iPhones as well, but what Apple does by removing the jack in the 7 is they put it front and center. More focus will be paid to making good DACs that tap into that digital audio out, which is good for consumers in the end (aside from the initial pain of having to buy the dongle or new pair of headphones).
 

metllicamilitia

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I'm not really sure what Apple plans to accomplish by moving over to lightning for audio. Your high end earphones and headphones will still sound miles better than anything lightning, especially when plugged into a dedicated Digital Audio Player (DAP) that has a minimum of a 10 band equalizer that adjusts sound properly, and worst case scenario your earphones/headphones need a headphone amp to sound proper at lower volumes. Apple offers none of that with the iPhone, iPad, or even iPod, and until they do, audio will still be limited to its current state of poor quality. So how much better can the lightning be? How much better are shoes than sandals?
 

scruffypig

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I'm not really sure what Apple plans to accomplish by moving over to lightning for audio. Your high end earphones and headphones will still sound miles better than anything lightning, especially when plugged into a dedicated Digital Audio Player (DAP) that has a minimum of a 10 band equalizer that adjusts sound properly, and worst case scenario your earphones/headphones need a headphone amp to sound proper at lower volumes. Apple offers none of that with the iPhone, iPad, or even iPod, and until they do, audio will still be limited to its current state of poor quality. So how much better can the lightning be? How much better are shoes than sandals?

There are plenty of 3rd party DACs you can use with the Lightning port. The lightning port is just USB 2.0. You can still use your high end headphones with a DAC that is plugged into the Lightning port. The Apple Lightning port ear pods have the DAC in the plug most likely. Apple has usually used pretty decent DACs in the iPhone, so hopefully the DAC used in the Lightning ear pods is also good. With the Lightning to 3.5 mm adaptor the DAC is in the plug also.
 

metllicamilitia

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There are plenty of 3rd party DACs you can use with the Lightning port. The lightning port is just USB 2.0. You can still use your high end headphones with a DAC that is plugged into the Lightning port. The Apple Lightning port ear pods have the DAC in the plug most likely. Apple has usually used pretty decent DACs in the iPhone, so hopefully the DAC used in the Lightning ear pods is also good. With the Lightning to 3.5 mm adaptor the DAC is in the plug also.

I'm not talking about DAC's. I'm talking about the ability to make the audio sound good. Fine tuning actually frequencies of audio. Radsone allows this, however it doesn't work that well because the iPhone itself can't push audio properly. This was done in a side by side comparison of using Radsone and its 10 band equalizer side by side with my Fiio X5 and its 10 band equalizer, both while using my Shure SE310's. The iPhone just cannot push audio to the degree it needs to be. The average user will never notice and never care. I do.
 

Jiggar101

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I'm not a technical person. But I think since you can transfer a large amount of data very quickly over a lightning connection then the quality of sound that it can handle as well as the speed would result in a better quality in overall sound. At least to audiophiles.
 

scruffypig

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I'm not a technical person. But I think since you can transfer a large amount of data very quickly over a lightning connection then the quality of sound that it can handle as well as the speed would result in a better quality in overall sound. At least to audiophiles.

The Lightning port is the speed of USB 2.0, which is fast enough, sufficient for really good audio streaming.
 

scruffypig

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I'm not talking about DAC's. I'm talking about the ability to make the audio sound good. Fine tuning actually frequencies of audio. Radsone allows this, however it doesn't work that well because the iPhone itself can't push audio properly. This was done in a side by side comparison of using Radsone and its 10 band equalizer side by side with my Fiio X5 and its 10 band equalizer, both while using my Shure SE310's. The iPhone just cannot push audio to the degree it needs to be. The average user will never notice and never care. I do.

To make audio sound really good on my iPhone, I load up VLC app with FLAC music files and play them back through my Fiio K1 DAC/AMP. I can use my Fiio with any iOS device by using the Lightning port. The problem is, that it is power hungry.
 
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NinjaMom

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Some companies, like mine, have techs who use the headphone jack to take credit card payments from customers. No headphone jack kinda kills this for our fleet. Yes, we can manually enter the card information but that is more time consuming AND believe it or not there is more fees when not using the card reader. So we lose time and money.

It isn't always just about music.
 

John Yester

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Companies will adapt and over come. Give it a few months for new product updates to come out, that will work just the same.
 

NinjaMom

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Companies will adapt and over come. Give it a few months for new product updates to come out, that will work just the same.

Yes. We may decide to adapt to the change that Apple is, for lack of a better word, forcing on consumers. Or I may decide to not buy newer apple phones or go with an android solution for our company so we do not have to wait months for the third party companies to adapt to Apple.

My point was. The headphone jack is not just about the music and it is apparent that that was all Apple was thinking about when they made the switch.
 

dictoresno

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credit card payment methosd that use the headphone jack have noted they will still work with the adapter so theres no loss here.
 

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