1. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    Sorry, didn't want to offend you but your post was long. Very long. And you are right, $60 android phones can do the same thing. But is the experience the same? Not by a mile. Experience isn't the same for some flagship Android devices. Listen, I like Android. But, they are still plagued with some issues that they have always been plagued with for years.
    The experience on a Pixel is comparable to an iPhone, and the point is that the functionality on an iPhone still lags devices that cost 1/15th of the price.

    If people are intent on making excuses for Apple, how are we to expect things to improve. Right now, it feels like a 3 year release cycle.

    The same applies to macOS.

    The last few iOS updates have been fairly lackluster, as have the last couple of device releases.

    Give Apple the feedback so they improve. Tuning up the bias helps no one, not even yourself.

    $8-900 phones deserve nothing but scrutiny.

    All of them.

    And I question if you've used a semi-recent Android phone. You're parroting talking points, and sound like you just exited the way back machine to 2012.

    There is virtually no rational explanation for this BS. Earlier Android phones had issues, and low end devices lack in performance the same way an iPhone 5s lacks compared to a 7. Your hysterical generalizations are simply not factual (and I'm aware other fans will run to defend them - that won't chat anything).
    w00cash1020 and DMP89145 like this.
    11-14-2016 05:44 AM
  2. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    I just got my iPhone 7+ a couple days ago from my iPhone 6+ and I love it I think it's great. Im in a lucky position that my job allows me to have 2 phones. I love them both. I have a Samsung s7 edge and my iPhone, and either of them are fantastic phones.
    The S7e is something I would have gotten, but I can't support the edge screen. I really dislike it.

    The S7 is too tiny, unfortunately. I did compare the camera to my 6s Plus, and was left feeling quite inadequate, Lol.
    11-14-2016 05:47 AM
  3. doctordwaynewilliams's Avatar
    I go by what I experience. Every year I have the same cycle as those who follow me on the forums will attest. Every year I purchase the top Samsung and a Nexus and some international unlocked Android smartphone and a budget Android smartphone. I did the same this year. I had the Pixel. I had a budget Android. I had the Note 7. Without fail, every year I end up going back to the iPhone. I only venture away from iOS because I get curious about what Android has to offer. I leave Android usually because something is broken. Performance isn't there or the experience is poor. That's been my routine for many years now. I have to accept that the iPhone just does what I need it to do.
    libra89, Truman82, Dukins and 3 others like this.
    11-14-2016 05:49 AM
  4. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    I go by what I experience. Every year I have the same cycle as those who follow me on the forums will attest. Every year I purchase the top Samsung and a Nexus and some international unlocked Android smartphone and a budget Android smartphone. I did the same this year. I had the Pixel. I had a budget Android. I had the Note 7. Without fail, every year I end up going back to the iPhone. I only venture away from iOS because I get curious about what Android has to offer. I leave Android usually because something is broken. Performance isn't there or the experience is poor. That's been my routine for many years now. I have to accept that the iPhone just does what I need it to do.
    You had the Pixel and are telling others it's performance rot when you haven't owned it long enough experience such a thing.

    While expecting to be taken seriously?

    I have an HTC One M8.

    No issues.

    How old is this device?

    Again. Talking points.

    Unlike you, I use Android devices for more than a few of weeks. Real experience. If this device wanted to ferment, it would have done it a long time ago.

    You're just an iPhone user who keeps trying to force himself to another device because you keep eating the hype.
    w00cash1020 and DMP89145 like this.
    11-14-2016 05:52 AM
  5. doctordwaynewilliams's Avatar
    You had the Pixel and are telling others it's performance rot when you haven't owned it long enough experience such a thing.

    While expecting to be taken seriously?

    I have an HTC One M8.

    No issues.

    How old is this device?

    Again. Talking points.
    I had to return the Pixel because it failed. I don't have a choice. And if you read my posts about it or Android Central, I really wanted to like it. I thought on paper it would be the perfect phone for me. But it wasn't. I know what it's like to champion the cause of Android. But I have gotten to the point where I need my devices to work for me. I became exhausted from returning devices and trying to "fix" them. I'm glad your device works for you. Beauty of having choices. Doesn't work for though. At least not anymore.
    nikkisharif and eternal2009 like this.
    11-14-2016 05:56 AM
  6. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    iPhones come defective as well.

    Heard about the watercolor cameras some people have on their iPhones, because of a defect? Remember AntennaGate? Many MacBooks have had to be returned because of a defect.

    iPhone users didn't defect en masse to Android (and mac users to Windows) because of some defect. They got the device replaced or repaired and went on about their life. Your issues are personal. It has nothing to do with the device or platform you're using. The only difference is you're conflating it simply because your biases lie with the iPhone/iOS.

    It's okay to prefer the iPhone, it's not okay to exaggerate and bloviate about things that simply aren't the case.

    Not sure what point you're trying to make. This is not exclusive to the Pixel, or the iPhone, or any other device on the market.

    Lemons exist, everywhere.

    In any case, I'm sure that are some on this forum that subscribe to the same line of thought you do. It's why it survives.

    We used to see the same thing, all the time, at Crackberry forums back when they were a "major platform."

    Like I said, criticism is needed for improvement. Users should spend more time giving Apple critical feedback so that their user experience improve; and less time acting like it's flawless and tearing down the competition. Android users do that more than iOS users, and their platform is benefitting from it (see Pixel). Even the Android OEMs have improved, dramatically, on that front.
    Speedygi, w00cash1020 and DMP89145 like this.
    11-14-2016 06:00 AM
  7. doctordwaynewilliams's Avatar
    iPhones come defective as well.

    Heard about the watercolor cameras some people have on their iPhones, because of a defect?

    Not sure what point you're trying to make. This is not exclusive to the Pixel, or the iPhone, or any other device on the market.

    Lemons exist, everywhere.
    Sure they do. And I will admit that I had some bad luck this year with the Note 7. The Moto G4 dying after a week was unexpected. And then the Pixel malfunctioned. All unexpected. And I chose the iPhone 7 by default. It just happens to be the one that worked. The point that I'm making, maybe not so eloquently, is that I have less issues with the iPhone and iOS. Actually I have never given up an iPhone due to issues because I have never had any. But I have had some issues with Android. Not a lot and more in the last 5 months. But there have been issues I have encountered. When consumers exclaim "the iPhone just works" they say that for a reason. I can see that perception very clearly.
    11-14-2016 06:05 AM
  8. DX9's Avatar
    iPhones do "Just Work". For the average user iPhones do quite fine. I don't really know what I can't do on my iPhone compared to my Android phones I've had over the years that is part of "MY"daily routine.

    Sure I can download a ringtone directly to my Android phone as well as a video etc. That's stuff I don't care about though. I don't edit music on my phone and I don't need to analyze video and so on.

    If you have certain tasks you need to do that doesn't work on an iPhone then use a different Platform. Simple as that.
    11-14-2016 07:08 AM
  9. Truman82's Avatar
    Rooted android phones for years. Now after some time I found that IOS is better for me. I guess it boils down to personal preference.
    If I need to do "more complicated things" I'll open my PC.
    blaine07, nikkisharif and Aubbre4 like this.
    11-14-2016 11:15 AM
  10. blaine07's Avatar
    I had always been a rooted android guy. Few years ago made switch to iPhone. Just got sick of always tinkering with android. Got my iPhone and just USE IT!
    Truman82 and nikkisharif like this.
    11-14-2016 11:49 AM
  11. Speedygi's Avatar
    Regardless of how good we feel a product is, there's always a differing opinion and that's fine.
    11-14-2016 06:54 PM
  12. ctt1wbw's Avatar
    It's not about having the most features, period. Therefore, the fact that different OEMs differentiate in feature list doesn't matter. Windows PCs do this as well, and people simply buy whichever PC fits their needs best. The same thing can be said about Apple's Mac (and even iOS - if you could iPad Air 2 vs. Pro 9.7" ) hardware.

    It's about having the most features for you.

    When I compare an iPhone to an Android Phone, these are some disparities that matter - like CODEC and Document Format Support. Lacking FLAC compatibility is an issue for me. I edit music. I like to send "Draft" Edits as FLAC. If I only need to do something minor (insert a bit of silence, make a small deletion), I can do that directly in the FLAC file. On a Mac or iPhone these files are unplayable. This is not the case on Windows and Android. It "just works" on those OSes - all of them.

    Even a $60 Android phone can play FLAC files.

    On the document front, the lack of ODF compatibility on iPhones and Macs is an issue. iWork is pretty terrible at exporting usable Office Documents once you go past very basic things. Something as simple as a 2 column document will see its columns switched around when exporting from Pages to Word. It's not usable. In addition to that, many people do use Office Suits that export to pretty good ODF format (Microsoft Office, WordPerfect Office, LibreOffice, Google Docs, etc. ... even startups and smaller player have implemented this). iWork is the only "major Office Suite" (if it can be called this) that doesn't.

    The ability to easily transfer content from your other devices to your iPhone is another issue that plagues many people. The iPhone's software also makes some interesting choices for you, that ends up doing anything but helping. Baking in Slow Motion "ranges" into High Frame Rate video isn't helpful to anyone who's pulling the video off to load into a Video Analysis program like Dartfish or Kinovea, for example.

    These things are simply not an issue on Android. As much as it pains people here to hear this, Windows and Android are simply more productive platforms than macOS and iOS. There's a big difference between sitting on a forum pedestal and being out in the real world trying to fit these devices and OSes/systems into your workflow.

    The difference between iOS and Android in the real world, beyond the basics is like comparing Windows Home Basic to Windows Professional Edition. Yes, Home Basic can do literally everything the average user needs, but once you try to push the device into different niches and challenging workflows, tons of issues can arise...

    It doesn't help that you can get Android "flagships" for less than half the price of a comparable iPhone, either.
    More productive because you can play a FLAC file? Trust me, I've used computers for about 20 before Windows came out, my first version of Windows was V2.0 and OS X I've used since the day it came out, and Apple hardware since a warm Apple //. OS X has NEVER crashed, ever, not once, ever. I can run more software on a Mac than a Windows computer and I've never been hindered doing anything or ever said Windows was more productive just because I can edit a FLAC file.
    Aubbre4 likes this.
    11-15-2016 01:37 AM
  13. AustinIllini's Avatar
    iPhones do "Just Work". For the average user iPhones do quite fine. I don't really know what I can't do on my iPhone compared to my Android phones I've had over the years that is part of "MY"daily routine.

    Sure I can download a ringtone directly to my Android phone as well as a video etc. That's stuff I don't care about though. I don't edit music on my phone and I don't need to analyze video and so on.

    If you have certain tasks you need to do that doesn't work on an iPhone then use a different Platform. Simple as that.
    I used to feel this way, then I tried to set up my mother-in-law's iPhone. There is just so much more complication then there should be.
    DMP89145 likes this.
    11-15-2016 07:51 AM
  14. Wildo6882's Avatar
    I used to feel this way, then I tried to set up my mother-in-law's iPhone. There is just so much more complication then there should be.
    I completely agree. They're getting a little away from the "it just works" mantra. My mom just switched from a 6 to a 7. She has had nothing but issues over the last two weeks. First, she could not get her iCloud backup to sync properly. It hung for well over a day. On a 50 Mbps connection. I had to help her factory reset and try again, and have her swap SIM cards back into her old iPhone 6 so she could make sure she had a working phone while trying to sync her new 7. Now that her 7 is up and running, she's had multiple issues with pairing and notifications with her Apple Watch. She's spent over 3 hours on the phone with Apple trying to fix it. It still isn't fixed and she's basically been told that's how it just has to be until Apple releases some kind of update. She didn't have these issues with her watch and her 6, which was on iOS 10. I've been able to help her out a bit, but this has still been a pain for her. If she didn't have me this would have been a bigger pain and she would have spent more time on the phone.
    AustinIllini, libra89 and DMP89145 like this.
    11-15-2016 08:04 AM
  15. AustinIllini's Avatar
    I completely agree. They're getting a little away from the "it just works" mantra. My mom just switched from a 6 to a 7. She has had nothing but issues over the last two weeks. First, she could not get her iCloud backup to sync properly. It hung for well over a day. On a 50 Mbps connection. I had to help her factory reset and try again, and have her swap SIM cards back into her old iPhone 6 so she could make sure she had a working phone while trying to sync her new 7. Now that her 7 is up and running, she's had multiple issues with pairing and notifications with her Apple Watch. She's spent over 3 hours on the phone with Apple trying to fix it. It still isn't fixed and she's basically been told that's how it just has to be until Apple releases some kind of update. She didn't have these issues with her watch and her 6, which was on iOS 10. I've been able to help her out a bit, but this has still been a pain for her. If she didn't have me this would have been a bigger pain and she would have spent more time on the phone.
    Right, my mother-in-law can't get her preferred email client to appear, she can never remember her password for her AppleID, and she lives in a remote area so she has a heck of a time trying to get good reception.

    So many things on the iPhone are configurable now and for a company that hates Wizards, Apple sure has a lot of options that just get buried.

    I love my iPhone. It's the right device for me, but it's just not simple enough.

    Also, before I get flamed, I know Android is not better in a lot of cases.
    11-15-2016 08:07 AM
  16. doctordwaynewilliams's Avatar
    I believe at some point iOS had to become more complicated. With more customization and features comes more complications.
    eternal2009 and tlo07 like this.
    11-15-2016 09:09 AM
  17. Speedygi's Avatar
    That said, I think the marriage between customization and simplicity is never better than with current iOS, and the 7 plus is as close to the perfect iPhone than ever before.
    11-16-2016 02:48 PM
  18. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    iPhones do "Just Work". For the average user iPhones do quite fine. I don't really know what I can't do on my iPhone compared to my Android phones I've had over the years that is part of "MY"daily routine.

    Sure I can download a ringtone directly to my Android phone as well as a video etc. That's stuff I don't care about though. I don't edit music on my phone and I don't need to analyze video and so on.

    If you have certain tasks you need to do that doesn't work on an iPhone then use a different Platform. Simple as that.
    I'm not sure you bothered to read anything that was written.

    1. No one disagrees that they work for a lot of people. So does Android and Windows phone. And?

    2. What device I used is based on my requirements, not yours. There are obvious feature and capability differences between the platforms, and whether you use them doesn't affect their usefulness or utility in the general sense. The point is that the lack of this functionality can affect the viability of the device for many users.

    For media playback, Apples platforms have the worse out of the box codec support of the major players, by a very decent clip. That was one example I used.

    3. I already double fist phones. Again, reading is "simply" fundamental...

    To the other person: the lack of FLAC support was just one example. Let's not over exaggerate it and act like it's the one sticking point I have with the platform. Do you want a 5 page post detailing the differences and fallbacks of iOS compared to Android, and macOS compared to Windows? Probably not. That is why the examples are kept to an absolute minimum.
    T48, w00cash1020 and DMP89145 like this.
    11-16-2016 03:21 PM
  19. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    Also, before I get flamed, I know Android is not better in a lot of cases.
    The fact that some would feel the need to disclaimer their post in this was is quite a sad state of affairs.
    11-16-2016 03:26 PM
  20. ianeb's Avatar
    I'm sure at some stage, I will see the point of this thread... quite surprised it hasn't been deleted. Bore-fest
    11-16-2016 03:53 PM
  21. nikkisharif's Avatar
    I'm sure at some stage, I will see the point of this thread... quite surprised it hasn't been deleted. Bore-fest
    11-17-2016 07:05 PM
  22. popkurn611's Avatar
    I believe at some point iOS had to become more complicated. With more customization and features comes more complications.
    Hey, how is your battery life on the 7? What kind of user are you. Now I'm debating if I want the plus or not. I don't want to have to charge my phone during the day
    11-18-2016 11:00 AM
  23. Brian Embry's Avatar
    I was thinking on the Pixel XL bit, I've decided to go with the 7 plus. I'm gonna give IOS a try...

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    11-18-2016 11:39 AM
  24. doctordwaynewilliams's Avatar
    Hey, how is your battery life on the 7? What kind of user are you. Now I'm debating if I want the plus or not. I don't want to have to charge my phone during the day
    My battery life on my iPhone 7 is about the same as it was with the Pixel. It lasts me my entire day. I'm not really a power user. I keep my Bluetooth and wifi on all day. I never turn them off. I have my brightness set to halfway. I stream music and podcasts for about 3 hours a day. The occasional video or game when waiting for something or someone. I make a lot of calls and send a lot of texts. If I take the phone off the charger at 6am I'm usually good until about 8pm.
    nikkisharif likes this.
    11-19-2016 05:02 AM
  25. Ak5hay's Avatar
    Congrats and welcome to the new OS.
    11-19-2016 01:02 PM
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